IVCA race canceled this Sunday

Beasty · 27-03-2015 7:55pm

Lumen wrote: »

So you don't want racing on open roads?

If you give anyone the choice of open or closed roads, who would choose open roads

I do though fully recognise the impracticalities of that "option"

Raam · 27-03-2015 7:58pm

Beasty wrote: »

If you give anyone the choice of open or closed roads, who would choose open roads

I do though fully recognise the impracticalities of that "option"

Does this mean that you want all races in Ireland to be on closed roads?

Beasty · 27-03-2015 7:59pm

Just to add a little - when this whole thing kicked off within Fingal the "closed road" option was "offered". The committee considered it (and have done so a number of times since). I was one of those who highlighted some of the impracticalities, which is why we never pursued it as an option

Beasty · 27-03-2015 8:00pm

Raam wrote: »

Does this mean that you want all races in Ireland to be on closed roads?

If that was a readily available option I would be delighted for all races to be on closed roads. That's got to be generally safer for everyone

I do not consider that is a readily available option though

ROK ON · 27-03-2015 8:01pm

Beasty

The man who would frustrate the combined might of Jeremy Paxman and Vincent Browne.

Raam · 27-03-2015 8:03pm

Beasty wrote: »

If that was a readily available option I would be delighted for all races to be on closed roads. That's got to be generally safer for everyone

I do not consider that is a readily available option though

Do you want us to end up in a situation where closed roads are a requirement in order to hold a road race? I'm not clear on what your end goal is.

wav1 · 27-03-2015 8:05pm

The happenings this week just might kick start a proper reaction from our governing body now I feel.Board meeting tonight I hear.Also talks of a scheduled meeting with higher than normal Garda pencilled in for mid April.At least if we get some kind of a workable solution its better than where we are.The Fingal problem has been going on quite some time now.Biggest impact here I suppose has been the loss of the traditional Swords league,but only approx 4 open races.The new problem is far more wide spread as already this season on March 27th there has been 5 open races in Meath.6 more in April.1 in May.2 in June,4 in July,3 in August..Figures may be a little out but that's 21 open races that may be lost.BTW im not making little of my Fingallian friends,but this new one hits a lot of panic buttons and just might force someones hand..Bit of an issue in parts of the West I heard this evening also.

Beasty · 27-03-2015 8:12pm

Raam wrote: »

Do you want us to end up in a situation where closed roads are a requirement in order to hold a road race? I'm not clear on what your end goal is.

Absolutely not. I realise racing on Open roads is likely to be the only viable option. I want a solution that is workable. That may be something similar to the Ulster solution.

The problem I see here is there is a long tradition of road racing in Ireland and may people's views are heavily influenced by that tradition. On the face of it there is no harm in looking at how things have happened in the past. However the world moves on. Cycling has become a victim of it's own success in Ireland. Some roads are getting "taken over" by racers on a weekly basis (and in some cases the same roads can be used 2 or 3 times in a week). We are seeing reports of fields of 200 or more (more then even the UCI permit). We have examples of motorists (and recently cyclists) posting stuff on social media that does our case no favours

In my view we need to try and reach a compromise. A compromise means both sides have to concede something. It means things will not be as they used to be. That to me is a progression - we cannot turn back time

Lusk_Doyle · 27-03-2015 8:14pm

Diarmuid wrote: »

:pac::pac::pac:
Have you ever actually tried to get sponsorship?

No. I'm not involved in that. However, as a local business owner in Fingal, I take exception to the boycott call on local businesses made several posts earlier and for one, I would be willing to sponsor racing events in the local area.

Beasty · 27-03-2015 8:16pm

Lusk_Doyle wrote: »

I would be willing to sponsor racing events in the local area.

And as Treasurer of a "local" club I am more than happy to take his money

(while not committing to putting any business his way)

bcmf · 27-03-2015 8:17pm

wav1 wrote: »

just might force someones hand.....

It has to force someones hand. The biggest fear is now if other area's get wind of this and see how easy it to shut down races then its game over!

Beasty · 27-03-2015 8:24pm

bcmf wrote: »

It has to force someones hand. The biggest fear is now if other area's get wind of this and see how easy it to shut down races then its game over!

In my view its not "game over". As a club we've been trying to keep our heads down in the hope a solution would be found before contagion set in. Alas that's clearly not happened and we are facing an escalation of the issue. That means there is a lot more at stake which equally means there will be more of an "incentive" to reach a solution

I personally think there will be a solution. Not the solution that everyone here necessarily wants, but one that is workable.

bcmf · 27-03-2015 8:32pm

There is an alternative solution that could be looked at.
I mentioned before a crit series
For example: A Fingal crit series on a Sat afternoon during the summer months orgainised by the local clubs together.
Get local business involved to try and cover costs of road closures.
Get a good atmosphere going around towns like Malahide village, Swords village, Blanch village etc etc

07Lapierre · 27-03-2015 8:42pm

Swords Village??

bcmf · 27-03-2015 8:45pm

07Lapierre wrote: »

Swords Village??

OK. Rule Swords outta that. Nothing good ever came outta Swords. Plenty of good things went in for sure....:P

07Lapierre · 27-03-2015 8:47pm

Raam wrote: »

Let's not complicate this. It's a yes/no question. Do you want road races on open or closed roads?

As a rider I'd like to race on fully closed roads
As a race organiser I want to organise races on open roads

See...this is complicated and a yes/no answer is too simplistic.

Lusk_Doyle · 27-03-2015 8:50pm

Beasty wrote: »

And as Treasurer of a "local" club I am more than happy to take his money
(while not committing to putting any business his way)

Is that money still "resting" in your account?

pprendeville · 27-03-2015 8:53pm

Beasty wrote: »

In my view its not "game over". As a club we've been trying to keep our heads down in the hope a solution would be found before contagion set in. Alas that's clearly not happened and we are facing an escalation of the issue. That means there is a lot more at stake which equally means there will be more of an "incentive" to reach a solution

I personally think there will be a solution. Not the solution that everyone here necessarily wants, but one that is workable.

I sure do hope a compromise can be found. Seems to be the case alright that your club was acting pretty exemplary in trying to find a compromise and now that momentum is building (unfortunately against the cycling scene) that CI can step up to the plate along with those who put on the shows at the weekend along with the racers themselves and sort this out for once and for all.

RockWerchter · 27-03-2015 8:57pm

It's a bit off topic but Dungarvan CC have taken the step of capping the field size in their open race at the weekend. Was told it came as a result of the field sizes seen at the Des.

Raam · 27-03-2015 10:20pm

07Lapierre wrote: »

As a rider I'd like to race on fully closed roads
As a race organiser I want to organise races on open roads

See...this is complicated and a yes/no answer is too simplistic.

I didn't ask what you wanted to race on. The question is: Who believes that road races should only be held on closed roads?

roverrules · 27-03-2015 10:31pm

QueensGael wrote: »

Unlikely, the OPW hasn't been too keen on bike racing in the park for some years now. Duathlons are allowed, but not road racing.

Would you not just do 10 laps or whatever and sprint 50 meters. Or better still do a Le Mans style, sprint 50 meters to the bikes and then do the laps

aworthycause · 27-03-2015 10:34pm

Can I just ask. As a racer this obviously is hugely concerning, but other road users cannot tell the difference between a race and a sportive. One is a series of tight groups moving along, causing rolling obstructions, whereas the other is a long line of barely connected singles and small groups often strung out a long way. Could it be that the popularity of non-competitive cycling is a nail in racing's coffin? If that didn't sound too dramatic.
Just maybe it's not all the fault of us racers.

07Lapierre · 27-03-2015 10:38pm

Raam wrote: »

I didn't ask what you wanted to race on. The question is: Who believes that road races should only be held on closed roads?

As a rider I believe all races would be much safer if they were on closed roads.

As a race organiser I believe it's much easier to organise a race on open roads rather than have to organise a race on fully closed roads.

Lusk_Doyle · 27-03-2015 10:40pm

Beasty wrote: »

In my view we need to try and reach a compromise. A compromise means both sides have to concede something. It means things will not be as they used to be. That to me is a progression - we cannot turn back time

How about a madison type event with one team member on a bike and the other in a car?

wav1 · 27-03-2015 10:51pm

Lusk_Doyle wrote: »

How about a madison type event with one team member on a bike and the other in a car?

That's already happening..its called a sticky bottle.

Lusk_Doyle · 27-03-2015 11:04pm

wav1 wrote: »

That's already happening..its called a sticky bottle.

Ah yeah but this would be sanctioned as opposed to a blind eye turned to it!

Beasty · 27-03-2015 11:29pm

That depends - will the car be staying on the correct side of an unbroken white line? Will it observe the stop signs? What happens if the cyclist is (legally) breaking the speed limit?

RobFowl · 28-03-2015 12:17am

Beasty wrote: »

That depends - will the car be staying on the correct side of an unbroken white line? Will it observe the stop signs? What happens if the cyclist is (legally) breaking the speed limit?

Legally breaking the speed limit! Is that Jeremy Clarkeson posting ???

Beasty · 28-03-2015 12:24am

RobFowl wrote: »

Legally breaking the speed limit! Is that Jeremy Clarkeson posting ???

Well as we all know the speed limits do not apply to cyclists but do to motorists - hence if the cyclist is (legally) going faster the car has break the law to keep up ....

Beasty · 28-03-2015 12:27am

Of course he's not wearing a helmet, but that's a different thread....

Maybe we could appoint him as IVCA Safety Officer - I believe he's not got any better offer at this moment in time

adoks2008 · 28-03-2015 1:16am

Eamonnator wrote: »

Well, at least, Cycling Ireland can't be blamed for this.

Its about time Cycling Ireland stood up and supported clubs doing their very best to organise events - the silence from NCR is deafening....

Beasty · 28-03-2015 9:27am

I've removed a post and a few reponses to it. If anyone has a snide comment, keep it to yourself

Any questions PM me - do not respond in-thread

granda · 28-03-2015 9:47am

Before reading this thread I had a bit of a brain wave last night after speaking to a couple of guys who are racing karts today near to Drogheda and seeing pics of the circuit, which is outdoors, that it could make a great wee crit circuit, which could fill gaps if there are other such places in the rest of the country. Maybe these are all alternatives to racing on the road that could be looked into?

greenmat · 28-03-2015 10:03am

granda wrote: »

Before reading this thread I had a bit of a brain wave last night after speaking to a couple of guys who are racing karts today near to Drogheda and seeing pics of the circuit, which is outdoors, that it could make a great wee crit circuit, which could fill gaps if there are other such places in the rest of the country. Maybe these are all alternatives to racing on the road that could be looked into?

My club looked into that over a year ago, were looking for an absolute fortune to hire for a couple of hours. But maybe worth trying again.

wav1 · 28-03-2015 10:07am

granda wrote: »

Before reading this thread I had a bit of a brain wave last night after speaking to a couple of guys who are racing karts today near to Drogheda and seeing pics of the circuit, which is outdoors, that it could make a great wee crit circuit, which could fill gaps if there are other such places in the rest of the country. Maybe these are all alternatives to racing on the road that could be looked into?

IF its the same one im thinking of [about 12k from Drogheda]I agree it could be worth another look at,but as per above post they were looking big money.

Beasty · 28-03-2015 10:23am

greenmat wrote: »

My club looked into that over a year ago, were looking for an absolute fortune to hire for a couple of hours. But maybe worth trying again.

wav1 wrote: »

IF its the same one im thinking of [about 12k from Drogheda]I agree it could be worth another look at,but as per above post they were looking big money.

I mentioned this within the club a day or two ago as something we may wish to revisit.

As a matter of interest does anyone know how much Mondello charges? The figures mentioned for the kart track were so high we never progressed it, but if we can establish a going rate for this sort of stuff we may be able to negotiate them down. Hopefully it would be something similar to Corkagh Park in set up (although I'm not expecting to get away with €30 for a couple of hours which is what CI charge clubs for Corkagh) - ideally needing no-one from the track to oversee and making it an easy sounce of a few quide for them with absolutely no hassle

wav1 · 28-03-2015 10:30am

Beasty wrote: »

I mentioned this within the club a day or two ago as something we may wish to revisit.

As a matter of interest does anyone know how much Mondello charges? The figures mentioned for the kart track were so high we never progressed it, but if we can establish a going rate for this sort of stuff we may be able to negotiate them down. Hopefully it would be something similar to Corkagh Park in set up (although I'm not expecting to get away with €30 for a couple of hours which is what CI charge clubs for Corkagh) - ideally needing no-one from the track to oversee and making it an easy sounce of a few quide for them with absolutely no hassle

Not involved at all in Mondllo races but I did hear a figure mentioned one time of e3 per rider per race.

granda · 28-03-2015 3:17pm

Beasty wrote: »

I mentioned this within the club a day or two ago as something we may wish to revisit.

As a matter of interest does anyone know how much Mondello charges? The figures mentioned for the kart track were so high we never progressed it, but if we can establish a going rate for this sort of stuff we may be able to negotiate them down. Hopefully it would be something similar to Corkagh Park in set up (although I'm not expecting to get away with €30 for a couple of hours which is what CI charge clubs for Corkagh) - ideally needing no-one from the track to oversee and making it an easy sounce of a few quide for them with absolutely no hassle

I think with the direction things seem to be going, especially in leinster, we need to look at all ideas and if it takes a bit of negotiation and maybe a promise of a long term deal, which could also mean racing on the winter, on such tracks, but some intervention from CI would probably help alot when trying to secure any deal

Inquitus · 28-03-2015 3:36pm

granda wrote: »

I think with the direction things seem to be going, especially in leinster, we need to look at all ideas and if it takes a bit of negotiation and maybe a promise of a long term deal, which could also mean racing on the winter, on such tracks, but some intervention from CI would probably help alot when trying to secure any deal

Road racing is built on racing on roads, I enjoy racing round in circles as much as the next person, at Mondello, or at Corkagh, but it's not the future, it's a fun diversion from road racing, not a replacement.

nilhg · 28-03-2015 4:07pm

Inquitus wrote: »

Road racing is built on racing on roads, I enjoy racing round in circles as much as the next person, at Mondello, or at Corkagh, but it's not the future, it's a fun diversion from road racing, not a replacement.

Absolutely agree, our inter club league uses Mondello for some legs and it's dead handy for me, only up the road really but the two races I rode there last year would be my least favourite (does that make sense?) of the 7 or 8 I rode, I don't know if a season of them would have any attraction.

Chips Lovell · 28-03-2015 4:08pm

I think it's important to stay focussed on the actual problem and not get distracted by red herrings. Bunch sizes are not the issue. Race organisers aren't saying Guards are objecting to the size of fields. They're saying the guards will no longer assist at races that don't have a road closure order.

nilhg · 28-03-2015 4:17pm

Jep Gambardella wrote: »

I think it's important to stay focussed on the actual problem and not get distracted by red herrings. Bunch sizes are not the issue. Race organisers aren't saying Guards are objecting to the size of fields. They're saying the guards will no longer assist at races that don't have a road closure order.

Any information if that's just a Fingal/Meath issue or something that's going to be a nationwide policy?

I know this has come up before but just wondering if in the discussions with guards/council there was any mention of timing of races, would actively trying to avoid busy periods have any effect? More of a weekend thing I suppose than midweek evenings for club league races where availability of light is the limiting factor, but those races are nearly by definition outside busy times.

07Lapierre · 28-03-2015 4:30pm

Daylight is not a limiting factor during the summer months.

The Gardai are applying the road traffic act, which applies to the whole country.

Beasty · 28-03-2015 4:35pm

nilhg wrote: »

Any information if that's just a Fingal/Meath issue or something that's going to be a nationwide policy?

AFAIK it is largely a local issue, certainly at this stage. Certain individuals within the Gardai have decided to apply certain policies locally. I am also aware that other stations have been approached within those areas to request they "toe the line" - the guy in Balbriggan has been attempting to escalate the whole issue, which was the trigger for certain recent developments. I am sure that's one of the reasons CI have not been attempting to escalate it too much themselves. The risk is that could force a national policy which the cycling community really does not want.

Wishbone Ash · 28-03-2015 5:30pm

greenmat wrote: »

If anyone would like to Join me on a YOUTH SPIN this Sat 28th March at 11am from North Street Business Park, Swords, just down from Carnegie Court Hotel. Doing laps of Corduff Circuit, (Last years Ben McKenna Circuit) were the problems with racing OUR roads started in 2012. Protect our sport for the future. All welcome, spread the word. Quiet protest and a chance to meet and chat to other racing Cyclists about our problems racing In Fingal and Meath.

We didn't envisage such strong headwinds! :eek: Some of the youngsters (and adults) were bolloxed by the time they cycled to the start line!

greenmat · 28-03-2015 6:02pm

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

We didn't envisage such strong headwinds! :eek: Some of the youngsters (and adults) were bolloxed by the time they cycled to the start line!

Very tough day in the wind for the young lads. We have to organise a proper Race Training Spin around the Corduff Circuit, some day we may have to race it again.

Borderfox · 28-03-2015 8:42pm

Can we organise a duathalon in the Phoenix Park with a 2 metre run?

Loved racing in the Park :-)

Eamonnator · 28-03-2015 8:54pm

First pot, I ever won was in the Phoenix Park, May 1991, 2nd Vet.

Lusk_Doyle · 28-03-2015 10:55pm

Eamonnator wrote: »

First pot, I ever won was in the Phoenix Park, May 1991, 2nd Vet.

Man, you are olde! I added the 'e' to emphasize the level of old!

Eamonnator · 28-03-2015 11:14pm

Lusk_Doyle wrote: »

Man, you are olde! I added the 'e' to emphasize the level of old!

Sure am. It was Tuesday the 14th May. I regraded my licence to Vets, when I hit the big 40. It was my first race,as a vet. I can't remember, who got first vet, but it was probably either Sean Lally or Seamus Kennedy. I am pretty sure, though, that only one of them was racing that evening, because if the two of them had been racing, I would have been 3rd vet.
Those Tuesday evening races were great fun. I really enjoyed them.

IVCA race canceled this Sunday

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