Motorhome Exhibition NEC, Birmingham

airhead_eire · 04-02-2015 1:20pm #1

Anybody heading over in a couple of weeks time ? It looks to be good.

piuswal · 05-02-2015 9:57pm

Was there a few years ago
Very Good#
All you need is money

Betsy Og · 06-02-2015 10:04am

Flew in and out on a day trip. Very enjoyable, but tiring (slept in car in multi-storey in Dublin airport having driven up the country - the few hours in a hotel wouldnt have been worth it). A night over there would have been good.

Only snag is that there's only so much you can bring home in carry on luggage or a checked in bag. I'd book a bag on the way back anyway - ye olde wheelbrace etc may not be allowed in hand luggage:D

The halls are great, unless you're in the market to buy a unit (I wasnt) you can stroll around ooohing and ahhhhing, getting ideas for when you win the lotto. Loads of accessory stalls, loads of campsite stands to get ideas for future holidays. For example I sussed out retro-fitting ATC for my caravan - and then got it done in the Summer.

More or less my idea of heaven really..........:cool:

airhead_eire · 07-02-2015 12:29am

We are heading over in the T5 camper so luggage restrictions won't be prob ! We're only going for the craic of it really but might be handy if there's bargains to be had.....any excuse to get away really !

Betsy Og · 27-02-2015 4:46pm

How did you fare out at the show?, decent value???

airhead_eire · 27-02-2015 7:58pm

The show itself was absolutely fantastic. It had everything - caravans, motorhome, log cabins, tents, trailer tents etc. Anything related to the outdoors and it was there ! There was such a selection there that it was truly mind-boggling. Unfortunately, due to the existing exchange rate, it was not a good time to buy. We were looking specifically for outdoor chairs and although the selection was huge, it made more sense to buy them here in Ireland due to the strength of the Sterling.
One eye opener was that some of the motorhome vendors were willing to sell you a new motorhome minus the VAT if it was coming out of the UK i.e. to Ireland. For example, one vendor had a Ducato based motorhome that was retailing at £38k. They were willing to export it to Ireland for £30k due to the lack of VAT.

airhead_eire · 27-02-2015 8:00pm

The show itself was absolutely fantastic. It had everything - caravans, motorhome, log cabins, tents, trailer tents etc. Anything related to the outdoors and it was there ! There was such a selection there that it was truly mind-boggling. Unfortunately, due to the existing exchange rate, it was not a good time to buy. We were looking specifically for outdoor chairs and although the selection was huge, it made more sense to buy them here in Ireland due to the strength of the Sterling.
One eye opener was that some of the motorhome vendors were willing to sell you a new motorhome minus the VAT if it was coming out of the UK i.e. to Ireland. For example, one vendor had a Ducato based motorhome that was retailing at £38k. They were willing to export it to Ireland for £30k due to the lack of VAT.
I left there longing for a brand new VW T5 camper !

Morgan The Moon · 28-02-2015 3:04pm

airhead_eire wrote: »

The show itself was absolutely fantastic. It had everything - caravans, motorhome, log cabins, tents, trailer tents etc. Anything related to the outdoors and it was there ! There was such a selection there that it was truly mind-boggling. Unfortunately, due to the existing exchange rate, it was not a good time to buy. We were looking specifically for outdoor chairs and although the selection was huge, it made more sense to buy them here in Ireland due to the strength of the Sterling.
One eye opener was that some of the motorhome vendors were willing to sell you a new motorhome minus the VAT if it was coming out of the UK i.e. to Ireland. For example, one vendor had a Ducato based motorhome that was retailing at £38k. They were willing to export it to Ireland for £30k due to the lack of VAT.

You would still have to pay VAT in Ireland !!

airhead_eire · 01-03-2015 11:50am

It doesn't matter - a person is still saving on the initial purchasing price by £8k GBP. By paying VAT here, do you mean the VRT ?

Morgan The Moon · 01-03-2015 4:13pm

airhead_eire wrote: »

It doesn't matter - a person is still saving on the initial purchasing price by £8k GBP. By paying VAT here, do you mean the VRT ?

No. VRT and VAT are two separate Taxes.

When you bring your vehicle back to Ireland you will have to declare certain aspects regarding your ownership, value, how old is the vehicle, what category does the vehicle fall under. The weight of the vehicle may impact on the VRT payable.

As a private owner you personally are liable for the VAT. Revenue can ask to see your receipts etc. They will calculate the VAT payable at the Irish rates. Depending where you bought the vehicle the VAT rate here can be higher than the original country of purchase.

Second hand vehicles can usually escape the VAT issue. There are strict rules concerning how long you have personally owned the vehicle.

IE. You live abroad and bring a vehicle back, if you have owned it for a qualifying period you may escape both Taxes. Revenue consider it is up to you to prove your case regarding qualifying for exemptions.

Worse thing to consider, if you do not engage with revenue and just bring a vehicle in and chance it. They can confiscate the vehicle should they decide to.

Intra-Community Acquisitions
An intra-Community acquisition is a transaction that results in a person in Ireland being obliged to account for Irish VAT on a vehicle purchased or otherwise acquired from a person in another EU Member State. This happens in the case of:

Any 'new means of transport' supplied by any person, including a private individual, in another Member State and dispatched or transported by them, or by the purchaser, into the State. This includes a 'new means of transport' that enters the EU as an import in a Member State other than Ireland, but is transported on to Ireland. A 'new means of transport' is always liable to VAT in the country where it is to be used, regardless of where, by whom and from whom it is purchased.

Any other means of transport supplied by a VAT-registered person in any other Member State and dispatched or transported by them to a person carrying on business in Ireland, but NOT INCLUDING any such vehicle sold under the Special Scheme or Margin Scheme for second-hand goods in that Member State. These are liable to VAT in the country where the supplier is located.

airhead_eire · 03-03-2015 5:37pm

Yeah, I'm aware of the differences between VRT and VAT but wasn't sure where you were coming from. I wasn't aware that VAT also had to be paid on new vehicles. However, I have brought a few vehicles in from the UK (not new) and never paid VAT, only the relevant VRT.
Either way, even if VAT has to be paid on a new vehicle, surely getting the VAT knocked off in the UK still is a saving i.e you're paying the Irish VAT and not the Irish + UK VAT ?

Betsy Og · 03-03-2015 9:08pm

The rule is that if the vehicle is older than 6 months or has more than 6,000 miles (or maybe its both) then its not subject to Irish VAT on import.

So basically 2nd hand no Irish VAT on import (UK VAT would have been paid by the first owner some time back), if new then no UK VAT (provided proof of export) but pay Irish VAT on import. Our rate of 23% is higher than theirs (I think 20%).

So the "no VAT" on a new van isnt a show offer, or a good offer, its just how the VAT law works. If you had to pay VAT twice it would be totally uneconomic (way dearer than buying new in Ireland) and also unnecessary.

The great thing about buying a caravan in the UK is no VRT, so great deals to be had (picked up one a few years back).

airhead_eire · 03-03-2015 10:23pm

Betsy Og wrote: »

The rule is that if the vehicle is older than 6 months or has more than 6,000 miles (or maybe its both) then its not subject to Irish VAT on import.

So basically 2nd hand no Irish VAT on import (UK VAT would have been paid by the first owner some time back), if new then no UK VAT (provided proof of export) but pay Irish VAT on import. Our rate of 23% is higher than theirs (I think 20%).

So the "no VAT" on a new van isnt a show offer, or a good offer, its just how the VAT law works. If you had to pay VAT twice it would be totally uneconomic (way dearer than buying new in Ireland) and also unnecessary.

The great thing about buying a caravan in the UK is no VRT, so great deals to be had (picked up one a few years back).

They seem to get their pound of flesh either way !!

Morgan The Moon · 03-03-2015 10:52pm

Betsy Og wrote: »

So the "no VAT" on a new van isnt a show offer, or a good offer, its just how the VAT law works.

Warranty issues can arise with regard to the vehicle as well. So the sales guy wasn't offering a good deal really.

Either way the Tax Man makes you pay, and those fellah's in Brussels have their slice of cake as well.

Betsy Og · 04-03-2015 1:47am

Morgan The Moon wrote: »

Warranty issues can arise with regard to the vehicle as well. So the sales guy wasn't offering a good deal really.

Either way the Tax Man makes you pay, and those fellah's in Brussels have their slice of cake as well.

Well, while the EU (or the EEC at the time) might have introduced VAT it does get paid to local Revenue, not to Brussels. VRT seems totally contrary to free movement of goods.

Oh well, death and taxes innit?!!

04-03-2015 3:03pm

Betsy Og wrote: »

VRT seems totally contrary to free movement of goods.

It is. no other European country has an equivalent.
If a vehicle manufacturer was to setup in Éire they they would have to pay VRT on the motors they produce.

piuswal · 05-03-2015 1:38am

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

It is. no other European country has an equivalent.
If a vehicle manufacturer was to setup in Éire they they would have to pay VRT on the motors they produce.

As far as I can see at least 6 other EU countries have a tax additional to Vat as do Norway and Iceland.

05-03-2015 3:49am

I stand corrected.

wrote:

The EU has commented that although VRT is legal it is totally contrary to the spirit of the single market and has recommended that it be phased out over a 5 to 10 year period‘.

Whilst it may be ‘unpopular’ this doesn’t mean that it’s illegal. A Revenue spokesperson pointed out to Motorcheck.ie that Ireland is only one of sixteen european members that impose VRT. i.e. Denmark, Spain, Greece, Italy, Ireland, Netherlands, Austria, Portugal, Finland, Hungary, Latvia, Malta, Slovenia, Cyprus and Poland.

The official legal position in Europe can be found on the Commission’s website here where it states “At present there is little Community legislation, or harmonisation of national fiscal provisions, applied by the Member States in the area of passenger car taxation. Therefore, it is for each Member State to lay down national provisions for the taxation of these cars. The few pieces of legislation currently in force mainly cover the cross-border aspects of car taxation”.

Morgan The Moon · 05-03-2015 8:37pm

Betsy Og wrote: »

Well, while the EU (or the EEC at the time) might have introduced VAT it does get paid to local Revenue, not to Brussels.

A portion of the VAT collected goes to Brussels. Every time you pay VAT, think of all the E.U. part funded "Aires" and "Stelplatz" you are helping to pay for !!!

airhead_eire · 06-03-2015 1:41pm

Morgan The Moon wrote: »

So the sales guy wasn't offering a good deal really.

I cannot agree with this, sorry ! So you pay VAT and VRT here, I get that. But buying it in the UK for export saves £8K off the original price. So it's £30K versus £38K before you bring it to Ireland. A lot of other vendors did not offer to sell their vehicles excluding VAT so you're paying the full UK price.
All I meant was, that particular vendor was willing to "export" to save a potential overseas buyer the VAT (so you're not paying VAT twice). Where other vendors selling similar were not offering the VAT off their prices. I know that there are other costs awaiting when you bring it home e.g. VRT, VAT etc

Morgan The Moon · 07-03-2015 10:13pm

airhead_eire wrote: »

I cannot agree with this, sorry ! So you pay VAT and VRT here, I get that. But buying it in the UK for export saves £8K off the original price. So it's £30K versus £38K before you bring it to Ireland. A lot of other vendors did not offer to sell their vehicles excluding VAT so you're paying the full UK price.
All I meant was, that particular vendor was willing to "export" to save a potential overseas buyer the VAT (so you're not paying VAT twice). Where other vendors selling similar were not offering the VAT off their prices. I know that there are other costs awaiting when you bring it home e.g. VRT, VAT etc

If you bought the vehicle in the U.K. and you did not have a U.K. address the supplier would have to register the vehicle some how!

The E.U. legislation with regards to new vehicles deems that the VAT must be ultimately paid in the country of registration of the vehicle. Basically double taxation of VAT on vehicles is not possible.

It is fair to say that the Guy offered to exclude the VAT. He should not even consider he could charge you the VAT if you explicitly told him you would bring the vehicle back to Ireland. Other sales persons that said they would not exclude the VAT, either did not want the sale or they did not know the rules.

If he was offering a good deal, did he offer to supply all your possible extras with out VAT. Charge you cash for those on a separate invoice and then give you the invoice for the base vehicle only ?

Were you tempted ? if so, I hope everything goes well for you.

moodrater · 07-03-2015 11:20pm

"If you are importing a new car from another EU country you have to pay VAT (Value Added Tax), usually when registering the car. A new car means a car that has been in service for 6 months or less, or has been driven for 6,000 kilometres or less. The VAT is payable even where you have paid VAT in the other country."
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/moving_country/moving_to_ireland/coming_to_live_in_ireland/importing_car_into_ireland.html

Motorhome Exhibition NEC, Birmingham

Comments