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Irish WWII POW's
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13-04-2012 11:29pm#1
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Once again the OP has started a thread which seems based on little fact but dodgy links and half truths. Something like the British propaganda myth of the Crucified Canadian soldier of WW1 which was featured on Discovery a while ago.jonniebgood1 wrote: »Robert Widders has recently published a book about Irish POW's in the far east during WWII. It details many horrors from the experiences of these Irishmen- 650 people from Ireland were POW's of the Japanese with a 23% mortality rate. I was surprised at the number and the wide dispersal across the country, rural and urban. I thought it an important book in documenting these facts as he did manage to talk to many of these men (mainly) who are of course getting fewer and fewer. Book review here http://www.independent.ie/entertainment/books/review-history-the-emperors-irish-slaves-prisoners-of-the-japanese-in-the-second-world-war-by-robert-widders-3016721.html .One of the more extreme of death's suffered by Irish men was a crucifiction detailed in the book- apparantly this was quite a widespread method of execution as a deterrant to other prisoners. Naturally people generally did not survive to tell of this but one man -Ringer Edwards, an australian did.In Japan, crucifixion was used as a punishment for prisoners of war during World War II. Ringer Edwards, an Australian prisoner of war was crucified for killing cattle, along with two others. He survived 63 hours before being let down. http://www.websters-dictionary-onlin...&sa=Search#906
In another point the author writes of 2 brothers form Cork, the detail is repeated by same author here http://irishecho.com/?p=70250
This lead me to think what other experiences Irishmen and women active in WWII had, in either the far east or Europe.
As per OP " One of the more extreme of death's suffered by Irish men was a crucifiction detailed in the book " If you actually read through the link * provided by him, you'll find it the OP's statement is based on little fact - " Sergeant Priestman did not use the words crucifixion when he later gave evidence for a post-war war crimes tribunal. But perhaps his description speaks for itself. In the undergrowth nearby we found three bamboo crosses, about seven feet by four feet. We also saw another bamboo cross jutting out of the ground. We uncovered it and found the dead body of a British soldier, tied to the cross with his arms outstretched"
* http://irishecho.com/?p=702500 -
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On an aside , Terrence O'Neill the 1960's NI Prime Minister was also shot down over Holland and was reputedly sheltered by a Dutch catholic family and that influenced his policies.
Are you sure about that ? When O'Neill was Prime Minister he was called '' Captain '' which was a reference to his wartime rank in the Irish Guards , he did not serve in the RAF
P.S. Just saw that bit in Wikipedia , interesting , I never knew that.0 -
Are you sure about that ? When O'Neill was Prime Minister he was called '' Captain '' which was a reference to his wartime rank in the Irish Guards , he did not serve in the RAF
I certainly have read it and I always assumed that it was as a passenger as opposed to a pilot. I think I read it in connection with his wife who died in 2008.
I said reputedly as I don't have a source but when I came across it he has maintained a friendship and it was given as the reason for his views on catholics. Here is what I found in a rememberence by Sir Kenneth BloomfieldHis wartime service
with the Irish Guards meant a great deal to him and he never forgot his
companions of those testing years, whether they were regimental
brothers-in-arms or the Ten Horn family of Nijmegen, who opened
their home to him when he was wounded during the attack. As O’Neill
himself wrote
As history records, we never reached Arnhem. I myself was slightly
wounded on the north of the Nijmegen Bridge and, as we were cut off
for a week because the slender line to Nijmegen had been recaptured,
I spent a week in the hospitable home of the Ten Horn
http://www.ancestryireland.com/fileadmin/uhf_pdfs/Familia_pdfs/Familia_2002/Terence_O_Neill___1914-1990__Remembered.pdf
Henry Clark his friend was both unionist and non sectarian.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/obituaries/2012/0407/1224314498683.html0 -
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22 Irish POW's were victims of a controversial incident in the far east. The 'Lisbon Maru' Japanese ship was being used as a transport ship taking troops to Japan in September 1942. The ship had no identification to show its POW cargo and was sunk by an American submarine.
The Lisbon Maru.
The ship was one of what are described as 'hellships' due to the conditions on board. The following report seems to be on of the more balanced descriptions (as in it describes the positives of the first few days of the transport). It is worth reading:
http://www.fepow-community.org.uk/arthur_lane/html/sinking_of_the_lisbon_maru.htmAt 0700hrs on the 1st of October, all the prisoners were waiting in the holds for morning roll call, suddenly without warning a torpedo struck and the ship shuddered to a halt. There was no casualties among the prisoners, the torpedo having hit the bunkers below the water line. The few prisoners who at that time were on deck, were immediately pushed back into the nearest hold and Japanese sentries were placed on the entrance of each hold. The
prisoners remained perfectly calm as they listened to depth charges being dropped by the Japanese navy. The ships three inch gun on the after deck began to fire rather spasmodically, and later the sound of Japanese planes could be heard dropping bombs, and the sound of depth charges exploding.
Many of the prisoners were suffering from dysentery and diarrhoea, so the attack accentuated their predicament, and although requests were made to the Japanese for these men to be allowed on deck to use the receptacles provided, they were refused, with the inevitable results.
There was no breakfast issued, which might have been just as well
considering the stench and filth. No one was allowed on deck for any reason and for the next seven hours in the stifling heat there was no communication at all with the Japanese. Suddenly at dusk, around seven o'clock in the evening, the Japanese began to batten down the hatches.Lt Colonel Stewart the senior British officer on board began to remonstrate with the Japanese, requesting that they should at least leave one balk of timber to help provide a little air.
The request was followed by an order from the Japanese commander for all the hatches to be battened down and covered with tarpaulins, which were then roped down.There was now no means of exit and with no fresh air flow, the conditions worsened very rapidly, but through it all the men remained calm and obedient.
....
By dawn of the 2nd October, twenty four hours after the torpedo had struck, the air in the holds was becoming dangerously foul, the ship began to lurch and stagger, it was evident that she was going to sink.Since all requests to the Japanese had been ignored or refused, Lt Colonel Stewart authorised a small party to attempt to break out, principally to persuade the Japanese to at least give them a fighting chance.
Men with long knives had already been stationed by the hatch, and on the orders of Colonel Stewart, began to push their knives up through the balks of timber above them to cut away the ropes and tarpaulin. The operation was successful, Lt Howell and Lt Potter plus one or two others climbed onto the deck and walked slowly toward the bridge asking to be allowed to talk to the captain of the ship.
The Japanese opened fire with their rifles hitting Lt Potter and one or two other ranks who had climbed onto the deck LT Potter subsequently died. The remaining men returned to the hold and reported to Colonel Stewart that the ship was very low in the water and evidently about to sink. From a distance, the Japanese started to fire into the hold. Suddenly the ship lurched and began sinking by the stern, the water rushing into the now open hold. The stern resting on a sand bank and the forward section remained protruding from the water for about an hour.
As soon as it was realised that the ship was sinking, the men with the knives began to hack at the ropes on the other hatches. The men from number one and two hold formed queues to escape, but the men of number three hold were unfortunately now below the water line, and it was not possible for those with knives to be able to cut away the ropes and tarpaulin The Japanese soldiers and sailors who were standing by aboard ships alongside, now began to fire at the escaping prisoners, and at those swimming in the water.0 -
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