Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi all! We have been experiencing an issue on site where threads have been missing the latest postings. The platform host Vanilla are working on this issue. A workaround that has been used by some is to navigate back from 1 to 10+ pages to re-sync the thread and this will then show the latest posts. Thanks, Mike.
Hi there,
There is an issue with role permissions that is being worked on at the moment.
If you are having trouble with access or permissions on regional forums please post here to get access: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058365403/you-do-not-have-permission-for-that#latest

Hillsborough revelations due today **SEE MOD NOTE POST #1**

12357…11

Comments

  • #202
    ziggy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,681 ✭✭✭ziggy


    This post has been deleted.


  • #203
    K-9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    iguana wrote: »
    Mackenzie has just apologised and said 'I should have written "The Lies" instead of "The Truth." '

    Well he hardly could say anything else. Detestable man and not just on this issue.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • #204
    MagicSean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    Opie wrote: »
    I'm not looking to argue for the point of it, just saying that a lot of people were on here from the begining of the thread with ignorant and inflamatory comments. Guff that has since been debunked upon release of the report. Yet still you post this:

    As I said i'm still reading it but it seems the culture of hooliganism in football at the time was a big contributor to the state of the stadium and the police approach. The report details escalating problems going back to the 1981 finals. I think the football clubs and police should take responsability for allowing this culture to foster to the extent it did.

    But there can be no denying that the planning and decisions made on the day, the majority of which seem to have been made by just a few high up people, were directly to blame.


    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Buttonftw viewpost.gif
    Police will call anything that isn't silent "unruly" when it suits them.

    The actual extract is "Mounted police officers were trapped in the crowd. In
    later testimonies police officers stated that the crowd grew ‘unruly’, ‘nasty’ and ‘violent’, but people caught in the crush gave a contrasting account."

    You're still going on about hooligans like its relevant. Police testimonies have been proven to be not worth the paper they're written on.

    Yes the culture of hooliganism is relevant to what happened. All the reports and the families accept this. Why can you not? You hear the word and all you seem to think is "he's blaming the fans". I'm talking about how hooliganism in football had resulted in the large barriers being placed around the grounds and and us versus them mentality from the police. I'm not talking about hooligans on the day.


  • #205
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 25,611 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Didn't he make a half-apology before and then after he left The Sun turn it around again? Contemptible assortment of matter he is.


  • #206
    bruschi
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 4,142 Mod ✭✭✭✭bruschi


    with regards tot he Sun, I read an article recently about the reporter who worte 'The Truth' piece for the sun.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/greenslade/2012/sep/07/hillsborough-disaster-sun
    When I saw the headline, 'The Truth,' I was aghast, because that wasn't what I'd written. I'd never used the words the truth... I still believe [I wrote it] in a balanced and fair way.

    "So I said to Kelvin MacKenzie, 'You can't say that'. And he said 'Why not?' and I said, 'because we don't know that it's the truth. This is a version of 'the truth'

    so MacKenzie knew it was off, and was told this by his reporter. This to me, does not absolve the Sun of any wrongdoing which some are trying to portray here because they were fed lies themselves. They knew it was wrong when it was being published, but continued to do so.


  • #207
    celt262
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,560 ✭✭✭celt262


    Will the FA be in trouble for holding the game in a stadium with no safety Certificate?


  • #208
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    MagicSean wrote: »
    Yes you are implying an agenda.....

    I'm not implying it, I'm saying its clearly there.


  • #209
    billybudd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭billybudd


    K-9 wrote: »
    In fairness just concentrating on those incidents in the North is only a start, but it gives you a good idea on attitudes by law and order and justice forces and it went to the top, judiciary, politicians etc.

    Liverpool suffered because of its socialist council in the 80's, one of the few left to break after the miners and Wapping News International strikes had been defeated. A Tory politician was quoted last year in historical papers released, recommending starving the city of funding, he hated it so much. that attitude was common with the Tories.

    Not much on Maggie in it apparently apart from:


    Just examples, we should all show solidarity against institutions that hide the truth just like we should all celebrate when those lies are brought to the surface.


  • #210
    Latchy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,191 ✭✭✭✭Latchy


    K-9 wrote: »
    And other papers did report what they were told, even one of the local Liverpool papers.

    For some strange reason it didn't resonate like this, despicable lies never corroborated by anybody.
    Deleted User wrote: »
    Didn't he make a half-apology before and then after he left The Sun turn it around again? Contemptible assortment of matter he is.





    Yes, on on a Granada tv programme last year he said they got the first news reports from a London source ,then he said it was a Liverpool one but next day backtracked and said it was a London source after all .You couldn't take the credibility of somebody like this serious .


  • Advertisement
  • #211
    AEDIC
    Registered Users Posts: 444 ✭✭AEDIC


    iguana wrote: »
    Mackenzie has just apologised and said 'I should have written "The Lies" instead of "The Truth." '

    He had no option but to do that... however, too little, too late...particularly when in subsequent years...even knowing his sources to be unreliable, he persisted with his lies.


  • #212
    MagicSean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    Nodin wrote: »
    I'm not implying it, I'm saying its clearly there.

    So a personal comment like I said.


  • #213
    Bannasidhe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,218 ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    I was sitting on the top deck of a bus passing Hillborough as the disaster occurred. Due to the actions of the South Yorkshire Police the bus couldn't move and we could clearly see and hear what was happening. We could see the police herding people into the stadium even as we could hear the screams from inside and onlookers yelling at the police to stop, that people were being crushed to death.
    I couldn't believe it when the S Y police attempted to blame the fans - I saw what happened and it was the actions of the police and the police alone that led to the deaths of 96 people.


  • #214
    Tipsy McSwagger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,068 ✭✭✭Tipsy McSwagger


    Lots of great posts being written by Man U fans on RedCafe which is nice to see.


  • #215
    brandon_flowers
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,657 ✭✭✭brandon_flowers


    MacKenzie was the spawn to Rebekah Brooks and Andy Coulson and all these other guttersnipe "journalists" that Murdoch Inc love. The fact that this **** is accepted in a democratic country as journalism is sad.

    And Cameron while talking the right talk today will have some questions to answer when his relationship with Brooks is all over the British media with a new breed of scumbag journalists.


  • #216
    Opie
    Registered Users Posts: 65 ✭✭Opie


    MagicSean wrote: »
    Yes the culture of hooliganism is relevant to what happened. All the reports and the families accept this. Why can you not? You hear the word and all you seem to think is "he's blaming the fans". I'm talking about how hooliganism in football had resulted in the large barriers being placed around the grounds and and us versus them mentality from the police. I'm not talking about hooligans on the day.

    But you did blame fans. Point 4 on your hit list was about unrully fans being as much to blame. And in my other posts i have stated that Hooliganism was rampant back then and this is why the fencing was erected. No arguement there. I feel that all your posts have an element of trying to blame the fans someway, from your original "Point 4" to your partial defence of the police due to the hooligan culture of the day.

    Just to clarify, as there are seemingly lots of crossed wires, do you think Liverpool or their fans are in any way culpible for what happened on that day?


  • Advertisement
  • #217
    mike65
    Closed Accounts Posts: 88,972 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    celt262 wrote: »
    Will the FA be in trouble for holding the game in a stadium with no safety Certificate?

    Good question, in theory the following could be held accountable and even open to a charge of corporate manslaughter

    Sheffield Wednesday FC, Sheffield City Council and the FA.


  • #218
    Mikeyt086
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,825 ✭✭✭Mikeyt086


    Tipsy McSwagger wrote: »
    Lots of great posts being written by Man U fans on RedCafe which is nice to see.

    It shouldn't matter what football club anyone supports regarding an issue like this. The evidence has been accepted that the families of those killed were lied to, and what they have been saying happened for the last 23 years is in fact true, anyone who tries to spin it in a different way is just being a horrible person and really needs to get off the internet, go for a walk and have a think about themselves.


  • #219
    MagicSean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    Opie wrote: »
    But you did blame fans. Point 4 on your hit list was about unrully fans being as much to blame. And in my other posts i have stated that Hooliganism was rampant back then and this is why the fencing was erected. No arguement there. I feel that all your posts have an element of trying to blame the fans someway, from your original "Point 4" to your partial defence of the police due to the hooligan culture of the day.

    Just to clarify, as there are seemingly lots of crossed wires, do you think Liverpool or their fans are in any way culpible for what happened on that day?

    I've said I was wrong on point four and I shown you what my assumption was based on.

    I think Liverpool FC are as responsable as the rest of the clubs for allowing the hooliganism to thrive in the game in the preceeding years which contributed to the surrounding circumstances of the disaster (i.e. the unsuitable stadium and the adversarial atmosphere). I don't think the supporters are to blame for any of what happened on the day.

    Hope that's cleared things up


  • #220
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    I still can't understand why they didn't delay the kick off. It wasn't uncommon and could have helped the situation.


  • #221
    Tipsy McSwagger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,068 ✭✭✭Tipsy McSwagger


    Let's get one thing clear Justice was not done today. Today was about the truth and the truth has finally come out.


  • Advertisement
  • #222
    MagicSean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    I still can't understand why they didn't delay the kick off. It wasn't uncommon and could have helped the situation.

    Poor communication and pre planning. The head cop had left the control room and the players were on the pitch when those in the control room were made aware of the trouble. They made the decision not to try postpone based on their standing orders which were to allow the match to continue once the players were on the pitch. I think the first person on the pitch to notice the problem was Bruce Grobelaar who brought it to the attention of the pitchside police and officials.


  • #223
    billybudd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭billybudd


    MagicSean wrote: »
    I've said I was wrong on point four and I shown you what my assumption was based on.

    I think Liverpool FC are as responsable as the rest of the clubs for allowing the hooliganism to thrive in the game in the preceeding years which contributed to the surrounding circumstances of the disaster (i.e. the unsuitable stadium and the adversarial atmosphere). I don't think the supporters are to blame for any of what happened on the day.

    Hope that's cleared things up

    The electronic age has changed the face of hooliganism i think it would be unfair to blame any club in those days for it as they would not have had the means to change such a social issue that should have been politically an important issue but was left alone for far to long.


    Some of your points are right but you have picked the wrong tragety to make them, this was about a stadium unfit for that many people and the police for obstructing not only justice but on the day failing to manage a situation that could have been adverted.


  • #224
    Opie
    Registered Users Posts: 65 ✭✭Opie


    MagicSean wrote: »
    I've said I was wrong on point four and I shown you what my assumption was based on.

    I think Liverpool FC are as responsable as the rest of the clubs for allowing the hooliganism to thrive in the game in the preceeding years which contributed to the surrounding circumstances of the disaster (i.e. the unsuitable stadium and the adversarial atmosphere). I don't think the supporters are to blame for any of what happened on the day.

    Hope that's cleared things up

    I dont know what clubs could have done to stop hooligans in the 70's and 80's. It was all very well organised and a lot of the fighting happened away from the stadiums. This issue has been tackled somewhat since the 90's. I'm not trying to defend hooliganism, I'm just not accepting it as a major factor in the events of the day. A secondary fact maybe, explaining the polices attitude towards football fans back then, but this is just more covering up in my opinion. The actions of the South Yorkshire Police that day was reprahensible, directly causing the deaths of 96 innocent fans. Not to mention the trauma of thousands of other fans who were there, both Liverpool and Forest.


  • #225
    danniemcq
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,163 ✭✭✭✭danniemcq


    Brief summary of the main points from the guardian blog
    • Doubt has been cast over the original inquest ruling, after a report into the Hillsborough disaster has revealed that 41 victims "had the potential to survive".
    • South Yorkshire Police and the emergency services made "strenuous attempts" to deflect the blame for the crush onto victims.
    • The report found 116 of the 164 police statements were "amended to remove or alter comments unfavourable to South Yorkshire Police".
    • Police carried out blood alcohol readings on victims, including children in order to "impugn their reputations".
    • Prime minister David Cameron has said he is "profoundly sorry" for the "double injustice" of the Hillsborough disaster.
    • Kelvin MacKenzie, Sun editor when the paper ran a story blaming fans, offered "profuse apologies" for the headline.
    • David Compton, chief constable of South Yorkshire Police, "profoundly apologises" to families of the 96 victims and Liverpool fans in general.


  • #226
    SEPT 23 1989
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,028 ✭✭✭✭SEPT 23 1989


    "had the potential to survive".:(


  • #227
    Opie
    Registered Users Posts: 65 ✭✭Opie


    SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »
    "had the potential to survive".:(

    Heartbreaking stuff.


  • #228
    danniemcq
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,163 ✭✭✭✭danniemcq


    bruschi wrote: »
    with regards tot he Sun, I read an article recently about the reporter who worte 'The Truth' piece for the sun.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/greenslade/2012/sep/07/hillsborough-disaster-sun



    so MacKenzie knew it was off, and was told this by his reporter. This to me, does not absolve the Sun of any wrongdoing which some are trying to portray here because they were fed lies themselves. They knew it was wrong when it was being published, but continued to do so.


    the man is a lowlife, I wish him nothing but the worst


  • #229
    danniemcq
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,163 ✭✭✭✭danniemcq


    SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »
    "had the potential to survive".:(

    the sad thing is 96 had the potential to survive, those 41 deaths however somehow seem more poignant.

    i can only imagine what the families are going through reading the report.

    I've looked at some witness statements and its sending shivers down my spine.


  • #230
    Chucky the tree
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,341 ✭✭✭✭Chucky the tree


    Shows up MacKenzie for what he is. A complete scumbag who apology means nothing.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-58pQrZ7Pas&feature=player_embedded


  • #231
    danniemcq
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,163 ✭✭✭✭danniemcq


    on police statements being changed
    Original wrote:
    He also wrote originally: "It was noticeable that the only supervisory officers above the rank of Inspector on the pitch were Chief Inspectors Beal and Sumner and Superintendent Greenwood. Certain supervisory officers were conspicuous by their absence. It was utter chaos."
    changed to wrote:
    "On the pitch were Chief Inspectors Beal and Sumner and Superintendent Greenwood."


  • Advertisement
  • #232
    WumBuster
    Closed Accounts Posts: 827 ✭✭✭WumBuster


    Tipsy McSwagger wrote: »
    Let's get one thing clear Justice was not done today. Today was about the truth and the truth has finally come out.

    Dont understand this justice thing. What type of justice are you looking for exactly? Executions? Jailings? Not going to happen. The police cocked up, tried to cover it up, and now today we learn officially that this was the case and what we knew already. Thats about the nearest to justice as we'll come.


  • #233
    SocSocPol
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,043 ✭✭✭SocSocPol


    danniemcq wrote: »
    Brief summary of the main points from the guardian blog

    [/LIST]
    Reminds me of Bloody Sunday, blame the victims, impugn their good names, rewrite statements to suit the authorities version of events.
    Hard to believe that they went to such lenghts to blacken the names of victims in order to cover their own stupidity, incometence and bloodymindedness.:mad:


  • #234
    Bannasidhe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,218 ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    There is a background to the way the South Yorkshire police behaved that day. They were deeply distrusted in the North of England due to their heavy handed tactics during the '84/'85 Miner's Strike. Images of S. Y. mounted police baton charging picket lines had been published across the world and widely condemned. In '87, the trial of some of the miners arrested in '84 not only collapsed, the SY police paid compensation in an out of court settlement but never acknowledged any wrong doing.

    By '89, the SY police had adapted a siege mentality, they were known for their strong arm tactics, covering up for each other and general contempt for the community they were supposed to serve and protect. I lived in Sheffield from '89 to '93 and I always found the SY police to be helpful, but all my neighbours just didn't trust them.

    What I saw from the top of that bus in April 1989 was a police force who had no idea what to do, lacked any leadership, refused to listen to what the public was telling them and were acting according to their default stance of herding people into a contained area - by force if necessary.


  • #235
    The Rooster
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,642 ✭✭✭The Rooster


    WumBuster wrote: »
    Dont understand this justice thing. What type of justice are you looking for exactly? Executions? Jailings? Not going to happen. The police cocked up, tried to cover it up, and now today we learn officially that this was the case and what we knew already. Thats about the nearest to justice as we'll come.

    And it went higher and wider than just the police.

    Shows again that the people can never be complacent regarding the abuse of power by those in supposed high places.


  • #236
    K-9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    WumBuster wrote: »
    Dont understand this justice thing. What type of justice are you looking for exactly? Executions? Jailings? Not going to happen. The police cocked up, tried to cover it up, and now today we learn officially that this was the case and what we knew already. Thats about the nearest to justice as we'll come.

    Justice would be having proper inquests, I know it's 23 years ago but we now know many of the 96 never got proper autopsys. I'd say little things like that are important to the families.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • #237
    Tipsy McSwagger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,068 ✭✭✭Tipsy McSwagger


    WumBuster wrote: »
    Dont understand this justice thing. What type of justice are you looking for exactly? Executions? Jailings? Not going to happen. The police cocked up, tried to cover it up, and now today we learn officially that this was the case and what we knew already. Thats about the nearest to justice as we'll come.

    Senior officials in the South Yorkshire Police should be brought to justice for letting the disaster happen and then the cover up in which they blamed the fans for it.


  • #238
    WumBuster
    Closed Accounts Posts: 827 ✭✭✭WumBuster


    Tipsy McSwagger wrote: »
    Senior officials in the South Yorkshire Police should be brought to justice for letting the disaster happen and then the cover up in which they blamed the fans for it.

    But did they commit any crime? How exactly would you bring them to justice for this? Under what legal technicality? Plus they are cops, they have friends in high places etc etc Sorry buddy but i agree with principle of the whole thing but never in a million years will anything happen to these people.


  • #239
    upandcumming
    Registered Users Posts: 2,718 ✭✭✭upandcumming


    super_furry wrote: »

    Don't think After Hours is the right place for a serious discussion on the issue either.

    Of course it is.


  • #240
    Bullseye1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,731 ✭✭✭Bullseye1


    WumBuster wrote: »
    But did they commit any crime? How exactly would you bring them to justice for this? Under what legal technicality? Plus they are cops, they have friends in high places etc etc Sorry buddy but i agree with principle of the whole thing but never in a million years will anything happen to these people.

    They were negligent in their duty on that day and they proceeded to falsify and change statements to cover up their negligence. They also portrayed the Liverpool fans as thugs and rioting fans. The people responsible should be jailed.


  • Advertisement
  • #241
    billybudd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭billybudd


    WumBuster wrote: »
    But did they commit any crime? How exactly would you bring them to justice for this? Under what legal technicality? Plus they are cops, they have friends in high places etc etc Sorry buddy but i agree with principle of the whole thing but never in a million years will anything happen to these people.

    The families have perservered for 23 years for the truth and i am quite sure they will perservere for a lot longer to get justice and now i think they will.


  • #242
    iguana
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,916 ✭✭✭✭iguana


    WumBuster wrote: »
    Dont understand this justice thing. What type of justice are you looking for exactly? Executions? Jailings? Not going to happen. The police cocked up, tried to cover it up, and now today we learn officially that this was the case and what we knew already. Thats about the nearest to justice as we'll come.

    Well for one Cameron's statement strongly hinted that the Attorney General will be required to challenge the inquest rulings of 'accidental death' for each of the 96. When that happens it should be bloody massive. The time line surrounding each victim will be re-examined and the odds are that it will be found that each one suffered before dying and that they died due to negligence. The families of the 41 who were found to have had a good chance of survival past the 3.15pm cut off will finally know what they have long suspected (which I'm sure will bring a new level of heartbreak to what they are going through) and the way they were denied the best available medical treatment will be gone through on a case by case basis.

    Even if no-one is prosecuted, which they certainly should be, the victims' families will at least be able to take legal action against those responsible. Cold comfort, but certainly more just than the options they have had up until now.


  • #243
    Tipsy McSwagger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,068 ✭✭✭Tipsy McSwagger


    WumBuster wrote: »
    But did they commit any crime? How exactly would you bring them to justice for this? Under what legal technicality? Plus they are cops, they have friends in high places etc etc Sorry buddy but i agree with principle of the whole thing but never in a million years will anything happen to these people.

    Yes they committed a crime when they fabricated the truth.


  • #244
    Turtyturd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,397 ✭✭✭✭Turtyturd


    WumBuster wrote: »
    But did they commit any crime? How exactly would you bring them to justice for this? Under what legal technicality? Plus they are cops, they have friends in high places etc etc Sorry buddy but i agree with principle of the whole thing but never in a million years will anything happen to these people.

    Surely interfering in an investigation is some kind of crime.


  • #245
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 25,611 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    To be honest I can't see justice ever being done. Maybe being seen to be done but would anyone be confident in any charges or convictions being down to anything other than scapegoating and those charged simply being the least good politicians?


  • #246
    LuckyLloyd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,401 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    Chucky the tree wrote: »
    Shows up MacKenzie for what he is. A complete scumbag who apology means nothing.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-58pQrZ7Pas&feature=player_embedded

    He's only apologising because he has absolutely no other option now. I am very confident that he would have witheld such an apology if there was even a smidgeon of doubt or ambiguity about the findings.

    I often wonder if people like himself or Brooks every experience a moment of clarity where they think 'oh my god, I'm actually evil and have sold my soul for money, what have I done with my life?' Wishful thinking.


  • Advertisement
  • #247
    Rascasse
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,670 ✭✭✭Rascasse


    Well the Hillsborough families have Michael Mansfield QC advising them and he is asking for consideration of criminal charges.

    From the Guardian
    .... Grieve will want to consider whether the new evidence released on Wednesday discloses potential criminal offences. The most serious charge referred to by Michael Mansfield QC, on behalf of the families, was manslaughter — unlawful killing by gross negligence.

    It might be difficult to establish that individuals responsible for the Hillsborough ground were culpable to criminal standard of proof for the deaths of fans whose lives might otherwise have been saved. But if witness statements, made for use in court, were amended by someone else in a way that changed their meaning, those responsible could be charged with perverting the course of justice. Former police officers could be charged with misconduct in public office.


  • #248
    wonderfullife
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,924 ✭✭✭wonderfullife


    I mentioned this in the thread on the soccer forum too:

    In terms of justice now there are 2 ways forward:

    1. Civil cases. Suing for damages for negligence etc. The problem there is the Statute of Limitations (time allowed for these claims) has long since passed. So, for example, suing the South Yorkshire Police Force is highly unlikely. Even if they were able to sue them, the chances of success in that regard are not certain notwithstanding todays report.

    2. Criminal cases. The likes of David Duckenfield have already been tried and acquitted in a court of law. The law on "Double Jeopardy" was ammended in 2003 in England. So it is possible for re-trials. For that to happen it needs the following:

    a) Attorney-General to authorise a re-trial
    b) The Court of Appeal to quash the original verdicts.

    For a) and b) to happen will likely take up to 5 more years to sort out, as there will be multiple appeals on the matter.

    For any fresh criminal cases, i.e. people never brought to court, there will need to be compelling evidence to secure a charge of manslaughter. The charges relating to the cover-up, e.g. perjury in a court of law might be easier to prove.

    All in all it is quite unlikely that many, if any, will see the inside of a jail for what happened that day and in subsequent years.


  • #249
    WumBuster
    Closed Accounts Posts: 827 ✭✭✭WumBuster


    wonderfullife wrote: »
    I mentioned this in the thread on the soccer forum too:

    In terms of justice now there are 2 ways forward:

    1. Civil cases. Suing for damages for negligence etc. The problem there is the Statute of Limitations (time allowed for these claims) has long since passed. So, for example, suing the South Yorkshire Police Force is highly unlikely. Even if they were able to sue them, the chances of success in that regard are not certain notwithstanding todays report.

    2. Criminal cases. The likes of David Duckenfield have already been tried and acquitted in a court of law. The law on "Double Jeopardy" was ammended in 2003 in England. So it is possible for re-trials. For that to happen it needs the following:

    a) Attorney-General to authorise a re-trial
    b) The Court of Appeal to quash the original verdicts.

    For a) and b) to happen will likely take up to 5 more years to sort out, as there will be multiple appeals on the matter.

    For any fresh criminal cases, i.e. people never brought to court, there will need to be compelling evidence to secure a charge of manslaughter. The charges relating to the cover-up, e.g. perjury in a court of law might be easier to prove.

    All in all it is quite unlikely that many, if any, will see the inside of a jail for what happened that day and in subsequent years.

    To punish one person for a crime is far easier than punishing a whole body of people, not least a whole police force. And to achieve convictions punishments proportionately and fairly to the individuals responsible would be next to impossible in this instance, i would imagine.


  • #250
    Chuck Stone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,030 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    What bothers me is the closing of ranks - why did no whistle blowers emerge from the ranks of those who are supposed to protect and serve the public?

    Whoever was involved in the cover-up should be fired and sued. Destitution would be too good for the pricks.


  • #251
    Latchy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,191 ✭✭✭✭Latchy


    Today was about truth and justice for the family's of the 96 who will take much comfort from knowing that their loved ones have been exonerated in the strongest terms by the government.


  • Advertisement
Advertisement