Ireland V Georgia (Saturday 8pm)

damienom · 11-09-2007 2:47pm #1

Just the one change............

Rants on a postcard please, are we throwing our World Cup hopes out the window by not rotating? Or are we that far off the pace physically and in terms of match fitness that he has no choice but to play our first team?

Ireland Coach Eddie O'Sullivan has made just one change to the team that defeated Namibia for Ireland's second game of the Rugby World Cup against Georgia on Saturday. Shane Horgan returns to the Ireland starting XV having fully recovered from a knee ligament strain which occurred while warming up for the pre Rugby World Cup game against Scotland in August.

Horgan, who replaces Andrew Trimble, is the only change to the starting XV from the game against Namibia on Sunday last. Brian O'Driscoll, Marcus Horan and Ronan O'Gara have all been passed fit to play following minor injuries picked up in the opening game of the tournament. Ireland Coach Eddie O'Sullivan said: "Shane has recovered fully and in line with the original prognosis. His return is a boost to the squad and to the team"

15 – Girvan Dempsey (Terenure College/Leinster)
14 – Shane Horgan (Boyne/Leinster)
13 – Brian O'Driscoll (UCD/Leinster) captain
12 – Gordon D'Arcy (Lansdowne/Leinster)
11 – Denis Hickie (St. Mary's College/Leinster)

10 – Ronan O'Gara (Cork Constitution/Munster)

9 – Peter Stringer (Shannon/Munster)
1 – Marcus Horan (Shannon/Munster)
2 – Rory Best (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster)
3 – John Hayes (Shannon/Munster)
4 – Donncha O'Callaghan (Cork Constitution/Munster)
5 – Paul O'Connell (Young Munster/Munster)
6 – Simon Easterby (Llanelli)
7 – David Wallace (Garryowen/Munster)
8 – Denis Leamy (Cork Constitution/Munster)

Replacements:

16 – Jerry Flannery (Shannon/Munster)
17 – Simon Best (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster)
18 – Malcolm O'Kelly (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
19 – Neil Best (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster)
20 – Isaac Boss (Ballymena/Ulster)
21 – Paddy Wallace (Ballymena/Ulster)
22 – Geordan Murphy (Leicester)

redmca · 11-09-2007 2:56pm

Typical EOS selection.

I 've no doubt the team will perform this time, but nevertheless we are trying to play the WC with about 23 players (selected 22 + Trimble).

This has to be EOS' biggest defect. Whatever about some guys being purely in the squad in the event of a doomsday injury, the absence of Quinlan from any game time is astonishing.

At worst, I pray that this time he will utilise the bench constructively, in other words by the 60th minute at the latest, especially Murphy.

Nukem · 11-09-2007 3:08pm

Fookin Idiot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Killme00 · 11-09-2007 3:13pm

I dont agree. I think its the wrong time to rotate, i would play the same team for 50 - 60 mins for a couple of reasons

- i dont think fatique will be a factor if they are only playing 50-60 mins
- continuity = team spirit = self belief = confidence
- the first team obvioulsy needs match practice

maxi-twist · 11-09-2007 3:17pm

Trimble being completely dropped is a bit unfair. But i suppose it had to be him as he cant provide cover at full back.

Iompair · 11-09-2007 3:18pm

I'd love if we could rotate our team, but they need to play together as much as possible. After the terrible start against Namibia I'm not suprised the team has changed so little. Hopefully they can begin to get back some of the form they've lost over the last few months and put together a decent performance.

Regarding EOSs substitution policy, its the thing I hate most about his management of the team, he rarely brings players on early enough for them to have an impact. It seems we have a plan when we start the game and come hell or high water we'll play that plan until the last 10 minutes when we might try a few changes for the craic.:(

razorblunt · 11-09-2007 3:18pm

Killme00 wrote:

I dont agree. I think its the wrong time to rotate, i would play the same team for 50 - 60 mins for a couple of reasons

- i dont think fatique will be a factor if they are only playing 50-60 mins
- continuity = team spirit = self belief = confidence
- the first team obvioulsy needs match practice

Argentina picked a full strength side against Georgia for tonight and it'll be interesting to see what France will do against Namibia so he's right in getting his players match fit and up to the pace.

The only thing is instead of making holesale changes he should have made one or two, the players are getting too comfortable knowing the won't be dropped. Carney/Murphy on the wings might have been an option, Duffy in the centres, O'Kelly(shudder) in for O'Callaghan. Just to shake things up without unbalancing the team.

shaneor · 11-09-2007 3:28pm

Can anyone really say they are surprised? This is typical of EOS.

I know the arguments in favor of the team he picked (they need match practice etc) but I can't help the feeling that our players will be wrecked by the time we get/if we get to a serious knockout game and we'll ruin any chance we have!

Look at the AB ... 11 changes for Portugal so all the players are fresh and match fit in case they are needed ... that's the way these tournaments need to be played.

wowy · 11-09-2007 3:43pm

shaneor wrote:

Look at the AB ... 11 changes for Portugal so all the players are fresh and match fit in case they are needed ... that's the way these tournaments need to be played.

The All Blacks aren't in the position where their first team is playing woeful rugby, where their key players are severely lacking match fitness, and where after their performance and the points picked up in their first game they need to start racking up points (and a performance!) in their second.

ollyk1 · 11-09-2007 3:57pm

maxi-twist wrote:

Trimble being completely dropped is a bit unfair. But i suppose it had to be him as he cant provide cover at full back.

Apparently he's fractured a bone in his finger so not an option to play him. Horgan was always playing this one anyway. As for cover on the bench Murphy is a much better cover option so I don't see your point tbh.

maxi-twist · 11-09-2007 4:07pm

Well hickey had an awful match,why not drop him instead of trimble who was alright. If he's injured then thats a totally different story.

bugler · 11-09-2007 4:07pm

Basically the likes of Carney and Quinlan aren't going to get out of their suits this WC.

I felt a couple of changes were necessary if no other reason than to emphasise there is competition for places, and you can't afford to play badly and still be a certainty on the team sheet. To this end I don't see why Hickie couldnt have been moved to the bench.

I feel sorry for the lads who will be left permanently outside the 22 (well, some of them). I'm not sure how players feel about spending the tournament like that, but it's a bit disappointing to even me.

Linford · 11-09-2007 4:09pm

ollyk1 wrote:

Apparently he's fractured a bone in his finger so not an option to play him. Horgan was always playing this one anyway. As for cover on the bench Murphy is a much better cover option so I don't see your point tbh.

Murphy is not necessarily a better cover option to Trimble as it means that Horgan is the cover for the centre.

daveirl · 11-09-2007 4:18pm

This post has been deleted.

Stev_o · 11-09-2007 4:19pm

Id love to know what the other 15 think of this. To be honest i think its the most disgraceful thing a manager can do and EOS sets boundaries for it. He might as well have left the other 15 at home if because at this rate he wont need any of them*sigh*

4 more years of this? Why oh why oh why............*sigh*

GreenHell · 11-09-2007 4:19pm

At least I don't have to make a change to my fantasy rugby team, sound man eddie

BigDragon · 11-09-2007 4:22pm

bugler wrote:

Basically the likes of Carney and Quinlan aren't going to get out of their suits this WC.

A crying shame as I think both a made for coming off the bench and making an impact....

ollyk1 · 11-09-2007 4:27pm

BigDragon wrote:

A crying shame as I think both a made for coming off the bench and making an impact....

Agreed Dave. I'd love to at least have seen them both on the bench and getting a decent 30 minute plus run in the second half.

Nukem · 11-09-2007 4:51pm

ollyk1 wrote:

I'd love to at least have seen them both on the bench and getting a decent 30 minute plus run in the second half.

EOS won't play a 22 man game so what was the point bringing 30 players? He put Wallace and Murphy on for 90 seconds - thats some real sharp decision making!

Watch now ROG,BOD,POC,Hayes and Horan get injured in this match :rolleyes:

Stev_o · 11-09-2007 5:00pm

Nukem wrote:

Watch now ROG,BOD,POC,Hayes and Horan get injured in this match :rolleyes:

You know as bad as it sounds some part of me says that something like that should happen so to slap some sense into EOS that modern rugby is 22 man game and RWC is a 30 man game. That man really needs to wake up !

thebaz · 11-09-2007 5:20pm

i'm quickly tiring of EOS conservatism -- if i was Alan Quinlan , Brian Carney , Neil Best , Jerry Flannery , Geordan Murphy , i'd be crazy ... the team needed shaking up before France - and Eddies serves up the same ... and to cap it all cutely organised his contract prior to World Cup ... this dream seams to be quickly becoming a nightmare -- hope i'm wrong , but it ain't looking pretty from where i am .

kevmy · 11-09-2007 5:24pm

I was never expecting wholesale changes. Nor did I think they were a good idea.

But surely Flannery for Best just to see if Jerry is back to top form (as if he is he's is miles better than Best)

Give Neil Best a chance instead of Easterby and stick Quinlan on the bench. Just to see his options.

Otherwise not much point in making changes. BOD, Wallace and Horgan all need game time. Hayes, Horan, PoC and Rog knew going out they would start every game bar catastrophe.

It would be good to see Murphy getting decent game time and Wallace should be allowed to break sweat. But then again prob after 50-60 mins when we should have it sewn up.

Jack Sheehan · 11-09-2007 5:25pm

Pity Trimble isn't playing, I thought he was decent in the Ireland Namibia match.

zAbbo · 11-09-2007 5:44pm

Wakey Wakey lads, We need to put out the strongest team, Eddie is spot on, doesn't matter if you like him or not (kudos to those lambasting him soccer style :rolleyes: )

This is our strongest XV, there were never going to be changes.

This is the team that I'd expect to start against France, bar a catastrpohe by either Rory Best or Simon Easterby, no other position is up for grabs.

Those outside the starting XV have a near impossible task of claiming game time.

thebaz · 11-09-2007 6:00pm

zabbo wrote:

, no other position is up for grabs.

.

thats the problem -- the comfort zone -- play badly for the All Blacks, Aussies / French -- your gone -- meanwhile our lads can go through the motions , without worrying about being axed and then get the early plane home

mikedragon32 · 11-09-2007 6:03pm

thebaz wrote:

thats the problem -- the comfort zone -- play badly for the All Blacks, Aussies / French -- your gone -- meanwhile our lads can go through the motions , without worrying about being axed and then get the early plane home

Baz, do you seriously believe our players are "going through the motions"?

I think we have a team that is humiliated by their last two performances and have low confidence, but to say they're not even trying is pretty strong.

Sangre · 11-09-2007 6:08pm

Good win > rotating/conserving players.

Stev_o · 11-09-2007 6:44pm

zabbo wrote:

Wakey Wakey lads, We need to put out the strongest team, Eddie is spot on.

This is our strongest XV, there were never going to be changes.
.

I dont mind him sticking with his first team BUT he has to be the only manager in world rugby not to use his bench to the full potential. I mean bloody hell he really must think that we arent going to get far because theirs no way on hell he's going to play his first team EVERY match. Everyone recall Leinsters performance end of season? The players where just woefull and the critics lashed "Yes they have been playing way too much rugby its just too much for them" does EOS expect them to be able to play every match in the world cup which is 10x as demanding as any other competition we'v played and expect that engine will keep running?

zAbbo · 11-09-2007 7:23pm

We weren't supposed to be as crap as we have been in the opening game, a big win would have seen rotation.

AndyP · 11-09-2007 7:30pm

Ireland: G Murphy; B Carney, B Murphy, G Duffy, R Kearney; J Staunton, E Reddan; B Young, F Sheahan. S Best, capt, L Cullen, M O'Driscoll, A Quinlan, S Jennings, S Ferris.
Replacements: B Jackman, T Buckley, M O'Kelly, N Best, I Boss, K Lewis, L Fitzgerald.

That was the starting XV against Argentina in the second test. Now why waste a warm up tour like that with players who have no hope of seeing action in the WC (even against the small teams). Then people moan about lack of good preparation, its ****in laughable. I'm not saying he should have played his best side on the tour, but maybe a 50/50 mix of experience and fresh blood.

RugBeir · 11-09-2007 9:39pm

Disagree that this is our strongest XV. Stringer and Dempsey, two weak links in an otherwise strong line. Horgans return is very welcome but a better lineup would include Geordan Murphy for Dempsey and either Boss or Reddan for Stringer. They say your only as strong as your weakest link and so it is for EOS' Ireland! He cant even win a 6 nation champsionship for f... sake!

The other major weakness is the front row. They will be thrashed against the bigger packs. Lets be honest, it will be a mercy if we avoid getting out of the group and meeting NZ. The lack of confidence EOS inspires in this team would guarantee their making a holy show of themselves.

Whatever you do, dont rush the changes Eddie - this team has more bad performances in them and making changes now might send out the wrong signals ! !

Ireland V Georgia (Saturday 8pm)

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