Docklands Station - what could have been

Victor · 14-06-2007 12:17am #1

These are photos (the break in the middle is a lamp post) of the section of the Spencer Dock site immediately south of Docklands Station - it will become a park when the work on the apartments is finished.

It really makes you wonder why they didn't bring the station further south at Mayor Street (approximately the location of the tall blue / navy crane). Doing this would have brought the Luas line (to run on Mayor Street) 200m closer and meant a stop would be right outside the door.

Now its isn't a generous amount of space, but it would work.

MarkoP11 · 14-06-2007 12:25am

That was more or less the plan over a decade ago, in fact a lot of us believed up until early last year that the station would front onto Mayor Street

Why not?

Developer interests came before the public interest and CIE are pocketing a heap of cash out of Spencer Dock

Maskhadov · 14-06-2007 12:38am

Another example of bad planning.

Bluetonic · 14-06-2007 9:04am

It looks like it would have cost more and taken a lot longer.

Wouldn't the arches under Upper Sherrif Street have to be reconstructed, and as a result Upper Sherrif Street closed off for a period?

The space between where Mayor Street will be extended and Upper Sherrif Street doesn't seem big enough to allow a long train to sit there so wouldn't part of the platform have to be under Upper Sherrif Street?

Won't this be a non issue in ten years time?

dmeehan · 14-06-2007 12:41pm

Bluetonic wrote:

Won't this be a non issue in ten years time?

fingers crossed:D

Enigma365 · 14-06-2007 1:23pm

Won't this be a non issue in ten years time?

Eight supposedly. I think a lot of people still get confused between the current temporary docklands station and the permament one that will be built beside/under the river to serve one end of the inter connector and the luas.

That is of course assuming things go ahead as planned, which almost never happenes when it comes to public transport in Ireland.

loyatemu · 14-06-2007 1:53pm

even so - it can't be more that 5 minutes walk from Docklands station to the Spencer Dock luas stop. Its hardly worth getting upset about.

MarkoP11 · 14-06-2007 1:55pm

You call that intergration?

Winters · 14-06-2007 2:00pm

Enigma365 wrote:

Eight supposedly. I think a lot of people still get confused between the current temporary docklands station and the permament one that will be built beside/under the river to serve one end of the inter connector and the luas.

That is of course assuming things go ahead as planned, which almost never happenes when it comes to public transport in Ireland.

The 'Docklands' station shall be built under the Liffey with entrances in public squares in Spencer Dock and at the chimney in Grand Canal Dock. I think due to the location that the name Spencer Dock has been dropped in favour of 'Docklands'.

KC61 · 14-06-2007 2:19pm

MarkoP11 wrote:

You call that intergration?

No, but there is one high frequency bus service (151) and another (93) specifically timed to meet trains that operate from directly outside the station so it's not as if people are stranded there.

loyatemu · 14-06-2007 4:40pm

google earth says its about 300m from the station to the proposed Spencer Dock Luas stop - this is about the same as from the Dart platforms in Connolly to the Luas stop there. Anyway the station is built, no point harping on about it.

Bluetonic · 14-06-2007 4:52pm

Enigma365 wrote:

Eight supposedly. I think a lot of people still get confused between the current temporary docklands station and the permament one that will be built beside/under the river to serve one end of the inter connector and the luas.

So thats eight years less the two years it will be until the LUAS is actually operational down there, so we're talking about a lot more building work for a 6 year station, then saying to the folk living down Spencer Dock thanks for letting us use and abuse your space, now you can have it back.

strassenwolf · 14-06-2007 5:12pm

Bluetonic wrote:

So thats eight years less the two years it will be until the LUAS is actually operational down there, so we're talking about a lot more building work for a 6 year station, then saying to the folk living down Spencer Dock thanks for letting us use and abuse your space, now you can have it back.

Huh?

Which came first? The station, or residents in Spencer Dock?

Time Magazine · 14-06-2007 5:40pm

MarkoP11 wrote:

Developer interests came before the public interest and CIE are pocketing a heap of cash out of Spencer Dock

Interesting. Your (and your organisation's) opinions are fairly well-respected in the public's eye. You think the planning situation at Spencer Dock was to the benefit of developers.

It might be of interest, then, for people to read that the Spencer Dock Development Company donated €6,349 (the maximum amount normally allowed) to Fianna Fáil in 2002, the year of a General Election.

strassenwolf · 14-06-2007 6:07pm

Ibid wrote:

Interesting. Your (and your organisation's) opinions are fairly well-respected in the public's eye.

Are they?

Source?

Time Magazine · 14-06-2007 6:11pm

strassenwolf wrote:

Are they?

Source?

You want a source confirming an organisation is well-respected in the public's eye?

Do you want a source that I commute as well? :rolleyes:

lucernarian · 14-06-2007 6:18pm

strassenwolf wrote:

Are they?

Source?

Do you want him to carry out a public survey or someting?? It's not like I hear people muttering about Platform 11 under their breaths...:rolleyes:

strassenwolf · 14-06-2007 7:22pm

Ibid wrote:

You want a source confirming an organisation is well-respected in the public's eye?

Do you want a source that I commute as well? :rolleyes:

Two entirely different things. Whether you commute or not is not a matter of opinion. You either do or you don't.

You did, however, express an opinion that Platform 11 is well respected in the public's eye. What are you basing this on? The views of the people you commute with? The people you work with? Who? And are there a sufficient number of these views enough for you to make the sweeping generalisation that they are "well-respected in the public's eye?"

Bluetonic · 14-06-2007 7:57pm

strassenwolf wrote:

Huh?

Which came first? The station, or residents in Spencer Dock?

I would say the apartment owners (the future residents) came first.

Off the plans sales have been going on a number of years for Spencer Dock, also the people living on Major Street have been been expecting a green space for even longer.

(ps no source for the above)

Slice · 14-06-2007 9:27pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ibid
Interesting. Your (and your organisation's) opinions are fairly well-respected in the public's eye.

Are they?

Source?

I'd first like to clarify that I'm not a member of P11 nor do I agree with their positions on all (or even most) issues. I speak in the interest of the forum in saying this; that's the type of comment that is one of the reasons why P11 members rarely post on this forum anymore. That often makes the discussions here a lot less interesting.

In order words; that's the type of gypsie-lips comment that's intended to be nothing other than inflamatory while at the same time lacking in anything that adds to the discussion on this particular thread

Time Magazine · 14-06-2007 9:44pm

strassenwolf wrote:

Two entirely different things. Whether you commute or not is not a matter of opinion. You either do or you don't.

You did, however, express an opinion that Platform 11 is well respected in the public's eye. What are you basing this on? The views of the people you commute with? The people you work with? Who? And are there a sufficient number of these views enough for you to make the sweeping generalisation that they are "well-respected in the public's eye?"

Excepting from the point that not all truths carry proofs, your semantics do not warrant a substantive response or a derailing of the thread. The primary point of information provided in my post, that a Spencer Dock Development Company donated a large sum to the government party and that accusations of "bad planning" are going around, is there for anyone to see. There is of course probably nothing inherently connected to these two entities, but it does arouse suspicion and imo warrants its inclusion in the collation of information on this thread.

strassenwolf · 14-06-2007 10:16pm

Slice wrote:

I'd first like to clarify that I'm not a member of P11 nor do I agree with their positions on all (or even most) issues. I speak in the interest of the forum in saying this; that's the type of comment that is one of the reasons why P11 members rarely post on this forum anymore. That often makes the discussions here a lot less interesting.

In order words; that's the type of gypsie-lips comment that's intended to be nothing other than inflamatory while at the same time lacking in anything that adds to the discussion on this particular thread

Slice, it was not intended to be inflammatory. It was, however, such a generalisation that it could not go unchallenged. I am of the opinion that while Platform 11 have done a lot of good work on ticketing issues and providing useful suggestions about how rail services can be improved, their record on infrastructure has not been very good.

I shall restate my position as follows:

Ibid wrote:

Your (and your organisation's) opinions are fairly well-respected in the public's eye.

As a member of the public, I wish to dissociate myself from the above comment.

And hopefully we can leave it at that.

strassenwolf · 14-06-2007 10:25pm

Ibid wrote:

The primary point of information provided in my post, that a Spencer Dock Development Company donated a large sum to the government party and that accusations of "bad planning" are going around, is there for anyone to see. There is of course probably nothing inherently connected to these two entities, but it does arouse suspicion and imo warrants its inclusion in the collation of information on this thread.

The whole issue of Spencer Dock, and the deal which saw CIE flog off a share in a fantastic asset, is extremely murky. In terms of the value of that land it would put the whole toll bridge saga in the ha'penny place. The subsequent locating of Docklands Station where it now is, rather than in a more accessible location for many - such as the place Victor suggested above - is indicative of what has gone on. But facilitation of the developers rather than the travelling public really is the name of the game.

Victor · 14-06-2007 11:14pm

Bluetonic wrote:

It looks like it would have cost more and taken a lot longer.

The only extra cost would have been 200m of double track, although there would perhaps have had to be extra sound attenuation.

Wouldn't the arches under Upper Sherrif Street have to be reconstructed, and as a result Upper Sherrif Street closed off for a period?

They are railway arches and have dealt with trains for more than 150 year.

The space between where Mayor Street will be extended and Upper Sherrif Street doesn't seem big enough to allow a long train to sit there so wouldn't part of the platform have to be under Upper Sherrif Street?

I suspect you might be limited to about 180m instead of 200m of platform, but that will only affect the longest of trains. Which aren't there.

Of course, that section of Luas could have been elevated (or sunk) to allow 300m trains.

Won't this be a non issue in ten years time?

So we will only have to deal with 10 years of mediocrity? Should I mention the new bus station to be built in the Connolly Station car park, which will be further from Luas again?

Victor · 15-06-2007 1:00am

Oh, and on-topic please.

Slice · 15-06-2007 4:59pm

strassenwolf started it! :rolleyes:

dowlingm · 17-06-2007 4:23am

strassenwolf - P11 does coverage from a passenger's point of view on various media outlets. Do you believe rail passengers have not benefited from Barry Kenny having to raise his game? I agree the original post was a bit off-key (not sure to what extent the general public are aware of P11 even though they have been working on that) but you seem to have some kind of deeper hostility to them.

Comment?

strassenwolf · 17-06-2007 2:38pm

dowlingm, I really can't make any further comment on this thread, after Victor's message above.

dowlingm · 17-06-2007 5:47pm

private message will do fine, or maybe a separate thread if that would suit victor

Docklands Station - what could have been

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