A shotgun wedding in Fermanagh?

ardmacha · 12-02-2015 10:45am

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

So much for their spiel about being devout Catholics when they bring weapons into the house of their God.

On a technicality, the shooting was near, but not in the grounds of, the church. Had it been in the church, no doubt the wedding too would have been cancelled.

I note that when the priest was interviewed this the radio on Morning Ireland he said that there was often an undercurrent of tension at traveller weddings, of course the PC interviewer felt the need to inject that this wasn't unique to traveller weddings! I'd say the priest dreads a booking for travellers.

gozunda · 12-02-2015 10:48am

Unfortunately it wasn't the only traveller wedding that was in the news this week

http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/news/tragic-jacqueline-mcdonaghs-wedding-day-at-the-age-of-18-turned-her-family-into-film-stars-30980147.html

12-02-2015 10:48am

ardmacha wrote: »

On a technicality, the shooting was near, but not in the grounds of, the church. Had it been in the church, no doubt the wedding too would have been cancelled.

There was also a stabbing. My guess is, if there had been no shooting, there would still have been at least one person in the church with a knife on them.

skooterblue2 · 12-02-2015 10:49am

conorhal wrote: »

There's no bending of any law, simply the application of it as it stands. You have to show up at a church with a marriage licence from the state, which they didn't do in the South because they wouldn't have gotten one, so actually it's N. Ireland and it's problematic recognition of Travellers as an ethnic minority with a special status and exemption on the age at which they marry that's the problem.

They dont need a licence from the State, they need a blessing from a priest, that is good enough. There used to be a priest who used to do it specially. His get out of jail card was "it was better than them having sex out side of marriage". Tough culture. But that was at least 5 years back. Personally I think it is facilitating Statutory rape.

gozunda · 12-02-2015 11:00am

ardmacha wrote: »

On a technicality, the shooting was near, but not in the grounds of, the church. Had it been in the church, no doubt the wedding too would have been cancelled.

The priest was effectively told by the family to continue with the wedding. It would appear that he was not aware that someone had actually been shot. He claimed to have been shocked when he heard a man had died.

The would appear to be some difficulties in the investigation this brutal story

Two men shot and a third man allegedly stabbed.

The victims of the shooting were then bundled into a van and driven to a PSNI station. The van was abandoned outside the police station.

The continuing of the wedding effectively meant that the scene of the crime was not preserved.

One person who fled the scene was apprehended in Lisnaskea

The rest of the wedding party left the scene of the crime and headed for the border, where they entered the south - with the result that the PSNI are going to have a very difficult time taking witness statements or questioning members of the party and other suspects.

It is of interest that the wedding party appeared to have no connection with the town of Newtownbuttler and travelled from another jurisdiction just to get married. This remains unexplained - were they expecting trouble or is there advantages to getting married in the North as opposed to the south?

I don't envy the PSNIs job with this incident tbh. The NI taxpayer will also be footing the bill for this latest incursion ..,

RobertKK · 12-02-2015 11:00am

foggy_lad wrote: »

Poor girl will be too busy getting over the many beatings she has in store to be worried about such things!

Sure all the women want 50 shades of grey?

conorhal · 12-02-2015 11:07am

skooterblue2 wrote: »

They dont need a licence from the State, they need a blessing from a priest, that is good enough. There used to be a priest who used to do it specially. His get out of jail card was "it was better than them having sex out side of marriage". Tough culture. But that was at least 5 years back. Personally I think it is facilitating Statutory rape.

You're not married without a licence from the state, at best the priest in question (who I believe to be misguided) is consecrating a 'Romeo and Juliet' relationship that the state itself has been wrestling with legislation to accomodate within the confines of the legal age of consent. There's no shortage of support to decriminalise sexual acts between teenagers of a similar age while maintaining a ban on adult-minor relationships.

seamus · 12-02-2015 11:10am

gozunda wrote: »

were they expecting trouble

It wouldn't be a traveller wedding without a bit of trouble.

Hotels don't routinely discriminate against travellers because they don't like them. It's because there's a high chance of a fight developing in the car park with slash hooks, or just a plain old brawl in ballroom.

gozunda · 12-02-2015 11:10am

Regarding the age of the parties getting married

In the south

Age requirement
If you are ordinarily resident in the Irish State, the minimum age at which you may marry is 18 years (unless you have a Court Exemption Order). This is the case even if you marry outside of Ireland. Even if you are not ordinarily resident in the Irish State, you must be over 18 years of age if you wish to marry someone in Ireland.

There is no requirement for parental consent to a marriage, irrespective of the ages of the parties concerned.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/birth_family_relationships/getting_married/legal_prerequisites_for_marriage.html

This is for Northern Ireland

Who can be married in Northern Ireland?

Any two persons may marry in Northern Ireland provided that:

both persons are at least 16 years of age on the day of their marriage - anyone under 18 will need parental consent, or if appropriate an order of a court dispensing with consent
they are not related to each other in a way which would prevent their marrying
they are unmarried (any previous marriage must have been ended by divorce, death or annulment)
they are not of the same sex
they are capable of understanding the nature of a marriage ceremony and of consenting to marriage

http://www.nidirect.gov.uk/sm/guidance-on-marriage-procedures-in-northern-ireland

Explains why the young pair (he 16, she 17) were doing an across the border style wedding. In the US, Mexico afaik is also used for similar purposes.

Forest Demon · 12-02-2015 12:02pm

People discriminate against travellers as a group (not a race) for what they do and not who they are. It's a large section letting its own group down. Any traveller in education or making an effort getting nothing but praise in the media.

I know a few travellers who are grand but even they are weary of each other. Are people supposed to be blindly impartial?

Look up Tower Hill and see the history of the situation and see if this is the type of behaviour that breeds discrimination. They are their own worse enemy and the media and Polititions are doing them no favours by pretending this problem does not exist.

Odyssey 2005 · 12-02-2015 12:08pm

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Where does the money come from for these lavish weddings?

Copper, Tarmac and ropey generators.:P

jmayo · 12-02-2015 12:18pm

ardmacha wrote: »

On a technicality, the shooting was near, but not in the grounds of, the church. Had it been in the church, no doubt the wedding too would have been cancelled.

I note that when the priest was interviewed this the radio on Morning Ireland he said that there was often an undercurrent of tension at traveller weddings, of course the PC interviewer felt the need to inject that this wasn't unique to traveller weddings!

I heard that this morning and I couldn't believe the fooking cheek of the b*tch.
How many non traveller funerals and weddings have pitch battles ?

Yeah the odd guy may get too drunk and say something, but they are usually quickly escorted off the premises.
You don't have people going at each other with slash hooks and now guns.

A traveller funeral in Ballymote, Co. Sligo a number of years back ended with guys being chased, by other travellers with shotguns, through elderly people's houses beside the graveyard.

It's the shyte talk engaged in by people like that interviewer that excuses the violence that appears to be endemic in the traveller community.

tom_k · 12-02-2015 12:21pm

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

So much for their spiel about being devout Catholics when they bring weapons into the house of their God.

Well I didn't hear any concrete evidence that weapons were brought inside the church in this case but it's happened before.

http://www.mayonews.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=14776:slash-hook-attack-at-ballinrobe-confirmation-mass&catid=23:news&Itemid=46

eviltwin · 12-02-2015 12:43pm

jmayo wrote: »

I heard that this morning and I couldn't believe the fooking cheek of the b*tch.
How many non traveller funerals and weddings have pitch battles ?

Yeah the odd guy may get too drunk and say something, but they are usually quickly escorted off the premises.
You don't have people going at each other with slash hooks and now guns.

A traveller funeral in Ballymote, Co. Sligo a number of years back ended with guys being chased, by other travellers with shotguns, through elderly people's houses beside the graveyard.

It's the shyte talk engaged in by people like that interviewer that excuses the violence that appears to be endemic in the traveller community.

This is the elephant in the room that pc authorities seem unwilling to challenge. Anyone can be violent but it appears to be part of the culture of travellers. Any disagreement or feud can only be solved by violence. It's seen as just part of life and therefore accepted and this is being passed down to kids who grow up seeing this as normal. Most kids don't grow up seeing their dad's and uncles kicking lumps out of each other. For travellers kids it's normal and the authorities just let it happen. The traditional traveller way of life is no place for children.

jmayo · 12-02-2015 1:02pm

eviltwin wrote: »

This is the elephant in the room that pc authorities seem unwilling to challenge. Anyone can be violent but it appears to be part of the culture of travellers. Any disagreement or feud can only be solved by violence. It's seen as just part of life and therefore accepted and this is being passed down to kids who grow up seeing this as normal. Most kids don't grow up seeing their dad's and uncles kicking lumps out of each other. For travellers kids it's normal and the authorities just let it happen. The traditional traveller way of life is no place for children.

The thing is Pavee point and the usual apologists will in the future be on some radio show or tv program complaining that some poor traveller couple have just had their wedding ruined because a hotel cancelled the reception once they found out they were travellers.

Of course there will be charges of racism, discrimination, lack of knowledge, etc levelled at the hotel.

Not once will the supporters of the couple actually admit the reason the hotel is doing it is because of the type of shyte that occurred yesterday.

If travellers want to be treated as a homogenous ethnic group then they better get their act together as a group and do something about the crap that often happens once they get together socially.

Dan_Solo · 12-02-2015 1:22pm

jmayo wrote: »

The thing is Pavee point and the usual apologists will in the future be on some radio show or tv program complaining that some poor traveller couple have just had their wedding ruined because a hotel cancelled the reception once they found out they were travellers.

Of course there will be charges of racism, discrimination, lack of knowledge, etc levelled at the hotel.

Not once will the supporters of the couple actually admit the reason the hotel is doing it is because of the type of shyte that occurred yesterday.

If travellers want to be treated as a homogenous ethnic group then they better get their act together as a group and do something about the crap that often happens once they get together socially.

What I find most hilarious is that they'll be crowing about their minority status for no end of freebie handouts, but if anybody makes any judgement on them besides how much free stuff they should get there'll be uproar.

keano_afc · 12-02-2015 2:08pm

Travellers. It's the 99% that give the 1% a bad name.

JimAllister · 12-02-2015 3:29pm

Maybe if we build a wall dividing Britain and Ireland then these travellers don't enter into our wee Ulster

whiskeyman · 12-02-2015 3:35pm

JimAllister wrote: »

Maybe if we build a wall dividing Britain and Ireland then these travellers don't enter into our wee Ulster

Problem is, they'll probably offer to build it at the best price boss.

Then watch it crumble a little while later...

kingchess · 12-02-2015 4:40pm

JimAllister wrote: »

Maybe if we build a wall dividing Britain and Ireland then these travellers don't enter into our wee Ulster

Very smart idea-build a wall on the Ocean floor:rolleyes:

PeteFalk78 · 12-02-2015 4:47pm

gozunda wrote: »

....... that the PSNI are going to have a very difficult time taking witness statements or questioning members .....,

Sure couldn't the PSNI use an interpreter?

Mearings · 12-02-2015 4:58pm

realies wrote: »

Well actually when I heard it first I thought it was a dissent republican attack.

You mean that you can only be married to the cause?

PeteFalk78 · 12-02-2015 5:00pm

kingchess wrote: »

Very smart idea-build a wall on the Ocean floor:rolleyes:

Following your pedantry, who says the wall needs to be on the ocean floor?

Mearings · 12-02-2015 5:09pm

PeteFalk78 wrote: »

Following your pedanticness, who says the wall needs to be on the ocean floor?

Not being pedantic but the noun is 'pedantry'.

josip · 12-02-2015 5:10pm

mfceiling wrote: »

No manners or respect to shoot anyone and even worse to do it in a church.

Although we now know that it wasn't in the church or grounds, why would it be worse to shoot someone in a church than somewhere else such as their home or in a school for example?

seamus · 12-02-2015 5:19pm

josip wrote: »

Although we now know that it wasn't in the church or grounds, why would it be worse to shoot someone in a church than somewhere else such as their home or in a school for example?

Because travellers claim to be very religious, so it would seem like a mortal sin to them to commit such an act inside a church.

The Garda rumour is that if you find yourself in trouble/surrounded in a traveller camp, make your way to the shrine to Mary (every camp has one), and the travellers won't do anything to you under the gaze of their lady.

Renegade Mechanic · 12-02-2015 5:24pm

seamus wrote: »

Because travellers claim to be very religious, so it would seem like a mortal sin to them to commit such an act inside a church.

The Garda rumour is that if you find yourself in trouble/surrounded in a traveller camp, make your way to the shrine to Mary (every camp has one), and the travellers won't do anything to you under the gaze of their lady.

No. They don't

jmayo · 12-02-2015 5:30pm

seamus wrote: »

Because travellers claim to be very religious, so it would seem like a mortal sin to them to commit such an act inside a church.

The Garda rumour is that if you find yourself in trouble/surrounded in a traveller camp, make your way to the shrine to Mary (every camp has one), and the travellers won't do anything to you under the gaze of their lady.

You will be a long time there waiting for the guards to arrive.
And if they do they will probably do a quick u-turn and leave.

I have seen the guards method of dealing with travellers, travellers in fact that were using private property as a toilet.

The guards came, stayed in their car and quickly left.

mynamejeff · 12-02-2015 5:59pm

I have a theory.

Two hundred years or so ago the class of scumbag would call chavs/scallys or dole monkeys today were rightfully excluded from society for being thieving abusive ignorant smelly folk.

To counteract this they made up a fairy tale history about travelling from India or being the lost tribe in Jews or what ever BS they tell people doing social experiments with them.
They are no more a minority or special culturally than a group of jobless celtic fans who spend all day Thursday in some rat infested pub swilling cheap larger and snorting coke.

There is and always have been groups who neither want nor deserve a place in the society with the rest of us. Yet any one who dares to point out this glaringly obvious fact is branded a racist by someone who has never been closer to an actual traveller than big fat gypsy wedding and properly banned by some overly PC mod too

mikom · 12-02-2015 6:07pm

mynamejeff wrote: »

I that a theory.

Two hundred years or so ago the class of scumbag would call chavs/scallys or dole monkeys today were rightfully excluded from society for being thieving abusive ignorant smelly folk.

To counteract this they made up a fairy tale history about travelling from India or being the lost tribe in Jews or what ever BS they tell people doing social experiments with them.
They are no more a minority or special culturally than a group of jobless celtic fans who spend all day Thursday in some rat infested pub swilling cheap larger and snorting coke.

There is and always have been groups who neither want nor deserve a place in the society with the rest of us. Yet any one who dares to point out this glaringly obvious fact is branded a racist by someone who has never been closer to an actual traveller than big fat gypsy wedding and properly banned by some overly PC mod too

They sound almost as bad as a rereg troll.........

My name is URL · 12-02-2015 10:41pm

They're on about this on Primetime atm

It's not a big deal apparently!

Filmer Paradise · 12-02-2015 10:59pm

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Where does the money come from for these lavish weddings?

Your USC.;)

Filmer Paradise · 13-02-2015 1:36am

My name is URL wrote: »

They're on about this on Primetime atm

It's not a big deal apparently!

Nottin to see here Boss.

Move along there..........

Boring username · 13-02-2015 9:09am

My name is URL wrote: »

They're on about this on Primetime atm

It's not a big deal apparently!

This. What hope is there of addressing violence in the travelling community when the media already have a policy of downplaying it. Yet another free pass from those who know what is best for us.

gozunda · 13-02-2015 9:13am

My name is URL wrote: »

They're on about this on Primetime atm

It's not a big deal apparently!

Well it did happen in another country ...<insert sarcasm emoticon>

CatFromHue · 13-02-2015 7:11pm

The guy who was shot has been named as Barney McGinley.

There are plenty of videos on youtube of a younger Barney McGinley, his son I believe, challenging people to fights and then the fights themselves.

Sheep Lover · 13-02-2015 7:14pm

CatFromHue wrote: »

The guy who was shot has been named as Barney McGinley.

There are plenty of videos on youtube of a younger Barney McGinley, his son I believe, challenging people to fights and then the fights themselves.

Salt of the earth types.

A shotgun wedding in Fermanagh?

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