New Trains

fitzyshea · 28-08-2007 11:49am #1

Does anyone know when the new trains are rolling out onto the Waterford line? There are signs in every station saying this autumn but as far as I know its Sligo and Rosslare first. Anyone know what lines are next? Also what will they do with all the old trains Mark 2 and 3?
Thanks.

John R · 28-08-2007 12:43pm

Sligo will be first, they should start to take over sometime in the next month or so as long as there are no major hitches with the commissioning. I expect that they will convert all of the Sligo services first before rolling them out on other lines as that will release much needed commuter stock for Dublin area services.

After that I am sure I read somewhere that the plan has now changed and Westport will get the next batch.

It will be next year, probably autumn before all of them have been delivered so I wouldn't expect them to be regulars on Waterford services until next summer, the plan appears to be to have them all in service for the Dec 2008 timetable.

All the Mk2 coaches will be scrapped, they won't be keeping any of them and I highly doubt anyone else would want them. They are in a pretty poor state now with corrosion.

IE seem to be keen to rid themselves of all loco-hauled passenger workings apart from Cork and Belfast so the future of the Mk3s is not great. There is talk of some sets being kept for increased frequency on the Belfast run, not sure how true that is though. Depending on what happens to demand after the railcars are introduced there may be a need for some other sets to be kept for peak services.

It is possible that they might be able to flog them to an overseas railway as they are in quite good condition and easily have 10 more years life in them, 20+ with a proper overhaul.

Red Alert · 28-08-2007 2:41pm

Likelihood of that with CIE's reputation for chopping up usable equipment :rolleyes:

fitzyshea · 28-08-2007 3:51pm

John R wrote:

Sligo will be first, they should start to take over sometime in the next month or so as long as there are no major hitches with the commissioning. I expect that they will convert all of the Sligo services first before rolling them out on other lines as that will release much needed commuter stock for Dublin area services.

After that I am sure I read somewhere that the plan has now changed and Westport will get the next batch.

It will be next year, probably autumn before all of them have been delivered so I wouldn't expect them to be regulars on Waterford services until next summer, the plan appears to be to have them all in service for the Dec 2008 timetable.

All the Mk2 coaches will be scrapped, they won't be keeping any of them and I highly doubt anyone else would want them. They are in a pretty poor state now with corrosion.

IE seem to be keen to rid themselves of all loco-hauled passenger workings apart from Cork and Belfast so the future of the Mk3s is not great. There is talk of some sets being kept for increased frequency on the Belfast run, not sure how true that is though. Depending on what happens to demand after the railcars are introduced there may be a need for some other sets to be kept for peak services.

It is possible that they might be able to flog them to an overseas railway as they are in quite good condition and easily have 10 more years life in them, 20+ with a proper overhaul.

Thanks JohnR

On a relevant subject do you happen to know why the new trains on the Cork line have a separate engine, ie not the nice sleek looking one? It looks like someone in IE forgot to order extra engines!

Ham'nd'egger · 28-08-2007 5:39pm

fitzyshea wrote:

Thanks JohnR

On a relevant subject do you happen to know why the new trains on the Cork line have a separate engine, ie not the nice sleek looking one? It looks like someone in IE forgot to order extra engines!

Ah, if only you could be told the real answer

KC61 · 28-08-2007 7:32pm

fitzyshea wrote:

Thanks JohnR

On a relevant subject do you happen to know why the new trains on the Cork line have a separate engine, ie not the nice sleek looking one? It looks like someone in IE forgot to order extra engines!

The Mark 4 coaching stock was purchased as push/pull stock - the locomotive is always at the Cork end and pulls in the southern direction and pushes in the northern direction.

The "nice sleek" end of the train is a Driving Van Trailer - there is no engine in that coach, only a generator to power to the electrics on the train.

bg07 · 28-08-2007 9:32pm

John R wrote:

It is possible that they might be able to flog them to an overseas railway as they are in quite good condition and easily have 10 more years life in them, 20+ with a proper overhaul.

As Ireland has unique gauge to the rest of the world, they will have difficulty finding buyers (Something to do with a compromise between the Dublin and Belfast train companies when the line connecting them was being built back in the day). That’s way new trains cost so much for Ireland as the have to be specially modified to fit the gauge. Thus the luas was built and metro will be built to a different gauge so rolling stock can be bought off the shelf.

Yoda · 29-08-2007 12:11am

All I want is laptop power points on the Westport line....

corktina · 29-08-2007 7:13am

bg07 wrote:

As Ireland has unique gauge to the rest of the world, they will have difficulty finding buyers (Something to do with a compromise between the Dublin and Belfast train companies when the line connecting them was being built back in the day). That’s way new trains cost so much for Ireland as the have to be specially modified to fit the gauge. Thus the luas was built and metro will be built to a different gauge so rolling stock can be bought off the shelf.

thats misleading....the Mk3's are built to UK loading guage and the bogies are easily swapped.I don't believe it costs an awful lot extra to build bogies to our guage does it?

Ham'nd'egger · 29-08-2007 11:06am

corktina wrote:

thats misleading....the Mk3's are built to UK loading guage and the bogies are easily swapped.I don't believe it costs an awful lot extra to build bogies to our guage does it?

You are correct, Corky, it isn't too hard. While there is an additional cost as 5'3" gauge is not universal, it is not at all exhorbitant. Most bogies used here are common worldwide, with some minor adaptions to our gauge. In fact, the carriages known as the International Set were formerly used on British Rail's Advanced Passenger Trains in the early 1980's; they were adapted quickly enough to Irish gauge.

fitzyshea · 29-08-2007 11:57am

KC61 wrote:

The Mark 4 coaching stock was purchased as push/pull stock - the locomotive is always at the Cork end and pulls in the southern direction and pushes in the northern direction.

The "nice sleek" end of the train is a Driving Van Trailer - there is no engine in that coach, only a generator to power to the electrics on the train.

Ok did not no that! TBH I think they look good from the sleek end then shi* from the other end.

If they are disposing of the old Mark 2 and 3 I presume they will keep the old engines for the MK4?

paulm17781 · 29-08-2007 12:33pm

fitzyshea wrote:

Ok did not no that! TBH I think they look good from the sleek end then shi* from the other end.

It sums up IE pretty well. It shows how they are willing to make half an effort.

Ham'nd'egger · 29-08-2007 1:46pm

fitzyshea wrote:

Ok did not no that! TBH I think they look good from the sleek end then shi* from the other end. If they are disposing of the old Mark 2 and 3 I presume they will keep the old engines for the MK4?

All 32 of the 201 class locos will be kept. They pull the vast majority of Irish Rail services, and at 12/13 years old have much life left yet.

Terrontress · 29-08-2007 2:12pm

paulm17781 wrote:

It sums up IE pretty well. It shows how they are willing to make half an effort.

I don't know that much about design but I think that the 201s look great. Especially those in the new Intercity paint scheme and in the Enterprise scheme.

They look powerful and squat.

ucdperson · 29-08-2007 2:25pm

It is possible that they might be able to flog them to an overseas railway as they are in quite good condition and easily have 10 more years life in them, 20+ with a proper overhaul.

IE need to keep some MK3 rolling stock for peak periods and specials. It is unsatisfactory that there are no extra trains for major sporting events when it is easier to get a ticket for the game than one for train. Similarly turning away business at peak weekends is not a good idea.

Irish and Proud · 30-08-2007 9:18pm

A new MDU intercity train departing from Platform 4 at Connolly this morning. The time was around 08:40 and the stated destination was Sligo. Pity I had no camera with me.

John R · 31-08-2007 2:41am

Irish and Proud wrote:

A new MDU intercity train departing from Platform 4 at Connolly this morning. The time was around 08:40 and the stated destination was Sligo. Pity I had no camera with me.

It was not in service, just on a test run.

John R · 31-08-2007 4:04am

ucdperson wrote:

IE need to keep some MK3 rolling stock for peak periods and specials. It is unsatisfactory that there are no extra trains for major sporting events when it is easier to get a ticket for the game than one for train. Similarly turning away business at peak weekends is not a good idea.

Unless the revenue from running the GAA specials covers the cost of keeping the extra stock then financially speaking it is a good idea to not keep idle stock for a half-dozen trips a year.

The problem with modern air-con stock is that if left for too long they get mouldy inside. Stock left sitting around for long periods is also more prone to mechanical failures.

bg07 · 01-09-2007 12:52pm

Does any know why it takes CIE so long to commission equipment? The MDU intercity trains have been in the country for about 6 months and there’s still no sign of them entering active service. I worked in engineering in the pharmaceutical sector and it didn’t take that long to commission new pharmaceutical equipment and that industry has one of the tightest safety regulations of all.

Captain Chaos · 01-09-2007 5:24pm

IE's testing policy is to run up 1,000 miles on a new class of train before it can enter service. Thats not 1,000 miles for each DMU set, just overall with what they have now. After the first batch enter service the rest won't take so long to commission.

Add to that driver training with each new route they want to use the class on. Test all the safety systems and loco rescue of failed sets, etc.

They currently have 13-14 3 car sets.

Sure it took six months of testing on the new refurb LHB DART units. They started to arrive back last October and only re-entered service in May.

KC61 · 02-09-2007 7:49am

Captain Chaos wrote:

IE's testing policy is to run up 1,000 miles on a new class of train before it can enter service. Thats not 1,000 miles for each DMU set, just overall with what they have now. After the first batch enter service the rest won't take so long to commission.

Add to that driver training with each new route they want to use the class on. Test all the safety systems and loco rescue of failed sets, etc.

They currently have 13-14 3 car sets.

Sure it took six months of testing on the new refurb LHB DART units. They started to arrive back last October and only re-entered service in May.

The required mileage is 10,000 miles not 1,000!!!

Standards are not set down by IE, but by the Railway Safety Commission.

D'Peoples Voice · 03-09-2007 2:01pm

What date have the drivers of the new rolling stock agreed to go on strike, until they get more money for carrying more passengers?
Well they tried it with the Cork service, so I assume they will try it with the Sligo and Rosslare rotues!

daniel3982 · 23-09-2007 2:10pm

Has anyone got any pics of these new trains? Also I heard there are some 6 carriage ones too, which lines will these run on?

Captain Chaos · 23-09-2007 6:02pm

daniel3982 wrote:

Has anyone got any pics of these new trains? Also I heard there are some 6 carriage ones too, which lines will these run on?

There are some pics of the 22ks here.
http://p071.ezboard.com/Dublin-area-2007/firnirishrailwaynewsfrm18.showMessage?topicID=6.topic

The 6 car sets will arrive next year and the order on which lines will get them has not been said yet.

The 3 car sets can be coupled together into 6 or 9 car formations.

KC61 · 23-09-2007 6:16pm

daniel3982 wrote:

Has anyone got any pics of these new trains? Also I heard there are some 6 carriage ones too, which lines will these run on?

The order consists of:

33 3-Car units (that can operate in multiple)
10 6-Car units with catering and 1st Class facilities
5 6-Car units for longer distance commuter services

There are currently 12 3-car sets delivered, and are currently under test in the Limerick area and on the Sligo line. In-service trials on the Sligo route will happen shortly on off-peak services.

The trains will be used on services between Dublin and Sligo, Westport, Galway, Limerick, Tralee, Waterford and Rosslare coming into service on a phased basis from this Autumn into early 2009.

There's a picture at http://thewanderersirishrailphotospot.fotopic.net/ and a load more at http://thewanderersirishrailphotospot.fotopic.net/c1224955.html

Captain Chaos · 23-09-2007 6:22pm

Pics from around Connolly station.

New Trains

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