ATH First round match 6 - Beakerjoe vs BrianRegan

Bounty Hunter · 29-09-2014 5:01pm #1

So I handed over the Roman Luther Reigns to BeakerJoe this year but can he do what I usually fail to do and advance past the first round? To do so he will have to defeat the wildcard known as LeeJM in this the 6th 1st round match up.

Simplified version of the rules:

I will post a topic and you have to post your response including why you made that choice within a given time limit (before the next match is scheduled to begin), take care while making your responses however as the other contestant can counter your arguement i.e pointing out possible flaws in what youve said.

*you can only counter an arguement two times so make sure your point is worth making. If someone's defense of their arguement isnt good it will count against them.

*You can use the same answer as your opponent if you wish i.e you agree with their choice however its hard to win a debate when your making the same points someone has already made

see the OP of the main thread for further details or if any examples are needed check out previous years competitions.

Question 5: Which one angle that was dropped would you have liked to have seen play out. Why do you think that angle had so much potential and how would you have liked to see it go?

after your first post: why would your choice be better than your opponents?

G'luck and have at it!

beakerjoe · 29-09-2014 8:53pm

Well we have one hell of a scope-y question and its a corker too. WWE/WWF have been notorious for quietly and abruptly dropping many an angle at the drop of a hat. But which one would I have loved to see play out the most.......?

Well the one I wanted to see continue, wasn't dropped because of backstage politics, awful creative writing or injury/suspension misfortune. It was ended thanks to real life events and even though I think it should of continued, it was dropped because of the 7/7 Train attacks in London. I am of course talking about the Mohammad Hussan - Undertaker Feud and more importantly the Hussan character itself.

The Mohammad Hussan persona, in my humble opinion, had an unreal amount of potential. He is probably what Vince McMahon called a slam dunk : He had the look, speaking skills, charisma and he wasn't a bad wrestler. And of course his character was a heat magnet in a time when the Pro America crowds not only hated foreign stars but any middle eastern looking gentlemen. Mark Copani, an American himself, played the part superbly, as he described himself as an Arab-American wrestler wanting relief from the increased prejudice and stereotypes created by the 9/11 attacks. In his short career he faced HBK, Hulk Hogan and John Cena all while on Raw but it was a move to Smackdown and a feud with a legend that looked to catapult him further into the WWE upper midcard and Main event, yet it didn't happen.

He was put into a feud with The Undertaker, a locker room big dog who tended to put over young stars. Hussan began to feud with Taker and after Taker defeated Hussans lackey Davari, Hussan began to pray and as he did he summoned 5 masked men to attack the undertaker, in an Al Queda esque attack. It looked visually impressive and it got Hussan over more as a heel in a big way. Everything was going great.

3 Days later, the London bombings happened.

Hussans character was dropped and Mark Copani's career in WWE was rocked. I can see why WWE dropped it in the interest in sensitivity, however I think that had the terrorist attack never happened, I believe the angle and character would have went from strength to strength. Having humbled the Undertaker in such a way, Hussan would have got heat close, if not on par, with Sgt Slaughter during his WM7 program with Hogan (Hate Mail, Death Threats, having to wear a bullet proof vest for protection.). I would have had Hussan claim he was pushed into his actions by small minded Americans. He would mention how he was victimised and racially discriminated against while on Raw. He would vow to change himself on Smackdown and take extreme measures to show how he not only he should be shown respect but how America and Americans alike should be punished for their foolish believes.

Mohammad and his masked men would defeat the Undertaker at Great American Bash and then be put in a Hell in a Cell match at the Undertakers demand at Summerslam. During this feud Hussan could water board some opponents and Taker himself, kidknapp and torture him in segments. Taker then would lose at Hell in a Cell (through cheating on Hussans part or by interference). Hussans crew could then emulate Takers own Ministrys actions at WM15 by climbing the cell and passing a noose through the ceiling. Imagine the visual of Taker being hung from the Cell by Hussans crew just as he did to the Bossman in the past. Hussan would take over!

He in my opinion would have the skills and potential to run with this push and become the number 1 heel on Smackdown and in WWE. Hed be super over from his actions and the heel heat would get from taking down Taker in such fashion would surely propel him into a near modern day Super Villian type character that Vince would wet his pants over. It was an unfortunate situation for WWE and Hussan and if the timing wasn't so bad, I feel the WWE would of had a great heel character to at least head its Smackdown brand.

brianregan09 · 02-10-2014 5:57pm

WWE doesn't drop the ball on anything.....right ??.....lol anyway okay thanks 1st and foremost for throwing me in and i think i have an idea what i'm going to say here, For me the biggest dropped ball of an angle would have to be Rybacks face push

Stay with me now..After Wrestlemania 2012..About 2 weeks after if memory serves me correctly , Ryback appeared and started winning squash matchs on Raw and Smackdown sometimes defeating 2 or even more jobbers and showed amazing power and dare i say it , He had the look. Now fans initially when he came out started chanting Goldberg because lets face it outside of the Singlet they were very similar, mannerisms,looks,moves etc,

But despite this Ryback slowly got his own chant over FEED ME MORE so much so that the fans started chanting it in time with his entrance music which once again was awesome, To me when i was watching 1st , I thought wow this guy could be on Cena and Punks level soon, his unbeaten streak went 30 odd matchs and then the 1st crack in WWE's booking showed , He was screwed by Punk and Brad Maddox with a low blow, In fairness to Ryback though these two should have been kept apart longer , But still even though his streak was gone Ryback was kept extremely strong as he shellshocked Punk on top of the cage and it left an awesome visual of Ryback standing on the Cell chanting Feed Me More as the PPV closed

So it was still looking good enough for Ryback, That was until the Shield happend , He was put in another needless title match at Survivor Series with Cena and Punk , But the shield ruined it (awesomely i might add) by debuting and attacking Ryback , This continued on Raw and other PPVs up until the Rumble where Ryback again looked strong, Now my problem is the way he was handled afterwards Ryback won 3 slammys and was then put in a nothing feud with Mark Henry at Wrestlemania , Which bafflingly he lost

The following night ...Rybacks face push was canned

Ryback turned heel on John Cena (death knell for most stars and so it was) Ryback never fully recovered to this day from that, What would i have done diffrently , I'd have kept him away from Punk, At Survivor series i'd have put him in a team match and have him come out the sole survivor, End the night with him standing along chanting feed me more

Then at Royal Rumble have him win the thing , eliminate 9 or so people much like Reigns did this year , Then and only then should he go after Punk and at Wresltemania , then you can have Punk constantly one up him that is until the Night of Wrestlemania where ya have Ryback win the World Title from Punk ending the night chanting FEED ME MORE and instantly you have a new star

Now on BJ post Muhammed Hussan was a great up and coming superstar, But there is only so much you can do with that terrorist/anti USA character and we're seeing it now again with Rusev, I think you started out well but then went off a bit mad , There is no chance in hell even back then that we were ever ever going to see a muslim character waterboard some one on Television the idea of it is crazy , I do think he would have been a great Heel , but not on the level you think , the evil foreigner shtick has been done to death, Even Rusev now is doing the same finisher the camel clutch

beakerjoe · 02-10-2014 11:25pm

Brian, Brian , Brian..... Your right, WWE creative have dropped the ball on numerous occasions over the past 3 decades, yet I feel you have dropped the ball here with your answer. Brian The question was ....and I quote "Which one angle that was dropped would you have liked to have seen play out.?" Fact is, the Ryback angle did play out. Maybe it was handled badly, or could have played out differently...but it did play out, it was never dropped. It ended with a Ryback heel turn.

In my opinion, Ryback was simply never ready anyway. Hell, he is still not ready to main event and I highly doubt he ever will. The guy has been wrestling in WWE for years (From tough enough, to Skip Sheffield to Ryback circa 2012) and is far, FAR, from ready to be the face of the company you would like to envision him as. He has a habit of being sloppy, careless and down right dangerous in the ring. It could be argued that hes barely ready for the TV time.

brianregan09 wrote: »

But despite this Ryback slowly got his own chant over FEED ME MORE so much so that the fans started chanting it in time with his entrance music which once again was awesome, To me when i was watching 1st , I thought wow this guy could be on Cena and Punks level soon, his unbeaten streak went 30 odd matchs and then the 1st crack in WWE's booking showed , He was screwed by Punk and Brad Maddox with a low blow, In fairness to Ryback though these two should have been kept apart longer , But still even though his streak was gone Ryback was kept extremely strong as he shellshocked Punk on top of the cage and it left an awesome visual of Ryback standing on the Cell chanting Feed Me More as the PPV closed

So it was still looking good enough for Ryback, That was until the Shield happend , He was put in another needless title match at Survivor Series with Cena and Punk , But the shield ruined it (awesomely i might add) by debuting and attacking Ryback , This continued on Raw and other PPVs up until the Rumble where Ryback again looked strong, Now my problem is the way he was handled afterwards Ryback won 3 slammys and was then put in a nothing feud with Mark Henry at Wrestlemania , Which bafflingly he lost.

You summed it up nicely how the angle played out. Sure like I said, in hindsight maybe he shouldn't have lost to Punk, Maybe he shouldn't have been put through a table by The Shield, Maybe he shouldn't have lost to Mizark. Maybe the angle should have played out differently, but it did play out and a conclusion was come to after a nearly a year.

I personally think its a good think the angle played out this way, Ryback ran out of steam, he couldn't wrestle safely or to a point where I enjoyed his work. His character was always gonna get stale after a loss, whether it happened at HITC or any time down the line. Ryback just reached that glass ceiling and hadn't got the skills to progress past it. After Ryback was stale, they gave him a heel turn and it didn't safe him. The character played out and if his decline didn't happen at the hand of Punk and Maddox at HITC, it would have happened soon after that.

He wasn't that over anyway, he wasn't at Daniel Bryan levels of overness that's for sure.

What would i have done diffrently , I'd have kept him away from Punk, At
Survivor series i'd have put him in a team match and have him come out the sole
survivor, End the night with him standing along chanting feed me more

After the loss at HITC, he lost his streak, and with it a lot of interest many fans had in his matches. With that streak he was always gonna struggle. I don't think your scenario would have saved him. His character was very 1 dimensional, very caveman esque if you will, and he hadn't found yet the natural charisma to back him up, which even Goldberg had.

Fact is Rybacks face push did play out and just not the way you wanted it to.

Mohammad Hussans however was dropped abruptly and didn't get a chance. Ryback did.

Now on BJ post Muhammed Hussan was a great up and coming superstar, But there is
only so much you can do with that terrorist/anti USA character and we're seeing
it now again with Rusev, I think you started out well but then went off a bit
mad , There is no chance in hell even back then that we were ever ever going to
see a muslim character waterboard some one on Television the idea of it is crazy
, I do think he would have been a great Heel , but not on the level you think ,
the evil foreigner shtick has been done to death, Even Rusev now is doing the
same finisher the camel clutch

Just because Rusev and Hussan have the same finisher and similarities in their gimmick, doesn't mean they are the same. Rusev is more like Umaga, a speechless monster which acts more like an unstoppable hired goon, where as Hussan is his own man with his own character to back him up without the use of a manager. Hes more in the vain of Sgt Slaughter, but better in the ring and more evolved in his character and could easily be pushed in similar fashion to Slaughter, except Hussan can wrestle decent matches without being gassed like Slaughter. Look how Slaughter played out, I believe Hussan would have even more legs than the Sarge in WM7 era and have much better matches.

Like I said anyway, Fact is Rybacks face push did play out, Hussans didn't. We will never know what would have happened with Mohammad Hussans and his terrorist reign of terror, but we all know what happened with Ryback

brianregan09 · 05-10-2014 5:06pm

I think alot of the love for Hassan is similar to that for when a celbrity dies or similar , Take Heath Ledger's portrayel as the Joker , Yes it was great but was it one of the best performances of all time ..short answer no

I guess what im getting at is Hassan is remembered fondly because of the angle not playing out , I don't think if it had carried on it'd be nailed on success like you think, A big part of Hassan's character was Daivari or what ever his name was, he was essentialy playing a cruiser weight version of Hassan after he was gone and he floundered badly before eventually heading to TNA to even less success

Now i'm not saying Hassan would be have went down that far , But I think if the angle was allowed to play out I think Hassan would not have reached main event , the Undertaker at the time was still a massive competing every week attraction and there is no way Hassan would have gone over him,

The reason i mentioned Rusev is like i said theres only a certain amount of mileage that you can get out of Evil Foreigners for lack of a better term, Umaga is way diffrent from Rusev, Umaga never mentioned usa or even let on to be from somewhere else he was just a monster among men, Where as Rusev, Iron Sheik , Hassan Nikolai Volkoff all these guys have, Had an Anti USA agenda even Slaughter like you say did , But that gimmick can only take you so far and thats my whole point , the fact that Mark Magnus couldn't recover and come back with another character tells alot for me , The saying talent rises to the top no matter what the circumstances ...Well what happened Hassan then , There's been tonnes of guys who have been repackaged and succeeded

Which brings me nicely around to Ryback, Now you say the guy was clumsy, dangerous and couldn't work....Remind you of anyone ? Cena when he 1st won the title he was notoriously novice even with the title its been noted by HHH, Taker and others on interviews, So yeah Ryback was dodgy but he could have been given the time to grow the fact of the matter is coming up to that Hell in a Cell PPV Ryback was ready to explode

Now he was over , Not as over as Daniel Bryan at the height of the YES movement , But i never mentioned him ,At the top you had a fantastic Heel in CM Punk and at the time Bryan was still in team hell no or similar , So along comes Ryback with a great look, a great catchphrase and like that he was over , Wheter you like it or not, If Ryback had gone on to take the title off Punk at Hell in the Cell that night , He'd still be up there competing

The dropped ball was Rybacks Face run WWE dropped , But not only did they drop it , They slowly sucked the life and momentum out of his character to help Punk

Bounty Hunter · 05-10-2014 6:08pm

Poll added

beakerjoe · 06-10-2014 11:35am

brianregan09 wrote: »

I think alot of the love for Hassan is similar to that for when a celbrity dies or similar , Take Heath Ledger's portrayel as the Joker , Yes it was great but was it one of the best performances of all time ..short answer no

Ah Its been years, maybe some think Ledgers portrayal of the Joker is over rated (I dont, its brilliant) but thats another debate for another day. Hussan wasnt given a chance to really show either way, hence why Id love to see it played out.

I guess what im getting at is Hassan is remembered fondly because of the angle not playing out , I don't think if it had carried on it'd be nailed on success like you think, A big part of Hassan's character was Daivari or what ever his name was, he was essentialy playing a cruiser weight version of Hassan after he was gone and he floundered badly before eventually heading to TNA to even less success

No angle is a nailed on success, especially with WWE creatives lax approach but it looked like it had a bucket load of potential. Comparing Davari's character to Hussan is a bad comparison at the best of time. Davari was nothing more than Hussans cowardly lackey. Hussan was the big cheese, without him the angle wouldnt work.

Now i'm not saying Hassan would be have went down that far , But I think if the angle was allowed to play out I think Hassan would not have reached main event , the Undertaker at the time was still a massive competing every week attraction and there is no way Hassan would have gone over him,

Taker has a habit of putting over younger deserving talent, at the time he put over the likes of Brock, Jeff Hardy, Nathan Jones for god sake. With teh right angle, Taker could put Hussan over and you're right, Taker was a big attraction.... Beating him would have put Hussan on the map.

The reason i mentioned Rusev is like i said theres only a certain amount of mileage that you can get out of Evil Foreigners for lack of a better term, Umaga is way diffrent from Rusev, Umaga never mentioned usa or even let on to be from somewhere else he was just a monster among men, Where as Rusev, Iron Sheik , Hassan Nikolai Volkoff all these guys have, Had an Anti USA agenda even Slaughter like you say did , But that gimmick can only take you so far and thats my whole point , the fact that Mark Magnus couldn't recover and come back with another character tells alot for me , The saying talent rises to the top no matter what the circumstances ...Well what happened Hassan then , There's been tonnes of guys who have been repackaged and succeeded

Once the gimmick lasts upto a year, maybe more, its enough. Its all its needed. Hussan was on the rise and could have been the top heel going into Wrestlemania in a somewhat refreshing angle at the time. Ryback was always 1 defeat from being stale and boring with his undefeated streak and sure enough it happened. Hussan could of went for at least a year, Ryback didnt even get that half of that in reality.

Which brings me nicely around to Ryback, Now you say the guy was clumsy, dangerous and couldn't work....Remind you of anyone ? Cena when he 1st won the title he was notoriously novice even with the title its been noted by HHH, Taker and others on interviews, So yeah Ryback was dodgy but he could have been given the time to grow the fact of the matter is coming up to that Hell in a Cell PPV Ryback was ready to explode

Cena is better than Ryback. End of. Cena improved, Ryback still hasnt. Cena had the drive to do well, while Rybacks off screen character at the time of his push always seemed like he had an undeserved sense of accomplishment.

Now he was over , Not as over as Daniel Bryan at the height of the YES movement , But i never mentioned him ,At the top you had a fantastic Heel in CM Punk and at the time Bryan was still in team hell no or similar , So along comes Ryback with a great look, a great catchphrase and like that he was over , Wheter you like it or not, If Ryback had gone on to take the title off Punk at Hell in the Cell that night , He'd still be up there competing

Like I said he was over, but he was always 1 loss away from being just another guy. And when the angle played out, this is exactly how he has wound up. If he had taken the title, the months that followed would be painful to watch. He'd lose steam and become stale quick as his one dimensional character hadnt the legs to be a top guy in the modern era. Maybe in the days of Hogan and Warrior, but not now. The right decision was made to not give Ryback the title IMO

The dropped ball was Rybacks Face run WWE dropped , But not only did they drop it , They slowly sucked the life and momentum out of his character to help Punk

Its debatable whether or not the ball was perhaps dropped in some ways on Ryback, but Hussans never got a chance to run with his ball, it was taken away.

ATH First round match 6 - Beakerjoe vs BrianRegan

Who progresses to the next round? 10 votes

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