Arsenal Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2011/2012

Dempsey · 10-05-2012 2:01pm

batistuta9 wrote: »

pat rice was defender, no one ever mentions this. it's just bring back adams, keown, bould etc. they'll sort the defence out, will they make much of a difference?

I was under the impression that Bould was considered a better coach than Rice?

emergingstar wrote: »

I guess you don't follow the u18s they ship as many stupid goals as the first team

That's not to take away from
Bould think he is a great appointment, and bandied been promoted too is only a good thing

No, havent watched the u18's.

Arsenal seemed to be in need of changing/freshening up the backroom setup, no?

emergingstar · 10-05-2012 2:04pm

Dempsey wrote: »

batistuta9 wrote: »

pat rice was defender, no one ever mentions this. it's just bring back adams, keown, bould etc. they'll sort the defence out, will they make much of a difference?

I was under the impression that Bould was considered a better coach than Rice?

emergingstar wrote: »

I guess you don't follow the u18s they ship as many stupid goals as the first team

That's not to take away from
Bould think he is a great appointment, and bandied been promoted too is only a good thing

No, havent watched the u18's.

Arsenal seemed to be in need of changing/freshening up the backroom setup, no?

No I agree and i think bould is the right man for the job

Was just saying don't expect him to work miracles with the defence

batistuta9 · 10-05-2012 3:27pm

Dempsey wrote: »

I was under the impression that Bould was considered a better coach than Rice?

I don't if he is or not tbh but it'd be logical to think that rice would have had some input to them defensively & given them advice on it. Maybe bould will be better at this or have a more updated approach to it.

although how much time arsenal work defensively or on positioning could be another story but with a DM being rumoured heavily - m'vila, martinez, biglia - maybe thing'll change although you could see paolo maldini being a coach at arsenal & them still being weak at the back

Dempsey wrote: »

No, havent watched the u18's.

Arsenal seemed to be in need of changing/freshening up the backroom setup, no?

it's been mentioned that one of the reasons arsenal haven't gone on & won things the past few years is that under wenger it's always been the same staff, rice & primorac

and that it's sort of gone a bit stale or it's always the same, not that their yes men - although i don't know - but maybe that they don't offer enough different thoughts to wenger.
But maybe it's wenger's way or no way, we don't really know

the other example that was given when i read this was ferguson, who's changed his staff numerous times - mc claren, queiroz, mike phelan etc. - and continued to win

although you can see one continued winning trophies & the other didn't, i'm not sure how much of an effect it really had on both clubs. or if managers who change staff regularly win more

meriwether · 10-05-2012 3:57pm

emergingstar wrote: »

No I agree and i think bould is the right man for the job

Was just saying don't expect him to work miracles with the defence

If I had my way, Gorgeous George Graham would take over the defence.

I'd like to see Song and vermalen fanny about after that.

tayto lover · 10-05-2012 4:15pm

I'd like to see us sign a proper left-back. Man Utd now linked to Everton's Baines because Evra has had a bad season overall. I think we should have gone for him last season or even go now. This is a position that we are leaking goals from.

10-05-2012 4:25pm

meriwether wrote: »

If I had my way, Gorgeous George Graham would take over the defence.

I'd like to see Song and vermalen fanny about after that.

Careful now, you will upset someone talking like that.;)

Galvasean · 10-05-2012 4:36pm

RVP 11 wrote: »

Can you not afford one?

Good burn *tips hat*
Actually, now that i think about it, I havent bought either of this season's kits yet. Might see if I can pick up the away one on the cheap next time I'm out n' about.

emergingstar wrote: »

I guess you don't follow the u18s they ship as many stupid goals as the first team

Is that not more to do with Bould often having to field a team full of 15 year olds because all of the older lads have been called up into the reserves?

premierstone · 10-05-2012 4:56pm

tayto lover wrote: »

I'd like to see us sign a proper left-back. Man Utd now linked to Everton's Baines because Evra has had a bad season overall. I think we should have gone for him last season or even go now. This is a position that we are leaking goals from.

Absolutely agree 100%, Left back is a major weakness for Arsenal, neither Gibbs or Santos have the neccessary defensive positioning/qualities required.

DenMan · 10-05-2012 4:59pm

I think I'm going to cry!

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/sport/football/im-not-interested-in-signing-yann-mvila-for-arsenal-says-arsene-wenger-7734166.html

HazDanz · 10-05-2012 5:03pm

premierstone wrote: »

Absolutely agree 100%, Left back is a major weakness for Arsenal, neither Gibbs or Santos have the neccessary defensive positioning/qualities required.

I don't think Wenger will try fix that area. He has faith in Gibbs I reckon. In fairness he hasn't been the worst, his final ball could do with some practice and the more he plays the better he will become at positioning. He just needs time.

Sort out the DM position first and a lot of our problems defensively will go away.

HazDanz · 10-05-2012 5:05pm

DenMan wrote: »

I think I'm going to cry!

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/sport/football/im-not-interested-in-signing-yann-mvila-for-arsenal-says-arsene-wenger-7734166.html

Ugh. Hope he just has his poker face on.

Mickeroo · 10-05-2012 5:05pm

DenMan wrote: »

I think I'm going to cry!

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/sport/football/im-not-interested-in-signing-yann-mvila-for-arsenal-says-arsene-wenger-7734166.html

This will end up like the year we signed Chamakh. Thought it was a signal of intent that he signed a striker early on and then not a thing for the rest of the summer. Then again,maybe he's just keeping his cards close to his chest.

meriwether · 10-05-2012 5:36pm

Mickeroo wrote: »

This will end up like the year we signed Chamakh. Thought it was a signal of intent that he signed a striker early on and then not a thing for the rest of the summer. Then again,maybe he's just keeping his cards close to his chest.

We're going to sign Charlie Adam.

Mark my words.

ImpossibleDuck · 10-05-2012 5:49pm

tayto lover wrote: »

I'd like to see us sign a proper left-back. Man Utd now linked to Everton's Baines because Evra has had a bad season overall. I think we should have gone for him last season or even go now. This is a position that we are leaking goals from.

While I agree 100%, it won't happen. Unless we can find a club who will guarantee they'll take Gibbs or Santos off our hands after we find a replacement this won't happen. Think about it; if Wenger bought a well-established left-back, then we'd have three fit for the role. Unless we manage to find a buyer early it won't work.

Also, aren't we in a situation whereby we kind of have to keep Gibbs (and Song for that matter in response to the M'Vila transfer) because of the lack of home-grown players we now have? This is going by what's been said in this thread, but I think we can't really afford to sell one of our home-grown players due to the amount required in the 25-man over-21 squad.

*I don't think "home-grown" is correct either, it may be players who have trained with us for a certain number of years or from a certain age or something like that.

tayto lover · 10-05-2012 5:53pm

ImpossibleDuck wrote: »

While I agree 100%, it won't happen. Unless we can find a club who will guarantee they'll take Gibbs or Santos off our hands after we find a replacement this won't happen. Think about it; if Wenger bought a well-established left-back, then we'd have three fit for the role. Unless we manage to find a buyer early it won't work.

Also, aren't we in a situation whereby we kind of have to keep Gibbs (and Song for that matter in response to the M'Vila transfer) because of the lack of home-grown players we now have? This is going by what's been said in this thread, but I think we can't really afford to sell one of our home-grown players due to the amount required in the 25-man over-21 squad.

*I don't think "home-grown" is correct either, it may be players who have trained with us for a certain number of years or from a certain age or something like that.

Even at that Santos looks like he could easily slot in at the left side of midfield and Gibbs could cover for a new left-back. Wenger has to know that we keep shipping goals from that position.

gnfnrhead · 10-05-2012 6:18pm

ImpossibleDuck wrote: »

*I don't think "home-grown" is correct either, it may be players who have trained with us for a certain number of years or from a certain age or something like that.

3 years training under the age of 21 makes them home grown afaik.

We can easily fill the quota, but it means having to register under 21's who don't need to be registered to play. It's using up other slots in the 25. I personally think 25 is too small to begin with.

emergingstar · 10-05-2012 7:10pm

I'm quiet happy with Gibbs thought he done fairly good he is still young and hopefully will improve

I don't think bould will do much coaching that's why banfield was promoted too
Banfield and primac will both do most of the coaching

batistuta9 · 10-05-2012 8:55pm

ImpossibleDuck wrote: »

Also, aren't we in a situation whereby we kind of have to keep Gibbs (and Song for that matter in response to the M'Vila transfer) because of the lack of home-grown players we now have? This is going by what's been said in this thread, but I think we can't really afford to sell one of our home-grown players due to the amount required in the 25-man over-21 squad.

*I don't think "home-grown" is correct either, it may be players who have trained with us for a certain number of years or from a certain age or something like that.

gnfnrhead wrote: »

3 years training under the age of 21 makes them home grown afaik.

We can easily fill the quota, but it means having to register under 21's who don't need to be registered to play. It's using up other slots in the 25. I personally think 25 is too small to begin with.

there is no real home grown quota as such lads, well not the way your picking up on it anyway - you've got it wrong way around or the way the FA wanted people to hear it

This is what it is in reality:
1. maximum squad sizes of over 21's is to be limited to 25 players
2. of those 25, no more than 17 can be non homegrown

so if you want to name a 25 man squad & with 17 non homegrown in that squad the other 8 have to be homegrown. well because they can't be anything else

you don't have to name a 25 man squad though - it's just the maximum
you can name a squad of 17 non homegrown if you want & get the rest from the u21's

arsenal only named a 22 man squad this year with 17 non homegrown & only 5 homegrown squad list on clubs site

so there's no minimum number of homegrown players required at all really, it's more the fact that there's a limit on non homegrown

ImpossibleDuck · 10-05-2012 9:18pm

batistuta9 wrote: »

there is no real home grown quota as such lads, well not the way your picking up on it anyway - you've got it wrong way around or the way the FA wanted people to hear it

This is what it is in reality:
1. maximum squad sizes of over 21's is to be limited to 25 players
2. of those 25, no more than 17 can be non homegrown

so if you want to name a 25 man squad & with 17 non homegrown in that squad the other 8 have to be homegrown. well because they can't be anything else

you don't have to name a 25 man squad though - it's just the maximum
you can name a squad of 17 non homegrown if you want & get the rest from the u21's

arsenal only named a 22 man squad this year with 17 non homegrown & only 5 homegrown squad list on clubs site

so there's no minimum number of homegrown players required at all really, it's more the fact that there's a limit on non homegrown

Your right there, that's it.

It still puts us in a bad situation if we have a small amount of home-grown players though doesn't it? Then we have to name less players to compensate, right?

Galvasean · 10-05-2012 11:19pm

I think Gibbs is good at LB, but not very good. Personally if we are to compete at the highest level we need somebody great in every position with somebody like Gibbs as a good back up player (in Gibbs' case he may too have the potential to become very good or great in the future and possibly make the place his own, like what Clichy did when Cole left).

For those of you wondering what the hell my class scale is it's:

crap - poor - average - good - very good - great - world beater.

emergingstar · 11-05-2012 12:40am

Just throwing this out there

Pirès' first season at AFC: 33 games played, 4 goals, 7 assists (league). Gervinho's first: 25 games played, 4 goals, 6 assists (league)

Galvasean · 11-05-2012 2:26am

emergingstar wrote: »

Just throwing this out there

Pirès' first season at AFC: 33 games played, 4 goals, 7 assists (league). Gervinho's first: 25 games played, 4 goals, 6 assists (league)

Now that IS interesting. When he started out for us I was genuinely excited by his pace and guile, but hoped his end product would get better in time. However through the season he seems to have gotten worse; more flash and tricks and no end product - perhaps due to a lack of confidence?
However, that Pires comparison fills me with renewed hope. I have little recollection of Pires' earlier work at Arsenal, just the awesome stuff!
Hopefully Gervinho can make similar progress.

Hank Scorpio · 11-05-2012 2:37am

emergingstar wrote: »

Just throwing this out there

Pirès' first season at AFC: 33 games played, 4 goals, 7 assists (league). Gervinho's first: 25 games played, 4 goals, 6 assists (league)

Not an Arsenal fan but seen you mentioned Pires, one of my favourite players in the EPL. I can't remember many good games where Gervinho was anything better than average, Chelsea away he played well but I'm lost to think of other games. Didn't see all of Arsenals games this season so maybe I'm missing some!

He's well able to beat a man and glide past people, It's his decision making and shooting/crossing that seems to be poor, same arguements some people place(d) against Walcott, but Walcott has scored some nice goals this season, where as Gervinho's shots look like they came from a Fr Ted over 75's match

I guess the question you're asking is can/will Gervinho be better next season, I think he will better but really struggle to see him get anywhere near the level that Pires reached.

Love the song in this clip, video aint bad either

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28S8kFG7hBM

gnfnrhead · 11-05-2012 2:50am

I don't recall Pires ever running around like the headless chicken impression we see Gervinho do most weeks. I'm more than happy to give him another year or two but if he doesn't show any signs of improvement we'd be better off cutting our losses.

batistuta9 · 11-05-2012 3:45am

ImpossibleDuck wrote: »

Your right there, that's it.

It still puts us in a bad situation if we have a small amount of home-grown players though doesn't it? Then we have to name less players to compensate, right?

having a small amount of them or even 0 doesn't matter as long as you don't name over 17 non homegrown players. It doesn't put us in a bad position having a small number of homegrown players.

if anything the homegrown players can be a bit of a hindrance at a club like arsenal, who buy a lot of foreign players, and when combined with players in the u21's who feature either regularly or sometimes in the first team, becoming older each year it doesn't really help arsenal either

for example if no one was to leave arsenal this summer, going by that squad list i posted in the last post - 17 non HG & 5 HG - and if these players were no longer u21: szczesny, wilshere, ramsey, chamberlain, frimpong, coquelin, jenkinson and these foreigners are signed: podolski, m'vila, dempsey.
that'd leave numbers like this: 20 non HG & 12 HG. 3 of the non HG would have to be dropped no matter what - to leave them at 17 & if you want to include anything more than 8 HG, even more of the non HG will need to be left out

so you might end up seeing arsenal & the other top english sides putting more effort into finding the best 17/18 year old's in europe even more so in the future & being more selective of the non HG players they buy

and what do you mean "compensate" i don't get you, compensate for what?

11-05-2012 9:32am

Everytime i see the new home kit, i think of Pyjamas!!!
Awful.
Away kit is just as bad.

Maybe Rice seen the kits and thought "right, i'm off"

L'prof · 11-05-2012 10:01am

The away kit is brilliant!

Colonialboy · 11-05-2012 10:09am

Pre-Season training is cancelled at Arsenal.
Instead bring in all the mid-fielders and forwards (except RVP and Arteta) and make them watch the two recent clips posted of Bergkamp and Pires.

Sublime goals, sublime touches, create one yard of space, head up, pick your spot and bang .... job done... turn to the camera and smile cos this is why you love the game since you were 9 years old....

currently the Arsenal goals are all huff and puff.
Obviously we were spoilt with those world class players.

Check the FA rule book there is no law that says you cannot shoot from outside the 18 yard box. Could Walcott actually reach the goal line and keep it between the posts if he shot from 20 yards. I thought Chamakh had a shot on him. In fairness every defense in the country knows to let Arsenal have the ball 25 yards out, stand off but you dont have to close down copletely cos the Arsenal attacker isnt going to shoot.
I reckon theres an correlation.... the less goals we scored from outside the 18 yard box .. the less matches we won each season.
Sometimes as a player in every match you just want to have one long range effort, just to get it out of your system ..

Redzer7 · 11-05-2012 10:13am

Reports from Twitter are linking us with Kagawa.
It's only Twitter though so probably not any truth in it.

gosplan · 11-05-2012 11:46am

Really don't get how people figure that replacing Rice will solve our defensive problems. In reality, we know nothing of Rice's influence.

Also interesting point made on the Tim Stillman column on Arseblog that might be of merit given the recent discussion of Song and Gibbs here recently.

Tim Stillman @ arseblog.com wrote:

A fortnight ago I wrote about my disgust that Yossi Benayoun managed to outpace all of his teammates in an attempt to track back and prevent Wigan’s first goal. Norwich’s second goal on Saturday gave me even greater cause to flabber my gast. From my seat I was ideally positioned to see Kieran Gibbs directly beneath me yelling himself hoarse at Alex Song to plug the gap left by Vermaelen’s wander up field. Right in front of my face, I looked on with disbelief as Song turned, acknowledged his junior team mate’s instruction, then just ignored him.

Needless to say, when Norwich broke successfully, Song, Ramsey and Vermaelen were all barely above jogging pace as Grant Holt exposed Gibbs – by now covering three positions all by himself – to score. Song may have felt he found redemption by providing another through ball for van Persie for the equaliser. But I made that his 5th attempted through ball of the afternoon, the previous four having often been wayward with better, simpler options available. It’s fair to say he didn’t cover himself in glory for Norwich’s third goal either.

I don’t want to make this seem like a personal vendetta against Song. I think he’s a tremendously talented player and potentially one of the better rounded midfielders in the league. But he looks like a young man that’s forgetting himself at the moment. His through balls have been a valuable weapon this season and, as I’ve said many times before, there needn’t be an identity crisis about his position in the team because he doesn’t fit a stereotypical mould.

meriwether · 11-05-2012 1:25pm

What we have in Song is a hybrid attacking midfielder/defensive midfielder, when in fact we need an actual DM and AM.

greendom · 11-05-2012 2:49pm

I think the loss of Arteta has highlighted Song's weaknesses in recent games. Arteta's clever positioning and link up play could cover (to a degree) when Song wondered away from his main defensive duties.

HazDanz · 11-05-2012 3:27pm

greendom wrote: »

I think the loss of Arteta has highlighted Song's weaknesses in recent games. Arteta's clever positioning and link up play could cover (to a degree) when Song wondered away from his main defensive duties.

Arteta was the glue of the team keeping things tipping along, fantastic at it, so much so people didn't realise his value until he goes missing for a period. Song has been like a child on skittles and coke since Arteta got injured. He should be more present in DM role now without Arteta but he manages to go forward even more with him gone!

ImpossibleDuck · 11-05-2012 4:12pm

I don't think Song is a bad player, his concentration and positional awareness most certainly need work over the summer though.

ImpossibleDuck · 11-05-2012 4:23pm

Szczesny apparently doubtful for Sunday.

Well...fuck.

Don't trust Flappyhandski or Almunia at all

meriwether · 11-05-2012 4:50pm

ImpossibleDuck wrote: »

Szczesny apparently doubtful for Sunday.

Well...fuck.

Don't trust Flappyhandski or Almunia at all

Double ****.

gnfnrhead · 11-05-2012 5:25pm

I'd be tempted to throw Martinez in (assuming he's back from loan) ahead of those two, but it'll almost definitly be Fabianski.

cson · 11-05-2012 5:29pm

Woj hasn't been without fault this season either.

I think he'd benefit from someone like Mad Jens or The Ponytail coaching him.

ImpossibleDuck · 11-05-2012 8:30pm

cson wrote: »

Woj hasn't been without fault this season either.

I think he'd benefit from someone like Mad Jens or The Ponytail coaching him.

Definitely but it's worth noting he's only turned 22, which in terms of goalkeeping is exceptionally young to be the #1 at a club like Arsenal (and his National team).

Most of his faults (apart from the Norwich game) can be attributed to his youth, inexperience and over-confidence. He'll grow out of that youthful foolishness soon enough.

G1032 · 11-05-2012 9:31pm

cson wrote: »

Woj hasn't been without fault this season either.

I think he'd benefit from someone like Mad Jens or The Ponytail coaching him.

He hasn't been without fault but who has?
What was more costly against Norwich.....Woj's mistakes or the misses from van Persie and Ramsey? The pass from Song that led to Norwichs 3rd goal?

Everyone highlights even the slightest mistake from a keeper but RVP seems immune to criticism. I heard nobody criticize outfield players for missing chances.
If the forwards put away all the chances they had woj's mistakes wouldn't matter so much.

I guess all i'm saying is that Woj's mistakes in goal are no worse than forwards missing seemingly unmissable chances.

gnfnrhead · 11-05-2012 9:33pm

G1032 wrote: »

He hasn't been without fault but who has?
What was more costly against Norwich.....Woj's mistakes or the misses from van Persie and Ramsey? The pass from Song that led to Norwichs 3rd goal?

Everyone highlights even the slightest mistake from a keeper but RVP seems immune to criticism. I heard nobody criticize outfield players for missing chances.
If the forwards put away all the chances they had woj's mistakes wouldn't matter so much.

I guess all i'm saying is that Woj's mistakes in goal are no worse than forwards missing seemingly unmissable chances.

Thats the difference between a goalkeeper and a striker. A keeper can make nine brilliant saves and one mistake to be the villian. A striker can miss nine sitters and score one to be a hero.

HazDanz · 12-05-2012 1:20am

gnfnrhead wrote: »

Thats the difference between a goalkeeper and a striker. A keeper can make nine brilliant saves and one mistake to be the villian. A striker can miss nine sitters and score one to be a hero.

Similar with defenders who can score goals frequently. Could be a bit dodge in defence but a decent goal every now and then covers the real dirt up.

efb · 12-05-2012 1:22am

HazDanz wrote: »

Similar with defenders who can score goals frequently. Could be a bit dodge in defence but a decent goal every now and then covers the real dirt up.

That wouldn't be aimed at anyone on TV would it?

tayto lover · 12-05-2012 2:04am

gnfnrhead wrote: »

Thats the difference between a goalkeeper and a striker. A keeper can make nine brilliant saves and one mistake to be the villian. A striker can miss nine sitters and score one to be a hero.

A goalkeeper's mistakes are usually far more obvious than a strikers. Czez's effort at stopping the first Norwich goal looked bad but his failure to come out and cut off the third one was just as obvious if you are a regular football observer. A striker can have a glaring miss but he can have many excuses like being pushed or have his jersey pulled even if it doesn't look obvious. We saw a video of Bergkamph's goals and he was brilliant in a one to one situation if compared to the likes of Walcott or Gervinho.

Redzer7 · 12-05-2012 2:53pm

Twitter: A lot of people on twitter saying that Inter have pulled out of the race to sign M'Vila as he's already agreed to join Arsenal and that the deal will be announced tomorrow after the West Brom game. Freddie Boswell (Football scout and Inter fan) says it too.

Tis only twitter though just thought I'd keep the M'Vila talk going :pac:.

greendom · 12-05-2012 3:00pm

Arsene seems to be saying that we'll be spending very little this season. Certainly nothing if we can't get rid of some squad players first...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/may/11/arsenal-arsene-wenger-transfer-austerity?newsfeed=true

tayto lover · 12-05-2012 3:15pm

Redzer7 wrote: »

Twitter: A lot of people on twitter saying that Inter have pulled out of the race to sign M'Vila as he's already agreed to join Arsenal and that the deal will be announced tomorrow after the West Brom game. Freddie Boswell (Football scout and Inter fan) says it too.

Tis only twitter though just thought I'd keep the M'Vila talk going :pac:.

It probably depends on CL qualification so that would explain the tight lips.
I am very nervous about tomorrow for some reason and fearful we will only get a draw and have the big wait for the CL Final. Please God Almighty One don't do that to us.

ImpossibleDuck · 12-05-2012 3:18pm

tayto lover wrote: »

It probably depends on CL qualification so that would explain the tight lips.
I am very nervous about tomorrow for some reason and fearful we will only get a draw and have the big wait for the CL Final. Please God Almighty One don't do that to us.

If reports are to be believed (:rolleyes:) his joining isn't dependent on CL qualification but rather his wage is.

amiable · 12-05-2012 3:35pm

Redzer7 wrote: »

Twitter: A lot of people on twitter saying that Inter have pulled out of the race to sign M'Vila as he's already agreed to join Arsenal and that the deal will be announced tomorrow after the West Brom game. Freddie Boswell (Football scout and Inter fan) says it too.

Tis only twitter though just thought I'd keep the M'Vila talk going :pac:.

And L'Equipe say Inter are favourites to sign him

G1032 · 12-05-2012 3:37pm

tayto lover wrote: »

Redzer7 wrote: »

Twitter: A lot of people on twitter saying that Inter have pulled out of the race to sign M'Vila as he's already agreed to join Arsenal and that the deal will be announced tomorrow after the West Brom game. Freddie Boswell (Football scout and Inter fan) says it too.

Tis only twitter though just thought I'd keep the M'Vila talk going :pac:.

It probably depends on CL qualification so that would explain the tight lips.
I am very nervous about tomorrow for some reason and fearful we will only get a draw and have the big wait for the CL Final. Please God Almighty One don't do that to us.

Nah. We'll fall a goal behind and then win either 2-1 or 3-1

Arsenal Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2011/2012

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