Magazine Fort, Phoenix Park

focus_mad · 05-08-2009 10:53am #1

Hi

I thought this was probably the best location for this..

I have an avid interest in the Magazine Fort in the Phoenix Park and am considering using it for a project in college, however does anyone know where I'd find information on it?

I don't mean to sound lazy with the above question, I have contacted a Engineers that were contracted to carry out works on it and the OPW and I have gotten no reply from either..

Thanks

Al

the_syco · 05-08-2009 3:22pm

I'll have to get back to you about it, but someone got in and took a load of pictures in and around it.

Rumoured to be a platform/entrance in the Connolly to Heuston railway tunnel, but don't know if it actually exists.

If it's still owned by the DoD I can't see much info being available for it online.

focus_mad · 05-08-2009 3:26pm

the_syco wrote: »

I'll have to get back to you about it, but someone got in and took a load of pictures in and around it.

Rumoured to be a platform/entrance in the Connolly to Heuston railway tunnel, but don't know if it actually exists.

If it's still owned by the DoD I can't see much info being available for it online.

I was on the phone to the Office of Public Works and to the Conservation architects that dealt with the survey so I'm waiting for a reply from the fella who can authorise the plans to be released.. Will let you know what happens.

mikemac · 05-08-2009 8:32pm

Pics here

A great site
http://www.abandonedireland.com/pf.html

DDigital · 06-08-2009 9:25pm

the_syco wrote: »

I'll have to get back to you about it, but someone got in and took a load of pictures in and around it.

Rumoured to be a platform/entrance in the Connolly to Heuston railway tunnel, but don't know if it actually exists.

If it's still owned by the DoD I can't see much info being available for it online.

If you mean the tunnel under the phoenix park, I dont think its near it.

Is there any truth that it doesn't appear on any maps? Its a fascinating place. I played around its perimetre as a child. If I remember right, theres a big ditch around it.

DDigital · 06-08-2009 9:32pm

mikemac wrote: »

Pics here

A great site
http://www.abandonedireland.com/pf.html

Fantastic snaps. What a great museum it would make.

dubtom · 06-08-2009 11:29pm

Know I'd seen pics of it somewhere.Why don't you contact the guy on abandoned Ireland and see if he has a way in.

g5fd6ow0hseima · 06-08-2009 11:44pm

I walked around it for about an hour a few months back. They recently welded two new iron bars to the front gate, which means that people were obviously getting in.

D7 · 09-08-2009 3:04pm

Have just been for a walk about it , wow, what views, and an absolute disgrace it has been let go and get in the current state shown in the photos in www.abandonedireland. (as above). It should be conserved and perhaps one or several of the colleges in the country should adopt its reinstatement and return to use as part of course work........Bolton Street all courses.

OPW should seek to bring it back into active use and run it as a Hotel with funds/profits being ploughed back into the Park, not that the OPW could run a business!:D

DDigital · 10-08-2009 4:18pm

The mind boggles at how the state can stand over the slow destruction of such a fine building in the middle of Europes biggest city park. Its no longer used for anything and the state had no problem encouraging CIE to sell off propert many years ago. Surely during the good times a private entity would have jumped at buying it. (and not for houses.:D) Of course there are other examples such as the forts in Cork Harbour.

A pity.

focus_mad · 17-08-2009 7:34pm

Sorry about not replying on the thread, havent been on it in a while. I managed to get hold of plans which im viewing on Thursday in the Archives in Stephens Green. Waiting to hear back about a site visit.

I contacted the chap on the Abandoned Ireland website and he said you either have the key or your climbing.

I am trying to get access to a feasibility study that was done on it a few years ago to change it into a Heritage site but no luck so far.

Yeah there is access to the railway tunnel under the park through the Fort which when I have a copy of the plans I will scan on to this or if interested people want to Pm me I could send it on. It'll be on paper but im going to transcribe it onto AutoCad to use for my project.

AI · 18-08-2009 3:42pm

Yep it's a bugger of a climb getting into that place!

But yanno forts were generally built to keep people out!
I think the OPW are still playing around at something in there but most of it is totally uncared for and generally falling apart. Especially the buildings just inside the front gate which are in a dire state.
Quite unbelievable that a place like that right in the city which could obviously be a wonderful tourist attraction is left to rot. Then again I'm constantly amazed at the wealth of architecture lost in forests or hidden away at the back of farmers fields. Nobody here seems to care either! Recently I've been onto some of the UK heritage groups who at least seem to show an interest.

I'd be interested in seeing any of the plans of the fort or it's surrounds.

Good luck with your project! I'll publish your article on my website (full credit to you) if you're interested.

www.AbandonedIreland.com

afatbollix · 19-08-2009 12:09am

Have to say AI you have done fantastic work.. Opened my eyes to alot of stuff.. I thought there wasent many state homes.. Im sure most were burned down by the IRA?

AI · 19-08-2009 8:28am

focus_mad > forgot to say if you fail to get into the fort and need some pics for your project then give me a shout.

afatbollix > I'm keeping a lot of the big houses off my website as I'm planning a book :eek: Most of these places just fell into ruin, when the land and tenants were separated from the houses they just became unviable and the estates went bankrupt. That and the Ascendancy folk mostly disappeared back to England or went off to Australia or similar. The Old IRA did burn a fair few too but you have to take that situation in context.

S-Murph · 19-08-2009 6:39pm

Iv been in the fort numerous times, and took photo's in 2007. You can see them here: (over 100)

http://theplough.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=photosartgraffitiec&action=display&thread=1602

I looked for a connecting tunnel and found nothing of the sort. I very much doubt there is any tunnel connecting the fort. The place is open - all buildings appart from one or two are accessible.

Its an interesting place all the same.

Here are some links I found in 2007 in relation to the fort:

http://www.araskids.ie/html/park/magazine/index.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_Raid

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eamon_Martin

http://www.searcs-web.com/brady.html

It appears its going to be restored...
http://www.irish-architecture.com/news/2001/000252.htm

http://historical-debates.oireachtas.ie/D/0079/D.0079.194003050012.html

http://www.indymedia.ie/article/69521

http://www.achart.ca/hibernian/chapter01.html

http://www.achart.ca/hibernian/chapter02.html

http://www.travel.dk.com/dublin/dk/highlight/phoenix-park

http://www.greatwar.ie/postwar.html

http://www.politics.ie/wiki/index.php?title=IRA

http://www.ireland.com/focus/easterrising/monday/article5a.htm

http://www.irishtourist.com/general_info....er_rising.shtml

http://forum.irishmilitaryonline.com/archive/index.php/t-6195.html

focus_mad · 20-08-2009 1:30am

Just checked me email there and saw there had been activity!!

I'm going into the OPW Archives tomorrow (Thursday) to view and copy plans for the Fort.

I was also contacted by a chap in the OPW saying that the Military Architecture Department will release plans to me as well so we may find out about this tunnel!!

A.I. > Thanks very much for the offer of the Photos which I will more than likely take you up on. My article is more so on a Change of use of the Fort and a Measured Survey. But if you feel viewers of your web site would be interested I be very much appreciate you putting it up. Also from looking on your website I may have an idea forming for my thesis!!! After I have a thorough think about it and consult with my lecturers I might PM you with a few questions if thats ok?

S-Murph > Thanks for those links for the fort and the link for the photos!!!

For this project I have still to gain confirmation from my lecturers in regards to the suitability of the Fort as my Project. However if my lecturers say it is unsuitable, I will still do it (on the side ) as I have this project and a thesis to do!!

Also I just want to thank everyone again with your suggestions and comments which all have been very positive!!:D

focus_mad · 21-08-2009 1:59am

I went into the Opw Archives today and was able to get inked site layout plan, a rough scaled plan of the ammunition storage side of the Fort and a A2 page with different inked sketches of aspects of the Fort.I will be contacting the OPW's own Architectural Sector and the Dept of Defence to see what they have as I have been given permission for these plans to be released to me once I contact them so....Fingers Crossed!!:D

Gippart · 26-08-2009 12:45am

hi focus mad,

I'm living in Chapelizod, very near the Magazine fort. I'm 18 now, and when I was younger one of my friends and I would fairly regularly explore the fort. There used to be holes in the gates, though they have since been repaired. We've had quite a few close shaves there (feet going through seemingly solid floorboards and interrupting a rave being a few

).

I'm currently doing a history project on the 1939 Christmas Raid of the fort by the IRA. VERY interesting so far, was in the National Library today checking out newspapers

if you want to give it a read when it's finished it would be very welcome.

do share anything you fish up, we're very interested in what you learn about it.

focus_mad · 26-08-2009 2:45pm

Gippart wrote: »

hi focus mad,

I'm living in Chapelizod, very near the Magazine fort. I'm 18 now, and when I was younger one of my friends and I would fairly regularly explore the fort. There used to be holes in the gates, though they have since been repaired. We've had quite a few close shaves there (feet going through seemingly solid floorboards and interrupting a rave being a few ).

I'm currently doing a history project on the 1939 Christmas Raid of the fort by the IRA. VERY interesting so far, was in the National Library today checking out newspapers if you want to give it a read when it's finished it would be very welcome.

do share anything you fish up, we're very interested in what you learn about it.

How are ya,

I'm waiting to her back from the Military Archives so ill see whats happening from that angle. The structural engineers are that did surveys on the Fort are waiting for Client confirmation so they can release plans to me. So im just playing a waiting game at the minute.

Yeah I'd more than happily gander over your project, Im sure its well worth the read!!

AI · 27-08-2009 4:56pm

1830s & 1900s maps attached
Fort has "vanished" on later map!

D7 · 01-09-2009 3:06pm

FYI i was looking at An Bord Snip and went to wikipedia, then downloaded the 2 vols of the Snip report. If you do the same you will see the OPW is firmly one of the targets for Snip's recommendations that economies are exercised. So I would imagine that not much is going to happen as most in the OPW will be worried they are for the chop. All this does not distract from the fact that the Fort has such colossal potential for Dublin and the Park...................i could picture it being renovated into a James Bond styled Restaurant/Casino with views over Dublin and to the hills, yet in Dublin..........next door to the Ambassador's residence................Dream on I suppose. It cannot be left to go into further ruination and decay.

Get the DIT colleges of Dublin actively involved in using its restoration for all the skills that are being taught to full time students....in conjunction with the OPW. I suppose Health & Safety issues then come into play and the lawyers wont let anyone do anything that goes beyond holding a Pen!

D7:D

focus_mad · 02-09-2009 7:01pm

There is a feasibility study for a Heritage Centre to be built within the site and Im still waiting to get my hands on the most up to date plans which the company that carried out the work will happily release to me upon approval by the OPW. Im trying to speed things along any way I can!!

The idea I had for a change of use for my project is either that Heritage Centre, a 5 star hotel or D7's ida which I may "borrow" if its quite alright with him/her???

D7 · 02-09-2009 11:59pm

Hi,

This is interesting to consider when bearing in mind the Fort, its the OPW's "Vision and Strategic Objective for the Park!!

Here's the link

http://www.phoenixpark.ie/about/visionstategicobjectives/

Principles need to be turned into practice ..............soon.

D7

PS Me is a He

gamgsam · 19-09-2009 12:04am

got in there today for a look around, magical place!

Couldn't find any tunnels though. I'm gonna head up again soon with some lights and take a closer look

Silverfish · 19-09-2009 12:08am

Interesting stuff focus_mad, keep us updated.

gamgsam, how'd you get in?

focus_mad · 19-09-2009 12:12am

gamgsam wrote: »

got in there today for a look around, magical place!

Couldn't find any tunnels though. I'm gonna head up again soon with some lights and take a closer look

How did ya get in? What day are ya thinking of going back in, would it be possible to tag along?:D

gamgsam · 19-09-2009 11:50am

Absolutely, your more than welcome. Do either of ye have a decent camera? my phone let me down last time.
Im not Going to say how I got in online, not a very good idea. But anyone who wants to know ill gladly pm. If you get there and take a look around itll be quite obvious.
pmd my number to ye, give me a shout as soon as you can

focus_mad · 19-09-2009 3:51pm

gamgsam wrote: »

Absolutely, your more than welcome. Do either of ye have a decent camera? my phone let me down last time.
Im not Going to say how I got in online, not a very good idea. But anyone who wants to know ill gladly pm. If you get there and take a look around itll be quite obvious.
pmd my number to ye, give me a shout as soon as you can

Yeah I've a decent enough camera, well a digital camera like..

I'll give ya a shout later on pal, I hada wander around the fort awhile ago but I'm not much of a climber haha

focus_mad · 01-10-2009 9:57pm

UH OH :mad:

Bad news...

The Office of Public Works have refused permission to the surveyors to release drawings to me so I think Im back to the drawing board, unless someone has a big ass ladder they want to lend me!!!!

Thanks very much for everyone's help, I really appreciate it!!

Al

r3nu4l · 02-10-2009 11:20am

Can you request them under the FOI act? Does FOI cover that?

focus_mad · 04-10-2009 4:13pm

r3nu4l wrote: »

Can you request them under the FOI act? Does FOI cover that?

Not too sure to be honest with ya,

I'm going to write to the OPW Director/Manager and include a letter from my college stating who I am and why I want the plans and see what happens.
Me da said they have to reply to a letter!

D7 · 22-11-2009 2:31pm

Did you write? If so, what was the reply?

focus_mad · 22-11-2009 5:34pm

D7 wrote: »

Did you write? If so, what was the reply?

To be honest with you I haven't written to them yet, I've been trying to locate another building to use for this project because we have to obtain approval and start our preliminary report before before xmas!!!

Willam Barker · 05-03-2011 7:05pm

Just back from a walk in the Park today and was thinking about the fort and how it should be renovated, my idea was for hostel type accommodation, cheap yet comfortable and not requiring the fabric of the fort to altered too much. Many of the visitors to the park are young foreign tourists, Germans, French, Spanish who love the freedom the park offers in the heart of the city.

Renovations such as this are labour intensive, lots of jobs, plus they leave a lasting legacy and ongoing tourist attraction. Kilmainham had to be saved by enthusiasts, maybe the Fort will require a similar approach?

vonny232 · 06-03-2011 12:18pm

Yeah I was also wandering around the outside of the fort yesterday.

I am sure that the fort will have a use. Unfortunately the fort is quite a treck away from the centre of dublin so it may not attract the visitor numbers to justify its restoration.

The OPW will have to be smart to find a decent use for this magnificently well built structure.

Regardless of its history, its a piece of Ireland heritage and should be respected.

I am originally fron England and have been surprised how the Irish government would allow so many historic buildings to fall into disrepair (AbandonedIreland illustrates this).
The UK has official organisations such as the National trust and English heritage and there would be an uproar if these buildings were allowed to fall prey to vandals and the weather.

KieranM · 29-03-2011 3:25pm

Hi, I wasnt able to access the picture S-Murphy put up...is there any chance anyone could send them to me? I am doing a product launch project for college and this would be a great location. I just need to use the photos for a mock up type thing. Any help would be great. Thanks in advance, Kieran

CDfm · 30-03-2011 7:27pm

KieranM wrote: »

Hi, I wasnt able to access the picture S-Murphy put up...is there any chance anyone could send them to me? I am doing a product launch project for college and this would be a great location. I just need to use the photos for a mock up type thing. Any help would be great. Thanks in advance, Kieran

You are in luck - Tarquin Blake posts here and he is an expert on what you are looking at

AI wrote: »

My exhibition 'Abandoned Mansions of Ireland' reopens at Castletown House, Celbridge on Friday 1st April and runs until 2nd May.
The exhibition is installed in the main front hall of the house and is FREE admission.

Castletown is one of the finest historic houses in Ireland and is well worth a visit. Enjoy.

Here is a link to his site and the Magazine Fort pages

http://www.abandonedireland.com/pf.html

Aruale · 25-02-2012 12:17am

Hi Focus Mad,

I'm studying Architecture in DIT and i'm also wanting to do my project about the Magazine Fort in Phoenix Park. I was wondering if you finally managed to get any plans of the area and if you could share with me the information you were able to obtain. Maybe we could talk through email...
I would be very grateful if you could answer soon as I need to decide in less than a week whether i choose the Fort for my project or not, depending on how much information i'm able to collect.
Thank you very much and kind regards,

Aruale

pedroeibar1 · 25-02-2012 5:56pm

have a look over on Archiseek
http://www.archiseek.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=7758&p=102096&hilit=magazine#p102096

EdFine1 · 22-05-2012 11:33am

Is it still possible to get into the fort?

CDfm · 22-05-2012 5:55pm

EdFine1 wrote: »

Is it still possible to get into the fort?

Good question.

You should probably look at Tarquin Blake's Abandoned Ireland and email him. He is always helpful with info and replies to emails.

EdFine1 · 22-05-2012 6:08pm

Thank you kindly, CDfm. Will do.

Artcru · 09-01-2013 1:48am

Hi Al,

I'm an architecture student at London met and our project this year is in Dublin.
I'm also interested in Fort Magazine but I'm finding difficult to get the plans.
Did you manage to get them? If so, would you please share or tell me who should I speak too?

Thank you

Artur Félix da Cruz

johnny_doyle · 09-01-2013 6:47am

head over to the Bureau of Military History website

http://www.militaryarchives.ie/collections/online-collections/maps-plans-drawings-collection

There are a number of documents/plans relating to the Magazine Fort as well as other military buildings.

Artcru · 10-01-2013 11:51pm

johnny_doyle wrote: »

head over to the Bureau of Military History website

http://www.militaryarchives.ie/collections/online-collections/maps-plans-drawings-collection

There are a number of documents/plans relating to the Magazine Fort as well as other military buildings.

Thank you!!

fortresident · 09-02-2013 8:29pm

Hi All, I know this coversation is old, but I just came across it..... I lived in the Magazine Fort from 1968 to 1978. It was awonderful place for children to grow up...not so good when we became teenagers & could not have our friends visit our home....Security was tight then. There definately no tunnel in the fort.....No ammunitions have been held there since the raid in 1939. Just stores for the army & the pagentry items that were used in 1966 for the 50th anniversary for 1916. There is a very good reason why the Fort cannot not be used for other purposes, such as a musium .....I cannot divulge the reason here as it is protected under the State Secrets Act...I am happy to comment on the buildings & interior of the fort, if there is anything you wish to know.........Glad to see my old home place stirring some interest

Seanchai · 13-02-2013 4:43pm

focus_mad wrote: »

The Office of Public Works have refused permission to the surveyors to release drawings to me so I think Im back to the drawing board, unless someone has a big ass ladder they want to lend me!!!!

r3nu4l wrote: »

Can you request them under the FOI act?

Let me know how you get on with this one as someone robbed me ladder last year! :P

Seanchai · 13-02-2013 4:56pm

Google Earth's satellite image of the Magazine Fort is quite informative when you zoom in:

Magazine Fort, Phoenix Park

Interesting design. What's the background to the fort's star-shaped architecture?

pedroeibar1 · 14-02-2013 11:55am

Seanchai wrote: »

Interesting design. What's the background to the fort's star-shaped architecture?

Star shaped forts (traces italiennes) are a standard military design to improve fields of fire. Supposedly initially created by Michelangelo and ‘perfected’ by Vauban, Louis XIV’s military architect. The Phoenix park fort dates to the 1730’s so its design is of that era.

macmurphe · 26-03-2013 2:34am

hi i have just joined as i was looking up on the raid, i to am hoping to do some work on the 1939 raid as i believe the MP on the gate was my grandfather. So if i can find out more about as i am family i hope to pass on as a story

RDM_83 again · 01-04-2013 11:34pm

Seanchai wrote: »

Google Earth's satellite image of the Magazine Fort is quite informative when you zoom in:

Magazine Fort, Phoenix Park

Interesting design. What's the background to the fort's star-shaped architecture?

There was also plans to build an enormous star-fort in the Pheonix Park, I don't have a proper reference to this a quick google just gives mentions of Wharton's Folly in relation to Finegans wake and this earlier planned fort, I do remember seeing it on a map on the wall of (I think) TCD and it was going to be very very large (a refugee for the Protestant population of Dublin AFAIK)

Magazine Fort, Phoenix Park

Comments