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Dunkettle Interchange (Roads and Interchange Thread)

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  • 29-06-2008 11:58pm
    #1
    AugustusMaximus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,044 ✭✭✭


    In all seriousness, what are the options with this junction ? Every evening around 6 we have traffic backed up to Rochestown because of it.

    I guess we could.

    1. Block off the slip roads into Glounthaune and create a complete freeflow junction just like the Red Cow.
    2. Have an underpass for tunnel to N8 direction creating a 3 tier junction.
    3. Do 2 plus add as many left turn sliproads as possible.

    What are Cork County Councils current plans ?
    Tagged:


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    #2
    Amtmann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭Amtmann


    As far as I know, there are no current plans - unfortunately. See http://www.corkrdo.ie/current_projects.php


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    #3
    Bogger77
    Registered Users Posts: 1,857 ✭✭✭Bogger77


    AugustusMaximus wrote: »
    In all seriousness, what are the options with this junction ? Every evening around 6 we have traffic backed up to Rochestown because of it.

    I guess we could.

    1. Block off the slip roads into Glounthaune and create a complete freeflow junction just like the Red Cow.
    2. Have an underpass for tunnel to N8 direction creating a 3 tier junction.
    3. Do 2 plus add as many left turn sliproads as possible.

    What are Cork County Councils current plans ?
    by Glounthaune, you mean Cork City, and N25 to Waterford.


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    #4
    AugustusMaximus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,044 ✭✭✭AugustusMaximus


    No. There are two slip roads. One onto the N8 Southbound just before the roundabout from the old Glanmire to Glounthaune road. The other is a sliproad directly off the roundabout on the N25 Eastbound exit, which also leads onto the Glanmire to Glounthaune road.


    I'm guessing that with the North Ring Road going to be built, a need for N8 to tunnel being freeflow is def needed.

    Overall with the NRR being built I would like to see a few alternations in the Cork road setup.

    1. When NRR is complete, redesignate the entire ringroad as something like the M75 and slap motorway restrictions on the whole lot.
    2. Redesign the N8 to NRR junction so that the M8 starts just about Glanmire.
    3. Make sure that the junctions with the Ballincollig bypass is freeflow.


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    #5
    corktina
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    i suppose that junction was built when we were poorer but it does seem a poor design to have the N8 and N25 cross* right outside the tunnel...very little room for manoeuve there....and the Waterford to Cork traffic get the best deal with a flyover....but there again that has a roundabout with only local usage right next to the tunnel one...


    *technically they dont cross but you know what I mean :)


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    #6
    Chris_533976
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,082 ✭✭✭Chris_533976


    Furet wrote: »
    As far as I know, there are no current plans - unfortunately. See http://www.corkrdo.ie/current_projects.php

    I cant find the file, but the NRA have it listed under their planned projects (its not in the Road Scheme Activity yet tho). No ideas if it'll be full or partial GSJ tho.

    I drew up my own little plans in a nerdish moment recently, but I've thrown them out since. It IS possible to do, but the awkward route is the road that comes from Little Island near the tunnel mouth. Unfortunately the whole thing was a lot easier with a set of traffic lights floating around.


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    #7
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,251 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    corktina wrote: »
    i suppose that junction was built when we were poorer but it does seem a poor design to have the N8 and N25 cross* right outside the tunnel...very little room for manoeuve there....and the Waterford to Cork traffic get the best deal with a flyover...
    When the road was built Cork-Midleton-Cork was expected to be the dominant flow (I don't know what is now).

    Geography played a much more important part than money in the design of the junction - it is sandwiched between the hills to the north and Lough Mahon to the south and is on top of the railway.


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    #8
    Chris_533976
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,082 ✭✭✭Chris_533976


    And the protected Dunkettle house :(

    It'll be interesting to see what they can do with it.


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    #9
    Carawaystick
    Registered Users Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Carawaystick


    I dunno how congested the old roundabout at the Glanmire road gets but, how about sending all N25west traffic to the old roundabout and building a slip for N8 North avoiding the Dunkettle roundabout completely. this could be as simple as fencing off one of the existing lanes from Dunkettle roundabout and having a merge - issue with trucks coming from tunnel in right hand lane crossing. or building a new slip over the railway fro N8 northbound traffic.

    At peak times, there probably isn't a large flow from N25W to N8N but the sequence needs to be there in the lights.

    then you could make N8S to N25E freeflowing and maybe make N25N to N8W freeflowing by adding the second lane the whole way to the merge.

    I don't think the N25E to N25S can be made freeflowing as the service road needs to be used as an escape route for overheight vehicles.

    then the big one would be an overbridge from N8S over the straight N25/N8 dual carriageway and merging between Dunkettle and Lota roundabouts


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    #10
    invincibleirish
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,219 ✭✭✭invincibleirish


    Dont forget the plans for the Dunkettle P&R when using your crayons, and how about protecting the Rail alignment for future development? or am i just wildly optimistic?


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    #11
    Bogger77
    Registered Users Posts: 1,857 ✭✭✭Bogger77


    the former ibis hotel would be an ideal location for a p+r for traffic from east, as it is. Wouldnt take much to make links to the N8 north.


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    #12
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,251 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    I've done some crayoning.

    It won't be easy, but you could make the main interchange fairly or completly freeflow - the problems you run into are dealing with the old roundabout and the local roads.

    4 is nearly perfect (but means getting inventive with the river channel between the main land and Little Island), 5 still has some right turns.

    The North Esk depot is on the centre right of the map.


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    #13
    Irish and Proud
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,735 ✭✭✭Irish and Proud


    Victor wrote: »
    I've done some crayoning.

    It won't be easy, but you could make the main interchange fairly or completly freeflow - the problems you run into are dealing with the old roundabout and the local roads.

    4 is nearly perfect (but means getting inventive with the river channel between the main land and Little Island), 5 still has some right turns.

    The North Esk depot is on the centre right of the map.

    I'd go for option 5 - a few minor tweaks required here and there, but the overall concept is pretty innovative mate. IMO, an upgrade on that scale is justified given the traffic flows and the importance of that junction - the intersecting roads are not just National Routes, but also Euroroutes: E30 (N25); and E201 (N8). Oh, and then there'll be the added traffic resulting from the proposed N22 Cork Northern Ring too!!! - it will happen sooner or later IMO!

    Regards!

    PS: Let's get the Bandon Road and Sarsfield junctions done too!


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    #14
    Chris_533976
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,082 ✭✭✭Chris_533976


    Much as I'd love to see Bandon/Sarsfield done, I'd almost be tempted to hold off doing those and do Dunkettle at the same time.

    Can you imagine Dunkettle in the evenings with grade separated DC all the way from Ballincollig?


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    #15
    invincibleirish
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,219 ✭✭✭invincibleirish


    Chris_533976 wrote: »
    Can you imagine Dunkettle in the evenings with grade separated DC all the way from Ballincollig?

    Ah but Chris can you imagine the South Ring in the evening with simultaneous construction work at Bandon, Sarsfield & Dunkettle, surely chaos!


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    #16
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,707 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Chris_533976 wrote: »
    Can you imagine Dunkettle in the evenings with grade separated DC all the way from Ballincollig?

    People said that about Newlands after the N7 got grade seperated all the way out - didn't actually make it much worse.


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    #17
    Lennoxschips
    Registered Users Posts: 1,772 ✭✭✭Lennoxschips


    the first priority is to stop building sprawling housing estates in glanmire, watergrasshill, fermoy, midleton, glounthuane and fermoy

    unfortunately the idiots in charge of cork county council have earmarked these areas for further development in their "development" plan.


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    #18
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,251 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    Lennoxschips wrote: »
    the first priority is to stop building sprawling housing estates in glanmire, watergrasshill, fermoy, midleton, glounthuane and fermoy

    unfortunately the idiots in charge of cork county council have earmarked these areas for further development in their "development" plan.
    Agreed. Although I would be more liberal with the locations that have train stations than those that don't.


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    #19
    Irish and Proud
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,735 ✭✭✭Irish and Proud


    Irish and Proud wrote: »
    I'd go for option 5 - a few minor tweaks required here and there, but the overall concept is pretty innovative mate. IMO, an upgrade on that scale is justified given the traffic flows and the importance of that junction - the intersecting roads are not just National Routes, but also Euroroutes: E30 (N25); and E201 (N8). Oh, and then there'll be the added traffic resulting from the proposed N22 Cork Northern Ring too!!! - it will happen sooner or later IMO!

    Regards!

    PS: Let's get the Bandon Road and Sarsfield junctions done too!

    Sorry, I meant option 4 (the full freeflow proposal)!

    Regards!


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    #20
    nordydan
    Registered Users Posts: 1,104 ✭✭✭nordydan


    MYOB wrote: »
    People said that about Newlands after the N7 got grade seperated all the way out - didn't actually make it much worse.

    Indeed, once the traffic is slow it is slow, perhaps it is a good idea just to do them all at once? Indeed, should Newlands X have been done at the same time as the M50 Upgrade Phase 1?
    Just a thought...


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    #21
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,707 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    nordydan wrote: »
    Indeed, once the traffic is slow it is slow, perhaps it is a good idea just to do them all at once? Indeed, should Newlands X have been done at the same time as the M50 Upgrade Phase 1?
    Just a thought...

    Another poster has stated it had to be delayed for the final phase of the Outer Ring Road to open first - which only did this past week.


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    #22
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,251 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    So this is a copy of the variation that included the park and ride in the development plan. Its not online on the Cork County Council website for some reason - maybe this is why the NRA missed it. :) The variation modifies both the overall county development plan and the local development plan, hence it is in two parts.

    There are two issues:
    1. It is really difficult to make the interchange freeflow without the site suggested for the park and ride.
    2. The access to the site suggested for the park and ride is problematic:
    a. It can't come off the existing roundabout as it is already overly busy.
    b. If the interchange is upgraded the park and ride still won't have access as any potential access will be designed out to make the interchange freeflow.

    Neither of these is fatal, as you could access the park and ride from the local roads, but it does make the P&R car park rather complicated with two slip roads running through it and another two elevated slip roads over it.

    I also attach a drawing with a suggested layout for the interchange upgrade. The design would probably need to be quite close to this if it is to be fully free-flowing. The main problem arises with the slope down to the tunnel, which prevents the layoutt from being mirrored. The P&R site is outlined in white.

    http://localhostr.com/files/ce21aa/Dunkettle%20-%20Amendment%201.pdf
    http://localhostr.com/files/8f97e6/Dunkettle%20-%20Enviromental%20Statement%20for%20Amendment%201.pdf
    http://localhostr.com/files/a1eb76/Dunkettle%20-%20Variation%205.pdf
    http://localhostr.com/files/dbab25/dunkettle4a.jpg


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    #23
    AugustusMaximus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,044 ✭✭✭AugustusMaximus


    Surely there is no way that, that park and ride facility is going to go ahead if it means it will stop Dunkettle from ever being a freeflow junction.

    That would just be the height of stupidity.


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    #24
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,251 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    Do we live in Germany? :)


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    #25
    Dkettle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12 ✭Dkettle


    Victor

    That rezoning was on the Cork Co Co website for about a year I'd say, and the proposal has been reheated ad nauseum in the media. It's an astonishing miss, and even more so that the Cork Co Co Roads Office (situated at the top of the hill above this site) would have missed / ignored this.

    At the moment the Roads office are merrily proposing an upgrade of the Dunkettle Road based on 1. retention of existing slip roads on off the N roads, 2. construction of the P&R right beside the Dunkettle interchange.

    There are at least two other sites locally that could be used for P&R, immediately to the NE of the current site, and slightly further east in North Esk (loads of spare land there).

    However as a selfish local I want to see it on the site where it gets built the fastest!


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    #26
    desieo
    Registered Users Posts: 1 ✭desieo


    The pink road heading East crosses the old estuary walls, which are protected by the council. Also the old houses in North Esk !


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    #27
    dowlingm
    Registered Users Posts: 5,309 ✭✭✭dowlingm


    Lennoxschips wrote: »
    the first priority is to stop building sprawling housing estates in glanmire, watergrasshill, fermoy, midleton, glounthuane and fermoy

    unfortunately the idiots in charge of cork county council have earmarked these areas for further development in their "development" plan.
    Lennoxchips, to be fair, the CC did build houses in places like Midleton, Carrigtwohill and Blarney where the Govt swore blind there would be railway stations. But then the CC saw that Government promises trains and builds roads so their planning changed...


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