"Pay Jobless Migrants to leave Ireland" - Leo Varadkar

Heisenberg. · 05-09-2008 11:58am #1

This post has been deleted.

gandalf · 05-09-2008 12:24pm

Jaysus talk about getting desparate, no wonder the shower that are in government weren't voted out with hair brained ideas like this from the opposition.

Until one of the politicial parties develops a backbone and tackles the public service in this country properly we are bunched. Blaming "Johnny Foreigner" is lazy at best and at worst its pathetic.

FF & FG are both centre parties they should do the country a favour and drop the civil war politics rubbish and merge.

The_Minister · 05-09-2008 12:25pm

Firstly, most countries in Europe have somethin similar to this, so this isn't as rabidly racist as it may seem at first. So everyone calm down.
However, in other countries AFAIR it only applies to non-EU nationals, and is only applied to people on the dole.

Varadkar is suggesting paying EU nationals to leave.

This is rediculous because, since free-travel exists, once people in the other countries realise that they can go to Ireland, and get paid to return, they will, well....you get it.

LostinBlanch · 05-09-2008 12:40pm

Yeah, you're right Minister. He hasn't quite thought this through has he?

serfboard · 05-09-2008 12:47pm

A daft idea which will hopefully go nowhere.

ejmaztec · 05-09-2008 12:59pm

I had a similar idea in England during the reign of Maggie Thatcher and would have been prepared to accept £100K to return to my Irish roots, with the same amount being payable to anyone else wishing to escape her influence. Unfortunately nothing was forthcoming, but I came here anyway. I never imagined that anyone else in their right mind would have the same kind of idea.

simu · 05-09-2008 1:14pm

Ha, would he grant it to unemployed Irish people who fancy emigrating too?

Fratton Fred · 05-09-2008 1:53pm

Non-Irish nationals is a very broad term.

I presume that would include everyone that is British so could it possibly include people from the north (and i don't mean Denegal!)?

Imagine paying people from the north to move back, that would be almost comical.

Dirk Gently · 05-09-2008 2:32pm

I'd happily hand in my notice, give my job to an unemployed Irish person and take him up on the offer if he extended it to us paddys.

hair brained FG ideas FTW! :pac:

St_Crispin · 06-09-2008 1:35am

simu wrote: »

Ha, would he grant it to unemployed Irish people who fancy emigrating too?

I'd sign up for that.

Belfast · 06-09-2008 11:48am

maybe they should start with Leo Varadkar

Zambia · 06-09-2008 11:50am

St_Crispin wrote: »

I'd sign up for that.

I dont think the choice would be great

gaf1983 · 06-09-2008 3:54pm

Here's the BBC report he watched which gave him the idea:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7593773.stm

That report says that the Spanish scheme applies to nationals of 19 countries, presumably non-EU ones.

Here's Varadkar's statement on the matter on his website:

http://www.leovaradkar.ie/?p=151#more-151

He says:

Currently, dole payments to foreign nationals cost us €400 million per annum.

That's all well and good, however it's a pretty useless piece of information because he doesn't state how much it costs to pay the dole of non-EU nationals, as these would be the only people who would be able to avail of the scheme.

I recall a similar scheme being talked about in France in May 2007.

Breezer · 07-09-2008 1:50am

Obviously the scheme couldn't apply to EU citizens, and yes, I do think it would have been more useful for Varadkar to give us a figure relating to the amount non-EU citizens claiming the dole cost the exchequer. However, I wouldn't be dismissing the idea out of hand if it were investigated and shown that it could save the country money.

The 'xenophobic' response from Fianna Fáil is predictable. As a party, FF are far too concerned with appearing to be politically correct and not doing anything that might be construed by hard-line left wingers and do-gooders oblivious to reality to be racist, ageist or some-other-wordist. This is the same party that let Michael McDowell effectively run the country for quite some time, not to mention the tribunals.

As for harebrained ideas, the current Government has come up with (and often implemented), some far more harebrained schemes than this one. In no particular order: Luas lines that don't intersect, e-voting, overdependence on the construction sector, attempting to give learner drivers one weekend to pass their driving test or get off the road, and lets not forget Mary White's proposal a while back regarding easier driving tests for elderly people who find the current test too difficult.

While Varadkar should have looked into this more, thought it through more, and given more relevant figures, we need to think outside the box a bit if we're going to get the country back into shape. Unfortunately Brian Cowen has never been known for thinking outside the box.

cabinteelytom · 07-09-2008 9:29am

Do you pay them to leave? NO. You stop paying them dole!
If you don't have a job, and you don't have independant means, you are excess to the requirements of our economy. If you go cooperatively (and save us money) you get paid a bounty (in your country of origin). If you have paid us income tax, it should be refunded to you (less any legal aid costs you've run up); and that's a debt cleared.

ninty9er · 07-09-2008 5:32pm

Mary Hanafin's already attempted to curb payments to EU citizens, though ones that are NOT here.

This has been publicly announced and been highly bitched about, though nobody has yet seen her motives.

Electronic dole payments allow EU-citizens to feck off home to where-ever and claim Irish dole giving a high standard of living in poorer eastern bloc countires.

However by requiring them to sign on every week rather than less frequently, they can no longer claim if they are not here.

Breezer · 08-09-2008 2:00am

ninty9er wrote: »

Mary Hanafin's already attempted to curb payments to EU citizens, though ones that are NOT here.

This has been publicly announced and been highly bitched about, though nobody has yet seen her motives.

Electronic dole payments allow EU-citizens to feck off home to where-ever and claim Irish dole giving a high standard of living in poorer eastern bloc countires.

However by requiring them to sign on every week rather than less frequently, they can no longer claim if they are not here.

True, and fair play to her, it was necessary. Much as I disagree with her choice of party, I generally respect Hanafin. Varadkar's idea (admittedly a more thought-out form of it) could also help matters, provided the figures back it up of course.

Cabinteelytom, you can't simply stop paying dole to immigrants. If people are here legitimately then they have every right to claim the dole. Forcing people to up and leave because they cannot get a job is not on. What we do need is a rigourously enforced requirement to be actively seeking work, regardless of nationality. A fixed-term dole (again regardless of nationality) is also an idea which could be examined, but I definitely wouldn't be in favour of it.

However, paying immigrants who wish to return home a lump sum in order to facilitate them in doing so alleviates a burden on our economy and is similar to a redundancy payment from a job. Nothing outlandish or racist there.

strassenwolf · 08-09-2008 2:22am

What we do need is a rigourously enforced requirement to be actively seeking work, regardless of nationality.

Even for the travelling community?

shock, horror!

cabinteelytom · 08-09-2008 7:40am

In effect indefinite dole is saying to the internationally travelled worker,'Ignore economic opportunities elsewhere. Here's a retainer to stick around here in case we need you in the future' [and if we don't you'll end up living in the culture as our long term unemployed].
The management of a state's labour market is an essential part of maximising the benefits of globalisation; when to outsource, what skills to bring in, what skills to grow at home, when to pay workers to be available.
Poland has one of the largest ex-pat communities within the EU. Poland has concluded a guest worker agreement with the government of India, and has a scheme to grant 3 month work permits (yes that's all) to half a million ukraininans and Russians per year (www2.pravda.com.va/en/news/2007/7/19/8371.htm).
Now, that's working the system. Learn from them!

cabinteelytom · 08-09-2008 8:34am

Why 'working the system'? Because the Indian guest workers and the temporary Ukrainian workers go home when their work is finished. They do not add to the burden of unemployment benefit upon the Polish state. They do not compete with Polish repatriates for jobs or bump Poland's school-leavers into joblessness and an expectation of 'I don't work'.

nhughes100 · 08-09-2008 12:31pm

Leo is quickly turning into the FG version of Conor Lenihan.

gaf1983 · 08-09-2008 1:45pm

Breezer wrote: »

Obviously the scheme couldn't apply to EU citizens, and yes, I do think it would have been more useful for Varadkar to give us a figure relating to the amount non-EU citizens claiming the dole cost the exchequer. However, I wouldn't be dismissing the idea out of hand if it were investigated and shown that it could save the country money.

I emailed Leo yesterday on that point and here is his response:

It might be possible to extend it to other EU nationals if they agreed to waive their ‘habitual residency’ rights meaning if they returned they would not be eligible for welfare payments for at least two years. In Spain, the lump-sum is paid in to tranches – on leaving and then at a later date.

With regard to the dole payments, there are about 40,000 foreign national but only 8,000 of these would be non-EEA citizens. However, the proportion on non-EEA nationals receiving other benefits would be much higher (eg supplementary welfare allowence, rent supplement, HSE payments etc)

the_syco · 08-09-2008 10:04pm

How long would the foreigner have to be here before they can claim as much as the national dole-4-lifers?

Traumadoc · 09-09-2008 12:08am

I returned from Australia after 6 years I was allowed to take my superannuation with me I would have loved to have been able to collect some of the tax I paid also.

regi · 09-09-2008 8:03am

If the time comes, I'd love to be paid off to leave the country :-)

ShooterSF · 09-09-2008 6:20pm

I don't know the law here but if they're a non-E.U national why can't the government strip them of their visa or atleast start issuing smaller visas and not renewing them if someone cant keep a job...

sovtek · 11-09-2008 6:22pm

cabinteelytom wrote: »

If you have paid us income tax, it should be refunded to you (less any legal aid costs you've run up); and that's a debt cleared.

Then watch Cowen have a heart attack when billions of yo yo's leave your country. Fine with me.

ChocolateSauce · 11-09-2008 7:15pm

Maybe we could pay the jobless Irish to emigrate? Same diff.

Mucco · 11-09-2008 11:26pm

How is this supposed to work? I'm Irish, but currently work abroad. I don't mind coming home for a little bit in order to be paid to leave again.

M

"Pay Jobless Migrants to leave Ireland" - Leo Varadkar

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