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Who to bring with you to view house in need of extensive renovation/extension

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  • 28-10-2014 10:47pm
    #1
    tipping
    Registered Users Posts: 434 ✭✭


    Hi

    We're looking to purchase a house and have seen some houses in various states of repair.
    Both need considerable work, one would need complete renovation and the other would require complete renovation and extension.

    So to get the best our of a viewing and get a idea of final cost who's the best professional to bring along with you? Are you looking at a builder, engineer, architect, surveyor etc?

    Thanks
    Tipping


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    #2
    BryanF
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 10,140 Mod ✭✭✭✭BryanF


    If want costings bring a Qs or builder


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    #3
    kkelliher
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 1,583 Mod ✭✭✭✭kkelliher


    bring them all if your happy to pay for it...... or bring architect (and add 40% to the cost he tells you), building surveyor (and add 30%), Engineer (and add 30%) and builder (and add 50%).........or QS and be spot on...... :) (couldnt resist)


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    #4
    BryanF
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 10,140 Mod ✭✭✭✭BryanF


    kkelliher wrote: »
    bring them all if your happy to pay for it...... or bring architect (and add 40% to the cost he tells you), building surveyor (and add 30%), Engineer (and add 30%) and builder (and add 50%).........or QS and be spot on...... :) (couldnt resist)
    So all in 150% what you expect the renovation to cost. that sounds about right. :rolleyes:


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    #5
    tipping
    Registered Users Posts: 434 ✭✭tipping


    Cheers, qs it is then.

    In my line of work I multiply all estimates by 3 for realistic dates so the 30%-40% extra doesn't sound to bad...

    Anyone recommend a QS around Midleton in Cork.

    Cheers again
    Tipping


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    #6
    kkelliher
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 1,583 Mod ✭✭✭✭kkelliher


    tipping wrote: »
    Cheers, qs it is then.

    In my line of work I multiply all estimates by 3 for realistic dates so the 30%-40% extra doesn't sound to bad...

    Anyone recommend a QS around Midleton in Cork.

    Cheers again
    Tipping

    If you post here in the correct format you might get some feedback http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056682402&page=23


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    #7
    spin777
    Registered Users Posts: 56 ✭✭spin777


    I would completely disagree with the opinions above. A QS is only good for doing a bill of quantities, the estimated items can be so vast in spec and quality that they almost always over price work. On a recent build we done, our QS's original estimate was 500k to build two houses. We sat down with an engineer and I went through the list and peeled it back to 350k. Then we done the build for 300k, which was my gut from the start. A good builder will see things IMMEDIATELY and see problems and solutions on their own whereas a QS will want drawings and engineers evaluations to help them price it. Find a small time reputable local builder who is properly registered and comes with references from local people, if they are any good they'll be fit to give you a good estimate without architects and engineers drawings.


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    #8
    kkelliher
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 1,583 Mod ✭✭✭✭kkelliher


    spin777 wrote: »
    I would completely disagree with the opinions above. A QS is only good for doing a bill of quantities, the estimated items can be so vast in spec and quality that they almost always over price work. On a recent build we done, our QS's original estimate was 500k to build two houses. We sat down with an engineer and I went through the list and peeled it back to 350k. Then we done the build for 300k, which was my gut from the start. A good builder will see things IMMEDIATELY and see problems and solutions on their own whereas a QS will want drawings and engineers evaluations to help them price it. Find a small time reputable local builder who is properly registered and comes with references from local people, if they are any good they'll be fit to give you a good estimate without architects and engineers drawings.

    Good to see your not being general based on one experience with a QS. I think in fairness the same could be said for any amount of builders who have visited properties for clients of mine. It must also be pointed out that at least by having a document at €500k it gave you something to work down to €300k. That beats having a builder say €300k and ending up at €500k at the end (for which I could give any amount of true life examples).

    There are good and bad at every trade......


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    #9
    spin777
    Registered Users Posts: 56 ✭✭spin777


    kkelliher wrote: »
    Good to see your not being general based on one experience with a QS. I think in fairness the same could be said for any amount of builders who have visited properties for clients of mine. It must also be pointed out that at least by having a document at €500k it gave you something to work down to €300k. That beats having a builder say €300k and ending up at €500k at the end (for which I could give any amount of true life examples).

    There are good and bad at every trade......

    Valid point. But from my personal experience I think an able builder will get much closer to that figure than a QS, and I've never seen a QS do an evaluation on a build without drawings and even engineers structural drawings, which are all €€€€€€€€, if is was just a renovation then perhaps the QS is a better judge because they will detail the figures but if your looking at extensions, knocking walls and practical solutions then I would always consider a builder a better judge for an "initial" opinion.


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    #10
    RITwing
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 246 ✭✭RITwing


    spin777 wrote: »
    they'll be fit to give you a good estimate without architects and engineers drawings.

    Based on what ? How will they know what to price ?


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    #11
    spin777
    Registered Users Posts: 56 ✭✭spin777


    RITwing wrote: »
    Based on what ? How will they know what to price ?

    Vision, forty years of experience, based on building and renovating 100 houses in the locality as we are presuming the OP would try get a local experienced person, based on building a 14ft x 22ft conservatory for Mrs Murphy down the road last year on a budget of x thousand, based on installing Ms Johnstons new en-suite and putting a new room in the attic. A good builder won't need drawings for an estimate. A good mechanic can look into an engine bay and give you an idea how much time and materials it will costs to rebuild, same with a good builder, he doesn't need diagrams, pie charts, drawings and artists impressions. But as kkelliher stated a QS can be good too but I would back a builder getting closer to the mark imho.


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    #12
    tipping
    Registered Users Posts: 434 ✭✭tipping


    Cheers for all the replies.

    I've posted a request in the recommendation tread. To be honest probably the right person for the job is who I need, whether they are a builder or QS and definately local knowledge would be most helpful.
    So lets see how it goes..


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    #13
    RITwing
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 246 ✭✭RITwing


    @ spin777

    I see what you mean.

    If you can point to a similar house to the one the OP is looking at and say we carried out "X" works on this house 2 years ago and it cost "€Y" and you can have a look at it and even meet the client well that is a most fantastic guide - agreed.

    But if the OP cannot locate someone like you who did something similar to what they want - well how would the OP describe what they want? How would a builder know what the OP wants?

    It is too easy for the OP "vision" and the builders "vision" to differ.


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    #14
    RITwing
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 246 ✭✭RITwing


    tipping wrote: »
    local knowledge would be most helpful.

    go to your local hardware stores and builders merchants. Find out who their busiest small builder customers are. Start there


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    #15
    spin777
    Registered Users Posts: 56 ✭✭spin777


    RITwing wrote: »
    @ spin777

    I see what you mean.

    If you can point to a similar house to the one the OP is looking at and say we carried out "X" works on this house 2 years ago and it cost "€Y" and you can have a look at it and even meet the client well that is a most fantastic guide - agreed.

    But if the OP cannot locate someone like you who did something similar to what they want - well how would the OP describe what they want? How would a builder know what the OP wants?

    It is too easy for the OP "vision" and the builders "vision" to differ.

    Understood but I am presuming the OP isn't taking about an tire glass floor to ceiling extension, with balconies and complicated roof joints and levels or any of that fancy nonsense. Just a straight forward renovation and a bricks and mortar standard extension? Once it is a standard construction a builder should get a really good grasp of it.

    OP if you are going for a fancy renovation and a complicated extension or difficult site conditions then I would suggest the builder AND the QS, if you were lucky to get a QS that does a little bit of drawing/architecture then you would be on the pigs back, but that would be a rear jem to uncover.


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    #16
    spin777
    Registered Users Posts: 56 ✭✭spin777


    RITwing wrote: »
    go to your local hardware stores and builders merchants. Find out who their busiest small builder customers are. Start there

    BRILLIANT ADVISE, I AM ACTUALLY ANNOYED I NEVER THOUGHT OF THIS.


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    #17
    tipping
    Registered Users Posts: 434 ✭✭tipping


    Just as an update, found a local builder who'd recently finished a similar type project.
    He said that the existing house was pretty much a knocking job and to price it as a new build.
    This was due both to the state and layout of the existing house, which was long and narrow (1 room wide for most of it)

    He did also say that an architect would be useful in terms of looking to see if something could be done with the existing space but overall I think we'll look for a better opportunity elsewhere.


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