sub 1300/1400 euro PC

shooterMac · 05-09-2004 10:08PM #1

Hi there
Looking for a new desktop (no monitor) in the sub 1400 euro bracket, must be an athlon 64 3200 with a 256meg geforce6800GT & a gig of ram..
Anyone got any ideas?
Tried to buy the machine from hell from http://www.Jes-computer.de but they're out of stock.
I'd be grateful for any help

BloodBath · 05-09-2004 10:12PM

You won't find one pre-built anywhere in that price region. Just build one yourself similar spec to the machine from hell from Jes.

BloodBath

shooterMac · 05-09-2004 10:20PM

Looks like I seem to be heading down that path alright..
I just thought if Jes are offering one someone else must be, I'm in work at the moe & then starting back at uni so I don't have a lot of time to go chasing components

Mutant_Fruit · 05-09-2004 10:25PM

For that kind of money, you could build a fairly top of the range PC, if you went for the DIY option. And thats what i'd recommend with that kind of budget.

shooterMac · 05-09-2004 10:33PM

ta for the replies
managed to get doom3 running on my 1.4 gig athlon with a 128 meg geforce3 ti 200 so I guess I could take my time & buy the components from
Jes..only problem is it'd nearly work out more expensive than the one they're
offering for 1200 (1300 with an extra 512 megs of ram)

Ciaran500 · 05-09-2004 10:35PM

Email them and see when they will have it back in stock.

Col_Loki · 05-09-2004 10:49PM

The cheaper machine from hell is there for €1,100 ........ it has the AMD64 3200+ and 6800GT

shooterMac · 05-09-2004 11:03PM

hmmmmk
2 weeks they say; but I ordered it when they said it was in stock. I know it seems like I'm crazy but here's my story..
Sent the money by bank-draft using registered post no answer from jes, so I emailed them they said they never got the money..
An Post tracked the thing to Bundespost, which is where it went missing.
I canceled it which means it'd take 1 month for AIB to place the money back in my account..
I then got another bank-draft using my credit card which I sent off using DHL
Jes got that one but tore it up because they said it would cost 60euro to cash..
that one will also take 4 weeks to clear, meanwhile the 1st one i sent will be in my account this week.
Problem is I need it to pay my credit card so I,m stuck waiting for at least another month & who's to say that the PC's will be there then which is why I just asked if there were other similar offers out there.
By the way I also ordered the same PC for my friend plus a 12" notebook for me & an extra gig of ram.
At the moe I've got 7000+ euro in lala land lol
Don't know where I'm going with this post but it was good to get this off my chest..
What really pissed me off is that JES didn't hold on to the stock for me even though I was in contact with them most days & rather than email me to say I was 60 euro short (to which I could have said forget the RAM) they just
f***ed me over, which leads me to believe they didn't have the machine from hell in stock in the 1st place

shooterMac · 05-09-2004 11:05PM

but for 100 squid extra I was really looking forward to the extra 200gig harddrive in a raid 0 configuration

shooterMac · 05-09-2004 11:08PM

couldn't help noticing that the high end rig at the link favoured an X800 pro over a geforce 6800gt.....weird

BloodBath · 05-09-2004 11:10PM

All from Jes.

processor - 200e

hsf - 37e

mobo - 139e

ram 240e

case - 37e

psu - 54e

dvd writer - 73

Hard-drive - 94e

Sub total = 874e exl del.

Finally go to www.overclockers.co.uk

Go to the 6800gt section and have a look at the galaxy glacier 6800gt for 450e. They are great cards for overclocking and are very quiet.

Grand total 1324e exl del.

That's better than the machine from hell except for the smaller hard-drive space. Better case, ram, psu, graphics card, hsf, mobo, dvd-writer so it's worth the little extra really and fits into your budget.

BloodBath

shooterMac · 05-09-2004 11:19PM

Thanx BloodBath for all the links
I'm really grateful and don't mean to sound like a c**t but that's without the OS & I'm not sure about the nforce boards although the extream edition looks nice I have ordered wireless cards & a router (d-link) so I can't use the 1 gig ethernet options either.
I wonder how come jes can offer the system its offering at a profit with 400gigs of harddrive space & a great mobo

shooterMac · 05-09-2004 11:26PM

good nite all ta for the tips
Work at 7 by the way I work for a crowd called "Hole Masters"
No laughing at the back

BloodBath · 05-09-2004 11:32PM

The n-force 3 250's are the best mobo's you can get with that msi one in particular being one of the best. You would be surprised at how much of a difference the mobo can make in performance. Take these Doom3 benchmarks for instance.

The mobo that came with that fujitsu system was pretty muck in comparison.

The RAM I linked has really low timings also better than the machine from hell. You could drop to ram with higher timings and save some money towards the OS. You do know the OS with the machine from hell would have been in German don't you. Also the psu in the machine from hell was probably pretty crap. With the setup listed you have decent overclocking potential.

If you want to set up RAID you could get two 80 or 120 gig drives instead of the 160gig I listed.

It's either that or wait for them to get more of those machines in stock.

BloodBath

shooterMac · 06-09-2004 10:39PM

TA BLOODBATH
I think I'll follow your advice

Ciaran500 · 07-09-2004 10:29AM

I found this this morning and I think you'll be interested http://www.dabs.com/uk/productview?quicklinx=3BH3

BloodBath · 07-09-2004 11:33AM

That's a great price but it doesn't say what manufacturer.

BloodBath

Ciaran500 · 07-09-2004 12:09PM

It does in the reviews

"Great Value, as good as all the expensive versions!
reviewed by Lee. review posted 25/08/2004 13:30:00
Well, worth the purchase. Infact, FYI this is the Inno3d 6800GT, so don't be put off thinking this is an unknown brand. I was surprised to find it came in a retail box because I expected at this price it would come as OEM! Contains full version of the game Commandos 3 plus various other free demos. Also, Overclocks very well to Ultra speeds. Both the core and memory stable at 410MHz and 1110MHz respectively (stock = 350MHz and 100MHz). Ultra for £250, Awesome VFM!"

naitkris · 07-09-2004 12:40PM

as dabs.com delivery + jes.de delivery will lower any savings from dabs.com (price of item is 370 in Euro exc. delivery), how about the following from just jes.de:

Processor (AMD Athlon 64 3200+) - 200 EUR
HSF (Arctic Cooling Arctic Ultra 64) - 16 EUR
Motherboard (MSI K8N Neo Platinum) - 120 EUR
RAM (2 x DDR PC400 512MB Infineon Original) - 176 EUR
GPU (256MB PNY Verto GeForce 6800 GT GDDR3) - 400 EUR
Case (Chenbro Gaming Bomb Orange + Window) - 37 EUR
PSU (LC Power 120mm 550W Aktiv-PFC) - 35 EUR
DVD Writer (NEC ND-2510A Dual beige bulk) - 69 EUR
Hard Disk (Hitachi 160GB S-ATA Deskstar 7K250) - 97 EUR

Sub-total: 1150 EUR
Delivery: ca. 40 EUR
Grand total: ca. 1190 EUR inc. delivery

BloodBath · 07-09-2004 12:51PM

Naitkris you basically recomended what I did except you swapped the heatsink with a crap one that won't offer any overclocking potential.

Ram with lower timings which is alright if you want to save money but expect a significant performance drop especially on a64 systems and no overclocking potential.

That psu might be a higher wattage but it's a dodgey brand. The 380w one I recomended is a hell of a lot better.

Also the 6800 you listed is not in stock. Every part I listed is in stock.

BloodBath

naitkris · 07-09-2004 01:07PM

BloodBath wrote:

Naitkris you basically recomended what I did except you swapped the heatsink with a crap one that won't offer any overclocking potential.

if that's all i did you must have one really expensive HSF in place for your total cost to be more than 170 Euro more than the cost i came up with.

anyways, i swapped the GPU, PSU, RAM, HSF, HD and motherboard (guy doesn't need WLAN support so chose normal version without WLAN) - six things (seven things if you include the change of case colour, lol).

the HSF i chose is very good, not for overclocking, but still a great HSF at the price, pity no reviews out yet to convince you...

BloodBath wrote:

Ram with lower timings which is alright if you want to save money but expect a significant performance drop especially on a64 systems and no overclocking potential.

true, little overclocking potential, but shooterMac hasn't said he'll be overclocking it and seeing as there is a budget to go by, the Infineon memory i choose is a good cost cutter while at the same time keeping with quality products.

BloodBath wrote:

That psu might be a higher wattage but it's a dodgey brand. The 380w one I recomended is a hell of a lot better.

it's a an awesome PSU, none better at that price range, imo. it delivers quality power at an excellent price. read reviews for it (most of them are in German, French etc. but find an online translator), you'll see what i mean. pity people always go by the high price = better quality idea and don't bother reading reviews of products, there are so many bargains to be had...

BloodBath wrote:

Also the 6800 you listed is not in stock. Every part I listed is in stock.

it will be in stock sooner than the complete machine, so i've been told... all other out of stock items should be in stock in the next day or two also as i regularly see stuff be in stock one day and out of stock the next and back in stock the day after on jes.de

BloodBath · 07-09-2004 01:27PM

if that's all i did you must have one really expensive HSF in place for your total cost to be more than 170 Euro more than the cost i came up with.

That was retarded, I listed the things you swapped to make it cheaper, not just the hsf.

the HSF i chose is very good, not for overclocking, but still a great HSF at the price, pity no reviews out yet to convince you...

Not saying it's bad but it won't cool as good or as quietly as the zalman.

true, little overclocking potential, but shooterMac hasn't said he'll be overclocking it and seeing as there is a budget to go by, the Infineon memory i choose is a good cost cutter while at the same time keeping with quality products.

It's not just overclocking, it's timings which are very important for a64 systems. The ram you listed has the maximum timings possible of 3-4-4-8, the ram I listed has timings of 2-2-2-3. That will make a big difference in the performance of the machine. Also the lower timing ram will have the option of overclocking a fair bit if he wants. It's also a lot better at stock speeds.

it's a an awesome PSU, none better at that price range, imo. it delivers quality power at an excellent price. read reviews for it (most of them are in German, French etc. but find an online translator), you'll see what i mean. pity people always go by the high price = better quality idea and don't bother reading reviews of products, there are so many bargains to be had...

I didn't go on a psu based on price. I went on one that's well known to be a high quality brand that has steady rails and runs steady at it's stated output. Tagan. When I see 550w, unknown brand and 35e that leads me to beleive that it is not very well made. I haven't seen reviews but then again I haven't seen any good 550w psu for 35e.

it will be in stock sooner than the complete machine, so i've been told... all other out of stock items should be in stock in the next day or two also as i regularly see stuff be in stock one day and out of stock the next and back in stock the day after on jes.de

It's been out of stock for nearly 2 weeks now. How do you know it will be back in stock before the other machines? What if he wants to order the parts now?

BloodBath

naitkris · 07-09-2004 02:15PM

BloodBath wrote:

That was retarded, I listed the things you swapped to make it cheaper, not just the hsf.

it's not retarted if you read what i quoted you by. your initial statement of "Naitkris you basically recomended what I did except you swapped the heatsink with a crap one that won't offer any overclocking potential." was what got me to say that which i think you can understand. i was joking though as you did later on mention 2 or 3 other things i changed.

BloodBath wrote:

It's not just overclocking, it's timings which are very important for a64 systems. The ram you listed has the maximum timings possible of 3-4-4-8, the ram I listed has timings of 2-2-2-3. That will make a big difference in the performance of the machine. Also the lower timing ram will have the option of overclocking a fair bit if he wants. It's also a lot better at stock speeds.

i know this, but i chose the RAM i did as it's a cost cutter while at the same time being quality RAM and also the RAM is approved to work well with the MSI K8N Neo unlike a lot of other RAM that has been seen to be incompatable - even some very high-end modules won't work at all yet alone well with the MSI K8N Neo despite their good timings.

BloodBath wrote:

I didn't go on a psu based on price. I went on one that's well known to be a high quality brand that has steady rails and runs steady at it's stated output. Tagan. When I see 550w, unknown brand and 35e that leads me to beleive that it is not very well made. I haven't seen reviews but then again I haven't seen any good 550w psu for 35e.

"For the price of 50 euro it is unbeatable with the required achievement and quality. A true good deal in this category." - taken from http://www.tweakpc.de/cooling/tests/lcpower/lcpower_4.htm

"LC power the super silent gold actually fulfills all requirements of a modern power pack. It is strong, quiet and keeps the tensions very stable. All this would not surprise us with an expensive Enermax or Antec power pack, but with a power pack without a large name that costs half the price. ... Thor's hardware assigns here the Award "Thor's of silver Hammer"." - taken from http://www.thors-hardware.net/new_page/tests/allgem/nt_lcpower_550w_ssge/nt_lcpower_550wssge_seite3.html

there are 2 or 3 other reviews i remember of but can't find at the moment, was editors choice in one of the others too.

BloodBath wrote:

It's been out of stock for nearly 2 weeks now. How do you know it will be back in stock before the other machines? What if he wants to order the parts now?

because the other machine won't be in stock for another 2 or so weeks which is why this thread was started. the GPU has been re-ordered by jes.de a good while back and should be in theory be in stock before the pre-built machine. Otherwise the one from dabs.com is probably the way to go keeping costs down.

BloodBath · 07-09-2004 02:47PM

Was looking for reviews for the psu but there doesn't seem to be many.

I got one of the german ones translated. Their test system wasn't exactly stressful. A 2500xp and no mention of a graphics card. I'd be wary that's all when it comes to a 6800gt and an a64.

What are the amps on the rails?

BloodBath

naitkris · 07-09-2004 03:20PM

BloodBath wrote:

Was looking for reviews for the psu but there doesn't seem to be many.

http://www.silenthardware.de/reviews/psu/lc_super_silent_550_watt/index.html (received Gold award)
http://www.vtr-hardware.com/articles/a4528_0.html (compared to Fortron FSP 350 and Thermaltake PurePower 480W - the LC Power received editors choice in conclusion)
http://www.tweakpc.de/cooling/tests/lcpower/lcpower.htm
http://www.teccentral.de/artikel/artikel_325.html (Recommended)
http://www.materiel.be/alims/lcpower/page1.php ("Unquestionably one of the best quality/price ratio PSUs on the market")
http://www.thors-hardware.net/new_page/tests/allgem/nt_lcpower_550w_ssge/nt_lcpower_550wssge_seite1.html (received Silver award)

use http://babelfish.altavista.com/ to translate if needed.

BloodBath wrote:

What are the amps on the rails?

haven't a clue tbh.

BloodBath · 07-09-2004 04:36PM

Ok let me re-phrase that. There doesn't seem to be any from reputable english speaking sites.

Those translators suck.

BloodBath

shooterMac · 07-09-2004 08:42PM

many thanks to you all for the help
not really gonna OC anything(maybe the graphics card) & I'll probably get a new processor+mobo when the 3200 starts to age the ram situation seems to be my main concern plus you both seem at loggers over the PSU I can't decide on that either, can the mobo
handle 600 ddr when it comes out I think the athlons can only handle ram in multiples of 2.

Ciaran500 · 07-09-2004 09:08PM

Just get a Tagan. Great PSU with steady rails and plenty of voltage.

BloodBath · 07-09-2004 09:21PM

many thanks to you all for the help
not really gonna OC anything(maybe the graphics card) & I'll probably get a new processor+mobo when the 3200 starts to age the ram situation seems to be my main concern plus you both seem at loggers over the PSU I can't decide on that either, can the mobo
handle 600 ddr when it comes out I think the athlons can only handle ram in multiples of 2.

No problem. If you want better performance get the ram i picked out. If you don't mind losing performance get the ram he picked.

You could chance that psu but it is a chance. I have never seen a cheap high quality psu. They don't exist. Maybe that's alright but 35e for a good 550w psu just seems hard to beleive when all other top quality 550w psu's are 100e+.

The mobo can't handle anything more than ddr400 without overclocking. No motherboard can.

BloodBath

Mutant_Fruit · 07-09-2004 09:41PM

BloodBath wrote:

You could chance that psu but it is a chance. I have never seen a cheap high quality psu. They don't exist. Maybe that's alright but 35e for a good 550w psu just seems hard to beleive when all other top quality 550w psu's are 100e+.

I have to agree with him. 550watts for 35euro reminds me of qtech psu's. Hell, that psu is even cheaper than a qtec! And we all know how bad qtechs are rated when it comes to providing the power on the tin.

In other words, i'd be dubious at best. I wouldnt even touch a 45euro 550watt qtech from what i've read in the forums about em, and i wouldn't touch a 35euro 550watt simply because cheap 90% of the time doesn't mean good.

EDIT: This takes 533mhz ram (and runs it at 533mhz). Finally, we are getting above ddr3200

BloodBath · 07-09-2004 10:04PM

Cool I never saw that. I thought the new 3.73 prescotts were the first processors that could take advantage of them.

That means the ram won't be running 1:1 with the processor though doesn't it?

BloodBath

sub 1300/1400 euro PC

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