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Are things looking up?

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    #32
    PhlegmyMoses
    Registered Users Posts: 11,906 ✭✭✭✭PhlegmyMoses


    Things will probably get better for those who can afford to stick it out. The sheer number of young people emigrating is what prevents our unemployment rates from looking much worse. If those people had stuck around, 200 jobs here and there would be a drop in the ocean.


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    #33
    Toby Take a Bow
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,732 ✭✭✭Toby Take a Bow


    Are we not at the highest level of unemployment since the crash? And emigration is still pretty high, right? And the housing market is yet to reach bottom (or at least most economists seem to be of this opinion)? And then we've another 'harsh' budget where they'll be taking further billions out of our economy (because austerity has clearly been working for the last couple of years).

    Based on all this, I think we've a way to go before we turn the corner, and other such meaningless cliches.


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    #34
    666irishguy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 469 ✭✭666irishguy


    swimming in a sea wrote: »
    I came from a month out of the country in the same month November 2009 and got the bus from Dublin Airport to Galway. It so depressing, I had missed the express bus so got one that went through all the small towns, I was one of five passengers who left Dublin. Now I was suffering post holiday blues but also I had just missed the big floods and every town we went through was deserted and ravaged by the floods, the worst was Ballinasloe with no inhabitants and sandbags all over the place, it looked post apocalyptic.

    I think around that time people were over all depressed and worried about an all out collapse, that their savings may have disappeared. Now people are less worried as they know there won't be one big bang collapse it will be just drip drip. Quantitative Easing, goverment bonds will just gradually inflate our savings away:(

    I think that time must have been the bleakest memories I will have of this whole mass. As for the drip, well it's easier to stop/deal with a dripping tap than deal with the mains exploding at once.


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    #35
    Tom Cruises Left Nut
    Registered Users Posts: 9,010 ✭✭✭Tom Cruises Left Nut


    The main problem is the default Irish setting of "oh god its terrible" and the media with "WE ARE DOOMED"

    If people who have money, and it is true that a lot of people are no worse off these days, went out and spent it then this would in turn cause new jobs

    So yeah, its the fault of all the moaning oul ones :pac:


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    #36
    buck65
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,969 ✭✭✭buck65


    Expect no improvement til 2016. But things will improve.


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    #37
    eth0
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,635 ✭✭✭eth0


    As a pessimist I keep misreading the title of the thread as "Are things fooking up?"


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    #38
    ejmaztec
    Registered Users Posts: 23,982 ✭✭✭✭ejmaztec


    t|nt|n wrote: »
    The main problem is the default Irish setting of "oh god its terrible" and the media with "WE ARE DOOMED"

    If people who have money, and it is true that a lot of people are no worse off these days, went out and spent it then this would in turn cause new jobs

    So yeah, its the fault of all the moaning oul ones :pac:

    I think most of the people with money are hanging onto it, because their doom mechanism is telling them that once they spend it, it'll be gone forever, never to be replaced.:(


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    #39
    bbam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,410 ✭✭✭bbam


    Just on the news on the radio so I don't have a link.
    Overall unemployment still rising.
    Number of long term unemployed rising steady.
    That and;
    Fuel and other essentials still rising in price and seen as a one way only path.
    Facing into an ongoing series of cuts in the next number of budgets.
    Farming which was heralded as a major industry to support the export led recovery has just had a disastrous season where many farms will loose money for the year.

    Things are not looking up, things are looking bleaker than ever.

    Top that with a weak self serving government and it doesn't paint a nice future at all.
    I have commitments I can't walk away from, otherwise I'd be on the plane, as would any saine rational person with a skill that can be exported.


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    #40
    Tom Cruises Left Nut
    Registered Users Posts: 9,010 ✭✭✭Tom Cruises Left Nut


    ejmaztec wrote: »
    I think most of the people with money are hanging onto it, because their doom mechanism is telling them that once they spend it, it'll be gone forever, never to be replaced.:(

    You can't take it with you I say :)


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    #41
    Gurgle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,064 ✭✭✭Gurgle


    JohnMarston wrote: »
    There's plenty of jobs, provided you have the relevent qualifications and the required experience
    300 Jobs in EA, whats the betting they have to recruit outside the country for people with a 2nd language?

    Learning a language is something you can do at home and at no cost beyond an internet connection. 4 years into the recession, and how many former construction workers have done anything to improve their job prospects?


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    #42
    admiralofthefleet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15,515 ✭✭✭✭admiralofthefleet


    buck65 wrote: »
    Expect no improvement til 2016. But things will improve.

    at the start i guessed late 2013 will see a pick up. im hope im not wrong


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    #43
    Tommy Dillon
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 216 ✭✭Tommy Dillon


    admiralofthefleet wrote: »
    buck65 wrote: »
    Expect no improvement til 2016. But things will improve.

    at the start i guessed late 2013 will see a pick up. im hope im not wrong

    Why 2013 if you don't mind me asking?


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    #44
    bamboozle
    Registered Users Posts: 3,699 ✭✭✭bamboozle


    bbam wrote: »
    Just on the news on the radio so I don't have a link.
    Overall unemployment still rising.
    Number of long term unemployed rising steady.
    That and;
    Fuel and other essentials still rising in price and seen as a one way only path.
    Facing into an ongoing series of cuts in the next number of budgets.
    Farming which was heralded as a major industry to support the export led recovery has just had a disastrous season where many farms will loose money for the year.

    Things are not looking up, things are looking bleaker than ever.

    Top that with a weak self serving government and it doesn't paint a nice future at all.
    I have commitments I can't walk away from, otherwise I'd be on the plane, as would any saine rational person with a skill that can be exported.

    you know how to paint a pretty picture!!!!

    there are jobs out there and companies with roles to fill, especially in IT, unfortunately in some cases it appears to be difficult to persuade candidates to give up their social welfare entitlements to take these roles.


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    #45
    paikea
    Registered Users Posts: 83 ✭✭paikea


    Chazz Michael Michaels wrote: »
    Definitely no change.

    http://www.google.ie/publicdata/explore?ds=z8o7pt6rd5uqa6_&ctype=l&strail=false&bcs=d&nselm=h&met_y=unemployment_rate&fdim_y=seasonality:sa&scale_y=lin&ind_y=false&rdim=country_group&idim=country:ie&ifdim=country_group&tstart=1195430400000&tend=1342652400000&hl=en&dl=en&ind=false&q=unemployment+ireland

    How do you want to feel today?

    "Things are not that bad" - click on Spain

    "I want my mommy!!!" - click on Sweden

    :D


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    #46
    PhlegmyMoses
    Registered Users Posts: 11,906 ✭✭✭✭PhlegmyMoses


    Gurgle wrote: »
    300 Jobs in EA, whats the betting they have to recruit outside the country for people with a 2nd language?

    Learning a language is something you can do at home and at no cost beyond an internet connection. 4 years into the recession, and how many former construction workers have done anything to improve their job prospects?

    Learning a language to a high enough level to function within a business environment is not as simple as downloading a few Michel Thomas audiobooks and Skyping a few Spaniards.

    To suggest that construction workers should simply do this, many of whom left school precisely due to their natural affinity towards other kinds of learning and work, is disingenuous.


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    #47
    bbam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,410 ✭✭✭bbam


    bamboozle wrote: »
    you know how to paint a pretty picture!!!!

    there are jobs out there and companies with roles to fill, especially in IT, unfortunately in some cases it appears to be difficult to persuade candidates to give up their social welfare entitlements to take these roles.

    Yes I know there are some jobs out there if you have qualifications and experience... I changed jobs myself within the last year.

    However if you happen to be 30 or under the prospects are indeed bleek.. the government can sugar coat it how they like but with unemployment growing and growing I'd say they are failing on their promises..

    Reskilling is the only avenue for lots of people.. however this needs to be fully understood.. The likes of EA games aren't looking for forty something year old unemployed plasterers who have done a 9 month introduction to computers with FAS.. Reskilling to a decent standard takes 3-4 years of fulltime education.. thats a hard sell to a person with a few kids and a mortgage to service..

    So the truth seems that if you have a decent Qualification, preferably in IT, experience, a second language and live in Dublin, Cork or Galway then yes things may seem a litle better.. But that leaves a whole swathe of people for whom the days are getting darker and darker, they feel forgotten and ignored.

    Rural Ireland in general is moving backwards.. i see myself towns where the unemployment, expectations and attitudes are as bad as it was in the 80's with little hope... It won't take too long until it's like the 50's


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    #48
    aidan24326
    Registered Users Posts: 5,925 ✭✭✭aidan24326


    JohnMarston wrote: »
    There's plenty of jobs, provided you have the relevent qualifications and the required experience

    That's just horsesh1t. There isn't 'plenty of jobs' regardless of what you are or aren't qualified in. We have almost half a million people unemployed. Where are all those jobs going to come from? The reality is that we'll never have them, because we have little or no indigenous industry of our own. What do we actually produce? Not much. Spuds and beef and a bit of software.

    The notion that there's plenty of jobs is bollox. And obviously not everyone can be highly qualified, such qualifications wouldn't mean much if every Tom Dick and Harry had one. The majority of people rely on ordinary jobs to make a living, ordinsry office and factory jobs, cafes, reastaurants, pubs, shops etc. And those jobs simply don't exist as the vast majority of businesses are either not hiring or in many cases are actually laying people off.


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    #49
    ilovesleep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,619 ✭✭✭ilovesleep


    bbam wrote: »
    Yes I know there are some jobs out there if you have qualifications and experience... I changed jobs myself within the last year.

    However if you happen to be 30 or under the prospects are indeed bleek.. the government can sugar coat it how they like but with unemployment growing and growing I'd say they are failing on their promises..

    Reskilling is the only avenue for lots of people.. however this needs to be fully understood.. The likes of EA games aren't looking for forty something year old unemployed plasterers who have done a 9 month introduction to computers with FAS.. Reskilling to a decent standard takes 3-4 years of fulltime education.. thats a hard sell to a person with a few kids and a mortgage to service..

    So the truth seems that if you have a decent Qualification, preferably in IT, experience, a second language and live in Dublin, Cork or Galway then yes things may seem a litle better.. But that leaves a whole swathe of people for whom the days are getting darker and darker, they feel forgotten and ignored.

    Rural Ireland in general is moving backwards.. i see myself towns where the unemployment, expectations and attitudes are as bad as it was in the 80's with little hope... It won't take too long until it's like the 50's

    What was it like in the 50s?


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    #50
    Gurgle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,064 ✭✭✭Gurgle


    PhlegmyMoses wrote: »
    Learning a language to a high enough level to function within a business environment is not as simple as downloading a few Michel Thomas audiobooks and Skyping a few Spaniards.
    Yes, it is.
    Spend a few hours a day for 4 years with rosetta stone, audio books, web pages, blogs, news sites etc and you can be fluent in whatever language you choose.

    Spend 4 years in UCD and you can get yourself a BA in a language studies. Throw in a H.Dip and you can teach languages to LC level.
    PhlegmyMoses wrote: »
    To suggest that construction workers should simply do this, many of whom left school precisely due to their natural affinity towards other kinds of learning and work, is disingenuous.
    Are you suggesting that 10% of the population (the current live register) don't have the capability to learn a foreign language?
    I couldn't disagree more.
    Anyone who can speak English can learn another language. It just takes time, effort and motivation. Motivation is sustainable employment, time and effort is up to the individual.


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    #51
    Gurgle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,064 ✭✭✭Gurgle


    aidan24326 wrote: »
    What do we actually produce? Not much. Spuds and beef and a bit of software.
    What absolute bùllshìt.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ireland_Export_Treemap.jpg


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    #52
    aidan24326
    Registered Users Posts: 5,925 ✭✭✭aidan24326


    Gurgle wrote: »
    What absolute bùllshìt.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ireland_Export_Treemap.jpg

    Bullsh1t? Really?

    How many of those companies are Irish? How much do we rely on foreign investment? Almost entirely.

    What I meant is that we have almost no major brands or indutries to call our own. If the American multinationals all pulled out tomorrow we'd be back in the 1950s. But getting back on-thread, nobody's hiring. That's the crux of it.


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    #53
    JohnMarston
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,881 ✭✭✭JohnMarston


    aidan24326 wrote: »
    That's just horsesh1t. There isn't 'plenty of jobs' regardless of what you are or aren't qualified in. We have almost half a million people unemployed. Where are all those jobs going to come from? The reality is that we'll never have them, because we have little or no indigenous industry of our own. What do we actually produce? Not much. Spuds and beef and a bit of software.

    The notion that there's plenty of jobs is bollox. And obviously not everyone can be highly qualified, such qualifications wouldn't mean much if every Tom Dick and Harry had one. The majority of people rely on ordinary jobs to make a living, ordinsry office and factory jobs, cafes, reastaurants, pubs, shops etc. And those jobs simply don't exist as the vast majority of businesses are either not hiring or in many cases are actually laying people off.

    Maybe i should clarify that i was referring to the jobs available only to those would a qualification and ridiculous number of years of experience. Of course there arent many jobs. My comment was a subtle jab at the amount of pre-requisites many job vacancies contain nowdays.


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    #54
    bbam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,410 ✭✭✭bbam


    ilovesleep wrote: »
    What was it like in the 50s?

    http://historical-debates.oireachtas.ie/S/0051/S.0051.195912160008.html

    Aparrently not too different....
    "As I understand the position, income tax is collected from a comparatively small section of the community and, generally speaking, will continue to be collected from that same comparatively small group"


    they seemed quite happy to screw the "worker" with new taxes..
    "As I see it, this P.A.Y.E. system will spread the income tax collection more evently amongst those in employment "



    Note:
    I resisted the usual AH "I'll ask your ma tonight"


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    #55
    bbam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,410 ✭✭✭bbam


    Gurgle wrote: »
    Are you suggesting that 10% of the population (the current live register) don't have the capability to learn a foreign language?
    I couldn't disagree more.
    Anyone who can speak English can learn another language. It just takes time, effort and motivation. Motivation is sustainable employment, time and effort is up to the individual.

    Great..
    Then we can have 200,000 unemployed plasterers/blocklayers who can sorta speak spanish.. we'll be the envy of europe then !!


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    #56
    aidan24326
    Registered Users Posts: 5,925 ✭✭✭aidan24326


    JohnMarston wrote: »
    Maybe i should clarify that i was referring to the jobs available only to those would a qualification and ridiculous number of years of experience. Of course there arent many jobs. My comment was a subtle jab at the amount of pre-requisites many job vacancies contain nowdays.


    I appreciate your clarification. I thought you were implying that there was plenty of jobs in general. Obviously there isn't.

    And you're quite right that a lot of companies are getting carried away with themselves in the kind of pre-requisites they're asking for in their job descriptions. It's nonsense really.

    I think any advert for a recruitment/HR gimp consultant should read 'must be an absolute tool'.


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    #57
    PhlegmyMoses
    Registered Users Posts: 11,906 ✭✭✭✭PhlegmyMoses


    Gurgle wrote: »
    Yes, it is.
    Spend a few hours a day for 4 years with rosetta stone, audio books, web pages, blogs, news sites etc and you can be fluent in whatever language you choose.

    Spend 4 years in UCD and you can get yourself a BA in a language studies. Throw in a H.Dip and you can teach languages to LC level.

    There is a big difference between the kind of fluency you need to make general conversation with someone and the kind needed to work in a business environment speaking to native speakers over the phone.

    Most call centres are looking for native or near-native speakers when it comes to customer facing jobs. Everybody has heard somebody complaining about getting through to some call centre in India that they couldn't understand which left them frustrated with the company. Companies are painfully aware of this and it's why we have so many English speaking call centres here.

    We have people who have lived for 10 years in this country whose English is not good enough to get a job that would require them to speak to a customer day-in, day-out.

    As for the college option, those who take up the degree you are talking about are those who have a natural aptitude and affinity towards languages. They will have already been almost fluent in at least one other language before even hitting that degree and the degree is there to fine tune. I did a second language to degree level. It's a tough slog and not as simple as having 4 years and an internet connection.

    Your average maths graduate would struggle to complete such a degree, let alone those who worked as labourers on building sites - you specifically referred to construction workers - and have been out of education since they were 16 years old. This is not even taking into consideration the relative costs of such degrees coupled with the lack of money incoming during this 4 year period to sustain families, houses, etc.

    Are you suggesting that 10% of the population (the current live register) don't have the capability to learn a foreign language?
    I couldn't disagree more.
    Anyone who can speak English can learn another language. It just takes time, effort and motivation. Motivation is sustainable employment, time and effort is up to the individual.
    This is a romantic notion. The "You can do anything if you put your mind to it" ideal that is nice to aspire to but not grounded in reality at all. The reality is that a huge number of people would find it incredibly difficult to learn a language - certainly not through self-motivation and downloading a Rosetta Stone - not least because it is not something that is ingrained in Irish culture.

    We are not Norway or Sweden where the economic limitation imposed by their language was noticed generations ago and dealt with over a long period of time through extensive education of kids. They learnt English in tandem with Swedish or Norwegian for the first 20 years of their life.

    Basically, I don't agree with this blasé attitude that if you really want to, you can become business-fluent within 4 years and that this could be a realistic goal for a large amount of people, especially those for whom education stopped at 16. It would require a massive cultural change over generations.


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    #58
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 25,611 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    There isn't a load of jobs going easy but among my friends and acquaintances things seem to be picking up and when I was in the dole yesterday of the 4 people ahead of me in the queue two were signing off and two were going back to college, first time I'd seen a majority be there for positive reasons.


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    #59
    Gurgle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,064 ✭✭✭Gurgle


    PhlegmyMoses wrote: »
    Most call centres are looking for native or near-native speakers...
    10 years in this country whose English is not good enough...
    ..those who have a natural aptitude and affinity towards languages...
    Your average maths graduate would struggle to complete such a degree...
    ...a huge number of people would find it incredibly difficult to learn a language...
    ...not something that is ingrained in Irish culture.
    We are not Norway or Sweden...
    ...I don't agree with this blasé attitude ...
    ^^ Thinly veiled 'I don't want to learn a language' :P


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    #60
    PhlegmyMoses
    Registered Users Posts: 11,906 ✭✭✭✭PhlegmyMoses


    Gurgle wrote: »
    ^^ Thinly veiled 'I don't want to learn a language' :P

    I have a second language ya bollox! :D Wouldn't mind learning another tbh but I'd have to dedicate a lot of time to it which isn't really an option with work at the moment.


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    #61
    bbam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,410 ✭✭✭bbam


    Gurgle wrote: »
    ^^ Thinly veiled 'I don't want to learn a language' :P

    Thinly Veiled "look at me, I think everyone who is no good at languages is lazy" :P:P


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