Cheap Chinese ditch finders

Indricotherium · 16-03-2012 8:52am #1

There's a lot of guff talked about unbranded tyres on this forum.

Is there any real proof that these tyres wear faster or don't grip as well as branded European ones.

And before you all start I don't want a load of links to boards threads or worse, something like the Audi divers club forum. Something like a proper empirical study or even a newspaper article would be nice.

Or the classic "well I make tyres for a living in real life and I know"

It seems to me it's all talk. Along the lines of "the new corolla is made in turkey it must be unreliable"

-Corkie- · 16-03-2012 8:55am

Indricotherium wrote: »

There's a lot of guff talked about unbranded tyres on this forum.

Is there any real proof that these tyres wear faster or don't grip as well as branded European ones.

And before you all start I don't want a load of links to boards threads or worse, something like the Audi divers club forum. Something like a proper empirical study or even a newspaper article would be nice.

Or the classic "well I make tyres for a living in real life and I know"

It seems to me it's all talk. Along the lines of "the new corolla is made in turkey it must be unreliable"

Buy a set of them for your car and then go out for a good hard drive on a wet road. When your finished let us know what the guff is about, thats if your still alive...

kirving · 16-03-2012 9:18am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CiQnbLWiw4c

There is certainly a difference, and any difference whatsoever could be the difference between life or death some time. Even 99% isn't always good enough. In reality the difference between two brands depends on a multitude of factors. Well respected brands can still be bought for not much more than rubbish ones, especially when you consider part-worns.

Chriscl1 · 16-03-2012 9:23am

Indricotherium wrote: »

There's a lot of guff talked about unbranded tyres on this forum.

Is there any real proof that these tyres wear faster or don't grip as well as branded European ones.

And before you all start I don't want a load of links to boards threads or worse, something like the Audi divers club forum. Something like a proper empirical study or even a newspaper article would be nice.

Or the classic "well I make tyres for a living in real life and I know"

It seems to me it's all talk. Along the lines of "the new corolla is made in turkey it must be unreliable"

http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/2011-Autobild-Max-Performance-Summer-Tyre-Test.htm
and reviews from people the have spent money on lower quality tyres
http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Tyre/Linglong/L688.htm

http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Tyre/Triangle/TR968.htm

http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Tyre/Wanli/S1088.htm

Indricotherium · 16-03-2012 9:24am

-Corkie- wrote: »

Indricotherium wrote: »

There's a lot of guff talked about unbranded tyres on this forum.

Is there any real proof that these tyres wear faster or don't grip as well as branded European ones.

And before you all start I don't want a load of links to boards threads or worse, something like the Audi divers club forum. Something like a proper empirical study or even a newspaper article would be nice.

Or the classic "well I make tyres for a living in real life and I know"

It seems to me it's all talk. Along the lines of "the new corolla is made in turkey it must be unreliable"

Buy a set of them for your car and then go out for a good hard drive on a wet road. When your finished let us know what the guff is about, thats if your still alive...

"If I'm still alive" seriously?

Maybe it's just that I don't drive like a dick, but I've been perfectly happy on them for years.

I suspect you'd change your tune if it was triangle tyres with a load of hoardings at Anfield or on the side of an f1 car and passing the expense of that on to you.

The Bishop Basher · 16-03-2012 9:27am

As someone who once bought a set of triangles I second Corkies comment 100%. Go buy them and drive on a wet road. All the evidence you'll ever need.

Edit as you just posted...

So your driving on them already and don't notice a difference ? I can't believe that
any competent driver who likes his cars and enjoys driving wouldn't notice how crap they are.There's not driving like a dick and there's driving like a granny. The latter is annoying for other drivers.

Indricotherium · 16-03-2012 9:33am

Kevin Irving wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CiQnbLWiw4c

There is certainly a difference, and any difference whatsoever could be the difference between life or death some time. Even 99% isn't always good enough. In reality the difference between two brands depends on a multitude of factors. Well respected brands can still be bought for not much more than rubbish ones, especially when you consider part-worns.

That video seems to slam part worn tyres.

It also seems to say that the fulda tyres are perfectly acceptable under the worst conditions.

-Corkie- · 16-03-2012 9:35am

Indricotherium wrote: »

"If I'm still alive" seriously?

Maybe it's just that I don't drive like a dick, but I've been perfectly happy on them for years.

I suspect you'd change your tune if it was triangle tyres with a load of hoardings at Anfield or on the side of an f1 car and passing the expense of that on to you.

I have no idea what you are rabbling on about. If you are happy with them thats great.

Indricotherium · 16-03-2012 9:42am

-Corkie- wrote: »

Indricotherium wrote: »

I have no idea what you are rabbling on about. If you are happy with them thats great.

What I'm rabbiting on about is that this seems to be a situation where massive advertising has created an image around certain brands that is meaningless.

All tyres sold on this country meet the same safety standards.

Some people seem to believe that European corporations who manufacture tyres will go above and beyond that safety standard, and also that other brands will be below it.

dr.fuzzenstein · 16-03-2012 9:47am

So what brand are you on?
If you share your experiences with us of the different ones you've tried and how you found them, we might be able to respond in an intelligent manner, so far it's just a rant.
I've had Kormorans and found them to be very good, but won't be buying them again, because they have paper-thin sidewall and will get punctured by a match, I'm living in the country where there is a lot of hedge cutting going on, so they're no good for me.
At the moment I have Semperit Speedlife fitted, so far so good, their handling seems to be a bit spongy, but they do hold onto the road.
For my next set I would like some tires that are grippy, good in the wet and on the motorway and are hard wearing.
Give us facts and ask us questions, you'd be surprised, we might even answer!;)

16-03-2012 9:48am

Indricotherium wrote: »

Is there any real proof that these tyres wear faster or don't grip as well as branded European ones.
Something like a proper empirical study or even a newspaper article would be nice.

Some of them are worse than others and the worst ARE bloody dangerous.

I have first hand experience of what a single triangle ditch finder can do to handling but if you dont want to trust the overwhelming number of reports by car enthusiasts that they are rubbish......well....cant help you.

colm_mcm · 16-03-2012 9:49am

They tend to wear slower than better tyres. They are as bad as people say. I've had sideways action from a 1.4 auris on Triangles. this was at low speeds, completely caught me on the hop as I'd driven hundreds of auriss at that stage, most on the factory tyres.

Anan1 · 16-03-2012 9:49am

Kevin Irving wrote: »

There is certainly a difference, and any difference whatsoever could be the difference between life or death some time. Even 99% isn't always good enough.

That's true in principle, but how far do you go with it? Dedicated summer & winter tyres from a premium manufacturer is only the start - do you also replace them once they're slightly past their best, even if they've still got 7mm left? For most of us, 99% (or even a bit less) has to be good enough.

Although I drove a Volvo on Triangles lately, and it was scary enough.

-Corkie- · 16-03-2012 9:49am

Indricotherium wrote: »

-Corkie- wrote: »

What I'm rabbiting on about is that this seems to be a situation where massive advertising has created an image around certain brands that is meaningless.

All tyres sold on this country meet the same safety standards.

Some people seem to believe that European corporations who manufacture tyres will go above and beyond that safety standard, and also that other brands will be below it.

I never buy tyres from advertising I buy them from recomendations from others. I had a car with 4 Triangles on it and it handled like a greasy weasle and the road noise was brutal.

I changed them for 4 Vredstrein Ultracs which were recomended by several people. The car was completely different with no road noise..

Indricotherium · 16-03-2012 9:49am

Chriscl1 wrote: »

Indricotherium wrote: »

There's a lot of guff talked about unbranded tyres on this forum.

Is there any real proof that these tyres wear faster or don't grip as well as branded European ones.

And before you all start I don't want a load of links to boards threads or worse, something like the Audi divers club forum. Something like a proper empirical study or even a newspaper article would be nice.

Or the classic "well I make tyres for a living in real life and I know"

It seems to me it's all talk. Along the lines of "the new corolla is made in turkey it must be unreliable"

http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/2011-Autobild-Max-Performance-Summer-Tyre-Test.htm
and reviews from people the have spent money on lower quality tyres
http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Tyre/Linglong/L688.htm

http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Tyre/Triangle/TR968.htm

http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Tyre/Wanli/S1088.htm

Thanks for the links. Interesting reading.

Some of the reviews seem balanced others are borderline racist though. The first one in the top link openly so.

langdang · 16-03-2012 10:32am

Been there, done that with cheap chinese tyres. Won't be doing it again.
(unfortunately sometimes you just get landed with them if you buy a car with them on)

Indricotherium wrote: »

or worse, something like the Audi divers club forum.

At least you didn't say "VAG divers club"

kirving · 16-03-2012 10:39am

Anan1 wrote: »

That's true in principle, but how far do you go with it? Dedicated summer & winter tyres from a premium manufacturer is only the start - do you also replace them once they're slightly past their best, even if they've still got 7mm left? For most of us, 99% (or even a bit less) has to be good enough.

Although I drove a Volvo on Triangles lately, and it was scary enough.

Sorry yeah, what I means was that there is so many difference all over, tyre are only one of them - and that anything can be regarded as a life/death decision if you take it in isolation. 100 vs 105kph, tracking out, worn suspension, etc. There will be people who say that they only ever put the best tyres in the world on their car.

Good tyres are only part of the equation, but the aim is to get something decent, and avoid the crap.

The Bishop Basher · 16-03-2012 10:46am

Kevin Irving wrote: »

Anan1 wrote: »

That's true in principle, but how far do you go with it? Dedicated summer & winter tyres from a premium manufacturer is only the start - do you also replace them once they're slightly past their best, even if they've still got 7mm left? For most of us, 99% (or even a bit less) has to be good enough.

Although I drove a Volvo on Triangles lately, and it was scary enough.

Sorry yeah, what I means was that there is so many difference all over, tyre are only one of them - and that anything can be regarded as a life/death decision if you take it in isolation. 100 vs 105kph, tracking out, worn suspension, etc. There will be people who say that they only ever put the best tyres in the world on their car.

Good tyres are only part of the equation, but the aim is to get something decent, and avoid the crap.

Tyres, steering and brakes are the most important factors in safety. Both steering and brakes also rely on good tyres so for me it all comes down to decent tyres.

jsd1004 · 16-03-2012 10:48am

Anan1 wrote: »

That's true in principle, but how far do you go with it? Dedicated summer & winter tyres from a premium manufacturer is only the start - do you also replace them once they're slightly past their best, even if they've still got 7mm left? For most of us, 99% (or even a bit less) has to be good enough.

Although I drove a Volvo on Triangles lately, and it was scary enough.

This is a bit of a silly debate. What constitutes a good tyre or a bad tyre? Is a Pirelli P6000 a ditch finder because it has less grip than a Michelin Pilot Supersport. Should we all be made buy tyres that only last a 1000 miles cost 300euros a corner but grip like **** to a cows hole. I have driven a car with 4 triangles and it was appalling in the wet (good fun though) I knew that though and drove accordingly and to the conditions. The tyres were reasonable in the dry however. I have another car with semi slick Yokahama A088 that are dangerous in the wet but grip like hell once warm in the dry and i drive accordingly. A lot of people who find ditches should consider their driving style and their knowledge of their car and equipment before blaming one particular component.

The Bishop Basher · 16-03-2012 10:56am

jsd1004 wrote: »

This is a bit of a silly debate. What constitutes a good tyre or a bad tyre? Is a Pirelli P6000 a ditch finder because it has less grip than a Michelin Pilot Supersport. Should we all be made buy tyres that only last a 1000 miles cost 300euros a corner but grip like **** to a cows hole.

Common sense applies.

jsd1004 wrote: »

I have driven a car with 4 triangles and it was appalling in the wet (good fun though) I knew that though and drove accordingly and to the conditions.

You can drive accordingly all you like but if you need to stop quickly, and at some point you will, I just hope i'm not the one in front of you.

jsd1004 wrote: »

A lot of people who find ditches should consider their driving style and their knowledge of their car and equipment before blaming one particular component.

Equipment is paramount when it comes to safety. Unless your saying that seatbelts, ABS etc are all irrelevant ?

kerten · 16-03-2012 11:11am

jsd1004 wrote: »

Should we all be made buy tyres that only last a 1000 miles cost 300euros a corner but grip like **** to a cows hole.

Nope, we should buy a tyre with decent grip for 10-15 euro more than cheapest available dangerous tyre.

Decent doesn't mean Michelin, Continental, Bridgestone, Goodyear, Pirelli only.

tossy · 16-03-2012 11:17am

Indricotherium wrote: »

And before you all start I don't want a load of links to boards threads or worse, something like the Audi divers club forum. Something like a proper empirical study or even a newspaper article would be nice.

You don't want links to forums containing threads started by people with real world experience? but you are happy with newspaper articles? The news paper would be the last place i'd look for tyre/motoring advice.

Mr Benevolent · 16-03-2012 11:17am

Indricotherium wrote: »

Thanks for the links. Interesting reading.

Some of the reviews seem balanced others are borderline racist though. The first one in the top link openly so.

Indeed, tyre racism is an increasing problem. Why only the other day I saw a set of Triangles being kicked by an unfeeling racist with anger issues.

dr.fuzzenstein · 16-03-2012 11:18am

kerten wrote: »

Nope, we should buy a tyre with decent grip for 10-15 euro more than cheapest available dangerous tyre.

Decent doesn't mean Michelin, Continental, Bridgestone, Goodyear, Pirelli only.

+1
Some people think most expensive always=best
That's why it is important to know what you want from a tire, be it outright grip and feck everything else, or main point good on wet, longevity over everything else, different tires do different things and the best tire for a certain purpose might not even be the most expensive or most recognisable brand name.
But as always, if you buy chaep shyte, that's what you're gonna get.

jsd1004 · 16-03-2012 11:20am

Swanner wrote: »

Common sense applies.

If a tyre is legal please expand on how common sense applies. People buy on price. Like everything if you buy cheapest of something you will always get the worst performance. There will always be good tyres and bad tyres with or without standards. You should always buy the best tyre you can afford.

You can drive accordingly all you like but if you need to stop quickly, and at some point you will, I just hope i'm not the one in front of you.

Drive to the conditions. We will all need to stop quickly at some stage. Tyres are only one factor. If you cannot stop quickly you are driving too fast. You would be lucky if you were in front of me because i never drive so close to the car in front that i cannot stop safely when the need arises, irrespective of what car i am driving. I hope you do the same. There is no excuse for rear ending someone.

Equipment is paramount when it comes to safety. Unless your saying that seatbelts, ABS etc are all irrelevant ?

Absolutely. I agree. Does that mean we should all drive SUV's and be obliged to wear helmets and full harnesses to improve safety. Equipment is important but knowing your limitations the limitations of your car and its equipment and driving appropriately is also important.

conzy · 16-03-2012 11:21am

My Vectra had ditch finders on it and the tinyest bit of standing water on a roundabout would send you sideways.. They are lethal and most average joes pottering around town dont know the difference but the first time they have to brake hard in the wet they will more than likely end up in an accident...

We should do this Mythbusters style at the next motors meet. We should get some ditch finders and some proper tyres and test the stopping distance / ride comfort / handling between the two :cool:

Anan1 · 16-03-2012 11:23am

Confab wrote: »

Indeed, tyre racism is an increasing problem. Why only the other day I saw a set of Triangles being kicked by an unfeeling racist with anger issues.

Indricotherium has a point - someone with issues with the Chinese can't be trusted to write a balanced review on Chinese tyres. Add in the strong positive correlation between racism and stupidity and i'd personally disregard any overtly racist review.

Jesus Shaves · 16-03-2012 11:24am

A good driver will control their car no matter what tyre is on it in any conditions.

ThisRegard · 16-03-2012 11:26am

First hand experience, I know, it's unusual for many posts in Motors offering advice and opinions to be based on it but there you go.

Previous car to my current one had been fitted with cheapo Wanlis by the garage just before I was given it, I got rid of them after a while enough even though they appeared to be brand new after a bit of mileage on them. The slightest bit of damp resulted in traction control constantly kicking in. And this was on a 1.6 Octavia so there was no messing about.

If you google them the first link returned will be a 'beware of' type.

16-03-2012 11:30am

darokane wrote: »

A good driver will control their car no matter what tyre is on it in any conditions.

...... in an emergency situation better tyres will stop quicker than awful ones, especially in the wet.

conzy · 16-03-2012 11:31am

darokane wrote: »

A good driver will control their car no matter what tyre is on it in any conditions.

Yes they control their car perfectly by travelling everywhere at 55km/h and pushing it to 95km/h on the motorway

Jesus Shaves · 16-03-2012 11:34am

conzymaher wrote: »

Yes they control their car perfectly by travelling everywhere at 55km/h and pushing it to 95km/h on the motorway

bull:rolleyes:

Indricotherium · 16-03-2012 11:37am

ThisRegard wrote: »

First hand experience, I know, it's unusual for many posts in Motors offering advice and opinions to be based on it but there you go.

Previous car to my current one had been fitted with cheapo Wanlis by the garage just before I was given it, I got rid of them after a while enough even though they appeared to be brand new after a bit of mileage on them. The slightest bit of damp resulted in traction control constantly kicking in. And this was on a 1.6 Octavia so there was no messing about.

If you google them the first link returned will be a 'beware of' type.

If you try another search engine with a little less user / advertiser bias, maybe duckduckgo.com you only get links to good reviews though.

The Bishop Basher · 16-03-2012 11:37am

jsd1004 wrote: »

If a tyre is legal please expand on how common sense applies. People buy on price. Like everything if you buy cheapest of something you will always get the worst performance. There will always be good tyres and bad tyres with or without standards. You should always buy the best tyre you can afford.

We're in agreement here. By common sense I mean approach it the way you would approach any purchase. Do your homework, read the reviews and get a good safe tyre at a price you can afford.

jsd1004 wrote: »

Absolutely. I agree. Does that mean we should all drive SUV's and be obliged to wear helmets and full harnesses to improve safety. Equipment is important but knowing your limitations the limitations of your car and its equipment and driving appropriately is also important.

Again, I agree. Obviously your driving ability is a major factor in safety.

Anan1 · 16-03-2012 11:41am

darokane wrote: »

bull:rolleyes:

The only way to maintain safety with reduced grip is to reduce speed.

16-03-2012 11:41am

darokane wrote: »

A good driver will control their car no matter what tyre is on it in any conditions.

ThisRegard wrote: »

First hand experience, I know, it's unusual for many posts in Motors offering advice and opinions to be based on it but there you go.

Previous car to my current one had been fitted with cheapo Wanlis by the garage just before I was given it, I got rid of them after a while enough even though they appeared to be brand new after a bit of mileage on them. The slightest bit of damp resulted in traction control constantly kicking in. And this was on a 1.6 Octavia so there was no messing about.

If you google them the first link returned will be a 'beware of' type.

So using Darokane's expert view and ThisRegards first hand experience it looks like ThisRegards isn't a good driver :pac:

antiskeptic · 16-03-2012 11:41am

Indricotherium wrote: »

There's a lot of guff talked about unbranded tyres on this forum.

Is there any real proof that these tyres wear faster or don't grip as well as branded European ones.

Given the item under discussion, the correct way to approach things is from the cautionary side. And to err on that side. You can also ask, in the face of a lack of concrete, objective evidence: "to where does the evidence point".

The first thing to acknowledge is that there is nothing to prevent a no-brand tyre from China performing as well as a branded tyre from Europe. In theory at least. But what is the most reasonable thing to expect - given a reasonable set of assumptions.

1. A no-brand tyre will have to meet certain EU regulations before it can be sold here - just as the Euro tyre will have to. But those regulations are limited in reach. They won't ensure, for instance, that quality control is such as to prevent wide fluctuations in manufacturing tolerances. Or prevent a manufacturer substituting cheaper materials post his having achieved the EU mark (remember the PIP breast implants?)

2. Companies in China don't fall under the juristiction of European law and so failure as a result of poor manufacturing practices or substitution with cheaper materials won't bring with it the penalites that would accrue to a European company - including in the case of substitution to sub-standard materials, criminal prosecution.

The Chinese company has more freedom in this regard and it is reasonable, given human nature, to suppose a higher risk attaching to the Chinese tyre than to the European one, in these regards.

3. Brand LingLong has no value as a brand whereas the likes of Continental and Pirelli do have value. The manufacturer of LingLong has nothing to loose brandwise if his tyres prove to increase accidents and fatalities - he just has to change the name on the tyre to brand PingPong and carry on where he left off. Whereas the manufacturer of Continental has lots to loose. And so the latter can be reasonably expected to do his utmost to protect his brand image. Which can be reasonably be expected to convert to a better and more reliably performing product.

4. China is a notoriously corrupt nation whereas European countries have a good record in this regard. Even with the best will in the world, the Chinese tyre manufacturer cannot ensure his product is as he intends it to be for want of the corruption at all tiers surrounding his supply lines, manufacturing workers, etc. Those LingLong tyres you have could be rejected product that has found it's way back into the supply line, the result of corruption in the Quality Dept. For instance.

-

I could go on but these strike me as sufficient reasons to steer clear of an item which should bow to the exhortation "buyer beware!" as no other.

Neilw · 16-03-2012 11:44am

darokane wrote: »

A good driver will control their car no matter what tyre is on it in any conditions.

What about an emergency situation such as a lane change in wet weather to avoid an accident, your budget tyre could be well beyond its limits where a premium tyre would take it in its stride.

I've driven on budget tyres and will stick with my eagle f1's or pilot sports thanks very much.

Some people have closed minds and no amount of education or user experience will change their minds.

16-03-2012 11:45am

Neilw wrote: »

What about an emergency situation such as a lane change in wet weather to avoid an accident, your budget tyre could be well beyond its limits where a premium tyre would take it in its stride..............

Not a great example if you are claiming to be a good driver, being able to stop in the distance that's clear and all that jazz.

ThisRegard · 16-03-2012 11:48am

RoverJames wrote: »

So using Darokane's expert view and ThisRegards first hand experience it looks like ThisRegards isn't a good driver :pac:

Hey, get out of here with your perverse logic !

Neilw · 16-03-2012 11:51am

RoverJames wrote: »

Not a great example if you are claiming to be a good driver, being able to stop in the distance that's clear and all that jazz.

I didn't claim to be anything of the sort.

I'm saying sometimes an emergency situation/close call can't be avoided, nobody's perfect when it comes to driving, we all make the odd mistake. I'd rather have a better set of tyres on my car in one of those situations.

Jesus Shaves · 16-03-2012 11:52am

RoverJames wrote: »

So using Darokane's expert view and ThisRegards first hand experience it looks like ThisRegards isn't a good driver :pac:

;)exactly

16-03-2012 11:54am

darokane wrote: »

A good driver will control their car no matter what tyre is on it in any conditions.

Neilw wrote: »

What about an emergency situation such as a lane change in wet weather to avoid an accident, your budget tyre could be well beyond its limits where a premium tyre would take it in its stride.

I've driven on budget tyres and will stick with my eagle f1's or pilot sports thanks very much.

Some people have closed minds and no amount of education or user experience will change their minds.

RoverJames wrote: »

Not a great example if you are claiming to be a good driver, being able to stop in the distance that's clear and all that jazz.

Neilw wrote: »

I didn't claim to be anything of the sort.................

Indeed you didn't, but darokane was specifically on about good drivers and you quoted him

JJJJNR · 16-03-2012 11:56am

I purchased a brand new cheap Chinese tyre while I was awaiting delivery of my winters last year and during one of the cold snaps when the temp dropped to -10 or something the tyre stuck to the drive-way and basically disintegrated right there and then. The other tyres all good brand euro summer tyres were fine, twas a nightmare changing the thing while it was stuck frozen to the ground.

dr.fuzzenstein · 16-03-2012 11:56am

So, cheap tires=babies will die!
But seriously, if you buy a cheap telly, you have to put up with crap picture, if you live in a cheap (€500k) celtic-tiger era house, you're going to be frozen as the house falls down around you, cheap clothes and you're going to look terrible and be cold, but cheap tires that have longer stopping distances, especially in the wet could mean someone steps out in front of the car will get mown down, instead of escaping injury.
I don't buy premium brands only, or only the most expensive, but I try to find the best balance between safety, performance and price.
But in the end, for those who understand, no explanation is necessary, for those who don't no explanation is possible.

_Kaiser_ · 16-03-2012 12:10pm

There is certainly a difference OP

I was stuck for a set of front tyres a while back and ended up with a (not-so-cheap) set of "Event" tyres on the day (damn awkward sizes even though there's thousands of Passats on the road)... well driving on them was certainly an "event" alright - absolutely rubbish in the wet, no grip round corners/bends at anything over 50 km/h etc. Not to mention the road noise was a lot higher.

Contrast that with the set of Hankook All-Season Optimo 4s I put on before Christmas which keep the car glued to the road on the same corners/bends and which worked out cheaper in the end too.

With the mileage I (was) do(ing) splashing out 5-600 for a "premium" brand wasn't a runner but never again will I be putting chinese crap like that on the car again.

alias no.9 · 16-03-2012 12:15pm

My last car had some cheap crap on the front wheels when I bought it. I quickly changed them when I experienced understeer at a low speed on a wet roundabout. They had plenty of thread and it was a rear wheel drive which really shouldnt understeer so it was the tyre design / materials that let me down. I put a set of bridgestones on and never again felt the slightest twitch.

conzy · 16-03-2012 12:17pm

There is no excuse for buying these tyres, The price difference between a wanli / nankang ditchfinder and a very good budget tyre like the Falken 452 is about 10 or 15 euro per corner.

Typically lazy paddy spec attitude :mad:

Its amazing how many cars you see with 4 odd ditch finders, with bald rears because they have already been rotated from the front to the rear.

Reviews of Falken 452

keithclancy · 16-03-2012 12:20pm

darokane wrote: »

A good driver will control their car no matter what tyre is on it in any conditions.

A good driver will make sure they have a good set of tyres, since its the last bit connecting you with the road.

A driver who sticks cheap sh*te on their car and heads out with the "I'm such a good driver I can forsee anything" is in my a view, deluded.

The cheap chinese brands come out bottom in nearly all the ADAC Tests, lots of them fail the speed test (rated speed) resulting in blowouts and shredding. Very dangerous.

E.G. Wanli

Myself I stick the Cruise Control at 180km/h on the way to work, I'd prefer to spend a bit more on a decent tyre than save a few quid and risk paying a whole lot more in car repair costs or in the worst case my life.

Tea 1000 · 16-03-2012 12:44pm

Indricotherium wrote: »

"If I'm still alive" seriously?

Maybe it's just that I don't drive like a dick, but I've been perfectly happy on them for years.

I suspect you'd change your tune if it was triangle tyres with a load of hoardings at Anfield or on the side of an f1 car and passing the expense of that on to you.

So you think all that separates a branded tyre from a non-branded one is advertising? What else in life do you apply this theory to?

Indricotherium wrote: »

What I'm rabbiting on about is that this seems to be a situation where massive advertising has created an image around certain brands that is meaningless.

All tyres sold on this country meet the same safety standards.

Some people seem to believe that European corporations who manufacture tyres will go above and beyond that safety standard, and also that other brands will be below it.

Safety standards? Would you care to explain these safety standards? The glorious "E" mark is it? If they have that magic E then they're perfectly safe and all equal? Maybe it's time to get the head out of the sand. That's only for manufacturing standards. It doesn't mean they actually have to produce a quality product.
We have the NCAP safety rating for how well cars perform in an impact, and while it may not be a perfect system, it certainly is a good indicator. We have nothing at all for tyres.

jsd1004 wrote: »

This is a bit of a silly debate. What constitutes a good tyre or a bad tyre? Is a Pirelli P6000 a ditch finder because it has less grip than a Michelin Pilot Supersport. Should we all be made buy tyres that only last a 1000 miles cost 300euros a corner but grip like **** to a cows hole. I have driven a car with 4 triangles and it was appalling in the wet (good fun though) I knew that though and drove accordingly and to the conditions. The tyres were reasonable in the dry however. I have another car with semi slick Yokahama A088 that are dangerous in the wet but grip like hell once warm in the dry and i drive accordingly. A lot of people who find ditches should consider their driving style and their knowledge of their car and equipment before blaming one particular component.

No. You're missing the point. What we refer to as "ditchfinders" are typically real rubbish like triangles, or wanli's, or runways or GHWGHATH's or whatever you may never have heard of, and go and take a spin in a car with them and immediately find out just how crap they are without even trying.
Some of the top brands are typically overly expensive, some of the Michelin's are pricey but hard compound so not all that grippy. They last ages, but I don't like them because they tend to reach a point where 60% of the grip is gone but there's still loads of tread left. Other tyres are softer compound, and give better grip, and some give a balance.
There are many good brands out there that are like the Kia's and Hyundai's of the world, where they have an offering that's 90% as good as the top brands, but only 60% of the price. Kumho's and Hankook's are very decent, and in most sizes that I've priced, only €10 a corner more expensive than the cheap crap.
You only have to pay a little more to get a lot better. That's the point we're constantly trying to drum into people. But there are those who think they know better. Into the sand with your heads I say!

16-03-2012 12:47pm

I find the Accelera Phi very good, they're almost done now though after 15,000 miles.

Cheap Chinese ditch finders

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