Firebird Super Q Boiler

jasonh · 14-03-2008 10:22am #1

Can anyone tell me exactly where the bleed screw is on this type of boiler?

I have the cover off the pump, and I can see the big red restart button.
Where is the bleed screw in comparison to that?
I believe its an allen screw, there is one facing me, below the red button to the left of it. I've loosened that one, but no oil is coming out

I know there is oil in it, as i've just had the tank filled.
In fact this is where the problem began.
the tank was empty and locked out. So the oil man came and filled it up and my wife asked him to bleed it to get it out of lock out.
He moaned and said that they don't really do this anymore, but he still had a go. Now when I got home from work, it was still locked out. So I took the cover off and hit the restart button and it fired up no problem. Then a day later I noticed the place still really stunk of kerosene, so i check the boiler and noticed that the copper pipe coming from the oil tank into the boiler was leaking slightly. I presumed the oilman had tried to bleed it by unscrewing the nut on this pipe and then didn't tighten it properly, instead of using the bleed screw.
So now i've tightened this the nut on the pipe so now its stopped dripping, but now it won't fire up when I hit the restart button.
I've tried the restart button a good few times. I thought I located the bleed screw, but when i loosen that no oil or air comes out.

Sorry for the long story - can anyone help?

I was thinking of loosening that nut on the incoming copper pipe again, so it drips, hopefully this will get rid of the air lock. Then fire it up like that and while the boiler is chugging along, tighten the nut up.

thanks in advance

Jason

azzeretti · 14-03-2008 11:56am

Its tricky to explain.....on the left hand side, where the oil tube is, on the unit, there is a small Allen Key "hole?". If you can find it, this is where you bleed it. Once you see it, you'll know what I mean. Sorry I can't be more specific, its hard to explain.!

jasonh · 14-03-2008 12:30pm

So when you are looking at it in front of you - its not alen screw that is looking straight at you, its on the left hand side of the pump is it? Is it the only alen screw on that left hand side of the pump.

I'm having to do this from memory now, as i'm at work, but I thought the oil tube goes in underneath - maybe i'm wrong.

you would think that firebird would have a user friendly page explaining in detail on how to bleed the feckin thing! The manual is completely useless! Looking at the diagram on page 15 its really hard to work out where the bleed screw is, is that a side on view or a front view or what!

J

JamesM · 14-03-2008 9:44pm

Firebird is the boiler. The burner is probably Riello, either a G3 or RDB. What you have described is probably a RDB. I think that the pump is on the other side on a Bentone. Do not turn a screw that is easy to move - it is an adjustment.
Jim.

Ines · 15-03-2008 3:19pm

Hi Guys,

I'm sitting here with the same problem... Don't fancy seeing my next ESB bill, I'm keeping warm with fan heaters.

Can anyone help me finding the bleeding screw if I e-mail a photo of my firefbird/RBL burner ??? I'm worried I'll blow it all up if I keep pressing the restart button and unscrew anythin I can find...

Hope to hear from you soon !¨!

INES

JamesM · 15-03-2008 10:20pm

Ines wrote: »

Hi Guys,

I'm sitting here with the same problem... Don't fancy seeing my next ESB bill, I'm keeping warm with fan heaters.

Can anyone help me finding the bleeding screw if I e-mail a photo of my firefbird/RBL burner ??? I'm worried I'll blow it all up if I keep pressing the restart button and unscrew anythin I can find...

Hope to hear from you soon !¨!

INES

I'm afraid that if you're "unscrewing anything you can", you will have turned the oil pressure adjusting screw and messed everything up.
Call in an expert

Jim.

Ines · 15-03-2008 11:34pm

Hi James,

was just joking, I didn't go nuts on the screws...

Although there was one which could be turned/loosened by a screwdriver.
Please don't tell me that was the very one you were talking about ???
(That was one I've tried, plus one next to it, where you need those special tools, hexagon shaped. Didn't touch anything else....)

So can you let me know where the correct one is to bleed the system ??

Thanks,

INES

JamesM · 16-03-2008 12:04am

Ines wrote: »

Hi James,

was just joking, I didn't go nuts on the screws...
Although there was one which could be turned/loosened by a screwdriver.
Please don't tell me that was the very one you were talking about ???
(That was one I've tried, plus one next to it, where you need those special tools, hexagon shaped. Didn't touch anything else....)

So can you let me know where the correct one is to bleed the system ??

Thanks,

INES

Sounds like a RDB The screw that you can turn easily is the one you must not touch :eek: I think that if you screw it in fully and bring it out about 10 half turns, that might be about right. there is a sort of cone shape to the screw. The cone should be starting to disappear into the hole most of it should be out.
The allen screw below it is one of the ones to open. There is also one around the corner to the left - that one should do the trick.
Jim.

Ines · 16-03-2008 6:03pm

Hi Jim,

thanks so much for your help !!
I'm so busy today, can't really look after the burner now..
You're right about the cone-shaped screw, I'll better get that sorted.

But not sure about the bleeding one, would you like a photo of my burner ?? Gotta go, a bit in a hurry, hopefully I'll get it sorted soon

THANKS A MILLION,

Ines

EoC · 27-03-2008 8:08pm

Hello,
I just had this issue and solved it. I'm not savvy at all about these things but I spoke to a guy at Firebird and he helped me out.

Firstly just to clarify for us dunces (me included).
The Super Q 90/120 is made by Firebird but the burner is made by a company called Riello. My model is G5X so I'm talking about that one.

Please see attached file of what I did.

I hope this helps other..

Note: Don't mess with the Black screw. The allen key does nothing. If when you open the gold/silver screw nothing comes out you might have to disconnect the pipe and do some sucking...

Regards EoC

JamesM · 27-03-2008 11:51pm

The correct allen screw for bleeding the burner is just around the corner to the left of the white box where "Do not touch this screw" is written. (Unless it is a very old burner) The port the black arrow points to is for the oil pressure gauge. In early models, it is also used for bleeding.
If you had to disconnect the oil line, and had trouble getting oil through, then, either the tank is not high enough or you only got a very small quantity of oil. There certainly should be no sucking involved. A blocked oil filter, or half closed fire valve, or kinked oil line might be another answer.
Jim.

EoC · 28-03-2008 12:17pm

All I can say is that it worked for me.
I couldn't be more explicit than giving the drawing/picture
Maybe James should give a reply explaining the other way.
Regards EoC

JamesM · 28-03-2008 4:03pm

EoC wrote: »

All I can say is that it worked for me.
I couldn't be more explicit than giving the drawing/picture
I think James is confusing people. Instead of trying to explain it can you produce a picture like I did for other burners...
Regards EoC

I don't want to be criticising you, but in most cases it is a simple job if you have a set of allen keys. You just loosen the one allen screw that I described in your photo - the air bubles out - and you tighten it again.
You have rounded off the plug for the oil pressure gauge by using something like a pliers, instead of a spanner - if you keep using this tool, you will not be able to open the plug someday. If you remove the plug as you recomend, you may loose the washer, which very often drops to the ground without people noticing - then you have a leak that won't stop no matter how much you tighten it. Also if there is a full tank of oil, there will be quite a flow from there once the air has cleared. If you do not have an allen key and you loosen this plug, you should not take it out fully.
Also in most cases, you do not need to take off the oil line - and certainly not suck it.

The green arrow shows the correct allen screw for bleeding an airlock.

EoC · 29-03-2008 11:01pm

Hello,
Thats great as I didn't know there was one there.
Good to have the feedback for JamesM.
I just think that Firebird should do this and not us.
Their information booklets are the most confusing booklets ever.
Thanks again for showing the other way.
Regards
EoC

JamesM · 30-03-2008 12:14am

Hi EoC,
I actually saw a 20 year old Riello today and it did not have that allen screw - it had to be bled as you described, but I would say any of the Riello oil pumps less that 15 years old has it. My green arrow is a bit crude, if you want to tidy it up, it could help some others.
Jim.

RevBlueJeans · 12-05-2008 10:13pm

Thanks EOC and other posters!

We had a lock out tonight and found the EOC's picture and comments excellent!

When we found the nut in question we put an empty chinese container underneath and waited it took about a minute of bubbling and hissing before the oil flowed clear. There was about 35ml in the container which we poured back into the tank.

Again many thanks!

Rev BJ

Jonny the Map · 23-05-2008 4:03pm

God I wish I had read this post yesterday. Was trying to bleed this boiler last night. Must have spent 2 hours at it. In the end took off the hose, filled an empty bottle of 7 up with water. Stuck the oil pipe into the top of the bottle just above were the water started. Taped it up so it was air tight and punctured the bottom of the bottle with a screwdriver. The water drained out, created a vacuum and sucked the oil through.

A lot of hassle but the wife was impressed!

Thanks for the pics, won't be doing the MacGyver on it again.

kennymat · 25-05-2008 2:58pm

Hi is there somone that can help me with firebired burner my biler back up and i got a new firebired but i dint know where the fule line go on it so is there somone that can show or tell me where thanks kennymat .

JamesM · 26-05-2008 12:36am

kennymat wrote: »

Hi is there somone that can help me with firebired burner my biler back up and i got a new firebired but i dint know where the fule line go on it so is there somone that can show or tell me where thanks kennymat .

https://us.v-cdn.net/6034073/uploads/attachments/51224/53450.jpg

See the oil line in this photo (pink arrow). Take out the inside plug under the oil pump and connect the oil line. The plug on the bottom of the oil pump, nearest the boiler.
Jim.

Oilrig · 29-05-2008 11:42pm

I've inherited one of these, its been stripped, cleaned and re-assembled.

How do I set it up regarding the correct nozzle, igniter position, airflow & oil pressure?

Diesel BTW.

JamesM · 30-05-2008 11:02am

Oilrig wrote: »

I've inherited one of these, its been stripped, cleaned and re-assembled.

How do I set it up regarding the correct nozzle, igniter position, airflow & oil pressure?

Diesel BTW.

You'll get the initial information here: http://www.rielloburners.co.uk/lumo/upload_documents/riello_TS0024UK02.pdf

For diesel, in most cases, you will need a .50 80 degree nozzle with quite high oil pressure. and an air setting of about 2.5 to 3.
Jim.

JBCFord · 30-05-2008 7:37pm

Since i installed this baby Tiger Loop Original have had no problem with running out of oil
[Run out of oil buck..... get more oil hit reset on the burner and away she goes]
Tiger Loop Original
http://www.tigerholm.com/

Oilrig · 30-05-2008 10:36pm

Thanks James, that'll get me sorted.

One last question, I cleaned out the boiler last year, fitted new baffles while I was at it. One disturbing result was that the thing sounds like a ships exhaust when it cuts in, the chimney noise level is embarrassing.

Would this have anything do do with the "sand" that I removed from the chimney elbow at the rear of the boiler?

JamesM · 31-05-2008 8:05pm

Oilrig wrote: »

Thanks James, that'll get me sorted.

One last question, I cleaned out the boiler last year, fitted new baffles while I was at it. One disturbing result was that the thing sounds like a ships exhaust when it cuts in, the chimney noise level is embarrassing.

Would this have anything do do with the "sand" that I removed from the chimney elbow at the rear of the boiler?

That sound is all to do with airflow. Are you sure that the baffles are the same size and fitted the same as before. If you cleared the elbow, you have changed the airflow - you had to clean it naturally. Is the elbow properly back in place ? - you will get that drone, if it has fallen off.
The last thing is the most difficult to do yourself - the air adjustment. When you change it the drone will ease off, but if you open or close the air adjustment too much you will have other problems. It could need an expert :eek::)
Jim.

Crozzo · 11-07-2008 2:08pm

TIP: I found that if have an air lock it easier to BLOW into the flexible oil tube as hard as you can rather than SUCKING the oil out. You'll hear the oil move in the pipe once you stop blowing. It may take a few strong blows but certainly doesn't taste as bad as sucking oil into your mouth by accident.

KP81 · 31-10-2008 7:01pm

Thanks JamesM, EoC,

That tip worked a treat. Loosening the gold nut got it going. One thing to add, the air only bled once the nut was loose if the reset button was pushed. Not sure if that's why the allen key bleed wasn't working for some people.

Cheers,

KP

d2b · 27-03-2009 6:33pm

EoC=Hero! A picture paints a thousand words!

EoC · 31-03-2009 11:42am

Believe it or not it happened to me again and I use the picture I posted. Good point by KP81 in that once you bleed using the nut press the Red button as this removed the air bubbles so I didn't have to suck on the pipe this time....so that's for the extra tip...Regards EoC

SarahHill · 31-03-2009 5:27pm

Hi All,

I ran out of oil, and have since had a delivery. My bolier will not fire up again, i've tried pussing the reset button twice as suggested with no luck.

I've also tried to bleed the air from it by removing the bleed screw using an allen key and the plug for the oil pressure gauge. Both times there was no hiss/bubbles or oil that came out.

I didn't want to try bleeding again whilst pushing the restart/reset button because of the damage this may cause. My boiler is a firebird oylmpic 50/65, the picture posted is exactly the same as mine.

Can anyone help, I've got a little girl who's desperately in need of a bath

.

Any advice would be really appreciated.

Sarah.

JamesM · 31-03-2009 6:49pm

SarahHill wrote: »

Hi All,

I ran out of oil, and have since had a delivery. My bolier will not fire up again, i've tried pussing the reset button twice as suggested with no luck.

I've also tried to bleed the air from it by removing the bleed screw using an allen key and the plug for the oil pressure gauge. Both times there was no hiss/bubbles or oil that came out.

I didn't want to try bleeding again whilst pushing the restart/reset button because of the damage this may cause. My boiler is a firebird oylmpic 50/65, the picture posted is exactly the same as mine.

Can anyone help, I've got a little girl who's desperately in need of a bath .

Any advice would be really appreciated.

Sarah.

You may not have filled the tank high enough to push the oil through.
Put the allen screw back in - tighten it. Then put the plug for the gauge back in, but leave it a bit loose. Then push the button. After a few goes the oil may come through. Never push the button with that plug out - you could get a jet of oil many feet from the burner :eek: You could maybe take out the burner and lower it as close to the ground as possible - then open the allen screw - do not turn on the burner when out of the boiler. Maybe also disconnect the oil line and hold it close to the ground. Make sure that the fire valve on the oil line close to the boiler is open - anticlockwise. On a fine day, are you sure that the little girl playing out in the back has not turned off the oil at the tank

- has happened many times.
Jim.

SarahHill · 01-04-2009 5:52pm

JamesM wrote: »

You may not have filled the tank high enough to push the oil through.
Put the allen screw back in - tighten it. Then put the plug for the gauge back in, but leave it a bit loose. Then push the button. After a few goes the oil may come through. Never push the button with that plug out - you could get a jet of oil many feet from the burner :eek: You could maybe take out the burner and lower it as close to the ground as possible - then open the allen screw - do not turn on the burner when out of the boiler. Maybe also disconnect the oil line and hold it close to the ground. Make sure that the fire valve on the oil line close to the boiler is open - anticlockwise. On a fine day, are you sure that the little girl playing out in the back has not turned off the oil at the tank - has happened many times.
Jim.

Hi JamesM,

Thanks for your advice, I've checked that the oil is open at the tank , and it seems to be flowing past what i think is the filter (silver box type thing attached to the oil line near the tank). I tried your tips but no luck, there is no oil flowing from the bleed screw or the plug.

I'm not sure how to take the burner out of the boiler to get at the flexi hose to undo it, the burner looks like its held onto a plate with a bolt, the plate is then attached to the bolier with another two bolts. I cant get under to undo the oil line as it is can you advise?

I'm alone with the littlen so even if i can get thing off and undone i'm not sure how to juggle turning the oil off at the tank if it starts flowing freely at the boiler, can you think off a way of getting around this which won't cause alot of mess?

Thanks again for your help,

Sarah.

murraymarmalade · 16-08-2009 3:10pm

to all the posters on this thread,thanks a million.for the information,i unscrewed the 'gold' coloured screw and turned on the heating which blew all the air bubbles and a few timble fulls of oil out.i then turned off the pump,put the screw back,turned on the pump and in 10 mins i had heating.thanks a million lads.

8ofSpades · 10-10-2009 6:41pm

Hi All

I'm having the same problem.
The burner is firing for about 10-15 seconds and the lock-out light comes on meaning no heating.

I have a firebird with a riello burner.
No model number but can get one if needed

I have opened the golden valve about 10 half turns.
I have also opened the connection on this valve and there was a steady drip of oil so i didnt go any further and tightened it again

I then opened what a think is a bolt for bleeding (see photo attached) and about a cap full of oil came out.
I then switched on the oil burner and pressed the reset button a few times. It sounded like it was burning but there was no oil coming out apart from the initial few drops

I put the bolt back in and tried firing a few more times but still no joy.

The tank has just been filled.
Its a 950 litre tank and took 830 litres to fill so it wasn't empty.
We have just moved in to this house tho.
The heating was working and then stopped before we got a fill

See pics attached

Anyone any ideas?

JamesM · 12-10-2009 9:11pm

Not the correct bolt. Try loosening the allen screw just above that one. Or loosen the whole hexagonal fitting that the allen screw is in.
Jim.

ghosttown · 19-10-2010 5:14pm

Thanks All, that's 2 years in a row this thread has gotten house warm again, will have to stop letting the oil run out over the summer !!

jubi lee · 23-10-2010 12:11pm

Can someone advise? I just got oil delivered, need to bleed my firebird/riello burner. loosened the gold allen bolt, pressed the reset button, started up, got a few frothy bubbles but barely any oil, then it shuts off.

How many times am I allowed to press the reset button? do i risk damaging it?

fanzhiyidan · 10-11-2010 10:25pm

Hi all,

just been trying to bleed the boiler in a friends house for the last 2 hours.
its a firebird popular 90 / 120.
i've bleed it a few times in the last couple of years without too much trouble.
however, this time there were only a few bubbles and maybe a couple of thimbles of oil.
the tank is about 15m away from the house.
he said that he tried to bleed it himself a couple of days ago and oil was p1ss1ng out. now there isn't any.
the tank is half full.
don't know what to do to get it going again.

anyone any ideas?

ntpm · 10-11-2010 11:20pm

jubi lee wrote: »

Can someone advise? I just got oil delivered, need to bleed my firebird/riello burner. loosened the gold allen bolt, pressed the reset button, started up, got a few frothy bubbles but barely any oil, then it shuts off.

How many times am I allowed to press the reset button? do i risk damaging it?

FANZYHIYIDAN

SEE JAMES M POST... you are opening the inlet to the pump. You need to vent the pump on the outlet side. Allen key.

The pump has to be running to vent it properly. Also I normally use special gauge and valve to vent.
You can vent it manually but be carefull as oil will squirt out under pressure as you press the reset button.

simonlincs · 02-12-2010 1:14am

Hi,

Had this boiler for 15 years plus, always been great, just had a new delivery of oil and their is now a leak from the black screw part of boiler, been fine for months, although I did undo it last time thinking it was the bleed value, but its been fine until tonight when a strong smell of oil and a patch on the floor.

what next?, can i just tighten it until it stops?
thanks
Simon

sfleming · 23-12-2010 8:05pm

Hi all I have read this thread and used the suggestions previously (thank you). Only this time it seems the system fires up ok after pushing the reset button it then runs fine for about 20-30 minutes going through 1 or 2 cycles then it locks out. I hit the reset button again and it runs for the same amount of time before locking out again. I have bled it already any suggestions?

Thanks
Simon

RevBlueJeans · 29-01-2011 1:36pm

Excellent thread. Locked out again today but got it going with the help of the photograph.

Feardorca · 29-01-2011 1:55pm

Cool Photo!! Great stuff

giannip · 07-04-2011 7:26pm

Does one have to unscrew the Allen bolt out completely?

Stovepipe · 31-05-2011 10:09am

Hi all,
Im in the same boat. I had it, my firebird 120, which looks like Eoc's picture, serviced after having run the tank dry and even tipped up the oil tank to get the last of the oil out (during the Big Snow last year). the filter was dirty but easily cleaned and the unit fired up after the service, but now, a day later, won't fire at all. I tried bleeding it with the allen screw but no joy.It was suggested that it might be the thermocouple?
regards
Stovepipe

Stovepipe · 05-06-2011 8:53pm

Hi all,
In the end, I had to have a new pump(Eu 100) fitted, as feeding it a diet of watery sludge from the bottom of the tank didn't help. I also managed to crack the tank(not fatally)by tipping it up.Stupid move there.Works fine now.
regards
Stovepipe

dowser · 16-12-2011 7:26pm

JamesM wrote: »

I don't want to be criticising you, but in most cases it is a simple job if you have a set of allen keys. You just loosen the one allen screw that I described in your photo - the air bubles out - and you tighten it again.
You have rounded off the plug for the oil pressure gauge by using something like a pliers, instead of a spanner - if you keep using this tool, you will not be able to open the plug someday. If you remove the plug as you recomend, you may loose the washer, which very often drops to the ground without people noticing - then you have a leak that won't stop no matter how much you tighten it. Also if there is a full tank of oil, there will be quite a flow from there once the air has cleared. If you do not have an allen key and you loosen this plug, you should not take it out fully.
Also in most cases, you do not need to take off the oil line - and certainly not suck it.

The green arrow shows the correct allen screw for bleeding an airlock.

Many thanks James - you just got a cold house with our 4 week old daughter in it getting warm again

Richard

Fiddlesnap · 15-10-2012 7:24pm

I've tried everything but the gold bolt which is locked stuck :-(
Might end up forking out for an expert :-(

Jack Russet · 08-12-2012 8:42pm

Hi there. I have a firebird boiler. It ran out of fuel. \tried pressing reset a few times before realising it was out of fuel. I have filled up and bled it as described. I have oil coming through but when you press reset it won't go. When the pump kicks in it sounds as if it is still getting air through but there is none when I bleed it. Any other suggestions?

Thanks

Dtp79 · 09-12-2012 11:21pm

Jack Russet wrote: »

Hi there. I have a firebird boiler. It ran out of fuel. \tried pressing reset a few times before realising it was out of fuel. I have filled up and bled it as described. I have oil coming through but when you press reset it won't go. When the pump kicks in it sounds as if it is still getting air through but there is none when I bleed it. Any other suggestions?

Thanks

When you press reset what happens?

GToucher · 09-01-2013 4:45pm

Guys,
I have similar problem..
Firebird 90-120 boiler
Run out of kero, filled tank but burner does not start.
Took off the cover, tried red button a few times. Checked filter- ok
Loose black screw (blue arrow on pic) with smaller one in it (picture attached ) --> start button. After 2-3 times oil started to come out and fire started for a couple of seconds. Repeated again and loosen screw more and it fell out with 2 springs and kinda thing... picture attached.
Pump was running for a few seconds. Assembled screw and springs tried to run again but not sure which end correct (pictures below). Nothing happened... Started at least 15 times- no fire...
Please help.

Billy Bunting · 09-01-2013 6:24pm

GToucher wrote: »

Guys,
I have similar problem..
Firebird 90-120 boiler
Run out of kero, filled tank but burner does not start.
Took off the cover, tried red button a few times. Checked filter- ok
Loose black screw (blue arrow on pic) with smaller one in it (picture attached ) --> start button. After 2-3 times oil started to come out and fire started for a couple of seconds. Repeated again and loosen screw more and it fell out with 2 springs and kinda thing... picture attached.
Pump was running for a few seconds. Assembled screw and springs tried to run again but not sure which end correct (pictures below). Nothing happened... Started at least 15 times- no fire...
Please help.

You now require an Oftc Engineer with a FGA to put right the total mess you have now made. www.oftec.e

Firebird Super Q Boiler

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