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self builders corner

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  • 10-09-2008 1:03am
    #1
    Uncle Chenzo
    Registered Users Posts: 67 ✭✭


    Hi Peasant, and all others.

    Just in regards to your suggestions thread - i'm in the market for a van conversion project. Having trawled through this excellent forum, i've picked up a hell of a lot of information and thanks to all.

    The thing is, is that i'm a complete newbie, on all fronts. Camper, fit outs, electrical, carpentry - i mean the works. But this doesn't phase me at all.

    I've had a good look around sites like
    smbcc,
    motorhomefacts
    campervanlife
    campsitereview
    forcesofnature
    caravanbreakers
    amdro
    buyers guides to 3.5 tonners!

    and these are just some, even checked on amazon for books regarding self builds, but nothing quite hit the nail on the head.

    From looking at the amount of hits van conversions get on the forum, it can be seen that this is a very, very popular area.

    (from what i can gather, the best thing to do is buy a high top, 3,000kg van, (if you're planning on driving on your regular Cat. B drivers license) in the uk(value, conversion of sterling at the mo, they look after their vehicles there, and if you're in the market i can recommend this crowd, especially coming up to chrimbo - when no-one will be interested in shelling out cash for a van when they have all their shopping to contend with), vrt it here for €50, do the self build and get it re registered as a camper, providing all your bits and bobs, including yourself and whomever, does'nt go over 500kg - and your laughing. no, please let me know if i've got this ar5e ways?)

    sami's self build was the closest
    thing that i was looking for. With regards to a link to the photo updates and all, which is really cool and fair play to him for going to the bother.

    But maybe somewhere where we could learn about the do's and don'ts of installing a shower or jacks, basically a dummys guide. Am i asking too much, or am i being a complete tight ar5e :o.

    Anyway, looking for an area where, from scratch, a guide to converting a van in to a basic camper, i'm not looking for bells and whistles, just a camper that i can feck off in and get out of the hum drum.

    And lastly, Peasant, fair play to you on moderating on an excellent site - its a pleasure to trawl.

    Your Uncle,

    Chenzo


«13

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    #2
    peasant
    Registered Users Posts: 17,819 ✭✭✭✭peasant


    created a new thread and stickied it

    previous conversion thread here: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055228038&highlight=sprinter


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    #3
    Uncle Chenzo
    Registered Users Posts: 67 ✭✭Uncle Chenzo


    Thanks for that Peasant,

    Ok, I suppose first of all is the Van!

    Am i right in suggesting, in my previous post, that if one wants the biggest van (just thinking of the comfort factor), would be to get a LWB ( long wheel base) van, with a high top (considering that from behind the drivers seat - floor to ceiling, has to be 1.8 metres minimum, in height).

    And if one is to get the van from the uk, VRT (vehicle registration tax) is €50.

    So, with regards to the weight factor, a typical Irish drivers license is Cat. B, meaning that your vehicle must weigh, laden, up to 3,500kg and not over.

    Then, providing you have a working sink, two ringed cooker, a bed all fixed in place - you have your camper.

    So advice please, i'm thinking of trying to get a Ford Transit 300 (3,000kg unladen, so presuming once the fit out is made, it should be well under the 3,500kg mark? What does a basic fit out weigh?).

    Now these in the UK can be rust buckets, but the 01 onwards, (face lift model) don't seem to be as bad. Plenty of spare parts, millions of these vans on the road. Does anyone have any suggestions?

    I've heard very few good things about Renault master, Peugeots?

    So anyone out there with advice, please don't hesitate in sharing, i'm going to try to PM some of the previous contributors from this forum who posted earlier in the year regarding other bits and pieces.

    Chenzo.


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    #4
    peasant
    Registered Users Posts: 17,819 ✭✭✭✭peasant


    My tip for the base vehicle would be IVECO (the "Daily"). Contrary to the the Sprinters, Lt's and Transits of this world, the Daily is not a pumped up car van, but a downsized truck. Build quality is very good, as are the engines. Everything is beefy and solid plus they are a nice size for maximum room.
    some come with twin rear wheels, which is great for driving stability and not getting stuck too easily.

    They also are surprisingly cheap second hand (for whatever inexplicable reason)

    CB4_1123528_1_531755.jpg
    http://www.carzone.ie/used-cars/Iveco/Daily/35C11-High/1123528/


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    #5
    loobylou
    Registered Users Posts: 1,418 ✭✭✭loobylou


    [Q

    So advice please, i'm thinking of trying to get a Ford Transit 300 (3,000kg unladen, so presuming once the fit out is made, it should be well under the 3,500kg mark? What does a basic fit out weigh?).

    /QUOTE]

    Bear in mind that the 3500kg laden weight limit will include you, your passengers, say 150 litres of water (150 kgs) plus all equipment,clothing,fuel etc you will need to bring. These alone will easily make up the 500kg difference between the 3000kg VRT exempt weight and the 3500kg limit on a class B driving license.
    Being overweight will probably not be an issue with the guards in Ireland but certainly will be on the continent. (In France many of the toll stations weigh each vehicle as they pass through).
    What you'll need to do is to build the unit so it's unladen weight is just over 3000kg, allowing you a payload then of 500kg.
    Alternatively sit a test and get a C license.
    Ian


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    #6
    Uncle Chenzo
    Registered Users Posts: 67 ✭✭Uncle Chenzo


    Thanks Looby,

    So therefore, i would be looking to get a van with a GVW (Gross Vehicle Weight) of around 2,600kgs or 2,800kgs?

    Anyone been in this situation before?

    Ta.


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    #7
    aerosol
    Registered Users Posts: 471 ✭✭aerosol


    Hi U Chenzo, Can't help on the selfbuild bit but on the weight issue I know that if I were ever to do a conversion I would certainly be trying to get the max payload I could. Be no point Imo in going to the effort of converting but limiting yourself to a tiny payload.

    I would be sitting the test for the higher licence and looking for 800kgs or so.Me the missus and 2 toddlers weigh in at 200kgs alone,same again for full tank of deisel and water,the weight soon adds up.


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    #8
    cir287
    Registered Users Posts: 53 ✭✭cir287


    Hi there,
    you might do well to check the actual weight of the van you are thinking of buying, I dont know much about transits but does 300 mean max laden or unladen weight ? it'll be a big van to be 3000kg unladen. A std LWB high roof Sprinter weighs a little over 2,000kg, I would suspect most similar vans are similar weight.
    you also need to bear in mind that a camper of over 3000kg is charged at €50 vrt, under 3000kg is 13.5% vrt if you choose to declare as a camper regardless of importation or otherwise. It is possible to build a camper to weigh in at over 3000kg but legally run under the 3500kg limit but you need to be a little cute.


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    #9
    Uncle Chenzo
    Registered Users Posts: 67 ✭✭Uncle Chenzo


    Thanks lads,

    I've decided to bite the bullet.

    I'm going for the "C" licence. Got the CD with the questions for the theory test.

    Can't get "mark one answer" out of my head:o

    Onwards and upwards.

    Hey Circa, the 300 is unladen, therefore i'd easily add 500kg with fuel, passengers etc. Really looking for comfort in a camper and that means space.

    chenzo


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    #10
    cir287
    Registered Users Posts: 53 ✭✭cir287


    Hi Chenzo,
    I wont argue and maybe I am missing something here but a transit 300, LWB high roof should weigh in or around 2tonnes, the 300 refers to its GVW (gross vehicle weight) which is 3tonnes. A transit 350 has a GVW of 3.5 tonnes which is the heaviest you can drive on a std car licence.
    Maybe just do a double check, it may save a whole load of hassle.

    Regards
    Cir


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    #11
    peasant
    Registered Users Posts: 17,819 ✭✭✭✭peasant


    just found an interesting layout for MWB Sprinters and I thought I'd share the pics

    473f_27.JPG
    48ab_27.JPG
    4b46_27.JPG
    5279_27.JPG

    Now, the coffin like bunks may not be to everybodies taste ...but they do create a good amount of usable space

    http://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/showDetails.html?id=77185789&__lp=21&scopeId=MH&sortOption.sortBy=price.consumerGrossEuro&sortOption.sortOrder=ASCENDING&makeModelVariant1.searchInFreetext=false&makeModelVariant2.searchInFreetext=false&makeModelVariant3.searchInFreetext=false&minPowerAsArray=66&minPowerAsArray=KW&vehicleCategory=Motorhome&segment=Motorhome&minPrice=9000&maxPrice=20001&siteId=GERMANY&negativeFeatures=EXPORT&daysAfterCreation=7&damageUnrepaired=NO_DAMAGE_UNREPAIRED&customerIdsAsString=&lang=en&pageNumber=16


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    #12
    Uncle Chenzo
    Registered Users Posts: 67 ✭✭Uncle Chenzo


    Hi Peasant,

    Pretty neat job. Don't fancy being in the top bunk!!

    1997 sprinter for €18,800 !! Is that a typical price for one of these, seems a little steep, no?

    Looks to me that there is money to be made here.

    On a side bar -

    (Got my "C" theory test tomorrow afternoon. fingers crossed.

    For anyone who's interested, Fas do a rigid course - what it is really is 9 hours practical through the alexandra school of driving in the North Strand, Dublin 3.Total cost €425,

    personally i'm down wicklow way, and heading to a guy in gorey. €80 for 1.5 hours lesson. (away from the serious city driving))

    Chenzo


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    #13
    Uncle Chenzo
    Registered Users Posts: 67 ✭✭Uncle Chenzo


    Sorry Peasant,

    Just had a good look at it, its in really great nick, and if not over 3,000kg - 13.5% VRT on the open market selling price - yikes.

    Really nice tho.

    Thanks for sharing the layout - very nice shower, toilet, sink combo - very neat.


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    #14
    samih
    Registered Users Posts: 2,795 ✭✭✭samih


    Just want to point out that the red Sprinter in pictures has an extra high (non standard) roof. The standard high roof finishes where you see a line about 1/3 up the "gutter".

    I wish I would have all that height to play with :-(

    A '02 311 LWB 311 CDI has an empty weight of about 2200 kg when stripped bare (no ply, no partitioning wall) and with a full tank of diesel. This means you'll need extra 800 kg to build it above 3 tons. My conversion is still going on, and will go on for a fair bit longer, and I'm aiming for the three ton mark.


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    #15
    Uncle Chenzo
    Registered Users Posts: 67 ✭✭Uncle Chenzo


    Hey Samih,

    Thanks for the info.

    Any chance you could give a run down of what you did to your van.

    Whats it going to have?

    The first things to do etc...

    Any photos??


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    #16
    merc camper
    Registered Users Posts: 48 ✭merc camper


    I have just finished my camper conversion, when I brought it to the tax office they just had a quick luck at it and taxed it. They never asked what weight it was, althought it does look like it is over 3 tonne.


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    #17
    samih
    Registered Users Posts: 2,795 ✭✭✭samih


    MercCamper, is that how it works, so no VRO needed for a van already registered in Ireland?

    Uncle Chenzo, the first step to do would be to make sure all the rusty bits inside the van are treated. My van had some rust at the edges of floor where ply had rubbed paint away, and I would imagine that this would eventually lead for the floor panel separating from the walls. Fixing something like that would be a major pain later so doing this well makes sense.

    I used drill wire brush followed by löeve rust (spelling?) to treat the areas affected. Then just liberal coating of Waxoyl to furthermore keep the tinworm at bay.

    I next constucted the floor and would do so again if I had to start fresh. It's a bit of a pain to watch out for scrapes and other damage to the floor during construction, but on the other hand having a nice even surface to build on has been great.

    Then just add windows and vents (ceiling, fridge, kitchen extractor), insulate and cover walls. I didn't add any extra batons as Sprinter has plenty of box sections to fix things to. The only problem area is the ceiling at the front of the load area (= just behind cab) where there is a longish gap. Ceiling sags a bit there and could really use an extra fixing point. I'll probably have fix that at some stage.

    Apart from that think about the layout long and hard. Moving windows and vents would not be easy when the holes are already cut.


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    #18
    merc camper
    Registered Users Posts: 48 ✭merc camper


    I am not sure about it. I paid no tax or neither did another perso with a large van, however a VW transporter might be different i know of 1 person who paid 13% of value who had a fixed roof aboue 6ft and another person with a poptop roof paid 30% because it was under 6ft head room.
    When I was in the tax office I asked about the poptop roof vans and was told that there was no problem with roof height. The person told me that it depends on who u get to inspect the van.
    To summarise if u dont like what the motor tax office is telling u bring it to a different one and see what they say, the whole thing is a grey area.


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    #19
    Uncle Chenzo
    Registered Users Posts: 67 ✭✭Uncle Chenzo


    Thanks Samih,

    Have you put in any toilet/shower?

    What was the story with the electrical end of things. Did you put in a second battery?

    Fridge, cooker - Is it pretty straight forward?

    Chenzo


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    #20
    samih
    Registered Users Posts: 2,795 ✭✭✭samih


    Hi again,

    We have a portaloo, so no fixed toilet. With the layout we chose it would have been a major pain to fit a cassette loo as no rear access was possible and the van cross members or wheel arch would have been on the way. We have no shower either. It would be nice to have a shower for sure but a definitive drawback is condensation especially during cold weather, and IMO not worth the hassle. Others will disagree, and that's the great thing about self build. You decide what's important. Space would have been a major problem in our case too as there is a fixed table towards the front of living area.

    I have a leisure battery under passenger seat. The current one is a (temporary) portable battery pack from Lidl, which is ok with the all LED lightning we have, but there is space for a pair of reasonably sized batteries there. We have a basic split charge relay setup triggered from alternator warning lamp to charge the battery.

    The sbmcc.co.uk have good guidelines for electrical setups in general. Well worth reading.

    Fridge is pretty much plug and play, just need cooling vents and exhaust outside. It and cooker share a gas supply, unless you go for a compressor model which does not need gas and hence no exhaust either. 12 volts supply for the fridge is triggered by the alternator so that leisure battery's not flattened by an accident.

    There is also an AC supply that drives battery charger, sockets and fridge when 230 volts is available.


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    #21
    niceirishfella
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,538 ✭✭✭niceirishfella


    Hi all,

    Well, I've alway fancied a camper - hit the road, and enjoy whereever you land.......and the kids are getting to a great age now for them to have memorable trips with me and their mam so i was going to splash out and get a nice one, coachbuilt and pay maybe 20k + ish.

    But then , the recession has hit us all - so, i wonder, if i were to buy a big panel van like an Iveco Highroof for dent money, could i get an decent fit out for 4k maybe?
    Toilet, shower, kitchen-ette, fixed bed in the rear (gotta bed a fixed bed, and 2 bunks for the kids?
    Could i fixed bunk goes over head the cab in one of these? And the other bunk/bed made up from the seatsa in the dining area?

    Help/thoughts/plans/inspiration/advise please?
    heres the kinda van i'd like -
    http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/IVECO-DAILY-35S12-LWB-High-Roof-2006_W0QQitemZ220294055642QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item220294055642&_trkparms=72%3A1301%7C39%3A1%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C240%3A1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

    Bought, fitted out and all for €11k? Am i mad? Could it be done?

    Rgds,
    NIF


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    #22
    cir287
    Registered Users Posts: 53 ✭✭cir287


    its do-able alright but you will need to be handy, you will need to shop around and you will need to put a lot of time into it yourself (and I mean a lot !)
    We are in the process of converting a sprinter which is a similar size to the iveco you are talking about, we have quite a big store in the back which steals space from the living accommodation but it still all works space wise.
    my advice is go for it if you are happy that you can handle all the practical stuff (dont worry, you wont have to reinvent the wheel, all info you need is on the web) and have the time, expect to be a couple of nights a week and some weekend days for a few months at least.


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    #23
    niceirishfella
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,538 ✭✭✭niceirishfella


    Ok, for a High roof LWB Iveco Daily, I've got 15 ft length, 6 foot width and 7 foot in Height in the payload area......I want to do a fixed double bed in the back, and 2 bunks - coould one bunk go over the cab do ya think??, a shower/toilet unit,a kitchen area (sink/fridge etc), heater etc etc -
    Don't really need a big garage area.....can pop a roof box on top if need be as i have one already.
    Suggestions please?


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    #24
    Uncle Chenzo
    Registered Users Posts: 67 ✭✭Uncle Chenzo


    Howaya NiceIrishFella,

    Been reading your input on the solid fuel stoves, in that neighbourhood of thinking meself, Nice work,

    Would you really put a roof top on top of a high top van??

    for vans check out the bca site

    I would suggest trying to go for something that has windows in it already, a crew cab like this, just saves the hassle.

    Now, i don't know my ar5e from me elbow on this front as i'm a total newbie, but i'm waiting for around chrimbo to make my move on a van. i've sat the C license and got 40/40:D, so am taking the lessons fairly shortly as i don't want to be restricted re: weight of van etc...


    Be good (and stay warm)


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    #25
    samih
    Registered Users Posts: 2,795 ✭✭✭samih


    niceirishfella wrote: »
    coould one bunk go over the cab do ya think??

    In high Sprinter you could put a child's bed above the cab. The width at the top is only about 150 cm/5 ft. It would also need to drop down when in use.


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    #26
    eyebrows63
    Registered Users Posts: 196 ✭✭eyebrows63


    Uncle Chenzo wrote: »
    Howaya NiceIrishFella,

    Been reading your input on the solid fuel stoves, in that neighbourhood of thinking meself, Nice work,

    Would you really put a roof top on top of a high top van??

    for vans check out the bca site

    I would suggest trying to go for something that has windows in it already, a crew cab like this, just saves the hassle.

    Now, i don't know my ar5e from me elbow on this front as i'm a total newbie, but i'm waiting for around chrimbo to make my move on a van. sat the C licensei've and got 40/40:D, so am taking the lessons fairly shortly as i don't want to be restricted re: weight of van etc...


    Be good (and stay warm)
    there,s a new law coming in that you have to do 7 hours training a year to retain your license. even though you have a 10 year license you still have to do it.you ll be issued with a cpc card and cannot drive without it.


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    #27
    niceirishfella
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,538 ✭✭✭niceirishfella


    Whats a CPC card - compentancy card or the like?


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    #28
    Uncle Chenzo
    Registered Users Posts: 67 ✭✭Uncle Chenzo


    Is this for "C" License or "B" License or both?


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    #29
    merc camper
    Registered Users Posts: 48 ✭merc camper


    Just to let anybody know when u go to get insurance they will ask who has done the electrics. Thay may require an electrician to sign off. Not sure as they were happy wiyh my qualifications.


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    #30
    eyebrows63
    Registered Users Posts: 196 ✭✭eyebrows63


    Uncle Chenzo wrote: »
    Is this for "C" License or "B" License or both?
    its just for trucks & bus C, D & E and only if you drive profesionaly. the full details are on the rsa website.


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    #31
    niceirishfella
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,538 ✭✭✭niceirishfella


    My self build plan is hatching!

    anyone know where i could buy a self contained shower cubicle or unit for a self build van conversion?

    Thanks!


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