Sack o' Sullivan and The Goons that extended his Contract

funky penguin · 22-09-2007 4:57pm

Out of our group at the moment, France and Argentina definately deserve to be going through, with Argentina on top. The former for their performance under MASSIVE pressure last night, and the latter for their storming start to this world cup.

However, if Ireland do manage to pull off the impossible and score 4 tries while keeping the Argies away from their scoreline, then perhaps it would merit a place in the quarter finals. I mean, to pull off a victory like that would mean performing your socks off.

Oh wait. I just remembered the Namibia game.

is_that_so · 22-09-2007 5:08pm

Attractive Nun wrote:

So who do we want to start? Right now, I'm thinking -

15 - Girvin Dempsey (A bit defensive, but in better form than most. Would deal with any Hernandez kicking antics in a way Heymans couldn't)
14 - Geordan Murphy (Has to start, would prefer him at fullback but our other wings are in shocking form)
13 - Brian O'Driscoll
12 - Andrew Trimble (**** it, D'Arcy has been anonymous - I'd risk Trimble in the centre, not that he is playing well either)
11 - Dennis Hickie (Last match in an Ireland shirt? Has to turn it on)
10 - Ronan O'Gara (Meh, still too risky to start Wallace)
9 - Eoin Reddan
8 - Dennis Leamy
7 - David Wallace (No other options really)
6 - Simon Easterby (Did enough -v- France to retain his place)
5 - Paul O'Connell
4 - Malcolm O'Kelly (We need some basis for attack - lineout must be solid)
3 - John Hayes
2 - Jerry Flannery
1 - Simon Best (Horan not at the races)

Replacements: Marcus Horan, Rory Best (if fit), Alan Quinlan, Neil Best, Isaac Boss, Paddy Wallace, Shane Horgan

I am not so sure about the "sentimentality" of Hickie's last game. He hasn't one enough to warrant being included and we really should be saying thanks for the memories man.

And also Neil Best to start.

As to the question I really don't think we can score 4 tries. I think we'll be hard pushed to score one but I am hoping against hope we can at least win.

is_that_so · 22-09-2007 5:13pm

Stev_o wrote:

Reddan was trying to create something he was the main reason O Gara didnt just completely drop down and die because of the pressure from France's wing forwards. He was constantly trying to snipe where he could and get the opposition on their toes. Sorry all stringer does is pass a ball......a 10 year old can do that. ALL scrumhalfs in the modern game do more then pass a ball

Sorry but we cant play like Leinster for one we have Munster forwards who wouldnt have played that sort of style of a game. And even if they did it wouldnt have worked. O Driscoll and D'acry have been shocking and i dont care what anyone says bout of them were shockingly bad.

Dark days lie ahead

I'm inclined to agree. IMO it is time to start a rebuilding programme and hunt down young players who can replace the current misfiring batch.

samelterrance · 22-09-2007 5:16pm

It's an embarassment that this thread has even started.
Everyone in the Ireland Vs France thread who said we'd win were mad enough, but forsome to say we'll get 4 tries against Argentina is just ridiculous.

This side is a COMPLETE AND UTTER F*KIN JOKE, BAD DOESN'T EVEN BEGIN TO EXPLAIN IT ....

They don't deserve to beat the argies, they deserve to get the f*kin bus home after these performances, these guys are suppose to be top professionals, my arse

sinceryly,
very f*cked off irish fan

carlowboy · 22-09-2007 5:53pm

Attractive Nun wrote:

So who do we want to start? Right now, I'm thinking -

15 - Girvin Dempsey (A bit defensive, but in better form than most. Would deal with any Hernandez kicking antics in a way Heymans couldn't)
14 - Geordan Murphy (Has to start, would prefer him at fullback but our other wings are in shocking form)
13 - Brian O'Driscoll
12 - Andrew Trimble (**** it, D'Arcy has been anonymous - I'd risk Trimble in the centre, not that he is playing well either)
11 - Dennis Hickie (Last match in an Ireland shirt? Has to turn it on)
10 - Ronan O'Gara (Meh, still too risky to start Wallace)
9 - Eoin Reddan
8 - Dennis Leamy
7 - David Wallace (No other options really)
6 - Simon Easterby (Did enough -v- France to retain his place)
5 - Paul O'Connell
4 - Malcolm O'Kelly (We need some basis for attack - lineout must be solid)
3 - John Hayes
2 - Jerry Flannery
1 - Simon Best (Horan not at the races)

Replacements: Marcus Horan, Rory Best (if fit), Alan Quinlan, Neil Best, Isaac Boss, Paddy Wallace, Shane Horgan

That's a shocking team for having Trimble at 12 alone.

I'd give Quinlan at second row a go with Ferris at 6 in place of Easterby. Bring Hickie back in at 11. And leave the rest. I can't see any other improvements to the side.

I'd drop POC for Quinlan btw.

SantryRed · 22-09-2007 6:02pm

I actually do think we'll beat the Argentinians but as our games go against them, there is no chance in either team scoring 4 tries to be honest.

Not getting that bonus point against France last night, I think, has knocked us out of the World Cup.

Hope they prove me wrong but i doubt it.:D

Supercell · 22-09-2007 6:03pm

I really cannot see us beating them.

All they have to do is camp around midfield, we'll hand them penalty after penalty on a plate which will be enough.

I have no doubt that we have the players to beat them.
I also have no doubt we have a mastermind (EOS) in charge that ensures we don't.

the_syco · 22-09-2007 6:05pm

France bet us 25 to 3. How many did the Argies beat France by? Add it to 25, for a rough figure of what the Argies will probably get.

The Denouncer · 22-09-2007 6:19pm

We haven't a hope of beating Argentina, not a billionth of a hope. Not the remotest tiniest speck of a hope. In fact, if we lose by less than 15 points I will be amazed, astonished and flabbergasted. I will walk around in a daze for weeks on end. If we manage to stop Argentina scoring 4 tries I will open the champagne and drink the bottle in one gulp. If we score more than 14 points I will do cartwheels down O'Connell St in the nude, while drinking another bottle of champagne and eating Mongolian sea turtles.
So the answer to the OPs question in short is..no.

SantryRed · 22-09-2007 6:28pm

The Denouncer wrote:

If we score more than 14 points I will do cartwheels down O'Connell St in the nude, while drinking another bottle of champagne and eating Mongolian sea turtles.

I'm keeping you on that one mate:D

ninebeanrows · 22-09-2007 6:29pm

The Denouncer wrote:

We haven't a hope of beating Argentina, not a billionth of a hope. Not the remotest tiniest speck of a hope. In fact, if we lose by less than 15 points I will be amazed, astonished and flabbergasted. I will walk around in a daze for weeks on end. If we manage to stop Argentina scoring 4 tries I will open the champagne and drink the bottle in one gulp. If we score more than 14 points I will do cartwheels down O'Connell St in the nude, while drinking another bottle of champagne and eating Mongolian sea turtles.
So the answer to the OPs question in short is..no.

I disagree,

I think we'll beat Argentina but not by 4 tries, why? Because the team are more than good enough to beat the Argies and will have nothing to lose.

At the end of the day, if the Argies had of been beaten by the French this was the position which we were expected to be in, having to beat Argentina to get through but unfortunately for us that result on night 1 of the Wcup has ruined us as has our total lack of imagination in the first 3 games.

TheJesusWarrant · 22-09-2007 7:00pm

SantryRed wrote:

Not getting that bonus point against France last night, I think, has knocked us out of the World Cup.

Not getting the bonus point against Georgia is what really did the damage.

JC 2K3 · 22-09-2007 7:02pm

Nah, it's more like:

-Not getting a decent points difference against Namibia.
-Not getting the bonus point against Georgia.
-Not getting a decent points difference against Georgia.
-Not getting a bonus point against France.

dixiefly · 22-09-2007 7:03pm

If Eddie does not make significant changes for the next game then the IRFU should turf him out on his ass asap. He would be demonstrating complete inflexibility and would be showing that proving that he was not wrong was more important than picking an attack minded team for a game in which we need to score 4 tries and win by 7 points. The Argie game is all or nothing and if Eddie does not treat it in that way then it should be bye bye Eddie.

siochain · 22-09-2007 7:49pm

Attractive Nun wrote:

So who do we want to start? Right now, I'm thinking -

15 - Girvin Dempsey (A bit defensive, but in better form than most. Would deal with any Hernandez kicking antics in a way Heymans couldn't)
14 - Geordan Murphy (Has to start, would prefer him at fullback but our other wings are in shocking form)
13 - Brian O'Driscoll
12 - Andrew Trimble (**** it, D'Arcy has been anonymous - I'd risk Trimble in the centre, not that he is playing well either)
11 - Dennis Hickie (Last match in an Ireland shirt? Has to turn it on)
10 - Ronan O'Gara (Meh, still too risky to start Wallace)
9 - Eoin Reddan
8 - Dennis Leamy
7 - David Wallace (No other options really)
6 - Simon Easterby (Did enough -v- France to retain his place)
5 - Paul O'Connell
4 - Malcolm O'Kelly (We need some basis for attack - lineout must be solid)
3 - John Hayes
2 - Jerry Flannery
1 - Simon Best (Horan not at the races)

Replacements: Marcus Horan, Rory Best (if fit), Alan Quinlan, Neil Best, Isaac Boss, Paddy Wallace, Shane Horgan

15 - Girvin Dempsey
14 - Horgan
13 - Brian O'Driscoll
12 - D'Arcy
11 - Dennis Hickie
10 - G Murphy
9 - Eoin Reddan
8 - Dennis Leamy No other option
7 - Quinlan
6 - Simon Easterby
5 - Paul O'Connell
4 - Malcolm O'Kelly
3 - John Hayes
2 - Jerry Flannery
1 - Simon Best

I would love to see Quinlan let loose and Murphy at ten, we have go for this big time.

Have to say I'm sick today racking my brain as how its gone so wrong.

wingnut · 22-09-2007 8:14pm

I would seriously have put Murphy on at 10 last night too. What had we got to loose the way O'Gara was playing.

Marty DiBergi · 22-09-2007 8:31pm

The Denouncer wrote:

We haven't a hope of beating Argentina, not a billionth of a hope. Not the remotest tiniest speck of a hope. In fact, if we lose by less than 15 points I will be amazed, astonished and flabbergasted. I will walk around in a daze for weeks on end. If we manage to stop Argentina scoring 4 tries I will open the champagne and drink the bottle in one gulp. If we score more than 14 points I will do cartwheels down O'Connell St in the nude, while drinking another bottle of champagne and eating Mongolian sea turtles.
So the answer to the OPs question in short is..no.

Puttin' a lot of pressure on yourself there Denouncer. We'll be trawlin' through the threads if the Fifth and Sixth Miracle of Fatima come through.:)

Big_G · 22-09-2007 8:58pm

I wouldn't include Trimble on a wing ever again as a professional rugby player. Twice he was out of position and twice France capitalised with tries because of it. The back three in general were terrible.

As for Argentina, forget about it. They want it more, and they are a better team, not a grouping of individuals. We might have chance of preventing them scoring a boatload of tries if we played zone defence and actually had a back three to speak of.

I don't even want to watch rugby anymore. This team have no desire, and the control freak manager has sucked the imaginative play out of all of his players (Geordan Murphy being a prime example - three seasons ago people were wondering why he was kicking counters instead of running them, it was because the boss was telling him to do that.)

AAARRGgghhh. So annoying.

Oh, and if you want a few reasons for the poor show look first to the number ten shirt, then look to the poor lineout play, poor rucking and mauling, poor kicking from the hand and the tee, poor chasing of kicks, as previously stated no imagination, poor defensive strategy (I HATE the drift defence zone works better, but you need a back three and a back row who can cover a lot of ground). Bout the only thing that we have done ok is scrummaging, and we haven't even done that well.

crosstownk · 22-09-2007 11:15pm

Here's my 2 cents.

Ireland's RWC is over. Over. We just don't have the form to do what is required against the Argies. It's really as simple as that. And even if we do make it to the second round by some jammy twist of fate, we'll be annihilated by NZ.

Like any Irish supporter, I'm hoping for a jammy twist of fate - but hope springs eternal. I've tickets for the next game, and while last nights defeat took the edge off, I'll still get stuck in behind the team - why wouldn't I? But I don't, for one second, expect the 4 tries*

*Please God, prove me wrong.

Dwilly · 22-09-2007 11:23pm

Sorry, but don't we have to beat Argentina by over 90 points or something? Even if we get the bonus point we'll be level on points but they've a huge pd advantage?

Shouldn't we be hoping for Georgia to whip France? I for one am hopeful.

djsctt · 23-09-2007 12:02am

Dwilly wrote:

Sorry, but don't we have to beat Argentina by over 90 points or something? Even if we get the bonus point we'll be level on points but they've a huge pd advantage?

Shouldn't we be hoping for Georgia to whip France? I for one am hopeful.

No, we need to win, getting the bonus point for tries scored and deny them a bonus point. Then we would be level on points but our win over them would rank us higher. I think points difference would only come into play if a three way tie occurred.

crosstownk · 23-09-2007 12:05am

Dwilly wrote:

Sorry, but don't we have to beat Argentina by over 90 points or something? Even if we get the bonus point we'll be level on points but they've a huge pd advantage?

No. We need to beat Argentina by more than 7 points AND we need to score 4 tries or more and not let Argentina score 4 tries. If my reading of it is correct, we would then be on level points with Argentina and before it goes to score difference, it goes to the head to head of the two level teams - in this instance we would be on top as we would have beaten Argentina. For this to happen it is essential that France beat Georgia.

philstar · 23-09-2007 12:10am

djsctt wrote:

No, we need to win, getting the bonus point for tries scored and deny them a bonus point. Then we would be level on points but our win over them would rank us higher. I think points difference would only come into play if a three way tie occurred.

if argentina get knocked out that way, that would be a complete injustice.

they've scored the most tries the most points then anyone else in the pool and deserve to go through imo

RugBeir · 23-09-2007 12:36am

suppafly wrote:

I really don't know what he was thinking about putting in trimble. Murphy and hickie r lght years ahead of him. He was constantly out of position. he even came in side for the try france almost got in the first half and was at fault for the second. Again where the f**k was he??
.

Alot of people seem to singling out the novice Trimble as a scapegoat for a dreadful all round Irish display. Aggree Murhpy,Hickey or Dempsey on wing would have been better, but not his fault the 'special one' EOS picked him? What was he supposed to do - offer his jersey back to the older guys?

IMO he didnt do any worse than average on a very below average night.

But more importantly, Suppafly, can you tell me where was Dempsey for the first try - hes the guy with no 15 on his back, our best player in the world cup by all accounts.

I did see him bottling the catch for the second try, but I cannot see where he was hiding for the first one? Anyone ideas ?

djsctt · 23-09-2007 12:45am

philstar wrote:

if argentina get knocked out that way, that would be a complete injustice.

they've scored the most tries the most points then anyone else in the pool and deserve to go through imo

fair point, but its a pretty unlikely scenario anyway tbh.

eroo · 23-09-2007 12:53am

i dont care about 'injustice' man,i just want the team to go ahead and get the win,i think we can do it!!!!!!!!!

Snickers Man · 23-09-2007 1:04am

Dwilly wrote:

Sorry, but don't we have to beat Argentina by over 90 points or something? Even if we get the bonus point we'll be level on points but they've a huge pd advantage?

Shouldn't we be hoping for Georgia to whip France? I for one am hopeful.

We actuallly want France to whip Georgia. Here's why:

if France beat Georgia but fail to get a bonus point, they will end up on 14 points.
Argentina already have 14 points.
We have 9 points and can only get a maximum of 14 points.

If France fail to get a bonus point against Georgia and we beat Argentina and score four tries, the top three teams will all have 14 points. In that scenario, points differnce comes into play.

Given their 63-3 victory over Namibia, Argentina's points difference is 98pts better than ours. So in that scenario we would have to beat Argentina by 50 points, score four tries and make sure they score no more than three to progress.

If France get a bonus point against Georgia, we only need to beat Argentina with a bonus point and prevent them from getting one.

so win by more han 7pts and score four tries.

That's all.

admsitio · 23-09-2007 5:31am

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ironingbored · 23-09-2007 9:00am

If Ireland come out and play scintillating rugby and score four tries and go through I will be delighted. I think a performance like that alone would merit a place in the QFs. I would however really feel sorry for the Argies. If on the other we are beaten I will be shouting for Argentina all the way. What an inspiration! The black sheep of world rugby, the stone in the shoe of the IRB, yet humble enough to let their rugby on the pitch do the talking. Since the England game, our team (and coach) have been doing their talking (and playing) on the O2, Tesco and AIB platinum crap cards commercials.

When I heard O'Gara's ad for AIB platinum I thought it was actually for charity because he began with, "one of the important things in life" blah blah blah...then he starts talking about some ridiculous credit card!

Part of me wants Ireland to play the above game while another part wants honesty, dedication, humility, skill and belief to win through by ensuring Argentina get to the semi final.

kvN-Paris · 23-09-2007 10:33am

I hope that we'll win !

We must have the bonus point and win by a gap of 50 points ! :eek:
So, Georgians must do a result vs France !

GO ON IRELAND !

Sack o' Sullivan and The Goons that extended his Contract

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