Theoretical physics at trinity

raah! · 05-04-2008 11:50pm #1

I have theoretical physics as my first choice on my CAO and, my points for the pres were more than enough, so it seems that if I don't change my course choice, I will be doing TP. (and since it seems that the only other topics on tp are 3 years old, I thought i would make a new one... since there may have been changes)

I was wondering if any TP students here can tell me what the course is like. I have heard that it is really hard, and i was wondering if I would be better off just doing maths or just physics, because I would like to do more than just work in college.

Zoodlebop · 05-04-2008 11:55pm

Well, I'm not actually a TP, but from what I see, they are some of the hardest workers in college; at least some of them! I'm doing Physics (through Nat. Sci. TR071 or something) and I love the course. Which are you more into, maths or physics?

raah! · 06-04-2008 12:02am

It's fairly equal, and that's why i chose theoretical physics, I wouldn't mind doing all maths, but then I feel i would be excluded from things like scientific discussions and the like. What is the work load for regular physics like ?

Zoodlebop · 06-04-2008 12:11am

It's grand really. You have a lab report to do every week. If you're really serious, then you probably should consolidate everything you do in lectures. I guess it's really pretty easy if you've any knack for physics. I'm a serial coaster, and coasted right through 1st year, grand. Not that I'm recommending it. And you can't really do the same in 2nd year. I was working my butt of for Schols (you may have heard of them) all last term, and I really enjoyed the work. If you enjoy the subject, the workload is no bother.

When doing physics like I do, you also do a maths course which is far more geared towards problem solving and applications. The TP math course is probably much better, but too "theoretical" for me. I'm an applied maths man. The thing with my route is that you also have to do another Science subject for the first two years. I've come to hate the ones I've done, Chem and Geology (ewwww).

raah! · 06-04-2008 12:14am

Thank you this is very helpful information indeed, at the start of the year i was all for putting in the extra work, but now during the leaving cert I am just sick of all the work and what have you.

Do you have any idea what the workload for tp is with respect to the leaving cert levels of work (for .... say a 540+ leaving)

Podge_irl · 06-04-2008 1:35am

First off, TP is very difficult but emminently do-able. I didn't kill myself working in first year, did all my assignments (usually weekly homeworks in one or two maths courses) and my lab reports etc. I and my classmates definitely do more than just work (and I'm in fourth year). However, no matter how well you do at maths in school do not expect it to be easy. You will be confused at times - especially in first year. The physics courses are generally little more than an expansion of the LC course in first year, but the maths courses are going to be like nothing you've seen before. You will be doing very abstract maths, with likely little idea as to how its relevant (we spent all of first term in one maths course defining what exactly numbers are and then proving that 1+1 does in fact equal 2). This will be difficult at first and something of a shock to the system, but if you stick with it it is rewarding.

If you are interested in both maths and physics then TP is definitely the course for you anyway. You can change into physics up until the start of 4th year and into maths (which a lot of people did in my year) until the start of 3rd year. You get a great idea of what both courses involve and can make a more informed decision down the line. The downside is that your workload in first year will be quite high, lecture wise if nothing else. I had 7 hours straight of lectures on Tuesdays in first year, which was fairly horrible.

As regards the workload compared to the LC, its impossible to compare tbh. Some people will struggle and need to work more, some will need to work less. The majority of people in TP will have gotten A1s in maths and physics, but there are people who got Bs in both who do better then them. Some people simply adapt better to college then others. College in general is different and the maths courses you'll be taking are nothing like what you've been doing to this point so its anyone's guess how much work you will need to put in to do well in them.

If/when you start the course, just bear in mind that most if not everyone struggles initially. It'll be tough and confusing, but things will get better.

Podge_irl · 06-04-2008 1:41am

As an addendum to that actually, its perfectly possible, if not in some ways preferable, to become a theoretical physicist by just taking the mathematics option. The physics courses are generally geared more towards the experimentalists with us just thrown in. The maths dept is more a theoretical physics dept these days (the head of the school and several lecturers are string theorists). The likes of general relativity and quantum field theory are taught by the Maths dept. There are courses on the maths curriculum that would be advantageous to us but we don't take due to time constraints and the fact we have half our courses given by the physics dept. You'd be free to do them with the maths degree, which is why many people switched over.

That said though, like I mentioned above, you have the ability to switch over to either physics or maths from TP so if you're not certain then its the perfect way to begin.

Fremen · 06-04-2008 1:52am

TP's not a bad choice as a CAO subject. I did it UCD, but ended up changing to maths and computer science.
First year will involve a lot stuff you would have seen in applied maths in school. You'll learn calculus again from first principles, and go through it a bit more rigorously than LC. You'll cover a lot of stuff about matrices, too.

Be aware that you do need to work at it. Your mates may be going off drinking on student nights during the week, but you will have to commit to going to all your lectures if you want to do well, or even keep your head above water.

It won't be a trivial course, but in four years' time you'll look back and be amazed at how far you've come.

raah! · 06-04-2008 6:49pm

good stuff! It seems that theoretical physics will remain my first choice . (unless maths and philosophy suddenly jump ahead.. but that's a different matter altogether)

Podge_irl · 06-04-2008 8:12pm

raah! wrote: »

good stuff! It seems that theoretical physics will remain my first choice . (unless maths and philosophy suddenly jump ahead.. but that's a different matter altogether)

We had someone in our year go from Maths and Philosophy to TP half-way through first year, and then into pure Maths in second year. Kinda roundabout way for him to do it.

raah! · 06-04-2008 9:43pm

Hmm, I'd like to know what he thougth of the maths+philosophy course. But I don't want half a maths degree for the sake of half of nothing (a philosophy degree

)

Podge_irl · 07-04-2008 12:24am

To be honest, I'm not fantastically impressed with the TSM maths options. You can't take any of the interesting theoretical physics courses because you simply lack the necessary background knowledge. Something like Maths & Economics I can see the point, but you'll essentially end up with a pretty useless set of knowledge from the TSM Maths. The material you cover in first year Maths is covered over the first two years in TSM, but little of it is interesting in and of itself, its just used in all the more advanced subjects. Bear in mind however, that I see maths as little more than a tool to do physics and don't find much interest in the subject in and of itself.

Richard W · 07-04-2008 1:52pm

raah! wrote: »

Hmm, I'd like to know what he thougth of the maths+philosophy course. But I don't want half a maths degree for the sake of half of nothing (a philosophy degree )

TSM courses aren't the best. Yeah you're kinda doing half of each degree. The only one that'd be worthwhile I think is Maths and Economics.

Also from a social point of view, you'll be in with a totally different crowd when you hit second year. Pretty hard to maintain friendships that way, unless you wanna be friends with other tsm'ers, but to be honest, they're all freaks :pac:

Edit: Come to think of it, TP's are freaks too. Just save yourself a lot of time and hop on into maths with all the cool kids.

raah! · 07-04-2008 4:45pm

But the pure physics people say that maths are freaks!!

What to do!!

heh, well that is very helpful actually, I'm gonna take the tsm off of my cao now, and put on just maths instead.

cookiemonst3r · 07-04-2008 4:46pm

You shouldn't really use last year's CAO points as any indication of the points you might need for this year. I think 2years ago the points were something like 490 so I was like sure if I get 500 I'll be grand. The points ended up at 530 points. So I think just do the best you can without killing yourself and you'll be fine.

And yeah I'm in first yr TP if you have any other questions about the course. I think they changed the course just this yr (or else last yr). We take 3 topics in maths and they last the whole year. It's VERY different from Leaving Cert maths. Like completely different. And we take a couple of different things in physics, Special Relativity, Waves, electromagnetic interactions...I'm sure that stuff is in the prospectus. We have about 21 hours a week including tutorials but homework assignments can take up a lot of time.

And for the record...TP is sooo much better than maths

:D:cool:

raah! · 07-04-2008 8:29pm

Ah, very good! What is 21 hours like compared to other courses? do you still have time to do stuff like join societies and all that if you want to?

And here's another rather silly question, which is the better theoretical physics trinity or ucd? (I've heard somewhere that trinity is mostly an arts university so there is a chance ucd may have a better TP)

And, not to sound liek a dork, but I am very much looking forward to this new type of maths, defining numbers and what not. I've always found it fascinating how we went from cavemen counting things to where we are now.

EyesLeft · 07-04-2008 9:31pm

I did tp about 7 years ago and i lurk here from time to time when i am feeling nostalgic and i just wanted to say that there is no comparison between the ucd and tcd maths and tp degree's; either in terms of what is covered, tcd's is much better, or in terms of the departments, simply, tcd has people in the department who are known internationally and ucd doesn't, that was true when i was around and it is much more true now.

cookiemonst3r · 07-04-2008 9:43pm

The TP degree has changed loads though in the last couple of years. I remember someone who had done TP a while back told me he had 21 hours of just maths!! along with however many hours of physics he also had.

21 hours is not so bad. That's less hours than secondary school if you want to compare it to something. and yes of course you have time to join societies!! Just because you're in college doesn't mean you don't get to have a social life!

Podge_irl · 07-04-2008 11:46pm

cookiemonst3r wrote: »

The TP degree has changed loads though in the last couple of years. I remember someone who had done TP a while back told me he had 21 hours of just maths!! along with however many hours of physics he also had.

I had 18 hours of maths in first year and 9 or 10 hours of physics (including the aforementioned 7 hours in a row on tuesdays).

And here's another rather silly question, which is the better theoretical physics trinity or ucd?

My horribly biased and obviously partially uninformed opinion would be Trinity. The maths content taught here is a lot more in depth (though its harder as well obviously).

Richard W · 08-04-2008 6:28pm

raah! wrote: »

But the pure physics people say that maths are freaks!!

Those physics freaks would say that. Take it from me, we're way cooler.

raah! wrote: »

Ah, very good! What is 21 hours like compared to other courses? do you still have time to do stuff like join societies and all that if you want to?

And here's another rather silly question, which is the better theoretical physics trinity or ucd? (I've heard somewhere that trinity is mostly an arts university so there is a chance ucd may have a better TP)

And, not to sound liek a dork, but I am very much looking forward to this new type of maths, defining numbers and what not. I've always found it fascinating how we went from cavemen counting things to where we are now.

In our year we had one guy move from ucd tp to tcd tp after first year. He says trinity is far better, but that might be for social reasons, as there's more people in our class, and we'd go out a lot more.

What I found the worst about TP, was the lab reports. I sort of didn't really do any up til January of first year, which was a bit **** on my part. I suppose the main reason I moved to maths was cause it was easier than doing those lab reports. At the time I only had to take up one extra subject, but I'm fairly certain it's different now. They're taking a lot of the maths out of TP which is ****, and I hear some of the harder physics courses (which are taught by the maths department) are to be taught by the physics department, which is also ****, as they're not good with maths apparently, and those courses like Quantum Mechanics and Differential geometry and general relativity are very maths based. You'd wanna ask Podge really, he'd know more than me.

raah! · 08-04-2008 7:20pm

Well that is certainly a shame about the maths, but it's still more maths than experimental physics, so I shall leave TP main choice

See you next year gentlemen! (probably)

Podge_irl · 09-04-2008 2:19pm

Richard W wrote: »

What I found the worst about TP, was the lab reports. I sort of didn't really do any up til January of first year, which was a bit **** on my part. I suppose the main reason I moved to maths was cause it was easier than doing those lab reports. At the time I only had to take up one extra subject, but I'm fairly certain it's different now. They're taking a lot of the maths out of TP which is ****, and I hear some of the harder physics courses (which are taught by the maths department) are to be taught by the physics department, which is also ****, as they're not good with maths apparently, and those courses like Quantum Mechanics and Differential geometry and general relativity are very maths based. You'd wanna ask Podge really, he'd know more than me.

Lab reports are a pain in the ass in first year, but they get better.

There were moves to give one or two of the courses taught by the maths dept to the physics dept, but I don't think it came to anything. They're trying to streamline the TP degree rather then take some of the maths out of it, we were covering some unnecessary stuff and missing out on some helpful stuff. The more advanced courses such as quantum field theory and general relativity are very maths based and require almost all of the material you will cover in the first three years (which is cool) so they won't be taking any major chunks out of whats covered maths-wise. The TP degree will still be heavily maths-based - there isn't any other way to do theoretical physics!

flint_72 · 18-06-2008 12:55pm

Hay,Im also thinking of doing TP in Trinity next year. thanks so far for everything yeve said,its all a great help. you say taht the Maths is compleately different from LC Maths,bu I do LC Applied Maths too,is it anything like that?

Also,hay Rahh,ur about the only other person I have heard of who wants this course :P. wonder how many therell be!?

Another thing,u say theres about 21 hrs of classes a week,n then homework.how much of that? like,as Rahh said,im so sick of workin all day every day!! and gettin up early every weekend too! would i b doin 4hrs of homework a day? that'd add to about 8hrs total a day.

Finally,the guy who said u did T.Physics 7 years ago,what kinda work do u do now? and what are u hopin 2 do Podge? (if u dont mind me askin)

Podge_irl · 18-06-2008 5:11pm

flint_72 wrote: »

Hay,Im also thinking of doing TP in Trinity next year. thanks so far for everything yeve said,its all a great help. you say taht the Maths is compleately different from LC Maths,bu I do LC Applied Maths too,is it anything like that?

Nope, bar one course which is similar enough for the first while (Mechanics), but the entire thing is a departure from how you approach maths at the moment.

wonder how many therell be!?

35 more than likely, though there will probably be a highish drop-out rate.

Another thing,u say theres about 21 hrs of classes a week,n then homework.how much of that? like,as Rahh said,im so sick of workin all day every day!! and gettin up early every weekend too! would i b doin 4hrs of homework a day? that'd add to about 8hrs total a day.

I had 30 hours or lectures/labs a week in first year, but I think there are fewer now. You won't get much in the way of "homework" - maybe weekly/fortnightly assignments in mechanics and the odd assignment elsewhere. Its all perfectly doable, you will have a number of hours of breaks between lectures during which you can study to leave your evenings and weekends largely free. It will be difficult for the first while obviously, but you'll adjust to it and get through stuff quicker after a short time.

and what are u hopin 2 do Podge?

I'm heading off to do a masters as a precursor to doing a PhD. Generally speaking in my year people are either going into further study or into some kind of financial maths area. There are other options available though.

raah! · 20-06-2008 12:23pm

flint_72 wrote: »

Hay,Im also thinking of doing TP in Trinity next year. thanks so far for everything yeve said,its all a great help. you say taht the Maths is compleately different from LC Maths,bu I do LC Applied Maths too,is it anything like that?

Also,hay Rahh,ur about the only other person I have heard of who wants this course :P. wonder how many therell be!?

Another thing,u say theres about 21 hrs of classes a week,n then homework.how much of that? like,as Rahh said,im so sick of workin all day every day!! and gettin up early every weekend too! would i b doin 4hrs of homework a day? that'd add to about 8hrs total a day.

Finally,the guy who said u did T.Physics 7 years ago,what kinda work do u do now? and what are u hopin 2 do Podge? (if u dont mind me askin)

Hullo, hopefully I will see you next year!. As far as I know there is one other person doing TP who is also posting on boards, look in the leaving cert section, and then the topic on cao

Decerto · 20-06-2008 8:17pm

Theres quite a few on boards going for TP i think, me included, really anxious about it though pointswise, apparently last year it was 500 but some people getting 500 didnt get it. And from reading this thread im even more set on the course. i hope there isnt that much competition.
You said there was a high drop rate and someone transfered from ucd to trinity? how did he/she do this did he have to pay anything or why didnt he go to trinity in the first place?
Coz i have trinity as choice 1 and ucd as choice 2 and if i miss out on trinity ill end up in ucd, so could i end up going to trinity for year 2?

Also does anyone in ur year get internships in CERN or anything during the summer, i seen something on ucd website about it

CrunchyMask · 22-06-2008 9:10pm

Hey,

not sure what UCD are offering, but as far as I'm aware, since Ireland isn't part of CERN, we don't get the offer of summer work there. Parabolically related (ho-ho!), a few years ago, four TPs got to go to ESA.

Also, don't know the TP who changed from UCD to TCD personally, but from what I heard, he moved because they were getting rid of the pure maths courses for TPs over there and putting them into science maths instead; so, I doubt you could move over without some sort of legitimate reason (it would be quite a slap in the face otherwise, no?).

As regards drop-out/transfers, I'm in 2nd year, and in the beginning of 1st year there were around 40 but now there are 30ish. That might look ominous (and there will be more this summer, as some people will transfer to maths) but I'm pretty sure that this transfer rate isn't especially high for college courses and also a fair few people move over to maths. Also, over half of those who left were gone in the first month or so, to other courses, found college life wasn't for them or wanted to take a year out, etc. Hopefully that takes some of the quakes out of the high-dropout tale.

And finally, can't be definite on this, but last year the points were set at around 530ish on the CAO I think, but on the second round the requirement was 460ish (at least, that's what the TCD Open day 2007 material was saying). Hopefully that's correct information and will calm you somewhat.

dan719 · 23-06-2008 3:34am

cookiemonst3r wrote: »

And yeah I'm in first yr TP if you have any other questions about the course. I think they changed the course just this yr (or else last yr). We take 3 topics in maths and they last the whole year. It's VERY different from Leaving Cert maths. Like completely different. And we take a couple of different things in physics, Special Relativity, Waves, electromagnetic interactions...I'm sure that stuff is in the prospectus. We have about 21 hours a week including tutorials but homework assignments can take up a lot of time.

And for the record...TP is sooo much better than maths :D:cool:

Debbie doesn't have a clue what she is talking about, ignore her, Yann Sweeney JF TP says ' TP is hard work but rewarding, actually it's not that much hard work, when Mandelbrot is your third cousin,maths is actually pretty handy, they're afraid to fail me in case he gets really mad and refuses
to come next year' Note Yann Sweeney did not say any of the above, he did however say the following...
'I think we should assasinate Mugabe, and keep keep on assasinating his replacements until they get the message.....' Yann is a Nazi.

Goosewad · 14-07-2008 10:10am

This is probably way out of date for you now but I thought I'd add some perspective on the TSM maths thing... I do maths and philosophy. TSM maths students are kind of screwed over by the maths department. They've been making changes every year and you never really know what subjects you're going to be doing or what you'll be allowed choose for the next year. The maths department are trying to improve it though, we just seem to have come at an annoying time, it's become especially confusing with the introduction of the credit system like UCD, for example, I did 3 subjects this year for maths and found out halfway through the year that if I wanted to do maths for my final year I should have been doing 4. I was fairly pissed off!

You do feel with TSM maths that there are gaping holes in your knowledge at the end of it all. In saying all that though, I loved maths. And... TSM maths is very managable, the failure rate in pure maths is very high (not so much for TP though, they're... different).

Just to put it out there, philosophy is cool! You get as much out of it as you're willing to put in (probably sounds cliched but it's true!). I'm a lazy wench and I've still done quite well which might seem like a waste of time but, I'm still glad I did philosophy. I was interested in doing TP too before college but I was really put off by the amount of work it involved... So, maths and philosophy was a good choice in that sense! Plenty of free time

Theoretical physics at trinity

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