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Indie Week........ application fee?

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  • 26-01-2012 9:40pm
    #1
    MrStuffins
    Registered Users Posts: 19,148 ✭✭✭✭


    Hi all.

    So just a quick thing I wanna run by some of the Boardsies here who would have more knowledge of these things than I would.

    Someone I know suggested that I submit my band to play "Indie Week Ireland" this year. I read up about it and it sounded good I guess.

    So I then asked about the submission process and was told that I had to do it through an online auction website. Hmmm......... really?

    So it turns out (to the best of my knowlegde at the moment) that if I want to apply to play these gigs, we have to pay them $30. Just to apply.

    Is this normal? What is the $30 for? it seems a bit.... strange?

    Anyway, has anyone any info? Maybe it's just something really simple and i'm being too sussy?


Comments

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    #2
    flameboy87
    Registered Users Posts: 209 ✭✭flameboy87


    It is regular for users of Sonicbids to charge for entry in to their competitions. Usually this is due to the fact that these competitions are organised to make money, not necessarily to look for new talent. The problem is that many artists are so desperate to 'make it' in the music industry that they are willing to pay to enter these competitions.

    The way I see it, if you are good enough you will get yourself plenty of gigs locally and these will lead to more national gigs, and so on.

    IMO, you should never have to pay to play your own music and competitions should never charge you to enter.


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    #3
    eire1
    Registered Users Posts: 651 ✭✭✭eire1


    Unless you win this which lets you get to play Indie Week Canada for free it's not worth it. The venues for IW Ireland are Sweeneys, and The Grand Social and one gig in Belfast. €25 odd euro to play a gig in 1/2 of these venues. No thanks


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    #4
    Herb Powell
    Registered Users Posts: 3,097 ✭✭✭Herb Powell


    DON'T DO IT OP
    Pay-to-play is a scam.


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    #5
    flameboy87
    Registered Users Posts: 209 ✭✭flameboy87


    eire1 wrote: »
    €25 odd euro to play a gig in 1/2 of these venues

    Exactly.....and you might not even get selected to play, so it may be €25 to not even play at all. Plus you can add on the price of signing up to Sonicbids. Why is everything in music all about money??


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    #6
    cloptrop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,923 ✭✭✭cloptrop


    flameboy87 wrote: »
    Exactly.....and you might not even get selected to play, so it may be €25 to not even play at all. Plus you can add on the price of signing up to Sonicbids. Why is everything in music all about money??

    It always has been , They just paint the past as alot more innocent. The hit factory was around since motown and im sure before.


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    #7
    Talaghn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 42 ✭Talaghn


    I have a small amount of knowledge on this because Im good friends with the guy that runs the Indie Week here and although i agree with not paying Sonic Bids.... I was told that the guy in Canada wanted to do the gigs to knock a similar sort of crowd here out of being the only ones that do it.... main reason as it is very very clicky!

    I wont say who the crowd is...

    I also said about not liking the Sonic Bids System and he agreed.. but its how they get bands in Canada.... Just Like Castle Palooza do here....


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    #8
    HeartShake
    Registered Users Posts: 40 ✭HeartShake


    The fee also covers your application for IW Canada, which is cool.

    We've played IW Canada twice and Ireland once. The people running it are the soundest, most passionate people and the gigs are always great fun. I'd highly recommend it.


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    #9
    Fandango
    Registered Users Posts: 795 ✭✭✭Fandango


    Dont like that fee at all myself! They claim its to make sure only talented and interested bands apply and only go for events that their music fits but there are many other ways to do that without charging the bands. To me its simply another example of how musicians are used as fast cash earners for the rest of the industry....Rant over! ;)


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    #10
    cloptrop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,923 ✭✭✭cloptrop


    AS pink floyd once said
    "welcome to the machine"


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    #11
    godfrey
    Registered Users Posts: 414 ✭✭godfrey


    So it's $30 Canadian, eh? Jesus lads, cop on and do the gig or don't be wasting bandwidth whinging over a pittance...

    Are you in or out!!

    g


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    #12
    MrStuffins
    Registered Users Posts: 19,148 ✭✭✭✭MrStuffins


    godfrey wrote: »
    So it's $30 Canadian, eh? Jesus lads, cop on and do the gig or don't be wasting bandwidth whinging over a pittance...

    Are you in or out!!

    g

    What are you on about? Do you represent Indie Week?

    I never said i was playing some sort of gig. Indie Week don't claim that the fee of $30 Canadian is for playing a gig. It's $30 canadian to apply.

    Now, I don't know about you, but when I pay approx €23 for something, I want to know what i'm paying for.

    If your attitude to applying for things is that some guy takes €23 from you, you have no idea what it's for, when you ask him what it's for he doesn't answer you (i've done this), and you still think "Ah sure it's a pittance", then YOU sir....................


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    #13
    Fandango
    Registered Users Posts: 795 ✭✭✭Fandango


    godfrey wrote: »
    So it's $30 Canadian, eh? Jesus lads, cop on and do the gig or don't be wasting bandwidth whinging over a pittance...

    Are you in or out!!

    g

    The good old promoter attitude! Sure €23 between 4 people in a band is nothing. Meanwhile, I make a killing from 100 or so bands applying, most not getting to play, and the bands that do play wont see a cent either. Dont know how IW works specifically but its about time bands stopped falling for this pay to possibly play rubbish!


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    #14
    godfrey
    Registered Users Posts: 414 ✭✭godfrey


    First off, no I don't have anything to do with IW, but I know the guy who runs it and I think he's an upstanding guy.

    As for the 'promoter attitude' and the 'killing'!! It takes months of planning and hard work to set up competitions like this. I ran the Rock to Bialystok competition in Limerick last year and cannot afford to do it again this year because of the commitment of time and effort it took. It also cost me a lot of money. I think Can$30 is a small fee, it is affordable, and if the principle of that bothers you, I think you're not really prepared for a life in the music or any other business. I'm in the sound side of this business for 33 years and I can guarantee you, it's not a bad deal.

    To thos bands who are entering, I wish you the best of luck...

    g


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    #15
    MrStuffins
    Registered Users Posts: 19,148 ✭✭✭✭MrStuffins


    godfrey wrote: »
    First off, no I don't have anything to do with IW, but I know the guy who runs it and I think he's an upstanding guy.

    As for the 'promoter attitude' and the 'killing'!! It takes months of planning and hard work to set up competitions like this. I ran the Rock to Bialystok competition in Limerick last year and cannot afford to do it again this year because of the commitment of time and effort it took. It also cost me a lot of money. I think Can$30 is a small fee, it is affordable, and if the principle of that bothers you, I think you're not really prepared for a life in the music or any other business. I'm in the sound side of this business for 33 years and I can guarantee you, it's not a bad deal.

    To thos bands who are entering, I wish you the best of luck...

    g

    Lad, I don't think you're actually getting it.

    So, you're saying that you ran Rock to Bialtstok last year and it cost you loads of money. So because you failed at this, you think it's ok for Indie Week to charge bands €23 for absolutely nothing? What are they paying for exactly? They're just paying to apply? Are you for real?

    You say "It's not a bad deal"... HOW IS IT NOT A BAD DEAL??? I'm paying them €23 to consider us for a gig. How the bloody hell is that a GOOD deal?

    It's funny how you say i'm not prepared for life in music or any other Businessm i've been in business years now. But it doesn't take years of experience to realise that paying €23 for absolutely nothing is not a good deal :rolleyes:


    Edit: SO tell me, since you've proclaimed this "not a bad deal"... can you tell me exactly what the fee is for? What is my money used for?


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    #16
    cloptrop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,923 ✭✭✭cloptrop


    Its not a good deal when you consider you are playing for free. Why pay to audition to play for free. You could do that in the street for nothing.


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    #17
    flameboy87
    Registered Users Posts: 209 ✭✭flameboy87


    As for the 'promoter attitude' and the 'killing'!! It takes months of planning and hard work to set up competitions like this. I ran the Rock to Bialystok competition in Limerick last year and cannot afford to do it again this year because of the commitment of time and effort it took. It also cost me a lot of money. I think Can$30 is a small fee, it is affordable, and if the principle of that bothers you, I think you're not really prepared for a life in the music or any other business. I'm in the sound side of this business for 33 years and I can guarantee you, it's not a bad deal.


    There are far more ways to make money from this, if you run it properly there is simply no need to charge the bands a cent, especially if they dont get to even play the damn thing.

    As for your own Rock to Bialystok, the fact that it cost you alot of money means you didn't run it very well. Its the easy option for promoters to charge the bands, why not charge the sound engineers who 'might' do the gig, the light engineer who 'might' do the gig. Simple as this, musicians should be treated the same as the sound engineer and any other people involved in shows because light engineers and sound engineers need bands as much as we need them!!!!


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    #18
    Fandango
    Registered Users Posts: 795 ✭✭✭Fandango


    flameboy87 wrote: »
    There are far more ways to make money from this, if you run it properly there is simply no need to charge the bands a cent, especially if they dont get to even play the damn thing.

    Indeed. In fact by doing this, they are hurting their own show. Any band worth their salt and with any decent experience wouldnt touch these types of shows in a million years. Im sure many here know about The King Kong Club. While I really dont like the whole crowd vote thing in competitions (altho they make it more of a fun gig than a competition so dont mind it there), they put on a big show, they have the extra overheads in that it is a competition so have to give out prizes, they use a big venue which isnt cheap to rent out....yet dont feel the need to charge bands. Why? Because they put the effort into getting funding elsewhere in sponsorship etc. Making the bands pay is the easy option instead of actually putting in the work yourselves.

    Just to finish, didnt quote it but the comment flame quoted that it takes months of planning etc to set up a show like this.....which takes longer and costs more to set up, a band or the show?


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    #19
    godfrey
    Registered Users Posts: 414 ✭✭godfrey


    Well I'm delighted to have been given such a great insight into my own work from someone who clearly knows nothing of what I do or the competition I ran.

    Is'n the internet full of experts and wonderful knowledge...

    g


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    #20
    MrStuffins
    Registered Users Posts: 19,148 ✭✭✭✭MrStuffins


    godfrey wrote: »
    Well I'm delighted to have been given such a great insight into my own work from someone who clearly knows nothing of what I do or the competition I ran.

    Is'n the internet full of experts and wonderful knowledge...

    g
    Excuse me there "g", since yo have put yourself forward as an expert and have defended Indie Week's work, can yo please bother your arse to read my posts and answer my questions?

    What is the money for? Why are bands paying to apply? What is the money being used for and why should these fees be covered by the bands?


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    #21
    godfrey
    Registered Users Posts: 414 ✭✭godfrey


    As I said before, I am not connected with Indie Week, so tone down the aggression, and maybe try to find out the answers from Indie Week organisers.

    g


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    #22
    MrStuffins
    Registered Users Posts: 19,148 ✭✭✭✭MrStuffins


    godfrey wrote: »
    As I said before, I am not connected with Indie Week, so tone down the aggression, and maybe try to find out the answers from Indie Week organisers.

    g

    I have and they won't answer me.

    So if that's the case, considering you have absolutely no idea what the money is used for, why exactly do you think this is "not a bad deal"?


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    #23
    Herb Powell
    Registered Users Posts: 3,097 ✭✭✭Herb Powell


    godfrey wrote: »
    Well I'm delighted to have been given such a great insight into my own work from someone who clearly knows nothing of what I do or the competition I ran.

    Is'n the internet full of experts and wonderful knowledge...

    g
    It doesn't take an expert to know that pay to play is a bullshiit, get-rich quick ploy for cowboy promoters.


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    #24
    cloptrop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,923 ✭✭✭cloptrop


    Herb Powell wrote: »
    It doesn't take an expert to know that pay to play is a bullshiit, get-rich quick ploy for cowboy promoters.

    Cloptrop takes note , finally a way to make money from music, he fires his guitar to one side and gets a printer. Time to make some flyers mother ****er.


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    #25
    MrStuffins
    Registered Users Posts: 19,148 ✭✭✭✭MrStuffins


    cloptrop wrote: »
    Cloptrop takes note , finally a way to make money from music, he fires his guitar to one side and gets a printer. Time to make some flyers mother ****er.

    I'm putting on a massive gig somewhere in a few months. Wanna play??

    Well, just give me €50 and i'll listen to your music and consider you for the gig!

    Now I know what you're thinking: "Wow, what a deal!!". But don't worry, this isn't a scam! it'll only cost you €50 to apply to play my gig! You can pay me by just giving me your Credit Card details and your Bank Details!


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    #26
    Fandango
    Registered Users Posts: 795 ✭✭✭Fandango


    MrStuffins wrote: »
    I have and they won't answer me.

    Are the warning lights going off yet? I seriously hope so! People who refuse to reply either 1. Have something to hide or 2. Are very disorganised. Reminds me of a certain battle of the bands many signed up for, paid the admin fee and never happenned. People who know what im talking about (NBOTB) did you get refunded?


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    #27
    Fandango
    Registered Users Posts: 795 ✭✭✭Fandango


    MrStuffins wrote: »
    I have and they won't answer me.

    So if that's the case, considering you have absolutely no idea what the money is used for, why exactly do you think this is "not a bad deal"?

    Cos it doesnt cost you much....Pyramid schemes dont either, they must be a great investment!! :cool:


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    #28
    MrStuffins
    Registered Users Posts: 19,148 ✭✭✭✭MrStuffins


    Fandango wrote: »
    Are the warning lights going off yet? I seriously hope so! People who refuse to reply either 1. Have something to hide or 2. Are very disorganised. Reminds me of a certain battle of the bands many signed up for, paid the admin fee and never happenned. People who know what im talking about (NBOTB) did you get refunded?

    Oh, the alarm bells went off instantly, which lead me to starting this thread!

    I'll try asking them again and see what they say.


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    #29
    Fandango
    Registered Users Posts: 795 ✭✭✭Fandango


    MrStuffins wrote: »
    Oh, the alarm bells went off instantly, which lead me to starting this thread!

    I'll try asking them again and see what they say.

    Any joy? Guessing not! :rolleyes:


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    #30
    MrStuffins
    Registered Users Posts: 19,148 ✭✭✭✭MrStuffins


    Fandango wrote: »
    Any joy? Guessing not! :rolleyes:

    Nope.

    No reply to the emails. Took to going to their Facebook page and asked there. The response was "Please send any quieries you have to <email address>"

    :rolleyes:


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