Old trains in Drogheda route

positron · 11-01-2006 10:00am #1

<rant>

Since the new timetable came into effect, Iarnrod Eireann seem to have resurrected a few ancient trains back to service in Drogheda – Dublin route. Ignoring the fact that they have the most uncomfortable train seats that I have ever sat on anywhere in the world, the trains seems to develop at least one fault every single time, and are NEVER (fact - no exaggeration there) on time!

Just to give you an idea, last night's (11th Jan) 9:25pm service didn’t get to Drogheda till 10:50pm – that’s a 35 min. delay on what should have been a 50 min. journey! Apparently, the some of the doors stopped working, and the train had to STOP AND GO BACK TO Gormanston to let people out who couldn’t get out because the door wouldn’t open!

The 7:18 service from Drogheda, is now an old train, and the seats are so bad, almost everyone who used to get that train is now getting the earlier one (7:00 service from Dundalk), which is now full before it leaves Drogheda!

I have no idea what on earth they were thinking bringing those donkeys year old tin cans, and its almost insulting to commuters on that line, especially since Cork, Sligo and other routes are getting latest and nicest trains!!

</rant>

MarkoP11 · 11-01-2006 10:26am

Actually they date from 1994 and as such are half the age of most of the DART fleet, in light of the fact 2 years ago there where 42 year old trains on the line its a bit rich to complain, every single new suburban train type has been allocated to the Drogheda line over last 17 years when they first arrived, new stuff arrived 1989, 1994, 1997, 2000, 2003/4/5/6

Some would argue the seats are more comfortable than some of the newer stuff

I see the 7:18 every morning on my way in and it is almost always perfectly on time leaving Blackrock (8:38) and it left there at 8:38 this morning and yesterday morning, it was 4 minutes late on Monday due to a DART delay, previously the newer 2700 type unit ran the service and it was frequently late and broke down numerous times

You are wasting your time complaining about the train type, its age or its reliability as it is above average, the bulk of delays seem to be due to staff and general company ignorance breakdowns are very rare.

There is an extra train as of 2006 leaving Drogheda at 7:27 arriving Connolly 8:28 thats where the 7:18 passengers have gone since it has the nicest arrival time of any service

Now if you get delayed
If its more than an hour you can get a 50% refund, the magic form is available here http://www.platform11.org/passenger_info/refunds.php#there_fault it took some serious hassle to get a copy of that IE don't seem to what to make it easy to get a refund
Complain in writing to IE but don't expect a response, I'd give you a 30% chance but if you talk up the safety issue of doors not opening then you tend to get a quick answer back

On the other hand if you want a response you might want to fill this in http://www.platform11.org/passenger_issues/report.php

The once off incident is not much good a catalog of screw ups is what is needed as a once off complaint nearly always results in the "once off", "maintenance procedures improved already" style useless answer

Berkel · 11-01-2006 10:58am

Stop whinging if you get a seat on these trains - there are a lot of people who never get a seat due to overcrowding! I prefer those old trains - if it gets too stuffy, open the window!

Bluetonic · 11-01-2006 11:02am

positron wrote:

<rant>
Ignoring the fact that they have the most uncomfortable train seats that I have ever sat on anywhere in the world, the trains seems to develop at least one fault every single time, and are NEVER (fact - no exaggeration there) on time!

Thats incorrect for a start. I've been trains recently which have been on time.

If you don't find your seat confortable then I'm sure the many 100s of people standing would be only too greatful to swap with you.

positron wrote:

The 7:18 service from Drogheda, is now an old train, and the seats are so bad, almost everyone who used to get that train is now getting the earlier one (7:00 service from Dundalk), which is now full before it leaves Drogheda!

How old are we talking about here? I was on the train (that exact service) just before Christmas (since the timetable change) and while I do admit it is not one of the recently purchased fleet is is more than adequate.

It has multiple doors per carriage and it's fast and easy to get on to and off the train. It's a short commutor service (<1hour), what exactly do you expect?

John R · 11-01-2006 12:42pm

Is he complaining about the seats on the 2600 units? They are identical to the seats on the original DART units and most people seem to prefer them to any of the newer ones.

The bloody awful ride on those units is probably what makes them uncomfortable.

The seats on the Mk3 coaches and the old CIE bench seats on the cravens and Mk2 coaches were the most comfortable but apparently progress means seats without proper cushions.

MarkoP11 · 11-01-2006 12:59pm

It is a 2600 unit from 1994 not the 1960's
It has DART style seats
It has windows that open
The ride isn't that bad at 60-70mph some of the newer trains are worse
Its consistently on time

The new seats are better for your back I'm told and are more fire resistent.

corktina · 11-01-2006 1:26pm

was it Annie or Clarabel you were in?:D

positron · 11-01-2006 1:29pm

Reading my own post again, it does sound like I was ranting; Apologies if that annoyed you! The older trains do not ALWAYS breakdown and delay other services as I wrote earlier, but then that was my frustration getting the better of me – and the fact that both 6:40 service (myself) and 9:25 service (my partner) was delayed last night didn’t help either.

MarkoP11, thanks for the informative and rational reply! I personally thought the looked a lot older than 1994, but I would trust your knowledge on these matter more than mine. Still, since mid December 2005, I can recollect more than half a dozen instances where the older train developed mechanical/electrical faults and resulted in delays – most of them on way back to Drogheda.

Also, I am a regular commuter with annual tax saver ticket, and I spend a considerable amount of time on board these trains. While I am very thankful to the service they provide, which is generally excellent and I am quite happy with, the poor quality trains and delayed service does effect my day a lot. More so than a dart user, or a short distance commuter, IMHO.

Berkel, I agree the trains are overcrowded during peak hours, but an older train with poor reliability doesn’t help the overcrowding anyway. Another thing is, there are trains that run not-so-busy periods as well, like the 9:20pm service for instance, is not packed, but just to the maximum seating capacity. Same reply to Bluetonic – its no always about sitting down, but just getting there in time, and in relative comfort. I am not complaining about a free service, but about something that I paid over the odds for, and I believe it’s only reasonable to expect national average (forget mainland European standards) level of service, if not excellent.

Over all, I am not happy with the below average service I am getting for paying a higher rate (per mile, Drogheda – Dublin rate is way higher than any other route in the country), and I still believe I am right to complain.

Cheers!

PS: I can't imagine how they are comfortable or better for your back compared to the other trains in that service. Well, as I said earlier, too many daily commuters I know have moved from 7:18 service to 7:00 one just because of the bad seats, and the 9:25 pm service, which used to be packed, is almost now empty! (Not sure if there are some other factors effecting that route, but I can swear, 7:18 route lost half of its commuters because of those terrible seats!)

enterprise · 11-01-2006 2:54pm

The 2600's old and ancient? Get a life, the fleet was built in 1993 and introduced onto Dublin suburban services in 1994, incl Drogheda & Dundalk services.

God if you think they are passed it go back 5 years ago when you had carriages from the 1960's, 15 years ago carriages from the 1950's.

And don't get my started on the higher rate per mile crap!

Berkel · 11-01-2006 3:26pm

Sweet mother! :eek:

Its nice to see someone that can actually take criticism!!! Look at that response! I always expect an OP to come back ranting and raving even more !
Anyway, off topic, but Nice one!

I have to say that IE are a bunch of scabby bástards when it comes to train fares. I see they got a 4% fare hike recently too (even though they had applied for 7%)... I find it incredible that you can get a bus from Dublin to Cork for 12 euro return while a train is now 56 euro return! Unreal! :mad: I know they are upgrading the fleet etc but it is too much...

MarkoP11 · 11-01-2006 4:45pm

There is a extra train at 20:25 Pearse Drogheda which might explain what has happened to the 21:18 Pearse Drogheda/Dundalk as it fills a funny gap

You won't get anywhere complaining about the fares its the one thing you won't get a move on, Drogheda is the best served station in the country in terms of services beyond the DART line, it is an intercity station and its beyond the Dublin suburban boundary. Now there is a fare abnomality in Balbriggan who pay way less than the average fare its not the other way around. You want to have a look at Seapoint Pearse where its 37 cent a mile which is more than twice Balbriggan City which is 16 cent a mile. If you think Dublin Cork is expensive (its 59.00 btw now) try showing up in Manchester at 7am and get a day return to London you won't get much change out of 150 sterling. That is the reality

No one wants to discuss the Balbriggan fares since it destroys the argument and IE can't increase the fare to level the playing field. I hate to say it but fares here are at a reasonable level (and yes there are bar charts to prove it) you easily would pay twice the amount in the UK. Its not a winnable issue in Drogheda there are one or two stations which are seriously wrong but they are not on the northern line

The only winnable issue here is to discount monthly and annual tickets against achieved performance vs target performance, 5%-10% discount as a result if they fail

Problem is if you move the 7:18 set somewhere else the same complaint will appear there and the set is not suitable for the busiest services as it lacks standing room but it does have the most seats

The amount of money that has been sunk into Dublin Drogheda is staggering over the last 20 years. Drogheda always gets the most shinny kit while Cork and Limerick get the newish stuff the drivers in Dublin refuse to drive since it is unreliable

If the thing is breaking down, specific dates and times are what you need, since you might not believe it but IE run one of the cheaper European railways and train reliability is better than average, they get a hefty subsidy of close to 44% they don't deserve it.

There is nothing wrong with the trains, the track or other equipment its the staff and management attitude which is the root of the majority of issues

John R · 11-01-2006 5:23pm

The reason why people think IE have very high fares is because they currently only offer open single and return fares. The equivelent fares in other countries are much higher but they usually have cheap pre-booked fares on varied rates depending on popularity, how far in advance the are bought, etc.

MarkoP11 · 11-01-2006 5:30pm

The upper limit on fares is set by the DoT so no crazy prices here thankfully.

Demand based pricing goes live on Dublin Cork late 06, that said the turn up and go fares are extremely low compared to the UK. You will still pay full price on the busiest trains cheap tickets are only going where seats would be empty

John R · 11-01-2006 5:54pm

MarkoP11 wrote:

The upper limit on fares is set by the DoT so no crazy prices here thankfully.

Demand based pricing goes live on Dublin Cork late 06, that said the turn up and go fares are extremely low compared to the UK. You will still pay full price on the busiest trains cheap tickets are only going where seats would be empty

Indeed but people see ads for ultra cheap fares elsewhere and immediately jump to IE are theiving bast*rds.

The fact is that currently the majority of trains out of Heuston have little spare capacity for cheap deals anyway, if the service was operated for profit the fares would be going up and up until demand started to tail off.

Ryanair do not offer €1 fares on flights that will fill up anyway and if they could fill them all at €200 a seat they would not offer any cheap fares.

Comparing Dub-Cork with the cheap bus services is also not fair as they are catering for very different markets, four and a half hours on a bus is a bit much for most so they don't even consider it.

There is also the little issue of the bus services being operated at a loss on purpose to generate custom. Aircoach have been steadily increasing the fares on more popular services from the bargain basement introductory offer.

positron · 11-01-2006 6:19pm

At the risk of diverting from the main topic, this is how a recent thread started in P11 message board:

“After living in Germany for 9 years, a country where public transport generally starts at 4.30 am and finishes at 1am, a country where one travel ticket for 2 EUR will let you change transport modes as many times as you want to get to your destination within 90 minutes, a country where you can get the 550 km from Frankfurt to Berlin in 3:30 hours whilst sipping a freshly poured glass of beer, brought to you by a waiter in the subdudely lit restaurant car of a sexy white train, I arrived back to Dublin at the beginning of this year.”

http://forum.platform11.org/showthread.php?t=108

Drogheda – Dublin return is 19 euros (or is it 17?). It does look good value compared to 15 min. in Heathrow Express (28 sterling), but then you can't really compare their service to the dusty, dirty and at time smelly train here. In short, IMHO, it’s not cheap and its really not that good value!

A Dub in Glasgo · 11-01-2006 8:32pm

I have used the Heathrow Express extensively over the last few months and it is a joy of a train service. It cost a lot of money to introduce and is mainly aimed at the business traveller hence the high price.

enterprise · 11-01-2006 9:53pm

This will please you lot out there:

The 29000 DMU used by IE is actually based on the Class 332 EMU used on the Heathrow Express! CAF built both types of trains.

ENTERPRISE

Metrobest · 12-01-2006 12:01am

positron wrote:

“After living in Germany for 9 years, a country where public transport generally starts at 4.30 am and finishes at 1am, a country where one travel ticket for 2 EUR will let you change transport modes as many times as you want to get to your destination within 90 minutes, a country where you can get the 550 km from Frankfurt to Berlin in 3:30 hours whilst sipping a freshly poured glass of beer, brought to you by a waiter in the subdudely lit restaurant car of a sexy white train, I arrived back to Dublin at the beginning of this year.”!

..Not to mention other discount tickets in Germany like the Schoneswochende ticket or Landerkarte. The "Happy Weekend" lets five people travel anywhere in Germany by rail/bus for €28 per day. That's €28 divided by five! What's the catch? Well, you have to take local or provincial trains - no ICEs or Expresses. To an average German this might be anathema: local trains, the horror!

But the funny thing is, even the local trains in Germany are better than any intercity train in Ireland, including the enterprise or the Cork train. Local trains in Germany are fast (compared to Ireland's Intercities), punctual (compared to Ireland's intercities) cleaner and more comfortable.

Nobody minds paying top dollar for a quality service - that's why people take the Thalys and the TGV and the Eurostar etc.

But it takes some stretch of the imagination to place Irish Rail in the same league as any of these operators - that's what makes the outrageous prices so annoying.

Victor · 14-01-2006 8:59pm

Metrobest wrote:

..Not to mention other discount tickets in Germany like the Schoneswochende ticket or Landerkarte. The "Happy Weekend" lets five people travel anywhere in Germany by rail/bus for €28 per day. That's €28 divided by five! What's the catch? Well, you have to take local or provincial trains - no ICEs or Expresses. To an average German this might be anathema: local trains, the horror!

6 changes and 18 hours Cologne - Munich.

But the funny thing is, even the local trains in Germany are better than any intercity train in Ireland, including the enterprise or the Cork train. Local trains in Germany are fast (compared to Ireland's Intercities), punctual (compared to Ireland's intercities) cleaner and more comfortable.

Tell that to the people of Bruhl, with its winding single track, slam shut doors and a station nigh impossible to find. They take the tram instead.

Old trains in Drogheda route

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