Stressed out over house sale

gazzer · 04-06-2008 7:05pm #1

Ive posted a few times over my impending house sale and to be honest I am sick of my own voice at this stage going on and on about it but I am starting to really stress it.

I rang my solicitor last week as I just wanted to get updated information on my house sale (I am selling to a couple and we are both agreed to a closing date of June 19th). Anyway the reason I rang the solicitor was because I was offered a transer out of Dublin to a county location with work (the move wasnt meant to happen until next year but has been moved forward and I really want the job)

My solicitor proceeded to inform me that they buyers are not mortgaged approved so it could take ages for them to get approval and that I might be better putting the house on the market.

Naturally i was very stressed at this news so I got onto the estate agents handling the sale (I had been assurred by them that the buyers were mortgage approved). They confirmed that the buyers were indeed mortgage approved and they were anxious to move into their new house on June 19th, they were however waiting from their mortgage pack from the bank and that the contracts should be signed by the end of the week.

So that news eased my stress levels somewhat. I rang the estate agents 2 days later as I wanted an update. She told me that the bank was processing the application (she was told the by the broker) but that it might'nt be processed fully by the end of the week (bank holiday) as the bank was very busy processing applications.

I was hoping it would have been completed by the end of last week as it would have meant I could have had a relatively stress free weekend if the contracts had have been signed last Friday.

I rang the estate agents yesterday who said she would get onto the buyers and broker and ring me back. No call came until this morning where she told me that she had left a couple of messages with the broker but no reply yet but not to worry that she would keep trying. Skip to close of business today and no call back so I rang her. Still no word from the broker, he is out of the office all day with clients and she isnt sure why he hasnt rang back.

Is this normal practice? This whole business is starting to freak me out. I have provisionally booked removal vans and a skip as well as appointments this weekend to look at some properties to rent in the area where the new job is. I just wish the sale was over and done with....aghhhhhhhhhhhh

Jo King · 04-06-2008 7:55pm

Sounds like your solicitor is right! Either these people are mortgage approved or they are not. If they are they will have a letter of approval from their lender so why don't they sign the contract? If they are waiting on a mortgage pack it seems like they are not approved. The lenders are stalling approvals at the moment in an attempt to maintain liquidity. The chances are that you are being told a lot of bull**** by the agent who is hoping against hope that the broker will pull a rabbit from the hat and the purchasers will sign up.

luckat · 04-06-2008 8:04pm

If you haven't got a solid deposit already paid to your solicitor and a solid agreement to buy, your house should surely be still on the market?

I'd be inclined to trust your solicitor on this, and ask him or her whether he/she should tell the would-be buyers that the house is going to go back on the market.

I had a three-month dangle on a house sale when 'friends' were supposedly waiting for me to get approval for stuff that they'd said didn't matter when they agreed to buy. Then when I got it they said they'd sign 'subject to loan approval' - and when I said 'but haven't you already got loan approval?' they said 'oh, yeah, but that's what our solicitor said we should sign'.

I put the house back on the market and sold it within another three months, during which time my 'friends' never came back to me. They'd cost me six months' bridging finance, double ESB and phone bills for six months, and endless worry and trouble and travelling between two jobs, two houses and effectively two families.

gazzer · 05-06-2008 11:25am

Just had a call from the estate agents. The buyers were in with her a little while ago asking if it could be arranged for the closing date to be extended as the wife has to have a medical. Apparantly its one of the conditions that the bank have put on the mortgage approval. They are going to let the estate agent know tomorrow morning when they have a date for the medical.. God this thing is never ending. I think I have aged 10 years in the last month

@ luckat The couple put a booking deposit on the house 8 weeks back. It was then that the sale agreed sign went up on the house.

Smoggy · 05-06-2008 11:38am

Just so you know and don't stress over it - the medical can take quite a while, it took a month for a neighbour.

gazzer · 05-06-2008 12:03pm

@ Smoggy. I dont mind too much to be honest if the sale takes a little longer to go through as my job move isnt until around the 3rd week of July so I suppose the longer I can stay in the house (and not have to rely on family and friends to put me up) the better.

I suppose the most important thing is that the buyers are still very eager to proceed with the sale. I just rang my solicitor and she said that on average she has seen medicals take about a week for the report to come through.. in her experience , so anyway I will just have to be positive and hope that everything will work out ok.

Jo King · 05-06-2008 12:06pm

It is obvious that there never was mortgage approval. This is going to run and run.

beeno67 · 05-06-2008 2:49pm

You are probably getting confused between mortgage approval and approval in principal. They obviously had approval in principal. They do not have full mortgage approval as once they do the sale will be complete. The closing date is not until June 19th, they do not need full mortgage approval until this date. They would be mad to sign contracts before this date.
On a personal level, I was buying a house a few years ago (at height of boom). The seller acted the way you are and irritated me more and more. Eventually the estate agent rang me saying sellers wanted to know result of my medical. This was the final straw and I immediately told estate agent I was dropping my offer on house €10,000. I also delayed purchase by 3 days purely because I was so irritated by sellers. Unless your house si something special I would stop being so irritating to buyers and just wait.

gazzer · 05-06-2008 3:36pm

@ beeno67.. If wanting to know how one of the biggest transactions I am every likely to be involved in is progressing is been irritating then I am happy to be that way.

Eh this is my home we are talking about. I need to know what is going on in order to negotiate moving furniture, time off work, etc. I was told that the buyers were mortgage approved.. not approved in principle.

If you get your jolly's by messing people around with closing dates of house sales well thats your business but I would hope that other people would not be so vindictive and understand that I am just worried about what is going on and would rather know now rather than later if the sale is going to go ahead.

EKRIUQ · 05-06-2008 4:14pm

gazzer wrote: »

If you get your jolly's by messing people around with closing dates of house sales well thats your business but I would hope that other people would not be so vindictive and understand that I am just worried about what is going on and would rather know now rather than later if the sale is going to go ahead.

If your as regular here, you'll know that there is advice from some people on this board saying to buyers to offer €20,000 less maybe your buyers are thinking the same caused by your actions. I'm guessing your really pissing off the estate agent, the borker and the buyers.

If your brave enough, ring your solicitor and tell them your putting the house back on the market unless contracts are signed on day XXX. Put your selfs in the buyers shoes, it's not that easy to get mortgage approval in the current market.

Here's a piece of information for you:

Every mortgage on a house needs a valuation done.
Has a Valuer been to your house to value it, if not no mortgage has been granted

gazzer · 05-06-2008 4:24pm

Every mortgage on a house needs a valuation done.
Has a Valuer been to your house to value it, if not no mortgage has been granted

Yes.. A valuer came out to the house 7 weeks ago. Its was a week after the buyers put a booking deposit on the house.

The buyers got (what I thought was mortgage approval) what now appears to be approval in principle at the beginning of April. They waited till they got this until they put the booking deposit down. That was about 8 weeks ago. Up till last week I hadnt heard anything else from the estate agents or my own solicitor (except for the copy of the contract that was sent out to me). It was only from last week that I started ringing the solicitor and estate agents as I was starting to get a bit worried and also the fact that job offer had come up I needed to find out if there was any problems in the horizon.

Im not trying to be pushy with the buyers or solicitors. I totally understand that the mortgage process can vary from application. I just want to know what is happening as I have never been through this process before and it is very very stressful. Surely I am entitled to know what is going on? I mean I have only rang the estate agents 4 times since the booking deposit was paid.. I dont think that is being pushy. As I said all along I have no problem in extending the house sale closing date as long as I know that I am not been messed around.

beeno67 · 05-06-2008 5:01pm

gazzer wrote: »

@ beeno67.. If wanting to know how one of the biggest transactions I am every likely to be involved in is progressing is been irritating then I am happy to be that way.

Eh this is my home we are talking about. I need to know what is going on in order to negotiate moving furniture, time off work, etc. I was told that the buyers were mortgage approved.. not approved in principle.

If you get your jolly's by messing people around with closing dates of house sales well thats your business but I would hope that other people would not be so vindictive and understand that I am just worried about what is going on and would rather know now rather than later if the sale is going to go ahead.

I was not getting my jolly's. You started this thread saying you are sick and tired of your own voice on this subject. Imagine how the buyers feel.You agreed to sell them the house on 19th June. You have no reason to expect them to buy before that date. What I was trying to say to you, is that unless your house is very special, if I was the buyer, I would be thinking, "do I need this person hasseling me every week when I can simply buy a different house and probably save a few thousand Euro in the process."

gazzer · 05-06-2008 5:13pm

@ beeno67.. the point is that I havnt been hassling them every week. I didnt contact the solicitors or estate agents for 7 weeks after the booking deposit was down. I was happy for the process to play out and wait until the solicitor contacted me. It was only in the last 10 days that I have been ringing and at that it was only on 4 occasions.

The reason I only rang the first time 10 days ago is because the solicitor told me that the buyers were not mortgage approved and that I might want to consider putting the house back on the market. THATS when I started to stress out. I had thought that the couple were mortgage approved. I wouldnt have rang the estate agents at that time only I was told that news.

Then the estate agent told me that the mortgage pack would be with the solicitor in a matter of days (that was 8 days ago).I had put June 19th as the closing date as I felt at the time (8 weeks ago) that was enough time for the sale to proceed smoothly. It looks like that date wont be reached now. Anway Im sure it will all come good in the end. Its just I am very stressed about it but no doubt the buyers are too and I dont want to put any added pressure on them.

The reason I mentioned in my initial thread that I am sick of my own voice is because for the last 10 days (since the call from the solicitor) I seem to be having internal conversations in my head on an hourly basis e.g what if this goes wrong and what if that goes wrong

whereas up to 10 days ago I wasnt that stressed about it and was sure that things were going fine

Milk & Honey · 06-06-2008 9:07am

beeno67 wrote: »

You are probably getting confused between mortgage approval and approval in principal. They obviously had approval in principal. They do not have full mortgage approval as once they do the sale will be complete. The closing date is not until June 19th, they do not need full mortgage approval until this date. They would be mad to sign contracts before this date.

That is rubbish. The contract is normally signed well in advance of the closing date. It is only rarely signed at closing. Until an unconditional contract is signed the vendor cannot make plans. The purchaser may have had mortgage approval subject to life and fire insurance. they seem to have done nothing about life cover until know. It may be inexperience on their part. The Estate Agent should have known better. It may take weeks for the life cover to be arranged. The building societies are delaying the issue of loan cheques as much as possible. One thing to do at this stage is to look for the unsigned contracts back from the buyer and change them to make time of the essence. That way interest will run against them if they delay the closing, if, of course, they ever sign contracts!

gazzer · 17-06-2008 10:16am

Well Im back to stress out once more. Just got a call from the estate agent. The contracts were meant to be signed this week. The buyers rang the estate agent last week to ask me if the date could be extended as there was some small issues left to be finalised. Anyway I agreed to that on condition that they bring in a copy of their mortgage approval check list to the estate agents so that the estate agent could let me know exactly what the situation was as every week there seems to be some problem hindering the sale

The buyers came into the office this morning to say that their original broker left his job 4 weeks ago so they had to go with a different broker. This broker seemingly is not doing his job so they decided to apply for the mortgage themselves. They never mentioned any of this over the last 9 weeks. They have got mortgage approval (in principal) with the new bank but for 10 grand less than the price they originally agreed to pay.

No I have to decide what to do. Part of me wants to stop the sale as I have been messed around so much over the last 9 weeks that it is just not funny. I dont know who to believe anymore when I am getting told information. Im prepared to take the 10 grand less.

Another part of me wants to proceed as the buyers still want to buy(well so they say) and I just want to get the sale over and done with.

I am also inclined to take the house off the market and see if I can rent it out. I dont really want to be a landlord but I might have no choice as I have to leave Dublin in a months time.

Anybody (buyers, sellers, landlords) any advice?

Thanks

mkdon05 · 17-06-2008 10:34am

I reckon thats a sneaky ploy by the buyers to gazzunder you. They probably know that you are stressed and just want the sale to go through. Personally I would tell them to come up with the full agreed selling price or go and shove it up their hole. Then depending on the monthly mortgage repayments i would rent the house out for that amount plus maybe €50 - €100 extra to cover costs of a tax return for rental income.

In the end you will always have an asset here. In the longterm this asset will rise in price!

Climate Expert · 17-06-2008 10:35am

gazzer wrote: »

Well Im back to stress out once more. Just got a call from the estate agent. The contracts were meant to be signed this week. The buyers rang the estate agent last week to ask me if the date could be extended as there was some small issues left to be finalised. Anyway I agreed to that on condition that they bring in a copy of their mortgage approval check list to the estate agents so that the estate agent could let me know exactly what the situation was as every week there seems to be some problem hindering the sale

The buyers came into the office this morning to say that their original broker left his job 4 weeks ago so they had to go with a different broker. This broker seemingly is not doing his job so they decided to apply for the mortgage themselves. They never mentioned any of this over the last 9 weeks. They have got mortgage approval (in principal) with the new bank but for 10 grand less than the price they originally agreed to pay.

No I have to decide what to do. Part of me wants to stop the sale as I have been messed around so much over the last 9 weeks that it is just not funny. I dont know who to believe anymore when I am getting told information. Im prepared to take the 10 grand less.

Another part of me wants to proceed as the buyers still want to buy(well so they say) and I just want to get the sale over and done with.

I am also inclined to take the house off the market and see if I can rent it out. I dont really want to be a landlord but I might have no choice as I have to leave Dublin in a months time.

Anybody (buyers, sellers, landlords) any advice?

Thanks

You've been played.
Cut your losses and sell for 10k less but put dead animals in between the brickwork.

Then depending on the monthly mortgage repayments i would rent the house out for that amount plus maybe €50 - €100 extra to cover costs of a tax return for rental income.

Terrible idea. So just to save face why not lose more money as your house devalues.
And a landlord doesn't decide the rental price like that, the market does.

gazzer · 17-06-2008 10:41am

Cut your losses and sell for 10k less but put dead animals in between the brickwork.

LOL.. That cheered me up. Thanks for that

IF I was to decide to rent I would advertise it at 100 euro a month less than houses in my area are going for(approx 1300 a month) so hopefully that would generate interest. I just dont think I am cut out to be a landlord though. I never thought of the gazzundering theory. That could well be what they are doing.

davidoco · 17-06-2008 11:08am

gazzer wrote: »

I never thought of the gazzundering theory. That could well be what they are doing.

The buyers probably didn't start out thinking about gazzundering you but they have been reading threads all over the internet about agreeing a purchase, getting the survey done, and then offering less.

Also it is very likely that the bank have adjusted their lending policy and so are offering less to the buyers, no maybe thank your lucky stars that it's not more than 10k.

mkdon05 · 17-06-2008 11:15am

Climate Expert wrote: »

Terrible idea. So just to save face why not lose more money as your house devalues.

The house may devalue in the next 3-5 years, but will rise in the long term 5-10 years. Hence me saying "In the longterm this asset will rise in price" :rolleyes:

Also how is she losing if someone else is paying the majority of her mortgage while renting??

gazzer · 17-06-2008 11:16am

I will have to check out how much I am going to have to pay to the Estate Agents and Solicitor if I do decide to take the house of the market and rent it out as I havnt a clue what the charges are from them if you dont complete the sale.

Climate Expert · 17-06-2008 11:19am

The house may devalue in the next 3-5 years, but will rise in the long term 5-10 years.

You don't know that. In any case if a house loses 40% in 4 years its better to offload now and then buy back at the bottom.
House prices track inflation over the long term and by that I mean 50-100 years.

mkdon05 · 17-06-2008 11:26am

Climate Expert wrote: »

You don't know that. In any case if a house loses 40% in 4 years its better to offload now and then buy back at the bottom.
House prices track inflation over the long term and by that I mean 50-100 years.

Thats how the housing market works, Research the Netherlands and Finlands housing bubbles.

50-100 years is a load of rubbish, climate expert me eye-ball!

ionapaul · 17-06-2008 12:00pm

5 years isn't the longterm, to be fair. I'll eat my hat if most house prices in Ireland are higher in 5 years than they are today, that would amaze me, IMHO we're only at the start of house price declines, not at the end like all the VIs would have us believe (of course, they predicted the bubble to go on inflating forever and after every month of declines said the worst is over, so why do people still listen to them? bizarre)

Climate Expert · 17-06-2008 12:10pm

mkdon05 wrote: »

Thats how the housing market works, Research the Netherlands and Finlands housing bubbles.

50-100 years is a load of rubbish, climate expert me eye-ball!

You seem fairly clueless so I hope for your never get into property speculation.

I bought a house in 1989 in England. Its 2001 and my property is the same value after 12 years.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b0/Graph-house-prices-1975-2006.gif

Or maybe if you bought your house in Japan arond 1990. 15 years later and your house is worth half of what you paid.

Jo King · 17-06-2008 12:27pm

It is likely that your estate agent is on a no sale no fee arrangement. If you dispense with his services you will be liable only for the outlay on advertising. It has been obvious since the beginning of the thread that your were being told a lot of nonsense. Your solicitor was correct. If you take that kind of nonsense form estate agents what are you likely to accept from tenants. renting out your house would expose you to ongoing stress, which, it appears to me, you are ill equipped to deal with.
I see your choice as between:-
1.Calling your purchasers bluff and putting the house back on the market if they back out and
2. Accepting a lower price for the house from them.

If you go for option 2 you will be showing them weakness which they will have no hesitation in exploiting fully and demanding even more concessions.

I think therefore you should go with option 1 which is what your solicitor advised weeks ago.

gazzer · 17-06-2008 12:34pm

@ Jo King. Thanks for the reply. Think you are right about me not being able to handle the stress. Im usually very easy going but this situation has certainly tested me.

As regards putting the house back on the market. It is definately an option and one which I am considering but I know 2 people who both have their houses on the market in the same estate for over 2 months and have had not one viewing. In that time they have reduced their price to below what my original sale price was and still no viewing.

If I did put my house back on the market I would have to price it lower than the other 2 houses. This would mean the house would be priced lower than the new offer from the buyers and if there were no viewings I couldnt afford to have the house on the market for months on end and having to pay a mortgage on it and also rent on the new place I will be living in when I move out of Dublin. I would be financially stretched to the limit.

If I do go with the buyers new offer and they tried to get me to reduce it even further I would definately pull the house from the sale.

Thanks again.

Jo King · 17-06-2008 12:40pm

Your house is effectively back on the market. Your purchasers have not entered a binding contract. If they have mortgage approval do you not think they are going to play every seller in your estate off each other? You could ask them to make a final bid on the basis that you want a contract signed within 48 hours or you are withdrawing. You are going to be played like a fish otherwise.

mkdon05 · 17-06-2008 1:05pm

Climate Expert wrote: »

You seem fairly clueless so I hope for your never get into property speculation.

I bought a house in 1989 in England. Its 2001 and my property is the same value after 12 years.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b0/Graph-house-prices-1975-2006.gif

Or maybe if you bought your house in Japan arond 1990. 15 years later and your house is worth half of what you paid.

1989-2001 is not 50 years!

And a year or 2 after 2001 it was worth a good bit more!!

Sorry OP gone a bit OT

Climate Expert · 17-06-2008 1:27pm

1989-2001 is not 50 years!

So, whats your point?
You said that houseprices will always rise after 5-10 years. Thats rubbish advice and I've just pointed it out.

House prices have historically tracked inflation in the long term ie- 50-100 years any less and that assumption may be invalid.

gazzer · 17-06-2008 2:00pm

If they have mortgage approval do you not think they are going to play every seller in your estate off each other? You could ask them to make a final bid on the basis that you want a contract signed within 48 hours

Can I ask them to sign the contracts before the loan cheque issues though? I thought that the buyers would have to have the funds from the bank before they could sign?

Stressed out over house sale

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