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Why I will never bank with Bank of Ireland again.

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  • 26-08-2008 11:21am
    #1
    Kila
    Registered Users Posts: 436 ✭✭


    I am just now coming to the end of a somewhat challenging experience with Bank of Ireland, and I thought I would share some of the details so that others might not get caught out like I did.

    I recently travelled abroad on a two week holiday, and shortly before I travelled, I ordered a Cirrus card from the branch of Bank of Ireland nearest to my office (Ballyfermot). It had previously been explained to me on the 365Phone service that the card would need to be a Cirrus card (with Cirrus logo) to work abroad.

    I picked up the card a few days before I was due to depart. When I picked up the card, I noticed the girl pulling a sticker off the card. When handed the card, I noticed that I couldn't see a Cirrus logo on it, but thought that perhaps it was something to do with the sticker she pulled off (I hadn't had a Cirrus card previously, so wasn't aware of where the logo should be, what size, etc). I asked the teller to confirm that the card would work abroad, and she told me that it would, so I checked that the card worked in a nearby ATM, and then felt safe enough to travel with it.

    I travelled on Saturday 19th of July. Shortly after arrival, I went to get some money from a local ATM, and my card was refused. I thought it might have been a localised problem, so I tried three more ATM's (from different banks) before resigning myself to the fact that my card simply didn't work. I met some family friends there who work in banking, and who told me where the Cirrus logo should be, and that they hadn't given me a Cirrus card, just another new ATM card.

    Needless to say, finding myself abroad, on a weekend, with absolutely no access to my accounts, and only the cash I travelled with, was a pretty upsetting and stressful experience. The first two days of my holiday (Saturday and Sunday) were essentially ruined, as I had to count every penny to ensure that I didn't run out of money - at this stage I wasn't sure that anything could be done, and was worried I might have to go for two weeks on simply the cash in my pocket.

    On Monday, 21st of July, I called the Ballyfermot branch to speak to the manager. She wasn't available to speak at the time, so I explained the situation to the girl who had answered the phone, and asked that she call me back as a matter of urgency. After several phone calls, the bank organised to send some money from my account over to me by Western Union. Unfortunately, the transfer was done to a name that did not match the one on my passport, so by Monday evening, I still had no money. Eventually, on Tuesday, the transfer was redone, and I managed to get some cash.

    Understandably, this put a bit of a damper on the first 4-5 days of my holiday, all of which were spent worrying about spending any of the money I had, wondering whether something could be done, making phone calls, checking Western Union locations (at local hotel internet rates - €2.00 for 15 mins!), etc. Once I finally had the cash, I was a little happier, although it did mean that I had to carry large amounts of cash around with me (which I felt quite uncomfortable doing).

    When I returned home, I was pretty disappointed to find that Bank of Ireland hadn't sent a letter to explain the situation or apologise. In fact, they didn't contact me again, at all, after the second Western Union transfer went through - pretty bad form I thought. While abroad, I had written a letter detailing the situation and my complaints, so I finalised the letter and sent it off. In the letter, I requested a meeting to discuss the issues with the manager of the Ballyfermot branch.

    A few days after posting the letter, I received a call from the Customer Service Manager in the Ballyfermot branch. She apologised for the error, and said that she would be dealing with the situation herself. She also said that the manager was away on holidays herself, and so she couldn't personally deal with my complaint. About a week later (18th August), she called me to confirm that I hadn't been charged for the Western Union (something which I had been unsure of, due to the way it was explained to me while I was abroad). She also apologised again and told me she would be sending out a letter to acknowledge the complaint, as well as a "gesture" of a €50 voucher. I told her that I was not happy with that amount as, in trying to remedy the situation, I had probably spent most of that amount (phone credit - pay-as-you-go roaming rates, internet charges, etc). She said she would have to wait until the manager returned from her holiday to ask for authorisation of a different amount, so I said that I would wait.

    Fast forward to the end of the same week - On 23rd of August, after a day spent in town, I went the nearest ATM (an AIB ATM) to get some cash to pay for the days parking in a multi-story car park (approx. €30), and the night out that I was planning. My card was refused from the ATM. I thought it might be a problem with the machine, so I tried another. When that machine failed, I tried a PTSB one down the road which also failed. I had no choice but to put my parking bill on my credit card (think god I had it with me!) and resolve to try another machine when I saw one. After driving to a friend’s house, I tried the local ATM (Ulster Bank), which also failed. Once again, I was left without any cash, and at the weekend. Once again, I was put in the uncomfortable position of having to borrow money from friends and family to attend the seminar and meal that I had booked earlier that week. Once again, I had to ration my cash to make it last the weekend, as I knew that nothing could be done until Monday morning. For the sake of completeness, on Sunday, I tried a Bank of Ireland ATM. I was unsurprised when my card was refused.

    On Monday morning, 25th of August, having reached something of a peak of frustration, I called 365Phone. I asked to speak to a supervisor or manager, and explained that I wanted to make a complaint, and would like to make it to someone who would deal with the situation immediately. No one was available, so I explained the situation fully to the CSR (the incorrect card they had given me, my unhappiness with the way Ballyfermot were handling the aftermath of the situation, and my utter frustration that I had been left without money again for a weekend). The CSR was very apologetic, and traced my card through the system. She explained to me that a new Cirrus card had been ordered for me when the mistake was brought to their attention (21st July). Ordinarily, when you order a new card, your new card and old card both function for 30 days, and then the old card is deactivated. As they had ordered me a new card, the 30 day dual operation period had elapsed, and the card that I had had been deactivated. As I hadn't been told that a new card had been ordered, it was still sitting in a BOI branch (either Ballyfermot - where I ordered the Cirrus card originally - or Walkinstown - where my account was opened, the girl was unsure). I told her that I had not been made aware that a new card had been ordered, and that if I had, I would, of course, have picked it up. She said that she would call both branches and get back in touch with me shortly.

    At 10:40, the 365Phone CSR called me back to say that she had been in touch with the Ballyfermot branch, and that they would be calling me back. She also said that she had been unable to get through to the Walkinstown branch, but that she had left a voicemail for them, and sent a fax with the same message, asking them to forward the card to Ballyfermot and to call me personally to confirm that this was happening.

    By 15:00 that afternoon, I had still heard nothing from either branch, so I gave up waiting and called 365Phone myself. I dealt with a different CSR (as the original one had left), explained a bit of the problem to him. He faxed and called Walkinstown again, and he put me through to Ballyfermot customer service. Lo and behold, I spoke to the Customer Service Manager (the same one I've spoken to numerous times before, about the original card issue). She said that she had received a call from 365Phone saying that I had called, and that she was going to get the manager to call me back this afternoon, and asked if there was anything she could do to help in the meantime. At this point, my patience was severely tested. The bank closes at 16:00, and the issue I had was pretty urgent in nature, and she was just being so blasé about the whole thing. The manager happened to walk in at that point, so I spoke to her and explained the situation. She hadn't yet read my letter of complaint, but apologised and said she would have a card sent over to me. She also seemed surprised that she hadn't mentioned the fact that they had ordered a new card previously. I wanted to speak to her at length about everything, but felt very rushed off the phone. She said she'd send out a letter and a "gesture", and basically ended the call.

    At 16:50, on 25th of August, the card arrived in the reception of my office. As of yet (26th August, as I write this), I have had no further calls from either the Customer Service Manager or the Branch Manager to enquire as to whether the card arrived, or whether I am satisfied with the resolution of the situation. I have also yet to hear from the Walkinstown branch who, by my count, have now been asked four times to call me as a matter of urgency.

    I have never been so disappointed by a service provider, and have never felt so badly treated. At all points, I feel like I have been treated like a child - they spoke about sending me out "little letter" to acknowledge my complaint, tried to solve the whole matter with €50, and failed to pay any attention to what was going on. At several points, I was told that they "know how I feel", but I am inclined to think that if they truly understood how I am feeling at this point, they would not have allowed it to get this far. If they were really concerned with solving the case, someone would have noticed that, in 30 days, I had made no effort to pick up my new card or enquire about where it was, or even mention it in any communications of conversations. If they were truly as worried and frustrated as I was, they would have called me back minutes after that 365Phone CSR called them, not waited until the end of the day when I lost patience and called them myself to deal with it. At all points, I have felt unimportant and ignored by the Customer Service Manager, and completely rushed off the phone by the Branch Manager.

    I am a good customer of BOI - my salary is paid into my account their, I avail of many of their services. I don't default on debts, and I have tried to be polite, courteous, and patient at all points during this past month. In return, I have been treated so poorly, and let down so badly that I feel my only recourse is to close my account, and to make the whole situation public, so that others might avoid the same problems. I don't believe I will ever bank with them again, nor can I, in good conscience, recommend them to anyone I like (or even someone I dislike). I have not yet received my apology letter or "gesture" from the Branch Manager, but based on previous experience, I can only expect to find it somewhat lacking.


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Comments

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    #2
    unclebill98
    Registered Users Posts: 3,816 ✭✭✭unclebill98


    Wow, that is a detailed post. Nothing I can say except that is very poor service. I am sure if the complaint had of been dealt with proper the 1st time you'd be a happy man. Its nice to see that they did do a WU transfer to help you out, thats something not every bank would do.

    Seems like you where very unlucky and just had a lot of small mistakes one after another. I'd still try and arrange to meet the bank manager. Maybe ring in a just make an appointment to see them, If asked why, say you can't say why but I must meet them. These kind of things might be better dealt with the Customer Service Manager in the branch and not the manager as there normally not up to speed with some of the day to day processes of the branch so i understand why your getting off set to them.

    Shame really, ordering the wrong type of card is easily done, but in your situation its very annoying.


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    #3
    Kila
    Registered Users Posts: 436 ✭✭Kila


    Yup, it's a long post, but I just wanted the facts to be there and correct.

    I didn't want to just put up a post moaning about them without clarifying why - this way, other people can see the facts and make up their mind about it.

    Had they done more to solve the first problem, you're right, I probably wouldn't have been so annoyed. And it was nice of them to send me a WU transfer. I just wish that they hadn't then treated the issue so carelessly afterwards, as I don't feel I deserved it. I filled out the correct forms and spoke to the right people, so I don't think that I should have been the party to be making all the phone calls and chasing up responses.


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    #4
    JJ
    Registered Users Posts: 2,055 ✭✭✭JJ


    I detailed some of my reasons for closing my BOI current account here:

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055342222

    I had a savings account with them up until recently but I closed that after a security guard at the College Green branch was extremely rude to me mum while she was out and about with my daughter. He wouldn't let her go down the ramp with our pram even though that was the only way she could get down. Thankfully, someone helped her carry the pram down the steps.

    Anyhoo, it's easy enough these days to switch. With Halifax you can get a Visa debit card which you would definitely be able to use abroad.


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    #5
    Toots
    Administrators, Business & Finance Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,909 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Toots


    That's really bad service alright. TBH, I'd get on to the BOI customer care unit, they have an email address careline@boimail.com. If I were you I'd email pretty much exactly what you've posted up here. The customer care unit are very good and they'll contact the branch manager, who has to follow up on the complaint. They'll also have a formal record of your complaint, and they'll liaise with you too.


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    #6
    Lizzykins
    Closed Accounts Posts: 637 ✭✭✭Lizzykins


    God almighty that's an unbelievable experience! Mistake piled onto mistake and they're really not all that bothered.


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    #7
    Kila
    Registered Users Posts: 436 ✭✭Kila


    I think that part of the reason I am so unhappy with the whole situation is the way in which they dealt with it. I accept that mistakes can happen (although leaving a customer without money abroad is a pretty big one) but everyone seemed genuinely unconcerned with the issue. It seems like the only person who's made any effort to resolve the issue is me, and I think that's absolutely disgraceful. Had I not submitted a formal written complaint to the branch, they wouldn't have even started the process of apologising or compensating me, and I think that's pretty bad form. In a situation like this, I believe that the bank should be making the first move, not the customer. If they seemed at all bothered by the situation, I probably wouldn't be so disappointed, but the fact of the matter is that the only person who seems to care about it is me.

    I am going to wait until I receive the letter from the manager of the branch, and see what it says before taking any further action. If I'm not happy with it, then I will first contact the careline, and then the financial ombudsman (offshoot of financial regulator that deals with situations like this).


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    #8
    stepbar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,123 ✭✭✭stepbar


    First things first.

    BOI should have told you that they don't issue Cirrus cards anymore. Only Laser cards with duel Maestro / Cirrus functionality. Something is telling me that "a" member of staff wasn't prepared to approve a Laser card for you but I could be wrong. However you should have been told at the time and given an explanation at least. I think this is the real issue TBH.

    Second.

    In fairness they did send you money by Western Union which they have to be commended for. They weren't to know that the name didn't match on your passport.

    Third.

    I can never understand why people don't have backup plans in case of emergency. What would have happened if you lost your wallet? Bit like people not saving for a rainy day..... No offense but you need to be prepared for stuff like this. Maybe this could serve as a life lesson.

    Fourth.

    No offense, but it's not their fault you couldn't be arsed picking up your new card. Seriously.

    Fifth.

    I would get on to the manager in Ballyfermot again. They are obliged to log the problem and respond to same. Not sure if you should take the money. At the end of the day it's not about the money but I couldn't be sure what else the ombudsman could do.


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    #9
    Toots
    Administrators, Business & Finance Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,909 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Toots


    Kila wrote: »
    I think that part of the reason I am so unhappy with the whole situation is the way in which they dealt with it. I accept that mistakes can happen (although leaving a customer without money abroad is a pretty big one) but everyone seemed genuinely unconcerned with the issue. It seems like the only person who's made any effort to resolve the issue is me, and I think that's absolutely disgraceful. Had I not submitted a formal written complaint to the branch, they wouldn't have even started the process of apologising or compensating me, and I think that's pretty bad form. In a situation like this, I believe that the bank should be making the first move, not the customer. If they seemed at all bothered by the situation, I probably wouldn't be so disappointed, but the fact of the matter is that the only person who seems to care about it is me.

    I am going to wait until I receive the letter from the manager of the branch, and see what it says before taking any further action. If I'm not happy with it, then I will first contact the careline, and then the financial ombudsman (offshoot of financial regulator that deals with situations like this).

    I'd get on to the careline now if I were you. It's their job to help, and they'll ensure that this is looked at by the branch, they'll also make sure there's a formal record of your complaint kept. Like you said, mistakes happen, people are only human. I think Stepbar's right when he said it sounds like 'a' person didn't approve you a Laser card and whomever it was either forgot or just never bothered to ring you and tell you. It's how the mistake was dealt with is the real issue, and if you feel that they are fobbing you off, then seriously take it to the careline. They're there to make sure that customers get satisfactory problem resolution and that the branches follow up on complaints made.


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    #10
    aoraki
    Registered Users Posts: 127 ✭✭aoraki


    Yeah, sounds like am unfortunate series of events where you got the rough end of the stick. The majority of your dealings were with Ballyfermot branch while your accounts are at a different branch, is that correct? What normally happens in that case (or at least it is what happened when I worked in BOI a decade ago) is that if you came into a branch where your account was not held, and ordered a card/set up a standing order/they would have to pass that request on to your branch, and rely on them to order the card and send it to Ballyfermot for collection. Any number of things could have happened in the meantime. Ballyfermot might have told you that you would get a laser card no problem, but when they passed the request on to your bank, the lender/admin person in your bank whose decision it ultimately is to grant/deny the issue of laser cards might have turned it down. This is only a guess, any number of things might have happened. But I'd say a major contributor to the breakdown in communication is that you were dealing with a branch were your account is not held, and that they were relaying the various requests/complaints to your own branch.

    I would agree with Stepbar on a couple of points he raised, namely your sole reliance on your laser card as your only source of money while you were way, as well as the point he made about the western union transfer. I would also advise that in future, regardless of what Banking organisation you do your business with, when ordering new cards/chequebooks/whatever you contact the branch where your account is held by phone, make the request and ask them to send it to Branch X for collection. It would minimize the chance of the request being f&cked up.
    I am going to wait until I receive the letter from the manager of the branch, and see what it says before taking any further action. If I'm not happy with it, then I will first contact the careline, and then the financial ombudsman (offshoot of financial regulator that deals with situations like this).

    BOI didn't cover themselves in glory with this one, without question they should have dealt with this in a better fashion. By all means, if you don't get satisfaction from the manager, get on to the careline. Taking it to the ombudsman is a major overreaction on your part in my opinion, and kinda suggests to me that you're milking this one a bit (Again, just my opinion). Besides I'm not sure if the ombudsman would get involved with an issue of this nature, but I may be wrong in that regard.


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    #11
    Toots
    Administrators, Business & Finance Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,909 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Toots


    aoraki wrote: »
    I would agree with Stepbar on a couple of points he raised, namely your sole reliance on your laser card as your only source of money while you were way, as well as the point he made about the western union transfer.


    BOI didn't cover themselves in glory with this one, without question they should have dealt with this in a better fashion. By all means, if you don't get satisfaction from the manager, get on to the careline. Taking it to the ombudsman is a major overreaction on your part in my opinion, and kinda suggests to me that you're milking this one a bit (Again, just my opinion). Besides I'm not sure if the ombudsman would get involved with an issue of this nature, but I may be wrong in that regard.

    I agree. This might be branch specific, but in fairness to Ballyfermot branch, at least they did something to help you, whereas your account holding branch has so far failed to contact you at all. I would only advise contacting the ombudsman if you get no satisfaction from the branch manager, and the careline. As Aoraki said, I'm not sure if they can actually do anything regarding this, but they'll at least be able to give you advice. TBH, if you just jump straight to the ombudsman, the first thing they'll probably ask is have you contacted the branch, and what was the outcome of that. AFAIK, the bank is allowed a timeframe to investigate and resolve each complaint.

    To their credit, they did Western Union you the money, and courier you the card to your office, which they weren't obliged to do. The cost of doing this had probably been taken into account when calculating the value of your 'gesture'. If I were you I wouldn't be getting too picky about the value of the 'gesture', because that's all it is, a gesture, or olive branch if you will. If you start demanding more money, it'll just look like you're out for what you can get, and will take away from what your actual issue is: that you've basically been chasing these two branches trying to talk to someone and you feel like you're being fobbed off. The sad thing about this is, that although they did make an effort to sort things out for you, a little communication would probably have avoided you feeling the way you do. It's not hard for the manager to pick up the phone and give you a call, however in this case this seems to be overlooked.


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    #12
    KillerShamrock
    Registered Users Posts: 1,389 ✭✭✭KillerShamrock


    stepbar wrote: »
    First things first.

    BOI should have told you that they don't issue Cirrus cards anymore. Only Laser cards with duel Maestro / Cirrus functionality.

    Since when ??? Solo cirrus cards are still issued unless it changed at 5pm today.

    It seems like ballyfermot at least tried to remedy the situation, unlike your account holding branch walkinstown, which seemed to sit back and do sfa.
    Balyfermot could of just said sorry you will have to take it up with your own branch. They tried to remedy it and at least offered some sort of apology

    Managers are pointless to approach for complaints the customer service manager is the one you want to be speaking to as its in their title. Most if not all complaints given to a manager will end up on the CSMs desk to try and resolve.

    Why didnt you query the fact that there was no sign of a cirrus logo on your card. The teller should of known better yes but why did you ASSUME when you seen the new card and it was probably no different from your last card it would work abroad.
    I think what happened to you is pretty poor and unfortunate from a customer service point of view, but you do seem to be out for all you can get at this point.
    The branch said sorry and corrected the problem better late than never they went out of their way with the WU transfer and an offer of some sort of compensation for the trouble caused.
    What else do you want?


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    #13
    Kila
    Registered Users Posts: 436 ✭✭Kila


    stepbar wrote: »
    First things first.
    BOI should have told you that they don't issue Cirrus cards anymore. Only Laser cards with duel Maestro / Cirrus functionality. Something is telling me that "a" member of staff wasn't prepared to approve a Laser card for you but I could be wrong. However you should have been told at the time and given an explanation at least. I think this is the real issue TBH.
    That's incorrect - they do issue Cirrus cards, and that's what I signed the mandate for. I highly doubt that I wouldn't be approved for a Laser card, since one was offered over the phone when I called originally to query about what I needed to do to use my account abroad. I have also taken loans and overdrafts with the bank, so I'm pretty sure that they would approve me for a Laser card.
    stepbar wrote: »
    Third.

    I can never understand why people don't have backup plans in case of emergency. What would have happened if you lost your wallet? Bit like people not saving for a rainy day..... No offense but you need to be prepared for stuff like this. Maybe this could serve as a life lesson.
    If I was totally unprepared, I would have had no cash. As it so happens, I did travel with a limited amount of cash in case there weren't any convenient ATMs when I arrived. I had enough to last me a few days, which should have been more than enough. I didn't travel with all of the money I planned to spend on my holiday, because that would have been unsafe and foolish. I don't know anyone that would recommend that you travel around a foreign country with large amounts of cash.
    stepbar wrote: »
    Fourth.

    No offense, but it's not their fault you couldn't be arsed picking up your new card. Seriously.
    As I read more, I wonder if you read my post at all. It's not that I couldn't be arsed picking up my new card, it's that they didn't bother to tell me they had ordered one. I didn't know there was a new card that needed to be picked up, until I called on Monday morning (after they had deactivated my old card). No one mentioned the new card at any point to me, so I didn't know that it was there.
    aoraki wrote: »
    Yeah, sounds like am unfortunate series of events where you got the rough end of the stick. The majority of your dealings were with Ballyfermot branch while your accounts are at a different branch, is that correct? What normally happens in that case (or at least it is what happened when I worked in BOI a decade ago) is that if you came into a branch where your account was not held, and ordered a card/set up a standing order/they would have to pass that request on to your branch, and rely on them to order the card and send it to Ballyfermot for collection. Any number of things could have happened in the meantime. Ballyfermot might have told you that you would get a laser card no problem, but when they passed the request on to your bank, the lender/admin person in your bank whose decision it ultimately is to grant/deny the issue of laser cards might have turned it down. This is only a guess, any number of things might have happened. But I'd say a major contributor to the breakdown in communication is that you were dealing with a branch were your account is not held, and that they were relaying the various requests/complaints to your own branch.

    I would agree with Stepbar on a couple of points he raised, namely your sole reliance on your laser card as your only source of money while you were way, as well as the point he made about the western union transfer. I would also advise that in future, regardless of what Banking organisation you do your business with, when ordering new cards/chequebooks/whatever you contact the branch where your account is held by phone, make the request and ask them to send it to Branch X for collection. It would minimize the chance of the request being f&cked up.



    BOI didn't cover themselves in glory with this one, without question they should have dealt with this in a better fashion. By all means, if you don't get satisfaction from the manager, get on to the careline. Taking it to the ombudsman is a major overreaction on your part in my opinion, and kinda suggests to me that you're milking this one a bit (Again, just my opinion). Besides I'm not sure if the ombudsman would get involved with an issue of this nature, but I may be wrong in that regard.
    Re: Laser card, see above. It's an incorrect assumption, as I have been approved for a Laser, I just don't want one.
    The reason I dealt with Ballyfermot is that I do not have time to travel to the Walkinstown branch during my lunch hour, and in order to issue the card, I had to physically travel to a branch and fill out a card mandate. Had I been given the option to simply call Walkinstown and have them issue the card, I would have done so.
    I'm only considering the ombudsman as a last resort, if I'm not happy with the response from the careline. While I realise that mistakes can happen, BOI have hardly gone above and beyond here.
    I accept that sending the WU transfer was a nice thing to do, and I have said as much when I wrote to them. I even thanked the Customer Service manager, Branch manager, and teller that I dealt with for their speedy action. However, it is their behaviour since then that I have taken most offence at. They are obliged to respond to any complaint within 5 days, and attempt to resolve the situation in 40 days. I called them while still abroad to register the complaint that they had made a mistake with my card, and when I returned home, they hadn't responded in writing, or contacted me again at all to explain what had happened. As soon as they sent the WU transfer, I didn't hear from them again.
    Toots85 wrote: »
    I agree. This might be branch specific, but in fairness to Ballyfermot branch, at least they did something to help you, whereas your account holding branch has so far failed to contact you at all. I would only advise contacting the ombudsman if you get no satisfaction from the branch manager, and the careline. As Aoraki said, I'm not sure if they can actually do anything regarding this, but they'll at least be able to give you advice. TBH, if you just jump straight to the ombudsman, the first thing they'll probably ask is have you contacted the branch, and what was the outcome of that. AFAIK, the bank is allowed a timeframe to investigate and resolve each complaint.

    To their credit, they did Western Union you the money, and courier you the card to your office, which they weren't obliged to do. The cost of doing this had probably been taken into account when calculating the value of your 'gesture'. If I were you I wouldn't be getting too picky about the value of the 'gesture', because that's all it is, a gesture, or olive branch if you will. If you start demanding more money, it'll just look like you're out for what you can get, and will take away from what your actual issue is: that you've basically been chasing these two branches trying to talk to someone and you feel like you're being fobbed off. The sad thing about this is, that although they did make an effort to sort things out for you, a little communication would probably have avoided you feeling the way you do. It's not hard for the manager to pick up the phone and give you a call, however in this case this seems to be overlooked.

    This, to be honest, is my primary annoyance with this whole situation. The amount of the gesture is not important to me, I'm by no means stuck for money. I am waiting to see what is said in the letter, because I'm wondering if they will apologise, or if they will simply fob me off again, this time in writing.

    At every point during the last month, I have had to initiate contact with them to try to resolve it. No one wrote to me or called me to explain what had happened, no one called to ask if I was satisfied with the resolution, no one bothered to tell me that a new card had been ordered and that my old one would soon stop working. And when I did call the branch myself, the Customer Service manager seemed to never care about the problem, and the Manager rushed me off the phone.

    I accept that mistakes can be made, we are all only human. But what I am really annoyed about is the level of service (i.e. no service) after the mistake was discovered. I accept that they sent me out the Western Union transfer, but I really don't think that that should have been the last I heard of them. At the very least, they were obliged to respond to my initial complaint, which they never did.
    Richie6904 wrote: »
    Since when ??? Solo cirrus cards are still issued unless it changed at 5pm today.

    It seems like ballyfermot at least tried to remedy the situation, unlike your account holding branch walkinstown, which seemed to sit back and do sfa.
    Balyfermot could of just said sorry you will have to take it up with your own branch. They tried to remedy it and at least offered some sort of apology

    Managers are pointless to approach for complaints the customer service manager is the one you want to be speaking to as its in their title. Most if not all complaints given to a manager will end up on the CSMs desk to try and resolve.

    Why didnt you query the fact that there was no sign of a cirrus logo on your card. The teller should of known better yes but why did you ASSUME when you seen the new card and it was probably no different from your last card it would work abroad.
    I think what happened to you is pretty poor and unfortunate from a customer service point of view, but you do seem to be out for all you can get at this point.
    The branch said sorry and corrected the problem better late than never they went out of their way with the WU transfer and an offer of some sort of compensation for the trouble caused.
    What else do you want?

    I'm not out for "all I can get" because the money is absolutely not important to me in this case. I have a great job with a steady salary, and am by no means stuck for cash. I am out for a decent apology, not one that I have to chase the branch to get. It's all well and good for them to say sorry when I call them up, but I've been the one doing all of the calling (as explained above). Also, in my original post, you'll notice that I did spot that there was no Cirrus logo on the card, and that's why I asked the teller to confirm that it would work abroad. She told me that it would, and I had no reason to disbelieve her. I assumed nothing - I checked, and was given incorrect information.

    As for the bank going "out of their way" I really don't believe that they have. They sent the WU transfer, and I agree with everyone that that was great of them to do. But they didn't offer an apology or compensation until after I returned home and wrote to them. They didn't even contact me again about the situation, at all (either in writing or over the phone). Had I not made contact with the bank myself, they would have considered the issue fully resolved, and never have contacted me about it. They didn't even bother to tell me that they had ordered a new card (and that, by extension, my old one was going to stop working).

    What I expected is that, when I returned home, the bank would have written to me, apologising for the mix up and explaining what happened. What I expected is that they would have, at the very least, called to offer an apology or an explanation. They did neither.

    Instead, they waited until I contacted them in writing before they even bothered contacting me. And on Monday, even though the 365Phone girl asked both branches to call me urgently, by 3pm (1 hour before closing time), neither branch had gotten back to me about what was going on with my card. When I called myself, the Customer Service manager said that she remembered someone from 365 calling, and that she was going to get the Manager to call me. Even though she knew what the problem was (having had it explained to her by the 365 girl) she made no effort to resolve it, to get in touch with me, or even to explain what was going on. It was only by chance that the manager happened to walk by that I got to speak to her, and that I even got a card sent to me at all, because had I waited for them to call me, and for the Customer Service manager to do something about it, I would still be waiting now. (And as a side note, they didn't courier the card out, they sent a porter from one bank to the other, and then to my office, which is about 5 mins away).

    I'm not out to get everything I can here, I just wanted to make the whole complaint public, because I really believe that it's a big customer service failure on their part. I accept (and have said as much, even to them) that mistakes happen, but the failure to even contact me afterwards wasn't a mistake, it was that they just didn't bother. That's where the problem lies, and that's what I'm complaining about. The rest of the stuff - that's just explaining the context of the situation as, unless you know me personally, you're unlikely to know what went on.


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    #14
    aoraki
    Registered Users Posts: 127 ✭✭aoraki


    Again Kila, all I can say is that it looks like a whole series of small mistakes/oversights was made on behalf of the bank which compounded to leave you being very cheesed off. The bank don't purposely set out to piss people off, but unfortunately these things do happen sometime. Like I said previously, I'd say the problem was complicated by the fact that you were primarily dealing with a branch that is not your account holding branch, as well as going through another channel, 365Phone. Sounds like there was multiple breakdowns in communication. To be honest, if I were you, I'd be directing my complaint at your account holding branch (Walkinstown, right?) and let them chase it up. Ballyfermot appear to have been caught in the crossfire here a bit.

    At the end of the day (to quote Royston Keane), all the bank can do in this case is to apologise for their mistake and make a gesture with regard to the expense incurred by you because of it. Sounds like they have done some of that already, so I'm not sure what else you're expecting at the end of all this. If you're not happy after all that, then close your account and take your business somewhere else - it's as simple as that. Life is too short to be getting bogged down with piffles like this. As far as big-issues-which-should-be-brought-to-the-attention-of-the-public are concerned, I really don't think this is one IMHO.


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    #15
    stepbar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,123 ✭✭✭stepbar


    Richie6904 wrote: »
    Since when ??? Solo cirrus cards are still issued unless it changed at 5pm today.


    Ask your manager or procedure support. A memo was issued recently. Has been in place a good month now. New Cirrus cards cannot be ordered only reissue ones.


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    #16
    ntlbell
    Registered Users Posts: 16,288 ✭✭✭✭ntlbell


    humans are flawed

    humans work in every bank

    every bank has these flaws

    the end.


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    #17
    Kila
    Registered Users Posts: 436 ✭✭Kila


    I will be closing my account as soon as my paycheque is paid into it (as it's too late to tell my payroll dept. to change it now).

    As for the "big-issues-which-should-be-brought-to-the-attention-of-the-public are concerned, I really don't think this is one IMHO.", I can only say that I, like everyone involved, am human, and have a breaking point. I needed to vent my frustration, and rather than take it out on someone over the phone and be rude, I chose to write it all down. Posting it is as much for myself as for anyone else who may read it. I'm not claiming that I need to warn the world, just that I've had such a frustrating experience that I needed to shout about it. I don't agree with getting angry or aggressive over the phone with someone, it serves no useful purpose, and won't solve the problem any faster. However, I'm not made of stone, and while I may not have wanted to take it out on the poor 365 Phone CSR (all she did was answer my call), I was still pretty darn angry by the end of that day.


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    #18
    Kila
    Registered Users Posts: 436 ✭✭Kila


    stepbar wrote: »
    Ask your manager or procedure support. A memo was issued recently. Has been in place a good month now.

    The card that they issued me, and sent over to me on Monday evening, is a Cirrus card. Not Laser, Maestro, or anything else. Just an ATM card with Cirrus. The mandate that they sent with it also had the box ticked for ATM/Cirrus.


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    #19
    aoraki
    Registered Users Posts: 127 ✭✭aoraki


    That's fair enough Kila - it's good to vent from time to time! ;-) And please don't get me wrong, I wasn't demeaning your grievance - sometimes it's the small matters like these that cause the most annoyance. I think it's good that you didn't lose the rag with a poor sod who just happened to take your call of complaint (I've been that poor sod on the other end of the phone and it's never a pleasant experience when you have somebody embarking on a rantfest...)

    Hope you have a better experience in your new bank (And I hope BOI don't f&ck up the whole account closing thing as well - that would be the proverbial salt in the wound!)


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    #20
    Kila
    Registered Users Posts: 436 ✭✭Kila


    I've been on the other end of a call centre phone too, and it's wholly unpleasant when people call up and go nuts straight away. I resolved then that I'd never call up and go mad, that I'd always try to keep my cool even if I was totally seeing red. It's not fair to the person on the end of the phone, because generally call centre people aren't the ones who've caused the problem, just the ones who get all the stick.

    Also, I've found that you will tend to get a better response if you are polite and patient, rather than pushy and aggressive (even if your patience is being severely tested!).

    I'm still debating which bank to take up with, as I'm interested in customer experience as well as just the numbers (i.e. not interested in 10% interest if I can't ever talk to a person when there's a problem, or if there have been a lot of problems). I do hope that the closure, at least, will go smoothly.


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    #21
    pow wow
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,288 ✭✭✭pow wow


    I'm closing my BOI account for a reason not entirely dissimilar to yours (being stranded without any cash overseas because the teller had processed my transaction as a 'transfer' rather than a separate withdrawal/lodgment) and all I can say is vote with your feet. Mistakes do indeed happen all the time, it's unfortunate, but it's how they deal with the mistakes when they happen that makes the difference.

    The branch manager where my 'error' happened said it was because the teller was Polish and so 'didn't quite understand' me when I stipulated I wanted to do a withdrawal and a lodgment, so did a transfer instead. If her nationality had anything to do with it, which I sincerely doubt, then that's his issue, not mine. He was trying to glaze over it as a cultural thing which incensed me even more, so I've gone to another bank.


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    #22
    LouOB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,181 ✭✭✭LouOB


    I worked in a branch (not BOI - *blesses myself*) I found that when one mistake happend like Kila's they went REALLY wrong. I find that its to do with communication - by customer as well as staff.
    Staff were obviously inexperienced to deal with your requests and you were extremely frustrated and angry with the staff - which lead to further issues. I have found BOI terrible in the past.
    But once I learned the banking system was able to understand it better


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    #23
    Toots
    Administrators, Business & Finance Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,909 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Toots


    stepbar wrote: »
    Ask your manager or procedure support. A memo was issued recently. Has been in place a good month now. New Cirrus cards cannot be ordered only reissue ones.

    I'll back this up, there was a memo issued on this, and AFAIK, the option to order a straight Cirrus card is going to be taken off the system in the coming months. There's also going to be a new card mandate brought out with just two options ATM or Laser.
    Kila wrote: »
    The card that they issued me, and sent over to me on Monday evening, is a Cirrus card. Not Laser, Maestro, or anything else. Just an ATM card with Cirrus. The mandate that they sent with it also had the box ticked for ATM/Cirrus.

    They should have issued you with a Laser. Not really a whole lot of difference if you don't want to use the debit card facility, but the same criteria apply for getting a Laser as getting a Cirrus. TBH, it sounds to me like someone made a balls of ordering your card, and everything just snowballed from there.


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    #24
    stepbar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,123 ✭✭✭stepbar


    Toots85 wrote: »
    I'll back this up, there was a memo issued on this, and AFAIK, the option to order a straight Cirrus card is going to be taken off the system in the coming months. There's also going to be a new card mandate brought out with just two options ATM or Laser.



    They should have issued you with a Laser. Not really a whole lot of difference if you don't want to use the debit card facility, but the same criteria apply for getting a Laser as getting a Cirrus. TBH, it sounds to me like someone made a balls of ordering your card, and everything just snowballed from there.

    I'd + 1 all that. In fact the mandates are already in issue. The problem is that most branches are still holding on to a supply of old ones (for what reason I don't know...).

    I'd even go as far as saying that (as far as I'm concerned) the Laser card option should have been recommended. Having a Laser card is not that big of a deal TBH. In fact in most cases it works out a lot more benefical to the customer.


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    #25
    stepbar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,123 ✭✭✭stepbar


    It's a pity that there's so much bad sentiment on this thread towards BOI. We're not a bad bank to deal with TBH (and I say that as being a customer of BOI well before being an employee of same). I couldn't really say the same of other banks having had experience of dealing with same over the past few years. As far as I'm concerned I would never look past the two top banks (i.e AIB / BOI), again from my experience of others. But I suppose everyone to their own and all that goes with it.

    And before anyone asks - I would definatly encourage customers to vote with their feet (as Ellscurr so eloquently put it :D). At the end of the day you're the customer and if you're not happy well then you should act accordingly.


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    #26
    pow wow
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,288 ✭✭✭pow wow


    To be fair (to Stepbar's employer :D) if a thread was opened on any of the banks titled 'Why I'm never banking with xxx again' there'd be a similar glut of replies. I don't think BOI are any better or any worse than anyone else, I worked for PTSB and don't like them either.

    My home branch of BOI are great, a lot of their staff are older and have been there years, and so know the ins and outs like the back of their hands. All my gripes with BOI are to do with errors that staff made (as is the OP's). If I lived anywhere near that branch I'd still bank with BOI. Sadly I don't and I cba to deal with the newbies they're hiring these days who don't have a clue. Again, nothing unique to BOI.


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    #27
    Kila
    Registered Users Posts: 436 ✭✭Kila


    stepbar wrote: »
    It's a pity that there's so much bad sentiment on this thread towards BOI. We're not a bad bank to deal with TBH (and I say that as being a customer of BOI well before being an employee of same). I couldn't really say the same of other banks having had experience of dealing with same over the past few years. As far as I'm concerned I would never look past the two top banks (i.e AIB / BOI), again from my experience of others. But I suppose everyone to their own and all that goes with it.

    I'm sure that there are plenty of horror stories about all of the banks out there, which is why I'm taking my time in choosing a new one. Customer service matters as much to me as the numbers that they quote trying to get you in the door.

    I'm not so much angry, mostly just disappointed. What happened was a small mistake that someone made in ordering the wrong card for me. I'm sure it's easy enough to do, and lord knows I've made mistakes in my life. The card screw up, by itself, wouldn't have been enough to make me leave the bank, tbh. I'm not unreasonable, and even though I was really upset when it happened, I was just going to express my disappointment to the bank and leave it at that.

    The breakdown in communication and complete failure in customer service is what has prompted me to decide to leave, as I've found it really disappointing. I accept that mistakes can be made with processing occasionally, but I really, genuinely do believe that their customer service in the aftermath was very poor. Simply calling me or writing to me to acknowledge the complaint (as the Financial Regulator obliges them to do), rather than waiting until I initiated contact again (in writing), would have made a difference here. Paying attention to my account, and explaining the details, rather than uninterested perfunctory phone calls would have made a difference here (e.g. had anyone involved actually looked at my account details, they would have noticed that a new card had been ordered, and perhaps would have mentioned it to me). Prompt replies, of their own accord, would have made a difference here (instead of not bothering to call me back, and only starting to fix the problem when, in desperation, I called them).

    I have been as honest as possible in everything that I've written here, and when I say that I tried to remain calm and patient throughout every call, I really do mean it. I never raised my voice, got annoyed or aggressive, or treated anyone on the phone in any manner other than politely.

    In this situation, one mistake spiralled into more mistakes, and it all probably wouldn't have gotten so far if the customer service manager involved had really just paid attention to the case. Instead, every time I spoke to her, I got the impression that she didn't remember who I was or why I might be calling her.

    I had a great experience with BOI for the loan that I took with them, setting up overdraft facilities and online banking, etc. But I think that even you would have to admit that there was a failure in customer service here, and that it never should have gotten this far.


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    #28
    stepbar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,123 ✭✭✭stepbar


    ellscurr wrote: »
    To be fair (to Stepbar's employer :D) if a thread was opened on any of the banks titled 'Why I'm never banking with xxx again' there'd be a similar glut of replies. I don't think BOI are any better or any worse than anyone else, I worked for PTSB and don't like them either.

    My home branch of BOI are great, a lot of their staff are older and have been there years, and so know the ins and outs like the back of their hands. All my gripes with BOI are to do with errors that staff made (as is the OP's). If I lived anywhere near that branch I'd still bank with BOI. Sadly I don't and I cba to deal with the newbies they're hiring these days who don't have a clue. Again, nothing unique to BOI.

    Out of pure interest... what branch do you deal with? I've heard you talk about it before....


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    #29
    in the pub
    Registered Users Posts: 49 ✭in the pub


    Kila you are absolutley right to change your bank. There's much better out there. BOI are terrible. I've had these sorts of problems many times with them and have finally given up and am also switching bank accounts.

    Even if you had a Lasor card I don't think it would have helped your situation much. I was in the UK just yesterday and tried to use the card in 3 different stores-all major stores displaying the so called 'internationally recognised' Meastro logo. Got declined by all of them-card not accepted in UK. Then went to various ATM's, declined by the smaller ones-you can only use the ATM's by major banks!

    I've said it before and i'll say it again. BOI need to move with the times. They can not treat customers like this and this thread along with many others just goes to confirm this.

    Now Stepbar,fire away-i'm all ears................


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    #30
    stepbar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,123 ✭✭✭stepbar


    in the pub wrote: »
    Kila you are absolutley right to change your bank. There's much better out there. BOI are terrible. I've had these sorts of problems many times with them and have finally given up and am also switching bank accounts.

    Even if you had a Lasor card I don't think it would have helped your situation much. I was in the UK just yesterday and tried to use the card in 3 different stores-all major stores displaying the so called 'internationally recognised' Meastro logo. Got declined by all of them-card not accepted in UK. Then went to various ATM's, declined by the smaller ones-you can only use the ATM's by major banks!

    I've said it before and i'll say it again. BOI need to move with the times. They can not treat customers like this and this thread along with many others just goes to confirm this.

    Now Stepbar,fire away-i'm all ears................

    Move with the times? :confused: Have you ever visited the Post Office in the UK? I'm sure they could help ( I doubt you know why....). You're not the only one to experience problems in the UK (all other banks included)... How about trying an ATM machine? :rolleyes:


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    #31
    in the pub
    Registered Users Posts: 49 ✭in the pub


    stepbar wrote: »
    Move with the times? :confused: Have you ever visited the Post Office in the UK? I'm sure they could help ( I doubt you know why....). You're not the only one to experience problems in the UK (all other banks included)... How about trying an ATM machine? :rolleyes:

    Stepbar, I have no idea what you are talking about......I see you posted your reply at around half 3 this morning...had a few last night did we? Drunk posts.....so annoying!

    As the original poster mentioned to you previously, you need to read the posts properly before you dive in with a sarcastic reply. I mentioned in my post that i tried a few different ATM's and they all denied the prehistoric BOI lasor card.

    Try to understand what people are trying to say before you come in with your smart arse replies. You are sounding more and more like a BOI banker everytime you post.


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