Recruitment agencies - name, shame (and praise)

eth0_ · 06-11-2006 11:23am #1

We've all had sh1tty experiences with recruitment agencies, who i'd go so far as to say 90% of which are utter parasites.

I will post up my own experiences when I get a chance today, but feel free to post your own stories.

Tom Dunne · 06-11-2006 11:58am

I'd take pleasure in getting the ball rolling with Hays IT.

Where do I start? Basically they misrepresented a position I was applying for. They hyped it up to the last, told me about non-existant benefits and told me it was permanent, when it was in reality a contract position.

During the application phase, the representative was my best buddy, as soon as it was in the bag, I barely heard from her, questions about the role were dodged quite skillfully. When I mentioned I had another offer on the table, oh how that table was turned. She didn't get nasty, but I could hear the desperation in her voice as she tried to convince me to take the job ( quotes including "Well, if I though you weren't going to take the job, I wouldn't have taken the application this far" and "you are setting your career back a year").

In then end, I took the job, but I made sure I actually had the contract in front of me before making the decision. I did complain to my new employer and they did give Hays a good bollocking, resulting in one of Hays' managers ringing me with a half-arsed apology and vain attempt to defend the indefensible.

In summary, Hays IT made used-car salesmen look good.

tbh · 06-11-2006 12:20pm

good idea for a thread, might be a bit dodgy legally tho?

Raekwon · 06-11-2006 12:56pm

Real Time Recruitment are by far the worst in my experience. I used to get 'spammed' roles every week from them and if I was interested in one I would mail the recruiter back and ask him for some details. But instead he would dodge my questions and would never gave any details on job specs, location or even salary, instead he was ask me questions (which were already answered for him on my CV) and always end by saying 'I'll keep you posted', which he never did. The only role that he pursued me over was a crap Helpdesk role in *Dundlak for €5k less then I was on at the time!

*I live in Dublin.

eth0_ · 06-11-2006 1:06pm

I don't think it's dodgy legally if the people who post are prepared to back up their claims.
Having said that, most of the recruitment agents I have dealt with are so clueless with I.T. I doubt they could navigate their way to this forum.

I have had bad experiences with:

I.T. Force
I am a contractor and was looking for a permanent job, I applied for a job they had advertised, was asked to come in for an informal interview. Went to this office in a pretty dodgy area, had to do a pretty pointless technical test...while sitting in their canteen...
After this, the woman told me "Oh there is no job but we'll keep you on file should anything come up". I've been "on file" for 4 months now and she's not been in touch, while i've had plenty of calls from other agencies so I know there's no issue on my side!
V. p*ssed I lost half a days pay to go see her about a job that DIDN'T EXIST!

System Dynamics
Absolute time waster. Cold called by a guy from SD, about a job that sounded like it would really be my thing. He asked me to call him back, I spent 30 mins at peak rate on my mobile to him, listening to him bigging up the job and how his agency was all about their contractors and they don't treat them badly etc etc
He said he'd be back to me within the hour with an interview time, never heard from him. I emailed him 2 days later, he ignored me.
Emailed him again a few days later asking was there a problem, did I get a bad reference maybe? and he wrote back saying 'Why would you have gotten a bad reference???? I will be in touch when I hear from them'

I had planned on hassling him every day just to p1ss him off for treating me like that but what's the point.

GOOD AGENCIES:
Eolas
Placed me in a decent enough job, great rate of pay. Always sorted out any issues very quickly.

Allegis
They're new to the Irish market but they are really decent people, the guy I was dealing with has been very understanding and apologetic that i've been placed in an utterly sh*tty job that is nothing like the job spec he was given, and he is working to get me a new position.

Personally though, i've been looking for a permanent role and i've been filtering out all the agency jobs on the jobs websites, and I got an offer of a fantastic job within a week. AVOID agencies if at all possible!

eth0_ · 06-11-2006 1:08pm

Raekwon wrote:

Real Time Recruitment are by far the worst in my experience. .

Dealt with them before, it's just one guy (maybe two now), they aren't exactly getting much work. All the jobs on their site never seem to change.

Raekwon · 06-11-2006 1:29pm

eth0_ wrote:

Dealt with them before, it's just one guy (maybe two now), they aren't exactly getting much work. All the jobs on their site never seem to change.

Only one member of staff, maybe two?!?

Well then that pretty much backs up my claim of them being utter cack!

Shutuplaura · 06-11-2006 2:59pm

In my experience its the attitude of the consultant you speak to rather than the company. I've had good experiences with a company others dismissed as bad and vice versa. I came to the conclusion that it was because I didn't deal with the same consultant.

For instance, everyone I know has only horror stories about Eden recruitment but I found the person I dealt with there was spot on and helped me get a great job.

eth0_ · 06-11-2006 3:36pm

Shutuplaura wrote:

For instance, everyone I know has only horror stories about Eden recruitment but I found the person I dealt with there was spot on and helped me get a great job.

Maybe they were new and had not yet been harrassed by their boss for not sending enough staff into positions, suitable or not

bobbi · 06-11-2006 3:54pm

Noel Recruitment worked for them for the ryder cup absolute joke of how they treated us :mad:

eth0_ · 06-11-2006 4:38pm

bobbi wrote:

Noel Recruitment worked for them for the ryder cup absolute joke of how they treated us :mad:

See, this is the kind of post we *don't* want.

'an absolute joke' doesn't give us any information.

Please give us more factual information.

Tom Dunne · 06-11-2006 4:38pm

Sounds like ratemyrecruitmentagency.com would be a great idea!

masterK · 06-11-2006 4:44pm

I stay clear of them unless I'm desperate. I've been sent to a couple of interviews over the years by agencies have given me specs totally different from the job. I've had 4 jobs in IT, 3 I liked and 1 I hated, guess which one was the only one through an agency.

I've also had one try to convince me to take a position earning 15k less than the position I was leaving because it would be great for my career.

The most annoying thing is when you tell them your only interested in Dublin, that they ring you back countless times over the space of a few weeks telling you about the great position they have in Limerick or Cork and then sound surprised when you tell them you're not interested. It must be even worse for those based outside Dublin who don't want to come to Dublin I'd imagine.

Mo-Mo · 06-11-2006 5:45pm

Shutuplaura wrote:

In my experience its the attitude of the consultant you speak to rather than the company. I've had good experiences with a company others dismissed as bad and vice versa. I came to the conclusion that it was because I didn't deal with the same consultant.
.

I agree. Even recently I had a recruitment agent from some place talk to me like she was a robot. She was looking for monosyllabic answers and would not accept me elaborating. Then today a colleague of hers phoned me and I thought she seemed a lot more professional and intelligent.

kippy · 06-11-2006 5:50pm

Interesting thread.
I havent had any bad experiences worth posting about with agencies so I won't give any criticism at the moment. I have had positive experiences with Eolas. I cant remember who I dealt with their but they were sound out and really helped me with any issues or questions I had about the role I was going for. I got the role in the end and it was a good move.
I've also had good experience with CPL in both Galway and Dublin with two different roles and found them good to deal with at all times and pretty quick to deal with any issues I had at the time.
I wouldnt tolerate a bad experience as these guys make a lot of money for placing people, moreso the ones which "contract" you out. Any problems and I would be pretty annoyed.
Kippy

eth0_ · 06-11-2006 6:17pm

Actually, I forgot one...

Computer Futures
Dealt with a guy called Oisin in there. It was my first contracting job. He completely lied about the job spec, and I spent 3 months building PC's when I was supposed to be a sys admin. Was also covering for the boss and his lapdog (the only other guy in the dept.) who went on 2 hour lunches very regularly, the boss would come in at 10 and leave at 4, talk about taking the p*ss.

I was off sick one day and I got a call from the agency guy scolding me for taking a day off! Presumably because THEY are losing money because i'm not in work! He was really unhelpful and made no apologies that the job was totally misrepresented.

I've since been cold called by a colleague of his, spent nearly an hour on the phone to him going over my experience for him to put me forward for a job...never heard back from him.

damnyanks · 06-11-2006 6:34pm

Why would you take a job that you didn't actually apply for? Are you under some form of obligation or is it just down to needing the work?

eth0_ · 06-11-2006 6:44pm

It wasn't til I was in the job a week or two that I realised they had lied. I would expect to be doing boring stuff for the first week or two but they made it clear that was all they needed me to do.

I also needed the work, as it was nearly Christmas, a very quiet time for jobs.

dazberry · 06-11-2006 8:20pm

eth0_ wrote:

Actually, I forgot one...

Computer Futures

I was wonder how long it would take from them to be mentioned

I sent my CV into them once, the following week I just happened to answer a call asking who the IT Manager was. I thought I recognised the voice on the phone and twigged something was up - so I gave a colleagues name. Needless to say they started spamming the guy (post, fax and email) with their specials. Beyond leeching the detail from my CV, if you actually saw how they advertise - their specials etc., to them you are a commodity.

E-People
Applied for a specific job with these ppl and went thru' a long phone interview. Didn't think anything of it until the following week I got a call telling my they had found my perfect job and I had an interview later that week. Problem was it wasn't the job I'd applied for. Further more it wasn't the perfect job on a number of levels that its not even funny.

I raised all this with him - including wtf he was doing sending out my CV to other companies. He was really dismissive and basically told me to do the interview for the experience. I was now incensed and rang the company in question - told the HR manager what had happened and she rang him, read him the riot act and told he she was never dealing with his agency again

.

Of course he then rang me and tried to read me the riot act - I wasn't having any of it - the air went a bit blue - and eventually he hung up on me. I emailed them and told that I wanted my CV removed from their system - still get the odd email from them 5 years on - sigh.

Computer People
The last time I dealt with them they just wouldn't return calls or emails. Never again.

Hayes
Work dealt with Hayes and we got a really great guy from them. Just before the guy finished we discovered that the rate they were charging us was far in excess of what they were paying him. We'd no problem with the rate we were paying - but we did have a problem with how he was being exploited (he was foreign). We will never deal with them again.

***

In general what you all have to remember is that all IT recruitment is SALES. So beyond targets - there is a little thing called On Target Earning - and believe me they want their commission. So don't for one minute think that these people are your friend and want to see you get the job of your dreams. But even with this in mind I still have managed to deal with the odd agency that can act with some form of professionalism - but they seem few and far between.

D.

nuttz · 06-11-2006 10:28pm

Computer People
One guy I was dealing with there, got me an interview with a company, but gave me no preparation, which I'm convinced would have gotten me the job. But can also be pretty bad at replying to emails, returning calls.

Hayes IT
Much the same with Computer People. Not returning calls, and emails. Not much help really.

Berkley IT
Best people I've dealt with even though communication could still have been better as far as updating me with the status of the offer received. They gave good preparation for the role in the form of typical interview questions as well as going through the questions with me face to face. The only recruitment people to have offered me this sort of help, which I'm sure helped me get the role I wanted.

ntlbell · 06-11-2006 10:57pm

I don't want to get into specific stories but I'm pretty sure over the years I've had dealings with every single recruitment agency in Ireland.

Every single one bar CPL have caused me heartache.

CPL have always been very good,put me forward for jobs that matched my skill sets, kept in touch through the whole process and never once wasted my time.

The usuall, claiming a job is for example a Sys/Net admin role when it's really something closer to a receptionist.

I now use CPL exclusivley or aproach the company directly

Raekwon · 07-11-2006 11:12am

ntlbell wrote:

Real Time, mostly dealing with a guy called <SNIP> another time waster.

Yeah that is the same dude that I dealt with. Calling him useless would be an understatement!

2funki4wheelz · 07-11-2006 12:55pm

Been around the block with most of them, and worked for one as a temp, and the way they trade people like commodities is a bit unsettling, but it a sales and target driven job so it's to be expected. Most annoying element I noticed was a tendency to look for new people when a new position came in rather than looking through the recent database, basically, the most recent person is fresh in their mind and they get sent out to things.
Also, in this partic. place, they had a database of people they met and if they ever got a Data Protection request - well - comments on people's files about appearance/manner, some actually written in a bitchy way.

As a job seeker:
Noel Recruitment (a few years ago!)
- Got me a great job the first time I visited them, good tests of my PC skills, but sheer luck, fax came in as I was being assessed and that's what I was sent for.
- A year later looking for any PA/Secretarial work, City Centre/Whitehall (or any of it's bus routes i.e. 41,16,3 etc) - was sent to a comapny out by the Tescos in Clare Hall. Took me a 20 mins walk, 2 buses and another 10 min walk to get there at the time. Girl interviewing me was shocked I had no car and realised the commute was unsuitable. Job spec was fine. She sighed and said I wasn't the first 'unsuitable' candidate. I told agency and said the position wasn't suitable, consultant got annoyed and said she couldn't see the problem with the commute. I never heard from them again.

Brightwater
Didn't get placed but consultants were always very honest about positions and tasks involved.

Sigmar
Got an excellent job for a friend, very quick, admittedly in a employee hungry industry but got her great money and a better position.
Also very honest with me and excellent at giving advice in relation to a change of career.

ryaner77 · 07-11-2006 2:20pm

I'm dealing with an agency as I'm typing this. Their called GHL Recruitment and i honestly could not speak highly enough of them, The girl i've been dealing with there is Larissa ? and she's gone way beyond what i'd have expected of her. I'm two weeks through a months noticed in my current employment and everyday i got a call/email/text update from her about my new position. She has come into work an hour early to meet me, she has been off sick but still made sure another person in the office notified me of developments and was able to answer my questions. She's found me a great position both financially and for my career and all i can do is say thanks !!

Highly reccommend GHL and in particular larissa.

AnotherEmigre · 07-11-2006 5:39pm

I've been reading this thread with interest. I've been abroad now for 20 years and have been looking on & off to return to Ireland. My dealings with agencies has not been productive. CV-trawling (trawling for CVs) seems to be very commonplace.

Rather than send my CV off again to the agencies, I intend to be a lot more selective this time. So can anyone recommend a headhunter in Dublin? They do exist, don't they?

Evil Phil · 07-11-2006 6:05pm

<edited on request of poster> (GS)

Jail8ird · 07-11-2006 6:34pm

Great idea for a thread!

I've been dealing with a few agencies over the past few months but most have been fine which I'm quite surprised about. Still haven't got me a job tho! I try to avoid using them as much as possible. I'm registered thru Monster & IrishJobs and even if a job I like is advertised thru an agency I goggle the job spec to see if I can trace the company and apply to them directly.

At the moment I am waiting over a week for a guy in Eden to get back to me. I've left a msg on his voice mail and send him an e-mail.

I found a senior partner with CollinsMcNicholas in Galway extremely disinterested in me once I came a few minutes late to our initial meeting but I am unfamilar with the city and just lost my way getting there.

So far I have to big up Sigmar in Cork, CPL in Galway & Hall in Dublin!

eth0_ · 07-11-2006 6:37pm

re: RealTime recruitment...
I keep getting emails from them looking for a CV, about one a week, with not even a job description! Example:

Good afternoon XXXXX,

I found your details on Monster and believe you may be a good match to some positions I’m working on at the moment. I have been placing IT staff in Ireland for the past 6 years and would be very interested in speaking with you.

Would you be interested?

If so, send me a copy of your CV and I’ll call you straight back.

Sunny_Dublin · 07-11-2006 7:44pm

excellent thread

soooo... good:
Firstaff in Dublin. they got back to me whenever there were news and i got my current job with them which was a massive career improvement for me. love'em!
also sigmar recruitment gets a big plus with again not only keeping in touch and getting me a job but for also being completely honest and: negotiating my salary upwards for me before contracts were sent out!

also good careers register which didn't manage to get a job for me but they were always honest about roles, salaries and the likes and it simply was a coincedence that nothing came up when i was looking. they kept contacting me though for suitable roles and stopped once i told them i am happy in my job.

and now:
i can't believe nobody ever mentioned manpower?! no good, this lot.. no good at all... from blatantly lying over the phone ("no, really! this position is really good and has lots of benefits and you easily can live off a salary of 16k a year!! yes, there is some customer contact involved but it mainly is a marketing position" this was for a customer service job in a call centre

). also they gave me a job spec which had nothing to do with the job i was interviewed for by the company, the company then telling me off that i was so badly informed... :rolleyes:

also surprisingly bad: cpl in dublin.
particularly aoife o'something, don't know if she still works there, is a few years ago now. this lovely lady even went as far as to threaten me that my career will be over if i don't take this particular job (which was in sales and i had repeatedly told her "no sales!!") and that i won;t find another job in any it company with my attitude... i'm quite happy now working in a management position in it, thank you very much...

and then there was 1-800-people... which i did not get to know better after the guy hit on me instead of finding me a job :eek:
no professional questions were asked but there was a lot of "so, you just arrived in ireland... what do you think of the irish men? and do y ou have a boyfriend". needless to say i left the office and have not heard from them since :rolleyes:

Raekwon · 07-11-2006 8:01pm

This is a good thread

Just to follow up on ethO_'s last post about RealTime recruitment...

I get mails spammed to me every week ever since I sent them my CV last December. It actually says on each mail 'If you are not interested in any of the roles then please tell your friends and family who might be interested'. I'm surprised that they haven't just attached a virus to trawl through your contacts!

The funny thing is if you actually do see a role that you might be interest in, they will never tell you the job description or give you any other information about it. Like for example: Perm SQL Admin, Dublin City Centre, €38k+. That's all you get!

So if you mail or call them for more information they will answer you with a counter question like: 'What have you being doing in the last two years'? That is written on my CV dumbass! It is like getting blood from a stone, they are a complete waste of time and energy! :mad:

seamus · 07-11-2006 8:56pm

If you're sick of getting mail from Real Time, just email him back asking to be removed from his mailing list. He'll be a little resistant, saying things like, "Will I keep you on file for a few weeks in case things go pear shaped?", but if you're insistent that you want to be removed now, just say it. Worked for me.

mountainyman · 07-11-2006 11:53pm

All as contractors:
The only company I actually rate are Berkley IT, good feedback, as honest as one could expect and prompt payers.

I have no experience with Eden I mixed them up with Elan.
My experience with Elan IT was pretty good they basically moved heaven and earth to get me paid before Christmas, the various bank issues and so on were all my fault but they were helpful. In fairness that was at citibank in a project that they couldn't keep filled.

Eolas were also OK got a job through them but thought the differntial was too big between what I got and what they got.

Computer Futures the same but the boss asked if I wanted to tell them I'd been sacked which I did and we cut them out. I found one of the consultants John Graham Archer problematic he threatened me when I left a contract early. (Though I had promised to finish it.)

Rescon HUGE differential between what I got and what they got.

Because other people have mentioned real time I had a disgraceful experience with them. Basically they rang my then boss and informed her that I was looking for another job.

CPL I didn't find good, misrepresented the job and then were uncontactable, but frankly that is sort of par for the course.

Manpower were absolute kuntz to deal with but that was a long long time ago and it was filling boxes with things.

MM

the_syco · 08-11-2006 1:11am

PeopleCom... although they got me a job, I never met them and dealt with them entirely over the phone. This sort of non-face-to-face contact left a foul taste in my mouth.

Stelfox... didn't like the way they did business.

CPL/Ann O'Brian... great, got me a job, kind of. Forgot to inform me that failing the "little test" would mean I get let go. Ah well, live and learn (and no, I ain't saying the company). Aside from that, the people there are great at giving me advice on interview skills, etc. Up to then, the other agencies gave me the bare minimum. With CPL, they gave me the info, and also tips on what to say/what not to say. There is 2 bad apples (who don't return calls, and are crap in general) in the company, but the rest I found to be spot on.

Reeds.ie... so-so. They gave me good info, but no job.

DB Recruitment... excellent. In my current job thanks to a guy called Dave Bowe. Sound guy, gave me all the infomation, got me the interview, gave me info on what to research. Also rang me back to give me info (a rarity, I find) before the interview.

Evil Phil · 08-11-2006 11:59am

the_syco wrote:

Forgot to inform me that failing the "little test" would mean I get let go.

Technical or urine?

Raekwon · 08-11-2006 1:37pm

Evil Phil wrote:

Has anyone dealt with Elan IT?

Yeah, I dealt with them twice before (I never got a job either time).

The first time I was called by them was in 2004 and I was invited into their office in Temple Bar by a girl called Jessica. when I got there I was told that they were actually recruiting for Google (so she said) but because of my lack of experience with Linux/Unix at the time she couldn't forward me for the role! I mean, she could of told me this over the phone! Newbie :rolleyes:

The second time I dealt with a girl called Grainne who was very nice and we met to discuss the role before I went for the interview. She always called to update me and she was always very pleasant and helpful. I didn't get the role I interviewed for but she did mail me a few times after with other roles that she thought I might be interested in.

Saint_Mel · 08-11-2006 2:08pm

Sunny_Dublin wrote:

i can't believe nobody ever mentioned manpower?!

My one and only dealing with Manpower was for a job advertised
as in the Midlands.

They initially wouldn't give me any details about the job unless I actually
applied for it. I told them I needed to know the location before applying.
Then they began to question me about why I wanted a job in the Midlands
so I explained that Im origonally from the Midlands area, bought a house in
Athlone, and dont drive so I was on the lookout for something near by or
along the public transport lines.

Perfect they said and went on to explain the role. After repeatdly asking
about the location they eventually said ... Cavan.
They wern't impressed when I said that Cavan wasnt the Midlands to which
they replied, well sure isn't it near enough ... to which I replied, not if your
walking and seeing as I dont drive its not an option. They wernt too
impressed. Iasked them to keep me informed of any actual Midlands jobs
but alas I've heard nothing since.

I had dealings with Richmond Recruitment before and found them
helpful enough. Lindsey O'Leary was the consultant. Went for 1 interview
which she prep'ed me and described very well but I didnt get it. Got another
job off my own application at the same time so havent had dealings since.

Went through FastTrack a good few years ago and got good job.
Consultant, Sean Donnelly I think, was very good. Tried them a 2 years or
so ago but he'd moved on and ther service wasnt as good.

All in all the most annoying things for me is when I ask to only hear about
Midlands jobs and get bombarded with Dublin, Belfast, Cork etc jobs.

bobbi · 08-11-2006 2:26pm

See, this is the kind of post we *don't* want.

'an absolute joke' doesn't give us any information.

Please give us more factual information

Ok sorry!This was my problem with noel recruitment:
We used to get the bus at 5am each morning so the majority of us were up since 3:30/4am. We started our shifts at 6:30am and worked till 4pm we were lucky to get a twenty minute break. We would get checked out and all around 4:30pm the bus would not leave the k-club till 5:30-6pm.We were tired obviously and they nearly everyday left us waiting on the bus for over an hour before we could depart.They were in charge of the buses and by waiting longer we would then be stuck in traffic and not get back to town till 7:30-8pm then people had to make their way home.We were not paid from 4pm onwards so it was just wasting our time by making us wait for no clearly decent or described reason.The other recruitment agencies left on the buses promptly.Thats being unfair and unorgainised. I have no problem working long hours but i thought they could have treated their staff better.

eth0_ · 08-11-2006 2:31pm

That is ridiculous, you probably could have gotten them into serious trouble for that.

The Hill Billy · 08-11-2006 2:49pm

Evil Phil wrote:

Has anyone dealt with Elan IT?

I contracted through them back in 97/98. The manager was a chap called Noel O'Dowd. The service I got from them (Noel & his team) was brilliant.

I've not really had any dealings with them since so can't say what they'd be like these days.

mountainyman · 08-11-2006 5:26pm

Evil Phil wrote:

Has anyone dealt with Elan IT?

Oh, and I can prove all this if needs be.

See above I mixed Eden and Elan up.

I think the girls I was working 'through' are gone though. had a fela' called Seamus Breslin who asked me would I not wear a suit to interviews. I told him I didn't regard it as an interview.

MM

mountainyman · 08-11-2006 5:34pm

Sorry another OK one are NetNation. Not dishonest on the Computer Futures or realtime level anyway.

MM

rick_fantastic · 09-11-2006 10:25am

cpl : got me a job in HP doing tech support when i was between 3rd and 4th year of college, i didnt tell them i was going back to college but they got me the top rate they give for tech support and got me shift work so i could get 25% allowance. when i left they tried to tell me that i would never get a job in IT in ireland and going back to college was career suicide.....

when finished college :

computer futures : lied bout job specs and rates for roles and sent me for interviews for first level tech support jobs, told me that 20k straight out of college was good for someone with an honours degree in IT.

elan IT : offered me some roles but nothing i was really interested in and never answer phone calls emails etc etc

hays IT : got me the interview for job im in now. said they could get me 150euro a day contracting and when i went for interview the guys asked me how much the agency was going to pay me. first the told me how much they were going to pay the agency per day for me and we struck a deal and cut the agency out all together

the difference was 80euro a day!!!!!

had various dealing with other recruitment agencies and they were all bad.

you gotta use them like they use you

MarshalBoy · 09-11-2006 4:56pm

Interesting post about Recruitment in general and some specific experience with agencies.

At the risk of getting abused I am an IT Recruiter that works for a Multi Functional Global Recruitment Organisation and would like to make a few points on the industry in general and IT recruitment specifically.

At last count there were over 400 recruitment agencies of varying quality in Dublin alone. This leads to a highly competetive industry. Much like the car sales men that we have been compared to there are agencies of wildly varying degrees in quality. You will get a higher level of service in Maxwell Motors than you will in the two man back lots out the Long Mile Road.

It saddens me that there is such cynicism towards the industry that I choose to make a living from. It also saddens me that there are a number of less than scrupulous characters pretending to have a candidates best interests at heart. Yes it is a target driven, time critical sales environment but this does not mean that we as recruiters should loose sight of the fact that it is people and not comodities that we are dealing with.

Believe me when I say that the frustrations are two way though. On average I deal with over 50 people per day, whether they are new applicants, have their CV on our database or in the public domain. On average 60% of applicants for a role are not suitable either because they do not have the skill set that my client is looking for, their salary expectations are unreasonable or they do not have a work visa for Ireland.

The purpose of a good recruitment consultant is to act as a broker of skills and to find people that our clients - the people who PAY for our services - are looking for. This means that there are certain things we are not good at - facilitating career change, getting someone who has been working in Localisation but done a J2EE night course a role as a Software Architect, or getting a graduate a 40K starting role! It is also frustrating when candidates choose not to turn up for interviews, dont return OUR calls, are less than honest about their activities on the job market and fabricate details on their CV - latest studies have shown that 80% of people lie on their CV!!

Having said all that I love my job because I am a facilitator of change, I help people to realise their potential and I contibute to economic growth by helping expanding companies to reach their headcount. All this I do in an ethical and honest fashion in line with our companies corporate values. If only all candidates AND recruiters operated in this way maybe the industry would not have such a bad reputation.....

Right - time to get back to the body shopping;)

eth0_ · 13-11-2006 3:42pm

MarshalBoy wrote:

At last count there were over 400 recruitment agencies of varying quality in Dublin alone. This leads to a highly competetive industry. Much like the car sales men that we have been compared to there are agencies of wildly varying degrees in quality. You will get a higher level of service in Maxwell Motors than you will in the two man back lots out the Long Mile Road.

I'm sorry but that is rubbish. As you have read on this thread, the big recruitment agencies are almost all terrible. Personally i've had more success dealing with start-ups, and even better success applying directly to the employer.

The majority of recruitment agencies are ruthless leeches. Maybe you're different but that has been my experience which has been echoed by other posters on this thread.

The amount of times i've been (sometimes agressively) pushed to tell an agency where I am working now, and what companies I have applied to - it's all in their own interest, so they can approach these companies to foist CV's on them!

The sooner the industry is regulated the better.

Millionaire · 13-11-2006 4:58pm

mountainyman wrote:

Sorry another OK one are NetNation. Not dishonest on the Computer Futures or realtime level anyway.

MM

Thanks, I m involved net nation, we are not perfect but we try our best.

sometimes its hard to get back to everyone, but we try.

if we cannot find you a job we tell you, also we always tell you the name of the company when we speak to you, so its up to you if you want to go forward or not. at least then everything is level and honest.

to be honest, we are a very small agency and really only do IT Support and Network Engineers type jobs , and we do not make any big claims nor promises , and we charge real low fees to our clients so they do not get ripped off.

we are on friendly enough terms, with most people who send in Cvs.

If anyone has any complaints please PM or email me and I ll see what we can sort out.

sometimes you try realy hard for a lad to get him a job, and for whatever reasons things do not work out, and you feel bad for him as a result.

but sometimes you get people jobs and they do not show up on the start date either, with out as much as a call nor email, so there is 2 sides to every coin.

recruitment is a really hard business, and there is alot of cut throat operators out there, who will do anything to make a placement, tell lies and all that sort of stuff. get us more honest blokes a bad name.

The industry is very regulated, probably more so than anywhere else, you have to get a license from the dept of trade, employment...also the nation recruiment federation regulates it. you have to send info in 2 twice a year to the gov dept etc. the Gardai have to do a background check on the company directors each year.... now thats regulated if you ask me.

The problem is alot of big UK agencies call into companies and candidates in ireland who are not registered here, and there is nothing to stop them. those companies are full of cut throat dell boys, who charge rip off fee etc.
there is no way they can be stopped either.

In business that are 100% people orientated, there is always going to be someone unhappy....and that can included me too!

eth0_ · 13-11-2006 5:21pm

Millionaire wrote:

The industry is very regulated, probably more so than anywhere else, you have to get a license from the dept of trade, employment...also the nation recruiment federation regulates it. you have to send info in 2 twice a year to the gov dept etc. the Gardai have to do a background check on the company directors each year.... now thats regulated if you ask me.

So what? How is that 'regulation'? That's NOTHING. There should be an ombudsman so people can complain about the sh1tty treatment they get off most recruitment agencies, and companies can stop agencies cold calling and spamming them touting for business!

Millionaire · 13-11-2006 5:54pm

I m sorry you have been so badly treated, the only thing I suggest if you have a valid complaint is contact the Employment Agency Licensing section at the Dept of Enterprise, Trade and Employment.

Personally I do not think that its "nothing" that the Gardai have to do a background check on me yearly. but if it keeps the sector clean its a good thing.

The funny thing you mentioned about agencies calling companies looking for business is that 8/10 the same companies, have a sales department down the hall, that has sales guys, "cold calling touting for business".... most of whom are working to aggressive sales targets. Look at any IT Reseller or say for example Microsoft Partner , they call got very target orientated sales departments.

As I said there is a office in a govenment dept dedicated to agencies, so that were I would start if you have a complaint. Thats all the help I can offer you.

youcancallmeal · 26-01-2007 2:27pm

Just found this thread, its a gem.
Here's my limited experience

CPL Quite honest and got me the job I was looking for when I had no IT experience. It was grand for a year but pay really is crap and they don't appear to be keen to find a higher paying job after you've gained experience with the first one they placed you in? Seems when I went for a new job a lot of the other recruitment agencies knew CPL had gotten me the job I was in and were very eager to 'poach their clients' so to speak. So basically from what I can see IT wise they are good for people with little/no experience. My brother was with them as well when he was looking for a new job and got a very good one working as Medical rep.

Anybody have any experience with Brightwater and/or IT alliance?

mick.fr · 26-01-2007 3:43pm

I found myself having hard time with agencies as well.
I will not name any, but after a while I understood some stuffs. And of course those stuffs I understood helped me out to deal with them in a better way.

My advise : Play their game !

By this I mean :

- You submit your CV for a specific job. Wait 2 days, if no feedback, call them. Introduce yourself. Make them know you exist and that you are a valuable candidate.
Sometimes jobs ads are fake, I am sure about this. So sometimes, surprisingly jobs are gone one hour after the first publication.

- If you went to the interview, you are waiting for some feedback. Do not panic, if they don't call you that's because the customer did not gave them any feedback yet or because they did but the agency do not bother to call you back to let you know. Do not be surprised about this, this is the way they work.

Some of them will let you know, sometimes.
Sometimes I had feedback after 2-3 weeks, because recruitment process are long in Ireland, so I was surprised. But that's the way it is sometimes here, so play their game. Sometimes it took 2-3 hours to get the feedback, depending if you are at the beginning or the end of the recruitment process.

- Do not complain to them. Be very diplomatic, even if the interview process is ****, it might not be their fault, but the customer fault. Even if this is their fault, stay polite, they could blacklist you internally.

- Make a kick ass CV. Do not think yours is very good. Always assume your CV is crap. Which is probably true. There is always room for improvement. A good CV (Even if experience is low) will definitely make the difference because it reflects your ability to sale yourself and also the way your work !

Avoid colors in CV. What I did for example in my CV, I added stars (1 to 5) to evaluate my own technical level on products and areas. Those stars were graphics (GIF images) like you have in forums to do the rating and were ranged in a table in front of every technical products or areas I have added in my CV.
Agencies were stunned about this, they all told, "Woa, that's really nice, that give us an immediate visibility of your skills and level" ==> This thing paid very well.

- Always announce a high daily rate. According to the market and own skills of course. Do not say 500 euros to install printers...
Agencies will always try to discuss the daily rate to get more money out of you. Also consider the final client you are going to work with. Depending of the industry and what you could find on Google or other source, about financial results, you could easily go from a 200 to 300 euros a day (Just an example).

- Sometime they send you bull*** job specs, low salary or nothing to do with your skills and background... Do not complain, because the month after, they could have the kick ass contract/job you were looking for.

- They do not give a fu** to you. So do the same, but treat them the most diplomatic way possible.

- Most of the consultants are ignorants and have no tech skills whatsoever (IT, Accountant, whatever...). So when you speak with do not get involve too much in technical stuffs unless they ask to, because they won't understand a thing, and will probably put you apart.

Once I understood those things, life went much easier, finding myself not to have to meet them up anymore, even those that I have not seen at all, ever.

So simply take it easy and play their games.

Kinetic^ · 26-01-2007 3:50pm

youcancallme>al wrote:

Just found this thread, its a gem.
Here's my limited experience

CPL Quite honest and got me the job I was looking for when I had no IT experience. It was grand for a year but pay really is crap and they don't appear to be keen to find a higher paying job after you've gained experience with the first one they placed you in

I had the exact same experience with them about 4 years ago, only difference was that I was that they got me a job in accounting. Rang them up 18 months later to see if they'd anything else but they weren't too keen.

Quite good though when they did get me the original job.

Elessar · 27-01-2007 9:57pm

I've had nothing but good experience with Adecco recruitment in Swords, they rang me every few days with job options, keeping in mind I had very specific requirements. Got me the perfect job.

MaryB on the other hand were a load of shites.

Them: "Sorry we don't call you, you have to call us every few weeks"
Me: "bye bye".

I sent CVs into countless other agencies in Dublin and never heard a thing back.

Recruitment agencies - name, shame (and praise)

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