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06-04-2006, 23:12   #1
Sand
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Easy Way to Train Marksmanship(Oblivion Spoilers)

Just thought I throw this out there in case you, like I was, are finding it hard to train up Marksmanship in Oblivion. It takes a long, long, long time to raise the stat because you can really only do it with an enemy and theres too few of them. If only there was some conveyor belt of moving targets. But wait!

Spoiler: In the town of Leyawiin youre asked to help solve a womans infestation of Scamps(Whom The Gods Annoy?). Basically involves taking a staff, bringing it to Darkfathom Caves with the Scamps trailing after you. Bring the staff down to the Daedra Shrine, drop staff, Scamps stop following you misson complete. But these are Everscamps - kill them and they respawn inside 3-6 seconds. You do get skill gain for hitting them. And they dont go away after you complete the mission. And they only turn hostile if you attack them. 4 constantly respawning targets all in the one place to quickly and easily train up Marksmanship. Theres a safe spot on the ledge above where you enter so you can boost your stats in complete safety.The only cost to you is arrows, which at 2 a pop is far cheaper than forking out several hundred to a trainer for 1 measly skill point

I only mention Marks because I found it very hard to raise it speedily, so this was a godsend. You can use this to train other skills like any weapon, armour, magic etc etc in a fairly safe enviroment.
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06-04-2006, 23:37   #2
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i just did that mission, and ill give it a try, thanks!
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07-04-2006, 09:30   #3
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Originally Posted by Sand
Just thought I throw this out there in case you, like I was, are finding it hard to train up Marksmanship in Oblivion. It takes a long, long, long time to raise the stat because you can really only do it with an enemy and theres too few of them. If only there was some conveyor belt of moving targets. But wait!

Spoiler: In the town of Leyawiin youre asked to help solve a womans infestation of Scamps(Whom The Gods Annoy?). Basically involves taking a staff, bringing it to Darkfathom Caves with the Scamps trailing after you. Bring the staff down to the Daedra Shrine, drop staff, Scamps stop following you misson complete. But these are Everscamps - kill them and they respawn inside 3-6 seconds. You do get skill gain for hitting them. And they dont go away after you complete the mission. And they only turn hostile if you attack them. 4 constantly respawning targets all in the one place to quickly and easily train up Marksmanship. Theres a safe spot on the ledge above where you enter so you can boost your stats in complete safety.The only cost to you is arrows, which at 2 a pop is far cheaper than forking out several hundred to a trainer for 1 measly skill point

I only mention Marks because I found it very hard to raise it speedily, so this was a godsend. You can use this to train other skills like any weapon, armour, magic etc etc in a fairly safe enviroment.
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07-04-2006, 18:14   #4
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What sort of benefits can I expect, apart from the obvious?
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07-04-2006, 23:03   #5
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Thats pathetic...Did you actually sit there shooting respawning Scamps to stat pad in a single player game? Christ man, why didn't you just go out and do actual missions and use the bow? I hit master on bow just from using it as my main weapon.
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08-04-2006, 00:03   #6
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Thats pathetic...Did you actually sit there shooting respawning Scamps to stat pad in a single player game? Christ man, why didn't you just go out and do actual missions and use the bow? I hit master on bow just from using it as my main weapon.
Ive completed all the missions in the Leyawiin area, cheers for your interest. Only remaining area of interest in the area is the cave for training stats. Yep, to answer your question I did stand there shooting respawning scamps and I gained more marksman points in 20 minutes than I had in the previous 5 hours play using the bow as my *only* weapon (honestly, Ive never used a blade with this character outside the tutorial, bow all the way, major, with stealth as a speciality) clearing dungeons, completing missions and running vermin control on roads. Less time spent for greater benefit. You do the math. If Markmanship was racking up quickly using the bow as my only weapon in normal play, then I wouldnt see the need to train against these scamps now would I?

And theres two ways of levelling, directed or undirected. If youre doing it undirected youll end up with a half assed character, hence the complaints about half assed characters getting whupped by levelled creatures because they levelled without working on their combat skills/attributes, getting something like +2 strenth a level, if that. If youre doing it directed, like I am, then youre certainly training stats as well so get off the high horse. This just cuts down on the pointless time wasted looking for moving targets. If you enjoy that time wasting, fair enough.

If you dont want to use it Zillah, feel free not to. I wont lose any sleep over it.
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08-04-2006, 01:11   #7
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Originally Posted by Sand
I gained more marksman points in 20 minutes than I had in the previous 5 hours play using the bow as my *only* weapon (honestly, Ive never used a blade with this character outside the tutorial, bow all the way, major, with stealth as a speciality) clearing dungeons, completing missions and running vermin control on roads. Less time spent for greater benefit. You do the math. If Markmanship was racking up quickly using the bow as my only weapon in normal play, then I wouldnt see the need to train against these scamps now would I?
You missed my point entirely. Surely the fun is getting there, rather than being there. When you reach the end, the game is over like...

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If you dont want to use it Zillah, feel free not to. I wont lose any sleep over it.
I don't need to...my character has 114 Marksman at the moment All earned . Well, the artifact bonuses less so.
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08-04-2006, 12:43   #8
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You missed my point entirely. Surely the fun is getting there, rather than being there. When you reach the end, the game is over like...
Im not rushing it though, youve completed the main quest and reached "the end" of the game, I havent. Im taking my time. I raise 30 points every single level for the max attribute gain. I raise level far more slowly than others - the difference being that when my character hits Level 18 theyll have 328 Hit Points instead of 152, based on pure stats alone before I throw in any magical Endurance boosts. My satisfaction with the game doesnt come from running through it as fast as I can tagging every quest, treasure dropping NPC, and levelling ASAP - mine comes from building the best character I can.

The scamps help me build the best character I can so I think theyre great, I threw it out there in case anyone else was becoming frustrated with how slowly Marksmanship raises (It takes circa 60 hits per point at Journeyman, so for you to hit master from a strong starting archer would require a *miminum* of 3000 hits. Say 3 seconds per hit, thats 2 and a half hours of *continuous* hits to reach master, not counting the downtime between enemies). If that bothers you, well, each to their own. Ill continue to use the scamps to boost my Marksmanship before I level each session.

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I don't need to...my character has 114 Marksman at the moment All earned . Well, the artifact bonuses less so.
Well I do, if I want to build a character that levels as strongly as they can every single level. Which I do. You dont maybe, but you were getting frustrated by the enemies in the Arena, which is the problem with rushing the game.
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08-04-2006, 16:19   #9
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Rushing the game? What gave you the impression that I was rushing the game? On the contrary, I'd say Im playing the game at a very normal pace, whereas you are doing that wierd maxouteverystat thing. Why in the name of God do you want to make "the best character" you can? What do all the numbers mean in the end if you had to literally shoot Scamps in a barrel to get there?
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08-04-2006, 16:53   #10
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Rushing the game? What gave you the impression that I was rushing the game? On the contrary, I'd say Im playing the game at a very normal pace, whereas you are doing that wierd maxouteverystat thing. Why in the name of God do you want to make "the best character" you can? What do all the numbers mean in the end if you had to literally shoot Scamps in a barrel to get there?
It means I wont be concerned about the Arena opponents catching me, because Ill be able to go toe to toe with them as easily as fight them at range? Level scaling appears to be based on level alone, so to pull ahead of the AI you need to work on the stats, not just the level. Bethesda appear to have built the scaling with the expectation of people focusing their training on combat skills, if you run into over-powerful foes then youre rushing.

It presents its own challenges as well - I cant use Blade and I cant use Restoration, because it will waste multipliers. The scamps are great because I aim to level once per session of play; I complete some missions, clear some dungeons, and then when times drawing to a close work on Marks for 10-20 minutes with the scamps to level up effectively. And it saves me time at the end of the day.

Seriously, we have two different playstyles. You like running through the game/levelling randomly, I like maxing out the character. Youre going to have to find some means of coming to terms with how I play my game.
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08-04-2006, 17:58   #11
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I think im begining to understand... You play the game in a way it was never intended...but if you're having fun then I suppose I have nothing else to say...its just so, methodical.
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08-04-2006, 19:45   #12
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You have a dynamic and effective difficulty slider, a vast world with respawning enemies (most of which are levelled,or replaced with higher ranks of the same species) and so many quests only a tiny fraction of players will ever do them all....there is no set way to play imho. I don't see the point in hanging around so long to level up myself but it's not like he just mod'd his character via the console, he did what he wanted to in order to have some fun, that's all that matters.
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09-04-2006, 00:06   #13
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You have a dynamic and effective difficulty slider, a vast world with respawning enemies (most of which are levelled,or replaced with higher ranks of the same species) and so many quests only a tiny fraction of players will ever do them all....there is no set way to play imho. I don't see the point in hanging around so long to level up myself but it's not like he just mod'd his character via the console, he did what he wanted to in order to have some fun, that's all that matters.
That's what elderscolls have been for a long time. Morrowind and Obilivion especially. Although for balance I'd say morrowind was better for early to mid levels, it became quite easy when you got to a highier level. In Oblivion,... well how about bandits with full suits of glass armour? WTF is that about?

Asides from a few small things the game is a "do whatever you want and have fun" Some people like grinding mmorpg style, others like exploreing. Although I do draw the line at people who whine about have the OPTION to use fast travel or an easily ajustable difficulty slider.

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It means I wont be concerned about the Arena opponents catching me, because Ill be able to go toe to toe with them as easily as fight them at range?
Try some of the mods that stop the level adjustment There's one that sets the arena levels so you can be an arena champion at level 1.. (that just sucks tbh) as the Grey Prince is level 60. It's a good challange (unless you do something special)
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09-04-2006, 14:35   #14
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...its just so, methodical.
Even Rocky sparred before the main event. Im just prefer to end up with Conan the Barbarian as opposed to Conan the Tax Accountant. And it provides some concrete short term goals in what is a very open ended game.

Its not that much of an imposition on normal play anyway - Athletics/Acrobatics will lead to +5 Speed, and youre going to be using them continously anyway. Sneak, Security, Marks for +5 Agility, and most importantly Block/Armourer/Heavy Armour for +5 Endurance. All I do is concentrate on using those skills (gives me some restrictions, but theyre still broad enough), keep track of my skill increases that level, make sure I get 10 points gain under each attribute before I get my 10th Major point, and thats it. My Marks is always the 10th point because its the hardest/slowest to raise so I round out a session in the cave but I dont spend spend more than 20 minutes there out of a 3-4 hour session.


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You have a dynamic and effective difficulty slider,
Im not so much of a fan of using difficulty sliders personally. I like having the option if some encounter is so over the top difficult that Im just short of throwing the monitor out the window before following myself, but it feels like defeat. If I had to set the game easier Id feel like Id made errors somewhere along the line that meant I wasnt able to tackle what the designers considered to be a normal challenge.

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That's what elderscolls have been for a long time. Morrowind and Obilivion especially. Although for balance I'd say morrowind was better for early to mid levels, it became quite easy when you got to a highier level. In Oblivion,... well how about bandits with full suits of glass armour? WTF is that about?
Morrowind was fantastically easy for early levels if you knew what to do. 1 hour of slightly tricky play and youd have a fortune in gold to train stats with no 5 point limit. Oblivion I have to say is better balanced for early levels - the 5pt limit/levelled treasure removes some challenges but it also balances the game far more.

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Try some of the mods that stop the level adjustment There's one that sets the arena levels so you can be an arena champion at level 1.. (that just sucks tbh) as the Grey Prince is level 60. It's a good challange (unless you do something special)
Im not overly concerned about level scaling - its directed at people like myself anyway, and even still Ive never met a problematic foe - though I might try the mods that stop glass armour becoming ridiculously common, as well as the mod that levels certain quest rewards as you level (as it stand, if you do a quest at level 7, you miss out forever on the much nicer reward youd have got if you were level 25 when you did it - this blows, so Ill be grabbing the mod that alters the reward every time you level).
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09-04-2006, 23:45   #15
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Morrowind was fantastically easy for early levels if you knew what to do.
If you have played through the game a few times or if you'd read a webpage telling you what to do?

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Originally Posted by Sand
Im not overly concerned about level scaling - its directed at people like myself anyway, and even still Ive never met a problematic foe - though I might try the mods that stop glass armour becoming ridiculously common, as well as the mod that levels certain quest rewards as you level (as it stand, if you do a quest at level 7, you miss out forever on the much nicer reward youd have got if you were level 25 when you did it - this blows, so Ill be grabbing the mod that alters the reward every time you level).
Well no matter what weapon you have Umbra > *. Sigil stones can kinda compensate for the rest. The NPC's do it so why not the player! I do agree that it's slightly screwed up, It looks like an over compensation for a case of "WTF do I do now?" or "Do I have to start hear now?" No matter what way you go you get an appropriate level baddie.
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