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garda reseve powers on and off duty

  • 28-10-2013 10:33pm
    #1
    coolock94
    Closed Accounts Posts: 150 ✭✭


    just a question I would like to know, I have sent off the BR form and am awaiting reply from them. just wanted to know if I would be able to intervene in a crime being committed while off duty and present myself as a garda.
    also can they wear their uniform walking home or too the station, the main reason I ask this is because during the interview I was asked how I would feel having to walk to my home wearing the uniform. I know a garda and he wears his home but he is full time.
    I would imagine if u are not allowed walk the streets on ur own on duty why would u be allowed walk home in uniform on ur own off duty.
    cheers lads .
    Tagged:


Comments

  • #2
    3fullback
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 825 ✭✭✭3fullback


    coolock94 wrote: »
    just a question I would like to know, I have sent off the BR form and am awaiting reply from them. just wanted to know if I would be able to intervene in a crime being committed while off duty and present myself as a garda.
    also can they wear their uniform walking home or too the station, the main reason I ask this is because during the interview I was asked how I would feel having to walk to my home wearing the uniform. I know a garda and he wears his home but he is full time.
    I would imagine if u are not allowed walk the streets on ur own on duty why would u be allowed walk home in uniform on ur own off duty.
    cheers lads .


    No no no


  • #3
    coolock94
    Closed Accounts Posts: 150 ✭✭coolock94


    alri but I asked the last question cause it was asked in interview how I would feel walkin home in the uniform.. silly thing to ask if its not going to happen .


  • #4
    WilcoOut
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,778 ✭✭✭WilcoOut


    coolock94 wrote: »
    alri but I asked the last question cause it was asked in interview how I would feel walkin home in the uniform.. silly thing to ask if its not going to happen .

    They basically want to establish whether you are willing to put yourself into a situation where ur friends and neighbours may change their opinion of you as u are a member of the police force and how comfortable u are with this

    what answer did u give?


  • #5
    coolock94
    Closed Accounts Posts: 150 ✭✭coolock94


    I first said I would get changed in the station into me normal clothes but he said but if u had no choice and I said well it wouldn't bother me,, I wouldn't because of the area I live in,, id be burnt out of me house if they new I was a garda.


  • #6
    Raider190
    Site Banned Posts: 819 ✭✭✭Raider190


    "just a question I would like to know, I have sent off the BR form and am awaiting reply from them. just wanted to know if I would be able to intervene in a crime being committed while off duty and present myself as a garda".

    This is a situation which has raised a lot of difficulties for some GR's. When you are off duty you have no policing powers. As Irish citizens we all have the ability to make a citizens arrest (Sec 4 Criminal Law Act) which basically allows you to hold an individual who has committed an offence and hand him to the Gardai when they arrive. Remember GR's are members of An Garda Siochana who hold the rank of Reserve Gardai so to present yourself as a Garda may lead you into troubled waters. My advice is to think before you act.


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  • #7
    coolock94
    Closed Accounts Posts: 150 ✭✭coolock94


    yeah id agree,, its ridiculous to think I hold a rank in the garda but am not allowed class myself a guard,, but I don't mind I just want to help people so that's my main reason for signing up .


  • #8
    Boaty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 615 ✭✭✭Boaty


    There was a reserve garda standing in the middle of junction in my town a while back, sending cars through red lights, for no reason at all, I think he landed himself in hot water.


  • #9
    coolock94
    Closed Accounts Posts: 150 ✭✭coolock94


    not surprised that's ridiculous thing to do.


  • #10
    Raider190
    Site Banned Posts: 819 ✭✭✭Raider190


    Boaty wrote: »
    There was a reserve garda standing in the middle of junction in my town a while back, sending cars through red lights, for no reason at all, I think he landed himself in hot water.

    Was he is uniform if so then he was on duty and if so he does have the power under the Road Traffic Act to direct traffic


  • #11
    Boaty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 615 ✭✭✭Boaty


    Raider190 wrote: »
    Was he is uniform if so then he was on duty and if so he does have the power under the Road Traffic Act to direct traffic
    He was in uniform, there was no need for him to be there, as the lights were in operation, he was just trying to show his authority which is not much.


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  • #12
    Raider190
    Site Banned Posts: 819 ✭✭✭Raider190


    Boaty wrote: »
    He was in uniform, there was no need for him to be there, as the lights were in operation, he was just trying to show his authority which is not much.

    What a foolish comment......He was there because he was directed by his Sgt to be there. Think of the bigger picture . Do you know what was going on .I suspect not....Its not about power its about doing a good job


  • #13
    Boaty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 615 ✭✭✭Boaty


    Raider190 wrote: »
    What a foolish comment......He was there because he was directed by his Sgt to be there. Think of the bigger picture . Do you know what was going on .I suspect not....Its not about power its about doing a good job
    I should have included that was the view of the sgt.


  • #14
    Raider190
    Site Banned Posts: 819 ✭✭✭Raider190


    coolock94 wrote: »
    yeah id agree,, its ridiculous to think I hold a rank in the garda but am not allowed class myself a guard,, but I don't mind I just want to help people so that's my main reason for signing up .

    Need to rethink this attitude , we are members and within the Gardai rank is an important ethos. What matters is doing the job as well as you can .Focus on that and leave the ego stuff aside


  • #15
    Raider190
    Site Banned Posts: 819 ✭✭✭Raider190


    Boaty wrote: »
    I should have included that was the view of the sgt.

    What a crock ...Dont think a Sgt would express his opinions to A CIVILIAN


  • #16
    Cd_doe
    Closed Accounts Posts: 131 ✭✭Cd_doe


    Raider190 wrote: »
    Was he is uniform if so then he was on duty and if so he does have the power under the Road Traffic Act to direct traffic

    The main question is, was there a full time person minding him?

    If so it probably was an official thing with good reason. If not he was probably taking it upon himself....


  • #17
    Raider190
    Site Banned Posts: 819 ✭✭✭Raider190


    Cd_doe wrote: »
    The main question is, was there a full time person minding him?

    If so it probably was an official thing with good reason. If not he was probably taking it upon himself....

    Not always the case sometimes it the reserve doing the minding. Remember a number of reserves are qualified and more life experienced that their full time younger colleagues. Policing is 99_% common sense and 1% legal. The ability to communicate with general public is a critical part of police work and many reserves are at the top of their game. They work in various roles in their professional lives with responsibilities far beyond those of a regular Garda so the concept that
    he Garda reserve is comprised of adults who need to be minded as you put it is both insulting and obviously ill informed


  • #18
    coolock94
    Closed Accounts Posts: 150 ✭✭coolock94


    Raider190 wrote: »
    Need to rethink this attitude , we are members and within the Gardai rank is an important ethos. What matters is doing the job as well as you can .Focus on that and leave the ego stuff aside

    No I'd agree suppose where just there as there support .


  • #19
    Cd_doe
    Closed Accounts Posts: 131 ✭✭Cd_doe


    Raider190 wrote: »
    Not always the case sometimes it the reserve doing the minding. Remember a number of reserves are qualified and more life experienced that their full time younger colleagues. Policing is 99_% common sense and 1% legal. The ability to communicate with general public is a critical part of police work and many reserves are at the top of their game. They work in various roles in their professional lives with responsibilities far beyond those of a regular Garda so the concept that
    he Garda reserve is comprised of adults who need to be minded as you put it is both insulting and obviously ill informed


    O ffs...

    I suppose to be more politically correct I should have said accompany them rather than mind.

    But technically speaking, what do you think is the main reason they must be "accompanied" by a real guard?

    Now to go back on topic. OP, if your station has facilities that allow you to change, your far better off changing before you go.


  • #20
    gctest50
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,605 ✭✭✭gctest50


    Raider190 wrote: »
    Not always the case sometimes it the reserve doing the minding. Remember a number of reserves are qualified and more life experienced that their full time younger colleagues. Policing is 99_% common sense and 1% legal. The ability to communicate with general public is a critical part of police work and many reserves are at the top of their game. They work in various roles in their professional lives with responsibilities far beyond those of a regular Garda so the concept that
    he Garda reserve is comprised of adults who need to be minded as you put it is both insulting and obviously ill informed
    .
    coolock94 wrote: »
    No I'd agree suppose where just there as there support .


  • #21
    coolock94
    Closed Accounts Posts: 150 ✭✭coolock94


    but can I walk home in uniform ???


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  • #22
    King Ludvig
    Closed Accounts Posts: 640 ✭✭✭King Ludvig


    No.


  • #23
    Raider190
    Site Banned Posts: 819 ✭✭✭Raider190


    Cd_doe wrote: »
    O ffs...

    I suppose to be more politically correct I should have said accompany them rather than mind.

    But technically speaking, what do you think is the main reason they must be "accompanied" by a real guard?

    Ask yourself this question when did you ever see a guard out on their own. It is standard operating procedure in all police forces throughout the world to have officers work in pairs in order to minimise the risk to both officers. So the question you ask really a mute point. Would you walk around the inner city,, Finglas, blanchardstiwn, coolock on your own I think not. You prefer to make snide remarks and belittle 1300 men and women who instead of sitting on their backsides volunteer their time and put on a uniform and stab vest to put themselves in harm's way in order to ensure that good honest people can go about their lives without been harmed.......so think on and the next time you see a Garda reserve out on patrol with a "real guard" you thank them for
    their


  • #24
    Cd_doe
    Closed Accounts Posts: 131 ✭✭Cd_doe


    Raider190 wrote: »
    Cd_doe wrote: »
    O ffs...

    I suppose to be more politically correct I should have said accompany them rather than mind.

    But technically speaking, what do you think is the main reason they must be "accompanied" by a real guard?

    Ask yourself this question when did you ever see a guard out on their own. It is standard operating procedure in all police forces throughout the world to have officers work in pairs in order to minimise the risk to both officers. So the question you ask really a mute point. Would you walk around the inner city,, Finglas, blanchardstiwn, coolock on your own I think not. You prefer to make snide remarks and belittle 1300 men and women who instead of sitting on their backsides volunteer their time and put on a uniform and stab vest to put themselves in harm's way in order to ensure that good honest people can go about their lives without been harmed.......so think on and the next time you see a Garda reserve out on patrol with a "real guard" you thank them for
    their

    Guards are often out on their own tho? It's not ideal but it does happen...
    have you not heard of one man stations??
    I honestly don't know where you get your information. But it's fairly bad


  • #25
    Cd_doe
    Closed Accounts Posts: 131 ✭✭Cd_doe


    You're overreacting. Afaik reserve guards are not allowed out on their on own and must be accompanied?


  • #26
    msg11
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,572 ✭✭✭msg11


    Cd_doe wrote: »
    You're overreacting. Afaik reserve guards are not allowed out on their on own and must be accompanied?

    Section 15 sets out that us Reserve members are members of AGS and have the same powers etc.. while on duty. But in the same section it also gives the commissioner the power to set out what powers we can use and what duties we can perform aswell as what conditions these duties must be performed under. A condition for foot-patrol and general tours is that we must be supervised by a member of the full time service.

    I don't see any problem with this, but I have heard myths of Reserves on the beat by themselves. But it is noted if they mess up out there on there own they will be exactly that on there own.

    In the station I am in it is regular that full timers would do the beat on there own.

    As for incidents off duty, been a member of the reserves is not much use as the only power is CLA 1997 section 4 (1) or (2) and it has to be an arrestable offence ; “arrestable offence” means an offence for which a person of full capacity and not previously convicted may, under or by virtue of any enactment, be punished by imprisonment for a term of five years or by a more severe penalty and includes an attempt to commit any such offence; so you can't just lift someone for any offence it has to be one that carries jail time of 5 years or more. Thief would be one but certain assaults are not.

    I suppose you could use section 4 (3) off duty as Reserve members are members of AGS and the act dose not give a base 'rank', IE , a member of An Garda Siochana holding the rank of Garda or higher. But not 100% on that.

    Even at that use the head, sum up how serious the incident is, how long will it take for someone to arrive, how serious the treat to life is, how serious the risk to yourself is. Full time members are fully trained us Reserve members are not so we might think we are helping in a situation but we could make the situation a hell of alot worse.


  • #27
    Scouser
    Registered Users Posts: 883 ✭✭✭Scouser


    Cd_doe wrote: »
    You're overreacting. Afaik reserve guards are not allowed out on their on own and must be accompanied?

    correct

    this was a request from the GRA

    the GRA feared that reserves would be used to replace fulltime members

    they demanded that all Reserve members be accompanied. thus ensuring that fulltimers would be kept

    its not a question of 'minding' - thats just a way of demeaning reserve members at the expense of saving the blushes of a scared and reactionary representative association


  • #28
    Raider190
    Site Banned Posts: 819 ✭✭✭Raider190


    Cd_doe wrote: »
    Raider190 wrote: »

    Guards are often out on their own tho? It's not ideal but it does happen...
    have you not heard of one man stations??
    I honestly don't know where you get your information. But it's fairly bad

    My information is gained from my experience and my service. One man stations are a thing of the past. I say again and perhaps this time you might listen
    Gardai do not patrol on their own and armchair generals should not make comments in topics they know nothing about.


  • #29
    3fullback
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 825 ✭✭✭3fullback


    Raider190 wrote: »
    Cd_doe wrote: »

    My information is gained from my experience and my service. One man stations are a thing of the past. I say again and perhaps this time you might listen
    Gardai do not patrol on their own and armchair generals should not make comments in topics they know nothing about.

    Gardai do patrol on there own on occasion.


  • #30
    Raider190
    Site Banned Posts: 819 ✭✭✭Raider190


    3fullback wrote: »
    Raider190 wrote: »

    Gardai do patrol on there own on occasion.

    As I have stated before not in high crime areas within Dublin. would you put yourself at risk I don't think so. Comment on matters you are qualified to speak about and not what you get from the net or the papers


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  • #31
    3fullback
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 825 ✭✭✭3fullback


    That's fine, if that's what you believe.


  • #32
    Cd_doe
    Closed Accounts Posts: 131 ✭✭Cd_doe


    Raider190 wrote: »

    My information is gained from my experience and my service. One man stations are a thing of the past. I say again and perhaps this time you might listen
    Gardai do not patrol on their own and armchair generals should not make comments in topics they know nothing about.

    I'm sorry but you have no idea what your talking about.

    Gardai still do patrol on their on.

    Edit : and no, one man stations are not a thing of the past.


  • #33
    Turner
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,935 Mod ✭✭✭✭Turner


    Raider190 wrote: »
    Cd_doe wrote: »

    My information is gained from my experience and my service. One man stations are a thing of the past. I say again and perhaps this time you might listen
    Gardai do not patrol on their own and armchair generals should not make comments in topics they know nothing about.

    Gardai regularly patrol on their own... I should know I am one.

    In high crime areas in Dublin and other major cities is is the norm that patrol cars are manned by two members.

    Around the country it is quite common for Gardai to patrol alone, its got nothing to do with them working in low crime areas, its got to do with numbers available and lack of members.


  • #34
    3fullback
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 825 ✭✭✭3fullback


    Cd_doe wrote: »
    I'm sorry but you have no idea what your talking about.

    Gardai still do patrol on their on.

    Edit : and no, one man stations are not a thing of the past.

    Example of one is on inis mor (Aran Island)


  • #35
    Cd_doe
    Closed Accounts Posts: 131 ✭✭Cd_doe


    Turner wrote: »
    Raider190 wrote: »

    Gardai regularly patrol on their own... I should know I am one.

    In high crime areas in Dublin and other major cities is is the norm that patrol cars are manned by two members.

    Around the country it is quite common for Gardai to patrol alone, its got nothing to do with them working in low crime areas, its got to do with numbers available and lack of members.

    That quote looks like it was me that said it!
    Hmmm the quoting system is broken.
    Now it looks like raider 190 said that


  • #36
    Raider190
    Site Banned Posts: 819 ✭✭✭Raider190


    Turner wrote: »
    Raider190 wrote: »

    Gardai regularly patrol on their own... I should know I am one.

    In high crime areas in Dublin and other major cities is is the norm that patrol cars are manned by two members.

    Around the country it is quite common for Gardai to patrol alone, its got nothing to do with them working in low crime areas, its got to do with numbers available and lack of members.


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  • #37
    Raider190
    Site Banned Posts: 819 ✭✭✭Raider190


    Raider190 wrote: »
    Turner wrote: »

    I am a reserve in one of the busiest stations in the country and at no time in the past 6 years have I ever seen a lone member been detailed to foot patrol on their own . It never happens. nothing to do with lack of numbers it a question of safety


  • #38
    Cd_doe
    Closed Accounts Posts: 131 ✭✭Cd_doe


    Raider190 wrote: »
    Raider190 wrote: »

    I am a reserve in one of the busiest stations in the country and at no time in the past 6 years have I ever seen a lone member been detailed to foot patrol on their own . It never happens. nothing to do with lack of numbers it a question of safety

    You have only seen one station.
    I can assure you it is quite common everywhere.


  • #39
    Tyron Jara
    Closed Accounts Posts: 265 ✭✭Tyron Jara


    Raider190 wrote: »
    Raider190 wrote: »

    I am a reserve in one of the busiest stations in the country and at no time in the past 6 years have I ever seen a lone member been detailed to foot patrol on their own . It never happens. nothing to do with lack of numbers it a question of safety
    Raider if thats true thats your station. One station of hundreds!!! Any city you walk in youd see a lone garda or worse a lone garda in the patrol car


  • #40
    Raider190
    Site Banned Posts: 819 ✭✭✭Raider190


    Cd_doe wrote: »
    Raider190 wrote: »

    You have only seen one station.
    I can assure you it is quite common everywhere.

    I have served in a number of stations and have never seen it. Perhaps it's particular to Dublin city stations. From my point of view I would never patrol alone on foot why put your self at risk


  • #41
    msg11
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,572 ✭✭✭msg11


    Raider190 wrote: »
    I have served in a number of stations and have never seen it. Perhaps it's particular to Dublin city stations. From my point of view I would never patrol alone on foot why put your self at risk

    Quite common where I am.

    Personally, I think it's quite dangerous and someone is going to get seriously hurt before it changes.

    Professionally, you just do as your told.


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  • #42
    Scouser
    Registered Users Posts: 883 ✭✭✭Scouser


    Raider190 wrote: »
    Cd_doe wrote: »

    I have served in a number of stations and have never seen it. Perhaps it's particular to Dublin city stations. From my point of view I would never patrol alone on foot why put your self at risk

    very very rare in my patch

    iv never seen a one man car crew, ever

    on nights out in dublin city iv often seen lads from kevin st and pearse st walk round in threes!!!


  • #43
    Raider190
    Site Banned Posts: 819 ✭✭✭Raider190


    Scouser wrote: »
    Raider190 wrote: »

    very very rare in my patch

    iv never seen a one man car crew, ever

    on nights out in dublin city iv often seen lads from kevin st and pearse st walk round in threes!!!

    Same here never come across a solo garda either on foot or mobile patrol


  • #44
    northside girl
    Registered Users Posts: 113 ✭✭northside girl


    Raider190 wrote: »
    Raider190 wrote: »

    I am a reserve in one of the busiest stations in the country and at no time in the past 6 years have I ever seen a lone member been detailed to foot patrol on their own . It never happens. nothing to do with lack of numbers it a question of safety

    Like Turner I am also a full time member and am stationed in the DMR in what could be considered quite a rough area and we are regularly detailed for beat duty on our own. In fact, during the early tour midweek crossover with late tours anybody who is not detailed for mobile patrol or the station are not only told to go on the beat but to do it alone. Safety comes second to having uniforms on the streets. Nighttime is a different story but I know plenty of other districts outside of my own that operate a similar policy so to say that Garda members never patrol on their own is incredibly naive and very wrong. And to the OP, are you talking about wearing your uniform home for duty or walking home in half blue?


  • #45
    Raider190
    Site Banned Posts: 819 ✭✭✭Raider190


    It's obviously different rules in different stations thank god I am in a station that details pairs for patrols.


  • #46
    coolock94
    Closed Accounts Posts: 150 ✭✭coolock94


    thanks for your input,, I mean half blues I believe members who are full time do it but it was a question which came up in interview.
    so it was asked if I would walk home in uniform or not when finished my shift... so I wanted to know if reserves are allowed to walk home in uniform.


  • #47
    Raider190
    Site Banned Posts: 819 ✭✭✭Raider190


    No member goes home in full uniform have blues are acceptable that means Garda pants but with a civilIan jacket


  • #48
    Scouser
    Registered Users Posts: 883 ✭✭✭Scouser


    Raider190 wrote: »
    No member goes home in full uniform have blues are acceptable that means Garda pants but with a civilIan jacket

    wasnt there an urban legend about a mule in town roller blading to work in full uniform?


  • #49
    coolock94
    Closed Accounts Posts: 150 ✭✭coolock94


    i no a super who says he goes to and from in uniform no problem he said


  • #50
    Cd_doe
    Closed Accounts Posts: 131 ✭✭Cd_doe


    coolock94 wrote: »
    i no a super who says he goes to and from in uniform no problem he said

    Ya. There's a slight difference between a super and a reserve


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