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conflict between beliefs and family weddings, funerals, etc..

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  • 20-02-2008 2:15am
    #1
    salfriz
    Registered Users Posts: 20 ✭


    Hi all, I just have a question for which i would appreciate any suggested resolutions. I was christened a catholic, raised a catholic and went to catholic schools. My family parents and siblings are all religious as in they attend church each sunday etc, although one of my brothers has told me he goes to avoid the hassle and arguements he'd have to endure if he didn't. I myself have no religous beliefs or practices whatsoever and have no interest in adopting any. Anyway, the problem is that at some time in the future a wedding, funeral, christening, etc will occur in my family and they may expect me to attend it. I will be forced to not attend and face the reactions of my family or attend the church services and stand up, kneel down, bow my head, join my hands, stand in que waiting for sacrements, profess or appear to profess a belief i do not share and resist the urge to argue with the priest. I don't wish to offend anyone with this analogy, but to make it clearer, imagine your family joined a cult who believed we were put here by aliens from the moon and that we would return there when we died and they expected you to participate in their rituals. I don't want to be a hypocrite and i love my family. So..What to do??...thanks


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    #2
    eoin5
    Registered Users Posts: 2,141 ✭✭✭eoin5


    salfriz wrote: »
    Hi all, I just have a question for which i would appreciate any suggested resolutions. I was christened a catholic, raised a catholic and went to catholic schools. My family parents and siblings are all religious as in they attend church each sunday etc, although one of my brothers has told me he goes to avoid the hassle and arguements he'd have to endure if he didn't. I myself have no religous beliefs or practices whatsoever and have no interest in adopting any. Anyway, the problem is that at some time in the future a wedding, funeral, christening, etc will occur in my family and they may expect me to attend it. I will be forced to not attend and face the reactions of my family or attend the church services and stand up, kneel down, bow my head, join my hands, stand in que waiting for sacrements, profess or appear to profess a belief i do not share and resist the urge to argue with the priest. I don't wish to offend anyone with this analogy, but to make it clearer, imagine your family joined a cult who believed we were put here by aliens from the moon and that we would return there when we died and they expected you to participate in their rituals. I don't want to be a hypocrite and i love my family. So..What to do??...thanks

    Despite your non-beliefs you have to remember that most people are still religious and catholic in this country. You are the odd one out. I've never told anyone in my family that I follow Eris but after I didnt bother going to mass a few times on sundays and when I had to for funerals and weddings I didnt say the prayers and just stood, knelt and sat as I was supposed to they got the message I think. I dont want to attract any undue attention to my family as I understand small town Ireland so I think what I'm doing is the right thing to do by my family.

    I understand you with the problems you may have with what the priest may say but I think if its going to hurt your family then maybe biting your lip is the best option. Blood is thicker than religion IMO.


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    #3
    BJJDUB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 58 ✭✭BJJDUB


    I think the the first issue you should address is the way in which you view weddings etc. As a starting point perhaps you could look at the purpose of the event rather than the religious beliefs behind it.

    For instance - Would you refuse to attend a civil wedding?

    At most religious events (which in the majority of cases are not distasteful to most people irregardless of the beliefs) you can attend without active participation.

    Could you not attend as a gesture directed to the people or person involved - such as the couple who are getting married?

    Could you not attend a funeral as a mark of respect for the deceased?

    How many people attend ceremonies from religions or belief systems other than their own? I think you will find that the vast majority of people do.

    And lastly - isn't "ritual" a rather strong word in respect of what it could imply.


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    #4
    Sangre
    Registered Users Posts: 12,154 ✭✭✭✭Sangre


    Go the events as an invited guest. Just don't participate in the religious ceremenoies e.g. kneel, pray or receive sacrament.


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    #5
    DinoBot
    Registered Users Posts: 699 ✭✭✭DinoBot


    My advice, chill out ;)

    Really, don't take it so personal. Ask yourself a question: If one of your friends was getting married to a Hindu, would you attend the ceremony ? I think sometimes people see it as admitting their still still Christian if they go to these things. They feel like a statement has to be made each time. But it takes time, don't be too strict on yourself about it.

    I recently had the tough time of refusing to be god parent for my sisters baby (but come on, why ask a non Christian anyway :rolleyes: )


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    #6
    Dades
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,558 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    DinoBot wrote: »
    My advice, chill out ;) Really, don't take it so personal. Ask yourself a question: If one of your friends was getting married to a Hindu, would you attend the ceremony ?
    LOL - that is exactly what I was going to say! Although I suppose at a Hindu ceremony you wouldn't be expected to believe in the proceedings.

    People get too caught up in being overtly not-religious. Weddings, Christenings and funerals are all about the occasion. I'll turn up, stand, sit, look reflective, be quiet etc. I won't kneel or get communion though. And there's nothing hypocritical about doing something if you are doing it for someone else other than yourself.


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    #7
    Whispered
    Registered Users Posts: 14,772 ✭✭✭✭Whispered


    Dades wrote: »

    People get too caught up in being overtly not-religious. Weddings, Christenings and funerals are all about the occasion. I'll turn up, stand, sit, look reflective, be quiet etc. I won't kneel or get communion though. And there's nothing hypocritical about doing something if you are doing it for someone else other than yourself.

    +1


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    #8
    calahans
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 225 ✭✭calahans


    If you respect your family member, go to the function. As others have said you can just sit in the church and think about the occasion. If its a funeral reflect on the person, if its a wedding reflect on the commitment that your family member is making.

    I am not religious but have found time spent at these ceremonies a good chance to reflect in general.


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    #9
    Dades
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,558 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    Regarding funerals, they are probably the most difficult for a non-believer to sit through as the priest and his ramblings are given center stage. But as long as the guy/gal in the wooden box was a believer then you owe it to them to be at the funeral they would have expected.

    As described in a thread a while back, where a non-believer is dead it's somewhat understandable to be aghast to have a man in a robe talk of them in such a way that they would have found complete nonsense.


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    #10
    redfacedbear
    Registered Users Posts: 891 ✭✭✭redfacedbear


    I agree with what has been said so far - you go to mark the occasion/people not for the religious ceremony. When I do go, I don't say the prayers/responses nor take communion and try to filter what the priest is saying.

    I find it interesting that a number of people have said that they'll sit/stand at the right parts but not kneel - I do exactly the same. I've been tempted on occasion to not stand either but for some reason always do. Obviously kneeling is a step too far in the art of compromise :)


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    #11
    Dades
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,558 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    redfacedbear wrote: »
    Obviously kneeling is a step too far in the art of compromise :)
    No human should have to kneel in front of another human or a deity created by one.

    Unless it's the Queen, and she's Knighting you and giving you a nice plot of land in Cornwall. ;)


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    #12
    sdep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 194 ✭✭sdep


    I think compromise is the only way. Life's rites of passage are much more than just religious ceremonies, and it's important to be there for friends and family.

    Unlike the OP, mine is - as far as I know - an entirely unreligious family, and most of my friends know where I stand, so there's no question of me pretending to them that I believe something I don't. I also reckon that for the majority of the church weddings I've been to, bride, groom or both have been unbelievers.
    DinoBot wrote: »
    I recently had the tough time of refusing to be god parent for my sisters baby (but come on, why ask a non Christian anyway :rolleyes: )

    That's where I'm drawing the line, too, though I really ought to be ruled out on grounds of both spiritual and temporal poverty. I've no problem going to weddings - even as best man - Christenings and funerals, and I'm prepared to stand, kneel, speak, and - most excruciatingly - even attempt to sing. I don't do communion, though I recently heard I wouldn't be allowed anyway without being confirmed.

    I grant that any religious person has more cause to be offended by me paying lip service to their rites than I in having to do so. Perhaps they and I would be happier if I took the dissident option, but then I don't want to turn myself into the centre of attention when it's not my occasion.

    Oh well, here's to hypocrisy and more big days out.


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    #13
    Beruthiel
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 42,362 Mod ✭✭✭✭Beruthiel


    Dades wrote: »
    People get too caught up in being overtly not-religious. Weddings, Christenings and funerals are all about the occasion. I'll turn up, stand, sit, look reflective, be quiet etc. I won't kneel or get communion though. And there's nothing hypocritical about doing something if you are doing it for someone else other than yourself.

    Exactly. What's wrong with going just because it's someone you care about?

    Refusing to go because you don't believe is just silly imo.


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    #14
    Zillah
    Registered Users Posts: 17,371 ✭✭✭✭Zillah


    I'm renowned for being an intolerant dick when it comes to religion, but I have no problem at all going into a church and laughing on the inside while we all do the stand/sit/kneel dance if its for something important. I usually find it hilarious.

    Get over yourself. There's a huge difference between playing along and engaging in hypocrisy.


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    #15
    salfriz
    Registered Users Posts: 20 ✭salfriz


    Zillah wrote: »
    I'm renowned for being an intolerant dick when it comes to religion, but I have no problem at all going into a church and laughing on the inside while we all do the stand/sit/kneel dance if its for something important. I usually find it hilarious.

    Get over yourself. There's a huge difference between playing along and engaging in hypocrisy.

    So tell me, why do you go and laugh on the inside, why do you play along and what reason would anyone have for wanting you to be there if they knew how you felt? Are you not pretending to be something your not to avoid hassle and rejection from people who wouldn,t even contemplate your views, like a 15 year old dragged along by his parents, standing shoulder to shoulder with christians while they smile at you and welcome you to the club..


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    #16
    salfriz
    Registered Users Posts: 20 ✭salfriz


    sdep wrote: »
    Unlike the OP, mine is - as far as I know - an entirely unreligious family, and most of my friends know where I stand, so there's no question of me pretending to them that I believe something I don't. I also reckon that for the majority of the church weddings I've been to, bride, groom or both have been unbelievers.

    What are they doing there looking for "god to join them together" in a service conducted by a "servant of god" if they don't believe in his existance and what are you doing there as an unbeliever, participating in the charade
    That's where I'm drawing the line, too, though I really ought to be ruled out on grounds of both spiritual and temporal poverty. I've no problem going to weddings - even as best man - Christenings and funerals, and I'm prepared to stand, kneel, speak, and - most excruciatingly - even attempt to sing. I don't do communion, though I recently heard I wouldn't be allowed anyway without being confirmed.

    Why? why participate in some aspects of their religion and not others

    I don't want to turn myself into the centre of attention when it's not my occasion..


    You don,t control where other people direct their attention by your absence..surely its their choice if they chose to make an issue out of it?


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    #17
    sdep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 194 ✭✭sdep


    salfriz wrote: »
    What are they doing there looking for "god to join them together" in a service conducted by a "servant of god" if they don't believe in his existance

    Usually it's down to tradition, and keeping relatives happy. Maybe one of the couple is more devout than the other.

    More and more people I know are opting for purely civil weddings. I find these fine, but Christians attending might not. There's no pleasing everyone.
    salfriz wrote: »
    and what are you doing there as an unbeliever, participating in the charade

    I'm there because it's quite a thing to be invited to someone's wedding. Invitation lists are hard fought over, and if you're asked, it's because the couple really want you to be there, so I go out of respect for that. It would never occur to me not to go to a church wedding for religious reasons, and, as an atheist, it would be oddly puritanical to decline because the couple were insufficiently pious.
    salfriz wrote: »
    Why? why participate in some aspects of their religion and not others

    I skip the more optional bits, plus, as I say, I'm not sure they allow me take communion anyway. But to attend and refuse to go along with the main part of the ceremony would, I think, just make me stand out, and make other people feel uncomfortable. At the end of the day, as far as I'm concerned, it is only words.


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    #18
    Zillah
    Registered Users Posts: 17,371 ✭✭✭✭Zillah


    salfriz wrote: »
    So tell me, why do you go and laugh on the inside, why do you play along and what reason would anyone have for wanting you to be there if they knew how you felt? Are you not pretending to be something your not to avoid hassle and rejection from people who wouldn,t even contemplate your views, like a 15 year old dragged along by his parents, standing shoulder to shoulder with christians while they smile at you and welcome you to the club..

    Oh wait, you misunderstand me. I don't for a second pretend to believe. They all know I'm an atheist. They like their rituals. They like their family and friends taking part in the rituals. I don't mind, on very special occassions, induling them in these rituals.


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