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Carbon Clincher wheels (alloy brake track) CSN vs RS81

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    #2
    Scrappy600
    Registered Users Posts: 654 ✭✭✭Scrappy600


    silver campaign wrote: »
    Just wondering if anyone has any experience with either of these wheels, or if you would know which would be best. I want them for club league racing, triathlon and sportives.

    They are both carbon clinchers with alloy brake track, 50mm deep rim. Both about 1900grams.

    The first is CSN superlegerra from ribble, I think its their own brand. Coming in at about €600 delivered with cassette. I cant find many reviews online for them.

    The second are shimano RS81 C50 from bike-discount.de delivered for €720 with cassette. I'm told they are old re-branded Dura Ace wheels?

    Of course I'd love some Cosmics or Zipp 60's but this is on the limit of my budget.

    http://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/sp/road-track-bike/wheels-factory-built-wheels-factory-road-tri-csn-superleggera-xl50-clincher-wheels-pair/csnawhfr100

    http://www.bike-discount.de/en/buy/wh-rs81-c50-cl-wheelset-black-85399

    Are you sure 1900g is correct for those? Ive got Shimano RS61 alloy and theyre only 1700-odd? seems very heavy for a carbon wheelset...


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    #3
    Lumen
    Registered Users Posts: 31,016 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    Scrappy600 wrote: »
    Are you sure 1900g is correct for those? Ive got Shimano RS61 alloy and theyre only 1700-odd? seems very heavy for a carbon wheelset...
    RS61 are shallow section, therefore lighter.

    Those particular deep section wheels are essentially a shallow rim with a plastic fairing bonded on to it.

    Full carbon rims are a few hundred grams lighter but have worse braking.


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    #4
    Scrappy600
    Registered Users Posts: 654 ✭✭✭Scrappy600


    Lumen wrote: »
    RS61 are shallow section, therefore lighter.

    Those particular deep section wheels are essentially a shallow rim with a plastic fairing bonded on to it.

    Full carbon rims are a few hundred grams lighter but have worse braking.

    Bear with me here so as this may be a very noob question but does that mean that all carbon rooms that have alu braking surface are the type with a fairing over a shallow rim and the only true carbon wheels are ones that have a carbon braking surface? I always wondered how they bonded the alu braking surface to a carbon rim to withstand braking forces and that may answer my question


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    #5
    mirv
    Registered Users Posts: 848 ✭✭✭mirv


    Carbons rims with an alloy braking surface usually aren't full carbon rims. They're shallow box section alloy rims with a carbon fairing.


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    #6
    mirv
    Registered Users Posts: 848 ✭✭✭mirv


    What about PlanetX CT45s? They've got a toroidial section like the new zipps and are 45mm deep and £550. Something about less prone to handling problems in sidewinds or gusts.


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    #7
    silver campaign
    Registered Users Posts: 363 ✭✭silver campaign


    Scrappy600 wrote: »
    Bear with me here so as this may be a very noob question but does that mean that all carbon rooms that have alu braking surface are the type with a fairing over a shallow rim and the only true carbon wheels are ones that have a carbon braking surface? I always wondered how they bonded the alu braking surface to a carbon rim to withstand braking forces and that may answer my question

    Thanks lads, Yes Scrappy, from my researching of wheels lately, there are two types of carbon wheel. A full carbon wheel which requires carbon specific brake pads and has lesser quality braking, and basically an alloy wheel with carbon fairing as in the wheels I mentioned above. I'd prefer to go with this as even though they are heavier, means I wont have to mess with brake pads if using my other wheels.

    (Lumen, are these plastic fairing or carbon fairing? If they are plastic , is there any real advantage, or is it just a marketing / looks thing)

    Then there is the clincher vs tubular option of each. Im going to stick with clincher simply because its what I know, cheaper tyres, easier to work with and probably more suited to what I'm doing. I think the extra few 100 grams of extra weight are meaningless given that I could still loose about 2 stone off my body weight. (Currently about 14 stone)


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    #8
    silver campaign
    Registered Users Posts: 363 ✭✭silver campaign


    mirv wrote: »
    What about PlanetX CT45s? They've got a toroidial section like the new zipps and are 45mm deep and £550. Something about less prone to handling problems in sidewinds or gusts.

    Thanks Mirv, I'll have a look into them. Although I thought I had looked at nearly all options and narrowed my choice down to these two. Of course I had a look at the chinese options, but I reckon Id be better buying a more trusted brand for the sake of approx e150 extra.


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    #9
    silver campaign
    Registered Users Posts: 363 ✭✭silver campaign


    silver campaign wrote: »
    Thanks Mirv, I'll have a look into them. Although I thought I had looked at nearly all options and narrowed my choice down to these two. Of course I had a look at the chinese options, but I reckon Id be better buying a more trusted brand for the sake of approx e150 extra.

    These look like good value, Tubular CT45 looks like direct from planet x. What do ye think?

    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Planet-X-Un-Decalled-Sample-CT45-Carbon-Tubular-Aero-700c-Road-Bike-Wheels-/291171676259?pt=UK_sportsleisure_cycling_bikeparts_SR&hash=item43cb2f3063#viTabs_0


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    #10
    wav1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,906 ✭✭✭wav1


    my son races a set of csn superleggra 50s and apart from being a little on the heavy side they are a great set of wheels.has them 3 yrs


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    #11
    Lumen
    Registered Users Posts: 31,016 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    silver campaign wrote: »
    are these plastic fairing or carbon fairing? If they are plastic , is there any real advantage, or is it just a marketing / looks thing
    I was just using "plastic" as as retrogrouch shorthand for "carbon fibre reinforced plastic/polymer".

    The (extremely small) advantage of deep wheels comes from their shape not the material; the aero advantage would be the same if the fairing was made from cheese. Some non-structural rims (Bontrager, HED Jet) are very flexy - you can push in the fairing with a finger - because they're made with carbon+thermoplastic rather than carbon+resin. That doesn't make them less aero.

    Anyway, full "carbon" wheels are lighter but brake worse; faired aluminium wheels are heavier but brake the same as normal wheels.

    Pros use tubs which are both deep and light because the brake track doesn't need to support the force from the tyre bead like a clincher, but they often don't even bother with deep section wheels if there is significant climbing and descending.
    silver campaign wrote: »
    These look like good value, Tubular CT45 looks like direct from planet x. What do ye think?
    They're tubs. Do you want tubs?

    edit: aside from all of that, the weight of carbon/alu wheels has come down a bit in the last few years. I think there are some wheels which are structural carbon with a bonded alu brake track, e.g. Citec 6000 CX Tubular. I'm sure I saw a clincher like that too...

    Anyway, it is now possible to get deep section wheels with an alloy braking surface for <1600g. Citec 8000 CX/63 claim to be 1580g, which is pretty amazing.


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    #12
    silver campaign
    Registered Users Posts: 363 ✭✭silver campaign


    Lumen wrote: »

    They're tubs. Do you want tubs?

    I know they are tubs, and your right I don't particularly want tubs. I just thought with £200 off, they might be worth going for. I think I'll hold fire for the moment rather buying something impulsively, and wait to buy what I want.


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    #13
    Lumen
    Registered Users Posts: 31,016 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    Do it.

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057233070


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    #14
    Ryath
    Registered Users Posts: 3,378 ✭✭✭Ryath


    Lumen wrote: »
    Do it.

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057233070

    Really like the look of them if I had the money I'd be sorely tempted.
    €1200 on Jedisports the weight weenie in me is more tempted by these though @€;1100. I have seen them for a €1000

    http://jedi-sports.de/Wheelsets/Wheelsets-Road/Mavic-Ksyrium-SLR::4410.html


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    #15
    silver campaign
    Registered Users Posts: 363 ✭✭silver campaign


    I stretched the budget a bit and went for Zipp 60's. I'll let you know how I get on with them once I get out over the next few days.


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