Impossible to find apartments to rent in Dublin city centre

bico · 03-03-2007 1:59pm #1

Spoke to friends of mine who are looking to rent a one bedroom flat in Dublin City centre . Prices start at €1000 per month and that's for a dump. Potential tenants are queing up to view flats , they're gone within 15 minutes of appearing on DAFT.
Has anyone else been experiencing this ?

G86 · 03-03-2007 4:32pm

Hi, yea myself and my boyf are lookin at the mo and its torture. We're actually even looking as far out as castleknock and sandyford now cz of the state of places we've seen and the demand. Though finally saw a GORGEOUS place yester for 1100 and they gettin back to us today..so fingers crossed.

ronbyrne2005 · 03-03-2007 4:49pm

Mortgage on equivalent is around 1700 a month so a grand to rent a one bed does'nt seem that expensive for a city centre location. most people in one beds share with another person and the polish chinese etc pack into the apartments so a grand for one bed isnt too much for them, migrants are keeing the rents high in Dublin city centre. Seems to be a shortage of one beds in city centre so try renting in the Dublin suburbs which have good acess to city centre. Heres a 2 bed house a short walk from O'connell st for 1250 a month.

captainmango · 03-03-2007 5:21pm

ronbyrne2005 wrote:

Mortgage on equivalent is around 1700 a month so a grand to rent a one bed does'nt seem that expensive for a city centre location. most people in one beds share with another person and the polish chinese etc pack into the apartments so a grand for one bed isnt too much for them, migrants are keeing the rents high in Dublin city centre. Seems to be a shortage of one beds in city centre so try renting in the Dublin suburbs which have good acess to city centre. Heres a 2 bed house a short walk from O'connell st for 1250 a month.

When I was looking for a 2-bed apt I couldnt find a proper one for a desent price, so what I did was start looking for a 3-bed. A 3 bed is less demanded so the chance of getting a good one is more likely. (ok u have to share with an extra person but that isnt necessarily a problem)

janmc · 03-03-2007 5:28pm

Things seem to be particularly bad at the moment - we had the same difficulty a month ago and I thought we'd never find somewhere. We ended up raising our budget and lowering our standards, but got somewhere decent in the end.

Maybe it's just a bad time of year to be looking?

Calina · 03-03-2007 5:36pm

There is a squeeze on supply at the moment as some property owners are trying to cash in their chips. It's not that "it's just a bad time of the year". Normally it should be fine.

Ron, property for rental only looks cheap because property to cover by mortgage is disproportionately expensive. Whether that continues to be the situation in 12 months time is open to debate.

Victor · 03-03-2007 5:37pm

ronbyrne2005 wrote:

Mortgage on equivalent is around 1700 a month so a grand to rent a one bed does'nt seem that expensive for a city centre location. most people in one beds share with another person and the polish chinese etc pack into the apartments so a grand for one bed isnt too much for them, migrants are keeing the rents high in Dublin city centre. Seems to be a shortage of one beds in city centre so try renting in the Dublin suburbs which have good acess to city centre. Heres a 2 bed house a short walk from O'connell st for 1250 a month.

Theres a second ad attached to that for [url=http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?s[cc_id]=ct1&s[a_id][0]=pc10&s[mnp]=&s[mxp]=&s[bd_no]=&s[pt_id]=2&s[move_in_date]=0&s[lease]=&s[furn]=0&s[search_type]=rental&s[transport]=&s[advanced]=&s[price_per_room]=&s[refreshmap]=1&s[sort_by]=price&s[sort_type]=a&id=191447]57 Rivergardens - Glasnevin[/url] - Distance to City Centre: 0.8 km (0.5 miles), 5 minute walk

http://www.dto.ie/web2006/jp.htm lists it as Distance: 3.237 km Time: 38 minutes

A "slight" fib. :rolleyes:

ronbyrne2005 · 04-03-2007 12:26am

Calina wrote:

There is a squeeze on supply at the moment as some property owners are trying to cash in their chips. It's not that "it's just a bad time of the year". Normally it should be fine.

Ron, property for rental only looks cheap because property to cover by mortgage is disproportionately expensive. Whether that continues to be the situation in 12 months time is open to debate.

Calina, There is'nt that many one bed properties for sale on myhome or daft so where are these one beds? There seems to a shortage of one beds in the city centre at present and it doesnt seem to be because they are in process of being sold. As for 1000euro per month, I think you will find this is not that expensive on a Rent:Average Wage ratio and even in absolute terms compared to much of europe/world. See the list at bottom of this link comparing 2 bed executive aprtments around europe and world . You seem quite bitter anytime anyone mentions the rent of a one bed apartment in the city centre is reasonable or not too expensive! Even if prices halved overnight rents in city centre will always be highish.

bico · 04-03-2007 12:37pm

The reason why I posted this thread , was because a lot of the doom prophets have been predicting that the rental market will collapse with the property market , where as the opposite seems to be happening .
As more couples are unable to buy , they choose to rent instead and they rent where it's the most convenient for them to live as oppose to buying where they can afford. Hence the increase in demand for city centre apartments.

Bluetonic · 04-03-2007 1:47pm

bico wrote:

a lot of the doom prophets have been predicting that the rental market will collapse with the property market

Can you point out anywhere this has been said.

If you understand anything about the property market you'll know how ridiculous this is.

Calina · 04-03-2007 2:35pm

Actually, you haven't paid enough attention to what the Prophets of Doom have said.

The rental market in parts of Dublin is starting to squeeze. I haven't monitored all of it yet, but certainly the areas that I do keep an eye, there has been a doubling of available property on sale and a halving of property to rent. So any prophet of doom worth their salt could have forecast this and did. The rental market will squeeze as the sales market starts to turn and people start trying to cash in.

Ergo, squeeze on rental supply, renters caught trying to rent at the wrong time facing falling supply and rising rental costs. Nice for investors. This has also been seen in other places like the US, which is a few months to a year ahead of Ireland in the property meltdown stakes.

However there is a small minor problem. Currently, property is taking ages to sell, on average, selling prices remained flat two months in a row according to the ESRI/PTSB report, volume of properties for sale continues to rise, these properties often have mortgages to be paid on them in the meantime while they are on the market, not selling. In short, lack of occupancy is costing their owners quite a bit. Two things may happen here: they will pull them off the sales market to rent them out, causing a glut of rental availability in some areas (say, newish estates built in the past three years - Swords is good on this), or they will drop their prices still further. The more they drop their prices, they more they may entice some renters to exit rental and enter property purchase, reducing some demand on the rental front. The more they enter rental, the more they increase supply, thus causing falls in rental.

There are some key pieces of information regarding rental in Ireland. Yields are below inflation. Many newish landlords are, even with rising rents, subsidising tenants significantly. 16% of housing stock in Ireland is reputed to be unaccounted for in terms of occupancy (ie, not holiday homes, not PPRs, not occupied by anyone according to the last census). 40% of properties sold in Ireland last year went to investors, at a time that savvy investors had long since stopped buying, or only bought if they had massive amounts of cash to inject to keep the LTV low.

The current experience coming out of Florida suggests that they have hit the point where properties which were previously for sale for ages without selling are now being withdrawn from the sales market and going back on the rental market in an effort to stem some of the costs to their owners.

Depending on the extent to which that happens here, there may appear a glut of supply on the rental market, causing rents to fall again.

Of course, you have to add into the mix complicated things like slowing economic growth, falling employment, and HSE rental payments, and I'm not absolutely sure how it will all play out. The one thing that needs to be remembered in this country, however, is that instantaneous and all as information on the internet is, changes in the economic cycle are not generally overnight. I would have put a collapse in rents as happening quite a bit after sales prices started to fall. Yes there are a lot of falls in asking prices, but the newspapers thus far have been able to avoid headlines like "House prices fall". We are at "House prices remain static" whilst skirting around the issue of "how many houses are selling per month anyway".

Of course, this wouldn't happen if landlords weren't able to end Part VI tenancies for reason of sale.

bico · 04-03-2007 3:26pm

[ There are some key pieces of information regarding rental in Ireland. Yields are below inflation. Many newish landlords are, even with rising rents, subsidising tenants significantly. 16% of housing stock in Ireland is reputed to be unaccounted for in terms of occupancy (ie, not holiday homes, not PPRs, not occupied by anyone according to the last census). 40% of properties sold in Ireland last year went to investors, at a time that savvy investors had long since stopped buying, or only bought if they had massive amounts of cash to inject to keep the LTV low. ]

What does the typical profile of a landlord in Ireland look like.
My guess is that a lot of the investors who bought last year already had a stock of properties they bought a few years ago and are using the high returns on them to subsidise their new investments. This obviously has a saturation point but stocks hardly seem like a safer bet at this stage.
Does the Florida property market resemble Dublin's ? Isn't it more like the South of Spain than Dublin , glutted with holiday flats and retirement complexes.

hmmm · 04-03-2007 6:16pm

Bluetonic wrote:

Can you point out anywhere this has been said.

If you understand anything about the property market you'll know how ridiculous this is.

True. The US is about 12 months ahead of us and the following has been the general experience

1. House prices stall
2. Developers offering inducements to sell
3. Panic from "investors" who put their property on the market. Rental supply falls and rents increase because of property shortage.
4. Property doesn't sell.
5. Investors who can't sell put property back on rental market to try and pay some of their mortgage. Rents fall as supply increase.
6. Foreclosures increase
7. ?

Ireland is at stage 3. The US has reached stage 6. Long term investors would be wise not to take advantage of a short term situation (assuming it is).

TCollins · 04-03-2007 7:46pm

bico wrote:

Spoke to friends of mine who are looking to rent a one bedroom flat in Dublin City centre . Prices start at €1000 per month and that's for a dump. Potential tenants are queing up to view flats , they're gone within 15 minutes of appearing on DAFT.
Has anyone else been experiencing this ?

Yep, not so long ago. Nearly tore our hair out. Had to adjust expectations and budget to find what we wanted and even then we'd look at a place and call back an hour later and its gone.
You just have to persevere.

Supercell · 04-03-2007 8:14pm

It must suck to be looking for a place to live right now, my heart goes out to those viewing crappy properties at inflated prices.

As someone that been renting long time all I can advise is turn up an hour or so before the viewing time and have the deposit in your pocket - cash is king to landlords .

Have several times gotten a place because I was first and had cash in hand.

I reckon this is purely a temporary thing.
Construction is falling, houses are not selling, definately reckon a rental price slump is on the way.

If you have to pay an inflated price, go for places with a shorter contract, imho in six months time -prices will be plummeting as the houses dont sell and stressed "investors" have to put their properties back on the rental market.

Raskolnikov · 05-03-2007 12:24am

Agree, there simply isn't enough supply of 1-bedroomed flats in Dublin at the moment. The situation is such that at the moment rental income would actually cover a mortgage, something that has been almost unknown in Ireland for years!

ronbyrne2005 · 05-03-2007 12:43am

Raskolnikov wrote:

Agree, there simply isn't enough supply of 1-bedroomed flats in Dublin at the moment. The situation is such that at the moment rental income would actually cover a mortgage, something that has been almost unknown in Ireland for years!

Eh i doubt any one bed apartment in Dublin city centre "washes its own face" . Rent on a one bed can be 1300/1400 a month and the price to buy such a place would be circa 330k. When you factor in the extra costs of being a landlord(insurance, management fee, maintenence and repair etc) the rent drops to around 900 a month. A 330k 30 yr mortgage@ average IR 5% costs 1770 a month. So landlord is down 800+ euro a month as well as any capital depreciation. This doesnt include any tax implications.

jdivision · 05-03-2007 12:08pm

You forgot about mortgage interest relief

ronbyrne2005 · 05-03-2007 2:44pm

jdivision wrote:

You forgot about mortgage interest relief

For an investor? How much a month would it be, work it out for us, i doubt it makes the buying option much more attractive.

CiaranC · 05-03-2007 4:36pm

ronbyrne2005 wrote:

Eh i doubt any one bed apartment in Dublin city centre "washes its own face" . Rent on a one bed can be 1300/1400 a month and the price to buy such a place would be circa 330k. When you factor in the extra costs of being a landlord(insurance, management fee, maintenence and repair etc) the rent drops to around 900 a month. A 330k 30 yr mortgage@ average IR 5% costs 1770 a month. So landlord is down 800+ euro a month as well as any capital depreciation. This doesnt include any tax implications.

Arent you are assuming that every property for rent today was bought today at todays prices, and not years ago on the way up when prices were considerably lower?

ronbyrne2005 · 05-03-2007 4:46pm

CiaranC wrote:

Arent you are assuming that every property for rent today was bought today at todays prices, and not years ago on the way up when prices were considerably lower?

RAskalinov was saying the rent would covered an investors mortage (as if it was attractive to buy as an investor or FTB now) and you have to base this on current prices when comparing renting to buying ,investing etc. It doesnt make sense to compare rents today with price paid by investors 5,10 or 20 years ago does it! Rental yields are based on current rents and current marketvalue.

lostexpectation · 08-03-2007 3:40am

perhaps employment agencies or even foreign worker receptions orgs are going directly to mulitple landlords or letting agencies and getting the apartments before they go on their websites?

Kipperhell · 09-03-2007 12:27am

I was letting a 3 bed house for relative and got 18 replies within 2 hours of the on-line ad. I ended up putting up the rent by €200 a month. As a new mortgage it wouldn't be making money but it would't be losing much. My relative is making a lot of money. Think I could have got more.

There is STILL a shortage of supply. There is no increase in property for sale in the area. Prices are a little lower. Nobody is actually in danger in the area. Younger buyer beside investors should be worried IMHO.

Still no major problems. Over exposed people will sufer but that isn't the majority by a long shot.

ronbyrne2005 · 09-03-2007 12:30am

Lots of FTBs are now holding off buying as uncertainty bites. They are increasing demand for rental properties. Meanwhile new properties continue to come onto the market at rate of nearly 8,000 dwellings a month.

Raskolnikov · 09-03-2007 12:41am

Stop putting words in my mouth ronbyrne, I never once mentioned investors or buying being a good investment. I merely make the point that there is still a big demand for 1-bedroomed properties.

Kipperhell · 09-03-2007 8:02am

ronbyrne2005 wrote:

Lots of FTBs are now holding off buying as uncertainty bites. They are increasing demand for rental properties. Meanwhile new properties continue to come onto the market at rate of nearly 8,000 dwellings a month.

In that case there will be a huge demand for house in a couple of years. Investors could make even more money.
New houses actually don't tend to be the best locations so they may not sell. There is also massive potential to redevelop older larger houses into seperate 1 bed places. The smart investor may very well make a a lot of money in the future while new property owners will suffer the most. I think people way underestimate the intelligence of investors and lump them all together.
8,000 houses in the back of beyond means little to a 2 hour each way commutor, location,location,location. Well serviced suburban houses now rent very well.

yabadabado · 09-03-2007 11:55pm

its always been fairly tough to get a place in the city centre alot of dumps out there

TCollins · 10-03-2007 12:35pm

yabadabado wrote:

its always been fairly tough to get a place in the city centre alot of dumps out there

Its tough to find a decent place anywhere in Dublin now.
Rents are getting ridiculous. Next people will be commuting from commuter towns outside Dublin while renting, never mind buying.

babytooth · 10-03-2007 3:36pm

TCollins wrote:

Its tough to find a decent place anywhere in Dublin now.
Rents are getting ridiculous. Next people will be commuting from commuter towns outside Dublin while renting, never mind buying.

emmigrate....there's alot thinking of it, better living standards, lower infrastrucutrual defeciences....better apartments and houses....it is hard to find reasons for hanging around, more and more each day, even manhattan is cheaper to live in....

lostexpectation · 10-03-2007 11:01pm

why do the indo keep their loadza property newspaper/site so crap

11-03-2007 12:26am

the amount of Property for rent in dublin on daft.ie has been declining

Impossible to find apartments to rent in Dublin city centre

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