Brian Cowen Next Up To 'Announce' the Claregalway Bypass

Sponge Bob · 13-09-2008 4:42pm #1

Brian is in Galway next week and is seemingly expected to make an 'announcement' on the Claregalway Bypass . It is in HIS program of government 2007-2012 after all.

It is a condition of the negotiations FF are having with Noel Grealish that they bail Noel out on this issue otherwise he is a dead politician walking .

I understand that they are only really hiring a few engineers on a 1 year contract to finalise the design and draw up the CPO lists .

Brian may also make an annoucement that the N18 Gort Crusheen construction contract has been signed, in fact if he does not make that announcement it bodes ill for that particular scheme and means that the dept of Finance have 'won' their argument ....namely that major road schemes are to be halted forthwith.

Chris_533976 · 13-09-2008 6:18pm

Claregalway Relief Road I'm guessing?

Amtmann · 13-09-2008 6:38pm

We wait with bated breath...

Sponge Bob · 13-09-2008 6:55pm

Inner Relief Road ....even

D.L.R. · 13-09-2008 7:42pm

The M17/18 (and hypothetical spurs) should be doing this job. One big road could bear the whole load. Galway has 70,000 people. One N-S motorway could serve the needs of this area while functioning as a long distance route also. There could be 3 lanes for the 5 mile stretch past Galway.

Too late for that now though.

Sponge Bob · 13-09-2008 8:32pm

D.L.R. wrote: »

The M17/18 (and hypothetical spurs) should be doing this job.

as Padraig Mc Cormack in one of his rare and even more rarely insightful Dáil contributions over 7 years ago said:

Originally when the three proposals were published for the N17 (3 route options SB ) it was intended to go, more or less, along the route of the old road, by-passing Claregalway with a direct run between Tuam and Galway.

Quite suddenly, however, after the three options were published and submissions made, we had a new N17 going from Tuam almost to Athenry and back into Galway.

Under that proposal, people coming from Tuam would be obliged to travel eight to ten miles further on their way to Galway.

Some 60% of the traffic leaving Tuam every morning is bound for Galway but under the proposed development drivers would be obliged to travel almost to Athenry and pay tolls.

The proposed system is a bad one. No toll system should be introduced by the NRA on any road without the matter being debated in this House

And because Athenry became the shortest way to Tuam the Claregalway bypass was urgently required to address the matter, 7 years ago. The toll has been dropped , I think .

Note that traffic from the south is equally put out.

The shortest way from Gort to Galway according to the NRA is also via Athenry but as the traffic bottlenecks in Clarinbridge and Oranmore are nowhere near as bad as Claregalway there is no critical need to build bypasses there .

Galway County Council has planned officially since 2006 to build these inner relief roads in time . I do not consider many of them to be a matter of any great priority although they would be nice

Inner Relief Roads It is proposed to amend Objective 17 to read as follows:

“Construct inner relief roads for various towns e.g. Athenry, Bearna, Clarinbridge, Craughwell, Maigh Cuilinn, Oughterard and Tuam”.

Claregalway is an order of magnitude worse than any other bottleneck in Galway or in Connaught . It is probably the worst bottleneck between Derry and Cork today ...now that Ennis is bypassed.

It needs something now ..just like Enfield and Kinnegad needed something done before the M4 was built .

Cowen should go out there to personally apologise for the mess and to ask for forgiveness ....and then make his announcement . He should leave the creepy Fahey and Grealish behind and be a statesman for once.

Chris_533976 · 13-09-2008 9:01pm

Yes theres no tolls for the M17 to M6 and N/M18 to M6 movements. I've had this confirmed by the NRA... there will only be M6 mainline toll booths at Cappaghtaggle, on the eastern end of the Galway - Ballinasloe scheme.

Edit: Dont expect ANY of these inner relief roads to be built until (if) the Atlantic Corridor is built. Why would a local authority build an inner relief road for a town when theres a (high) chance of a proposed motorway getting dropped because 'the town is bypassed now'.

The Claregalway relief road will NOT be built until the M17 is done. Would you risk it if you were in charge?

marmurr1916 · 13-09-2008 9:08pm

"Cowen should go out there to personally apologise for the mess and to ask for forgiveness ....and then make his announcement . He should leave the creepy Fahey and Grealish behind and be a statesman for once."

A statesman? Like Gorbachov? Like Gandhi? Like Mandela? The head of government of this country should not have to make announcements about piddling little road schemes such as this, however important to the local area.

Talk about parish pump politics. :rolleyes:

What exactly do we expect from the members of our national government? Do we want them to attend to matters of national importance or do we expect them to be deeply involved in purely local matters?

Clearly, like too many people in this country, you expect both, which is part of the reason why this country is run so inefficiently.

Let the Taoiseach run the country. Projects like the Claregalway bypass/relief road should be the remit of local councillors.

Sponge Bob · 13-09-2008 9:11pm

Its important to everyone who goes from Derry to Galway or from Cork to Sligo. Claregalway breaks the entire west coast like a barrier.

One brush with Claregalway and they will go to Malaga next time. Its quicker and less painful

It is statesmanlike to provide certainty where the monkeys in your own party have lied and prevaricated for years . The people of Claregalway are entitled to an apology from the Taoiseach, yes!

marmurr1916 · 13-09-2008 9:24pm

Bull! The M17 on its planned alignment will be much more suitable for a strategic route of national importance.

In case you hadn't noticed we're in the midst of a global credit crunch and potentially facing an economic downturn which could be as serious as the Depression of the 1930s.

I think Brian Cowen has much more important matters to attend to than the traffic in and around Claregalway.

Unfortunately even cabinet ministers and Taoisigh have to pander to the likes of yourself or risk losing votes.

This means they're constantly distracted from work of national importance to deal with local issues which should be sorted out by local councils and local councillors.

And people wonder why there's a lack of strategic planning in this country.

How is that possible when local issues are given nearly as much priority as national issues to satisfy voters like yourself? :mad:

If you want the Claregalway bypass/relief road built get onto your local councillors about it.

The Taoiseach has more important matters to attend to.

Sponge Bob · 14-09-2008 12:25am

marmurr1916 wrote: »

Bull! The M17 on its planned alignment will be much more suitable for a strategic route of national importance.

In case you hadn't noticed we're in the midst of a global credit crunch and potentially facing an economic downturn which could be as serious as the Depression of the 1930s.

I had indeed . I would think that house prices will halve in the next two years and that unemployment will exceed 10% by next year .

This means they're constantly distracted from work of national importance to deal with local issues which should be sorted out by local councils and local councillors.

And therefore I do not believe that the N17 will be built for 10 years ...quite possibly more.

I therefore highly commend the Claregalway bypass as the interim measure that it will have to be for those 10+ years.

The Taoiseach has more important matters to attend to.

Not in Galway he doesn't , certainly not after all the sh1te Frank Fahey has peddled over the years. Brian needs to lead his sheep in Galway !

Baaa Frank.

marmurr1916 · 14-09-2008 12:51am

Well your cynicism and negativity are showing yet again. You've been one of the most consistent critics of delays (or potential delays - some only existing in your imagination) to infrastructure of national importance.

Now you're cheerleading for a project that will reduce the chances of a project of national importance (the Tuam -Athenry motorway) being built within the lifetime of T21.

Make your mind up. Either you want NATIONALLY important projects to go ahead or you'd prefer to see them cut back in favour of a relief road which

a. would now take as long to get through the planning and construction process as the M17

and

b. would need to be at least of HQDC standard to cope with current and future traffic volumes

but

c. would probably be built as a single-carriageway road with surface roundabouts.

Local politicians should be dealing with local roads, not the Taoiseach.

BluntGuy · 14-09-2008 1:24am

Well...

I would like to see the M17 and M18 take priority. They are integral parts of the Atlantic Corridor, so the quicker we can get those built the better.

A tiny relief road, while it may be important, should not take priority over national projects, especially when said relief road, as mentioned above, is likely to be a single carriageway route, littered with hideous at-grade roundabouts which is totally unacceptable for long-distance traffic.

The M17 will be far more beneficial.

trellheim · 14-09-2008 11:06am

a project of national importance

if you live in Tuam I suppose it is. Extend the WRC rebuild to Tuam now !

serfboard · 16-09-2008 12:12pm

Well, in fairness, I presume that marmurr1916 means that the ARC is a project of National importance - I presume you don't object to that? - and that, as Claregalway is causing the biggest bottleneck on that route, that the Tuam-Athenry motorway is the most urgent part of that project.

However, having said that, it looks like Gort-Crusheen will happen first. I can understand this on safety grounds, but I also recall reading about 5 years ago, that the ARC priority was always going to be on that portion south of Galway City. Of course, if other posters' pessimism proves to be correct, then even this may not start until at least 2010 either.

I don't believe the Claregalway Inner Relief Road will ever happen at all.

marmurr1916 · 16-09-2008 2:59pm

Actually I think that Galway-Limerick (Ennis-Shannon)-Cork is more important than Galway-Sligo (Tuam-Knock-Donegal-Letterkenny)-Derry but then again I'm a sucker for dem demographics!

Population figures alone dictate that the Cork-Limerick-Galway section of the Atlantic Corridor will be given priority over the Galway-Sligo-Derry section.

My objection to prioritising the Claregalway relief road over the Tuam-Athenry link is that it will take just as long to get through the planning and construction process as the M17, and will probably be built as a single-carriageway road with at-grade roundabouts. As such it will be totally inadequate for current traffic volumes, let alone future ones.

The first priority should be the road of national importance followed by the local relief road.

galwayrush · 17-09-2008 8:03pm

The new M17 would have catered for both the national intrest and as a Claregalway by-pass if those idiots in the NRA didn't re-route it from the ideal potential routes that Galway co. council had originally recommended. :mad:

Hotblack Desiato · 18-09-2008 12:24am

marmurr1916 wrote: »

I think Brian Cowen has much more important matters to attend to than the traffic in and around Claregalway.

Unfortunately even cabinet ministers and Taoisigh have to pander to the likes of yourself or risk losing votes.

This means they're constantly distracted from work of national importance to deal with local issues which should be sorted out by local councils and local councillors.

And people wonder why there's a lack of strategic planning in this country.

How is that possible when local issues are given nearly as much priority as national issues to satisfy voters like yourself? :mad:

If you want the Claregalway bypass/relief road built get onto your local councillors about it.

The Taoiseach has more important matters to attend to.

How can councillors do anything when they have next to no funding? Power is nothing without the resources to implement decisions, but the Irish electorate have continually demonstrated their opposition to any form of local taxation - while also complaining about the powerlessness of local authorities. Duh.

Now if we implemented a property tax to include principal private residences, we could do stuff like this in a trice. Political suicide, but hey, we can dream.

Either we fund local authorities properly (i.e. not grants from central government, but income they control) or else STFU about their ability to do anything.

It doesn't help in this regard that councillors have not exactly covered themselves in glory planning-wise, and brown-envelope-wise, but unless and until these guys have meaningful powers beyond planning, we will continue to elect any old muppet while continuing to deny their colleagues possesed of a brain any real power.

Nostradamus · 18-09-2008 2:05pm

They do not need it with the vital rail corridor between Sligo and Limerick which West on Track promised.

serfboard · 18-09-2008 2:11pm

ninja900 wrote: »

Either we fund local authorities properly (i.e. not grants from central government, but income they control) or else STFU about their ability to do anything.

It doesn't help in this regard that councillors have not exactly covered themselves in glory planning-wise, and brown-envelope-wise, but unless and until these guys have meaningful powers beyond planning, we will continue to elect any old muppet while continuing to deny their colleagues possesed of a brain any real power.

Both of these points reflect my own opinion, too. I remember working in New York years ago and, out of your income, you had city tax, state tax and federal tax all deducted from your wages. I often wondered whether this could be brought in here i.e. council tax and national tax.

OTOH, you'd sometimes be glad that councillors don't have more power. Some of the things that they do are simply mind-boggling - except of course if you were listening to Frank Dunlop's evidence to the tribunal, which would make you realise why certain decisions were made.

I don't however agree that giving councils more resources/power will make us less likely to continue electing the same gob****es we have now. If you want to look at behaviour that typifies this, to me, the fact that Michael Lowry topped the poll in Tipperary after he had been proven to have received "inappropriate" payments from Dunnes Stores just shows who the gob****es really are - us.

Cool Mo D · 18-09-2008 7:01pm

I also strongly agree with the idea of a local tax to fund councils, to inject accountability into local government. As it stands, councillors can, and do, piss away public money on rubbish without a second thought, because no matter how much they waste, local people will never be directly responsible for coughing up money to cover it, and the council just have to put the begging bowl out to central government.

It might not be an election winner for most people, but a party that promises to bring back domestic rates, give the local authorities power to set them, and have them as the sole source of funding for local authorities will get my vote. Local tax for local people!

marmurr1916 · 18-09-2008 7:09pm

Totally agree! As I said on another thread:

"Originally Posted by marmurr1916
One-off rural housing is a blight on the landscape but it's not solely the fault of the politicians.

Irish people built these houses and the planning system which facilitated them was a reflection of the peoples wishes.

Don't blame successive governments for acceding to peoples wishes.

The individuals who built or bought one-off rural housing without demonstrating a need (working/living in the area) for these houses are as much to blame as politicians, especially local politicians.

Many times in the past, people were refused planning permission for one-off rural houses. They appealed to their local councillors for help. There used to be a mechanism (a Section 4 motion) whereby councillors could vote to overturn the decision of the planning officials and grant permission for these houses.

This was done by councillors despite the fact that the cost of servicing these houses is much higher than if they were built in towns or villages.

Why don't the councillors care about the extra costs? Because we don't have any system of local taxation for non-commercial property in Ireland and therefore councillors don't worry about saving taxpayers' money since they won't gain any votes from doing so. In fact the votes are in getting the planning permission.

If we had a system of local taxation (not a council tax like in the UK, but maybe a local income tax) then those responsible (local councillors) for spending that money would be much more careful as they'd lose votes if taxes had to be raised because of their foolish planning decisions.

Let's not forget that Irish people voted for the government that abolished local residential taxation back in 1977. No political party since has made any credible or serious proposal for the re-introduction of some form of local taxation. Why? Because they know the voters wouldn't wear it.

Whose fault is that?"

The problem is nobody's going to vote for a party that proposes the re-introduction of local rates. Look at the hassle over bin-charges!

galwayrush · 18-09-2008 10:31pm

Nostradamus wrote: »

They do not need it with the vital rail corridor between Sligo and Limerick which West on Track promised.

We most definitely do.

Lennoxschips · 19-09-2008 6:46pm

i can list many things that are more important than the arc

Hotblack Desiato · 25-09-2008 11:34pm

serfboard wrote: »

I don't however agree that giving councils more resources/power will make us less likely to continue electing the same gob****es we have now.

At the moment a vote in a local election has very little impact on your pocket, or anything else. If making a bad choice (or just not bothering to vote) hits voters in the pocket they will pay more attention next election time.

If you want to look at behaviour that typifies this, to me, the fact that Michael Lowry topped the poll in Tipperary after he had been proven to have received "inappropriate" payments from Dunnes Stores just shows who the gob****es really are - us.

But voting for Lowry is a consequence-free protest vote (against 'those bastards in Dublin' 'shure how could one of our own be in the wrong' etc. etc. :rolleyes: ) Lowry is highly unlikely to form a part of government, even an FG-led one. Didn't Enda Kenny once say he would never do a deal with Lowry even if he held the balance of power? So he'll never be in the position to put up Tipperary voters' taxes, or anyone else's.

serfboard · 26-09-2008 1:02pm

ninja900 wrote: »

At the moment a vote in a local election has very little impact on your pocket, or anything else. If making a bad choice (or just not bothering to vote) hits voters in the pocket they will pay more attention next election time.

One would like to think that this would be the case, but I doubt it.

ninja900 wrote: »

But voting for Lowry is a consequence-free protest vote ... Lowry is highly unlikely to form a part of government, even an FG-led one... So he'll never be in the position to put up Tipperary voters' taxes, or anyone else's.

Lowry was just an example, and people who voted for him in Tipperary didn't know when they were voting for him that he was unlikely to be part of a government. They were probably hoping that he would be part of a government!

Another example is Beverly Flynn in Mayo. Again, the voters didn't give a sh1t that she helped people evade taxes that the rest of us have to pay. Now, if that doesn't hit us in the pocket ... :rolleyes:

And again, Mayo people who voted for her were surely aware (correctly) that one day she would be brought back into the fold, and could even be a Minister (junior?/senior?) some day.

Brian Cowen Next Up To 'Announce' the Claregalway Bypass

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