Does your local Garda no longer seem interested? Maybe this is why.

Schindlers Pissed · 22-10-2014 7:00pm

desertcircus wrote: »

If there's a causal link between harsher sentences and fewer crimes, then there should be hard statistical evidence. The total lack of any on this thread so far leads me to suspect that harsh sentences aren't the solution people tend to think.

I don't really care about rehabilitation. Not an ounce. They singled out two off duty Gardai and beat them into a state of unconsciousness……left them with lifelong injuries.

They don't deserve rehab, or sentences which will give them another chance. They need to be taught a lesson, thrown into prison and bust rocks or on a chain gang………I really don't give a ****e……..you know why?

Because as long as they are busting rocks they aren't busting my wife, or my parents, or the countless great friends I have who are Guards…….people just like that couple who were attacked.

Let them rot.

FGR · 22-10-2014 7:16pm

To all the do gooders who think that harsher sentencing doesn't statistically help 'reform' the criminals:

How about sparing a thought for the victim? How about considering that both he/she and the general public may be safer during the time these criminals are locked away?

I believe this is an ethos used in the US and it's enforced vigorously. Keeping offenders off the streets stops them having opportunities to re-offend. Letting them out without punishment is only an invitation to incite more crime.

Besides. More time in custody would allow for more courses/incentives to (possibly) help them in becoming better people.

Potential-Monke · 22-10-2014 9:37pm

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

Is S.19 of the Public Order Act never used in these cases?

It couldn't in this specific case, as the members were off duty. Which is funny, because if an off-duty member does something and ends up in court, the fact that they're a Garda comes into the decision making. And by funny, i mean double standards.

wotswattage · 22-10-2014 11:51pm

desertcircus wrote: »

If there's a causal link between harsher sentences and fewer crimes, then there should be hard statistical evidence. The total lack of any on this thread so far leads me to suspect that harsh sentences aren't the solution people tend to think.

How about some hard statistical evidence that justifies not having harsh sentences?? You can't demand people put up evidence to back up their opinion while providing none to back up yours. Well you can if you're trolling...

Personally I don't think Gardai should be protected by different laws (harsher sentences) to normal citizens. Everyone should be protected by the law from being battered by a group of scumbags not knowing if you are going to be beaten to death or not.

Whether putting someone in prison or not 'rehabilitates' them is a matter for another debate, but not sending someone to prison at all -allowing them to walk the streets and face the victims the day after they have been convicted of an assault like the one in this thread is completely wrong.

Potential-Monke · 22-10-2014 11:57pm

wotswattage wrote: »

Personally I don't think Gardai should be protected by different laws (harsher sentences) to normal citizens. Everyone should be protected by the law from being battered by a group of scumbags not knowing if you are going to be beaten to death or not.

We're not looking to be treated differently, we are looking to be protected in doing a job that puts our safety at risk on a daily basis. And the reason we're looking for specific laws in relation to attacks on ES personnel is that it would be a deterrent to scum who target us for the simple fact of being in that job. We too should have the right to carry out our duties in a safe environment, and articles and sentences like this just puts the image out there that it's ok to attack us, as nothing will happen to you for it. Because that's where it is, the current view is that we're expected to get assaulted and to just put up with it.

Chief87 · 23-10-2014 2:39pm

Liberals coming out of the woodwork again..it's unreal.

How would you like the head bet off ya over the weekend coming only to see the criminal out the next day?

CramCycle · 23-10-2014 3:55pm

That judge has a serious detachment from reality, a 3 year hard sentence (ie imposed) should have been handed down (minimum, i would be all for a 10year minimum for premeditated assault that goes that far) for anyone suffering that sort of an attack. The fact that it is a member of the ES, I think would add on another 5, if judges send out signals like this, criminals and scumbags will give even less of a sh*t about how to behave in society (I am in no way insinuating they give a sh*t now).

Topper Harley · 23-10-2014 9:20pm

How about, instead of harsh sentences for these scumbags (which apparently serve no purpose), we give them financial incentives not to commit crimes. Enough so they can live a life of luxury. That'll keep everyone else safe and keep the bleeding-heart liberals happy too.

TheNog · 23-10-2014 11:27pm

Topper Harley wrote: »

How about, instead of harsh sentences for these scumbags (which apparently serve no purpose), we give them financial incentives not to commit crimes. Enough so they can live a life of luxury. That'll keep everyone else safe and keep the bleeding-heart liberals happy too.

Please tell me I am missing the sarcasm here

ectoraige · 23-10-2014 11:39pm

It's so infuriating, the "I didn't know they were Gardaí" defence doesn't really stack up with the shouts of "Garda Scum", does it?

The whole argument of detention vs. rehab is a joke in the context of the Irish prison system. We don't know the meaning of rehab. We almost need a wholly separate rehabilitation service to work alongside the prison service, such is the level of change required. Anybody who is sentenced, custodial or suspended, needs targeted supports to stop them from reoffending. Under such a system then you could perhaps understand a judge suspending sentences on the basis of no history of violence. But we don't have such a system so taking such an approach in sentencing is farcical.

Detention can do three things:
1) prevent the person from being a continued threat to society;
2) make the person not want to get caught again;
3) deter others from doing the same thing.

If people aren't handed lengthy custodial sentences, then it's less likely to achieve any of these things. This is why we see high levels of recidivism.

I'm a bleeding-heart liberal who thinks that the main goal is to ensure these people never repeat what they did, and that can best be achieved through a proper, effective, and coordinated rehabilitative service. I'm also a realist though and know we don't have one so the only option is to lock the f*ckers up.

If we're not going to do the rehab part then stiff custodial sentences is the only option.

Potential-Monke · 24-10-2014 1:13am

Topper Harley wrote: »

How about, instead of harsh sentences for these scumbags (which apparently serve no purpose), we give them financial incentives not to commit crimes. Enough so they can live a life of luxury. That'll keep everyone else safe and keep the bleeding-heart liberals happy too.

They'd only end up shooting it up their arms or snorting it up their noses, and they'd be out robbing for more money again. They'd probably OD on it... wait... you might be onto something...

Topper Harley · 24-10-2014 11:03am

TheNog wrote: »

Please tell me I am missing the sarcasm here

It would appear so.

I should have really added a few emoticons.

horsebox7 · 24-10-2014 2:21pm

If society sees the justice system acting leniently it may make society think about taking the law into their own hands.

BaronVon · 24-10-2014 2:54pm

Just to add fuel to the fire......

An Offaly man who slammed a garda into a shop front, causing her severe injuries, has been ordered to carry out 240 hours community service.

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/no-jail-for-man-who-left-female-garda-with-severe-injuries-647521.html

It seems beating up Guards, on or off duty, is fair game :rolleyes:

24-10-2014 2:55pm

It's lucky that sentencing like this is a rarity. ðŸ˜’

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/no-jail-for-man-who-left-female-garda-with-severe-injuries-647521.html

Potential-Monke · 24-10-2014 3:20pm

I was just about to come in an post that. I'm ****ing fuming!!!

Also, and i hope i'm allowed to post this, but please sign and share:

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/justice-for-garda-lucy-mcloughlin

sdanseo · 24-10-2014 5:02pm

desertcircus wrote: »

Another thread filled with people demanding harsher penalties, another thread devoid of evidence that harsher penalties do any good.

I could get on board with this statement in terms of life without parole for anything less than cold-blooded murder and a few other particularly heinous crimes. Saying it in those sweeping terms makes no sense, though.

If you can beat a (female) Garda so badly that they are afraid to perform part of their job and not spend time in a prison then there is a clear lack of deterrent. The scumbag class in this country are fueled by judges who give light sentences. (And even for those who do go to jail, anyone who watched the recent show about the Dóchas centre will know exactly how much of a joke the system there is)

The whole sentencing system is a complete farce - which surprises and worries me because judges usually look down on everyone around them. One would think they would be more predisposed to harsher sentences than lenient ones, something that only means the problem is in fact even worse.

Topper Harley · 24-10-2014 5:51pm

horsebox7 wrote: »

If society sees the justice system acting leniently it may make society think about taking the law into their own hands.

I'm Batman. You could be my assistant. Would you like that? Would you like to ride with Batman.

On a slightly more serious note though, I'd love to see a bit of vigilante justice but I just know that vigilante mobs, even if somewhat professional and controlled initially, would end up being an even bigger problem.

TallGlass · 24-10-2014 6:51pm

Sorry to break the bad news here but these lads more than likely hit the pub after that sentencing and had a great laugh. Telling all there mates what happened and how nothing harsh happened to them.

Justice in this country is a joke. Sure look at the Minister dose she honestly look like she has any interest in what shes doing, every time I see her it's like shes saying to herself 'why did Enda put me over this ****e, I had a handy number over the children'. She should be out everyday pushing Enda and his crew to up sort the sentencing out in this country.

So we have these fellas mates telling there mates then they'll be thinking sure he got away with boxing the head of him and his missus, wonder what I would get away with.

What if it had of been the other way around? If it was a gang of Garda on a nightout and boxed the head of some criminal and his missus? There be almighty uproar.

Another joke of a sentence was that Armed Robbery in Louth where a gun was pointed at an off duty Garda and he was told to let go of his mate or he would 'blow his ****ing head off'. Let alone the fact he just robbed a bank he has now pointed a gun a Garda off duty or not more than likely the Garda had now identified himself as so. So what do we give this gouger with 75 previous convictions? 6 years.

Do you know something I am surprised the prisons are even full it's not like the judges hand out proper sentences.

And if it is a case of money. Don't do this community service bollix. For 5 years between 7am and 11pm at night a 8 hour shift 5 days out of the 7 for 5/6 years free of charge for whoever wants him, tell you he won't be acting the harry again doing a stretch of free labour like that. Only thing these fellas don't like is working and for free at that. If he messes it up, back inside for the rest of his term.

HeidiHeidi · 24-10-2014 7:11pm

TallGlass wrote: »

Sorry to break the bad news here but these lads more than likely hit the pub after that sentencing and had a great laugh. Telling all there mates what happened and how nothing harsh happened to them.

Justice in this country is a joke. Sure look at the Minister dose she honestly look like she has any interest in what shes doing, every time I see her it's like shes saying to herself 'why did Enda put me over this ****e, I had a handy number over the children'. She should be out everyday pushing Enda and his crew to up sort the sentencing out in this country.

So we have these fellas mates telling there mates then they'll be thinking sure he got away with boxing the head of him and his missus, wonder what I would get away with.

What if it had of been the other way around? If it was a gang of Garda on a nightout and boxed the head of some criminal and his missus? There be almighty uproar.

Another joke of a sentence was that Armed Robbery in Louth where a gun was pointed at an off duty Garda and he was told to let go of his mate or he would 'blow his ****ing head off'. Let alone the fact he just robbed a bank he has now pointed a gun a Garda off duty or not more than likely the Garda had now identified himself as so. So what do we give this gouger with 75 previous convictions? 6 years.

Do you know something I am surprised the prisons are even full it's not like the judges hand out proper sentences.

And if it is a case of money. Don't do this community service bollix. For 5 years between 7am and 11pm at night a 8 hour shift 5 days out of the 7 for 5/6 years free of charge for whoever wants him, tell you he won't be acting the harry again doing a stretch of free labour like that. Only thing these fellas don't like is working and for free at that. If he messes it up, back inside for the rest of his term.

This x 1000

tayto lover · 24-10-2014 7:23pm

Please lads do not call anyone a "scumbag". It's a horrible word.

Anyone who assaults a garda should suffer the full penalty allowed by the courts.
Judges who treat assaults on police officers lightly are letting the country down.

Potential-Monke · 24-10-2014 8:09pm

tayto lover wrote: »

Please lads do not call anyone a "scumbag". It's a horrible word.

What if the shoe matches the foot? Yes it's a horrible word, and i reserve it for horrible people, those who have no consideration for others, who rob, steal and assault for no purpose other than their own personal gain.

24-10-2014 8:49pm

tayto lover wrote: »

Please lads do not call anyone a "scumbag". It's a horrible word.

I think I'll reserve the right to call people what I want.

Old diesel · 25-10-2014 7:30pm

Its important i think that the judiciary, Government send out a STRONG signal that assaults on Gardaí and other emergency services WILL NOT be tolerated - and to back that up with PROPER sentencing for the perpetrators.

When are we going to start grasping the concept of actually treating emergency services men and women PROPERLY in this country - backing them up - treating fairly - and SUPPORTING THEM.

Behind the uniforms are someones Dad, Mum, brother, sister, husband, wife, son or daughter.

Unfortunately - officialdom doesn't seem to grasp this and the idea of a Garda, Paramedic/Advanced Paramedic, coastguard people, RNLI crews and others just being names on a sheet - or an id, PIN or badge no - that needs to change.

AlekSmart · 25-10-2014 7:35pm

tayto lover wrote: »

Please lads do not call anyone a "scumbag". It's a horrible word.

Anyone who assaults a garda should suffer the full penalty allowed by the courts.
Judges who treat assaults on police officers lightly are letting the country down.

A "Horrible" word indeed,yet bellowed repeatedly across Utube over the past few weeks as Gardai attempt to Police the divide in the Irish Water situation.

What terminology,I wonder,should we apply to the occupants of the VW Polo involved in the death of Diana Harton yesterday ?

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/fatal-crash-car-was-chased-after-crime-spree-30691770.html

The driver of the VW Polo which smashed into a Citroen on the M7 motorway, killing the driver Diana Harton (43) on Thursday night, has more than 20 criminal convictions for car theft and burglaries.

Another occupant of the car has been arrested several times in connection with robberies and criminal charges are pending.

Three of those involved in the crash were on bail for offences linked to robberies and burglaries.

What terminology would be appropriate in describing the various learned members of the Judiciary who have facilitated these individuals in their pursuit of the criminal holy-grail ?

We are reminded quite regularly and at some length of the very high standards of our Judiciary,all eminent within their profession,all selected for their outstanding understanding of the principles of Justice and knowledge of the Law.

Reading the accounts of the Mayo trial,any reasonable member of the general public could be forgiven for questioning whether Judge Rory McCabe could be considered to meet those standards ?

Four Adults,between 21 and 31 years of age,are found guilty of a serious assault on other persons (The status of the victims is,IMO Irrelevant).

The guilty parties already have significant pre-existing previous convictions...

Barrett has nine previous convictions, and two pending charges for misuse of drugs and burglary.
David Leonard has eleven previous convictions, the majority of which are public order offences while David Skeffington has seven previous convictions, all road traffic matters but has also incurred two further convictions since this incident, namely a public order offence and a misuse of drugs charge.

Notwithstanding the elequent pleadings of the various Counsel involved,it is EXTREMELY difficult to find justification for the sentencing decision of Judge McCabe.

It could be argued that Judicial decisions,as incredible as this,NEED to be immediately challenged by the State (It is argueable as to whether the DPP is the appropriate agent to do this),with the convicted persons held in custody until the matter is decided.

Nobody is suggesting that Gardai and Courts should ALWAYS be in sync,as the purpose of the Court is to be an impartial interpreter of the law,but judgements such as the Mayo one stand apart as being wildly out of kilter with any expected principle of natural justice ?

Timmyctc · 25-10-2014 7:38pm

foreign wrote: »

It's lucky that sentencing like this is a rarity. ðŸ˜’

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/no-jail-for-man-who-left-female-garda-with-severe-injuries-647521.html

Potential-Monke wrote: »

I was just about to come in an post that. I'm ****ing fuming!!!

Also, and i hope i'm allowed to post this, but please sign and share:

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/justice-for-garda-lucy-mcloughlin

its okay though, from the article.

The court noted today that to his credit, Carroll wrote a letter of apology to the garda.

Tigger · 28-10-2014 2:15am

Are the judiciary really sending out the message that beating up a couple of Guards on a night out is a non custodial offence.

I believe that this will be understood by those that might target the Guards as practically an invitation.

Christ!: if there isn't respect for the "guardians of the peace " the what will we have ?

beauf · 28-10-2014 2:24am

Words fail me in this thread. The system is broken.

mike hilux · 28-10-2014 2:48am

About proof as to harsher sentences being beneficial. Bring it back to one of the most simple things we all learned growing up. If I hit my brother and he hit me back harder then I'll think twice about it next time.

You don't step out in front of a speeding bus because it may kill you and also while that is happening you can be sure the bus won't show leniency or have any sympathy in it for you. That's why you don't do it.

People who repeatedly go out and commit violent crimes should be made an example of. I feel many view prison as a right of passage. This shows that the system is flawed but doesn't mean that a harsher sentence won't do any good but maybe the conditions that they serve under should be more suiting to their crime. Instead of a bad boy social club where they sit around telling stories of what they did to get there.

JillyQ · 28-10-2014 2:52am

McGaggs wrote: »

I thought we still had the death penalty on the books for murdering a guard?

So it seems to be:
Kill a guard: get killed
Almost kill a guard: pick up some litter

that was abolished about 10 years ago

gerire · 28-10-2014 2:29pm

Has everyone forgotten this already? This government has already told you what they think of you and your colleagues.

I remember at the time the most ridiculous of arguments being thrown out, sh1t like "if I'm drunk and accidentally punch a guard who's arresting me do I deserve jail"
Well yes mate you do, you don't accidentally punch someone and you knew what they were working at, so tough.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/5-year-jail-plan-for-garda-attacks-rejected-210064.html

The Government has decided to reject legislation from Fianna Fáil which calls for an automatic five-year prison sentence for assaults on emergency service personnel.

The bill, introduced by Fianna Fáil justice spokesman Dara Calleary, sought to bring in a mandatory minimum five-year sentence for such offences.

“We are all very familiar with the very sad scenes of drink and drug-fuelled violence in towns, cities, and localities across the country which emergency workers have to confront every day and night,” Mr Calleary told the Dáil.

“The very dark side of drink and drug abuse, and general antisocial behaviour is the manner in which workers who are trying to keep people and communities safe are being increasingly targeted.”

Mr Calleary cited figures suggesting there were more than 800 assaults each year on gardaí doing their duty.

“That figure does not represent the full picture as many gardaí do not report assaults,” he said.

“I am not foolish enough to think that this bill will deter anybody from assaulting an emergency worker.

“It probably will not, but what it will do is send out a signal that as a legislature and country we will not stand for that kind of assault and that we will give emergency workers extra security and protection in law.”

However, Government chief whip Paul Kehoe said the Fine Gael-Labour coalition would be opposing the legislation.

While he welcomed the good intentions behind the bill, Mr Kehoe said there was already comprehensive legislation in place to deal with such offences.

This included the Non-Fatal Offences Against The Persons Act 1997, which provided for penalties of up to 10 years’ imprisonment for an offence of threats to kill or cause serious harm, and up to life imprisonment for causing serious harm, he said.

Similarly, the Criminal Justice Act 2004 provided explicit protection for emergency workers in regard to assaults or threats to assault.

Turner · 28-10-2014 9:47pm

And again....

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/dad-of-five-threatened-garda-with-knife-while-covered-in-his-own-blood-court-told-30700388.html

Where are you GRA?

source · 28-10-2014 10:02pm

Turner wrote: »

And again....

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/dad-of-five-threatened-garda-with-knife-while-covered-in-his-own-blood-court-told-30700388.html

Where are you GRA?

He was on bail!!!???

What the ****!?! How can it even be justified to give a gou a suspended sentence for something like this committed while on bail?

This verdict hurts my brain even more so than the others, which were already unbelievable.

JillyQ · 28-10-2014 10:48pm

Correct me if im wrong, but i thought that if you were out on bail & committed an offence your bail should be revoked?

Zambia · 29-10-2014 8:55am

JillyQ wrote: »

Correct me if im wrong, but i thought that if you were out on bail & committed an offence your bail should be revoked?

Garda still have to apply to the courts to have you remanded,

I assume

The level of offending described here is horrendous.

source · 29-10-2014 9:02am

Zambia wrote: »

Garda still have to apply to the courts to have you remanded,

I assume

The level of offending described here is horrendous.

Yes but if he was already on bail then he was bound to the peace. Which means a suspended sentence should not have been considered.

tayto lover · 29-10-2014 5:26pm

AlekSmart wrote: »

A "Horrible" word indeed,yet bellowed repeatedly across Utube over the past few weeks as Gardai attempt to Police the divide in the Irish Water situation.

What terminology,I wonder,should we apply to the occupants of the VW Polo involved in the death of Diana Harton yesterday ?

Killers? Criminals? These words actually describe people.
Scumbag is just an ugly word without meaning.
A bit like "joyrider" - nothing joyous about it.

CramCycle · 29-10-2014 6:07pm

tayto lover wrote: »

Scumbag is just an ugly word without meaning.

Sorry to be a smarta$$ about this but it has meaning

Google: a contemptible or objectionable person.
Cambridge dictionary: a very unpleasant person who has done something dishonest or unacceptable

It is at its core an emotive word, when the descriptions above are too lacking in the picture we wish to paint when describing the people previously mentioned.

.243 · 29-10-2014 8:52pm

tayto lover wrote: »

Please lads do not call anyone a "scumbag". It's a horrible word.

its a horrible word specifically designed for horrible people

TallGlass · 30-10-2014 9:45am

Turner wrote: »

And again....

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/dad-of-five-threatened-garda-with-knife-while-covered-in-his-own-blood-court-told-30700388.html

Where are you GRA?

Are these judges for real? I say it must be hard to land yourself in prison.

Well, he defiantly won't be coming to the attention of the courts or Garda again :rolleyes:

ratracer · 30-10-2014 12:20pm

TallGlass wrote: »

Are these judges for real? I say it must be hard to land yourself in prison.

Well, he defiantly won't be coming to the attention of the courts or Garda again :rolleyes:

I wouldn't agree that it's hard to land in prison, it happens if ya don't pay your TV licence!!! Beating the life out of someone or breaking bail conditions doesn't qualify though.....

kub · 31-10-2014 1:18am

It is high time now I think that the GRA instructed it's members not to appear in cases where some of these people that class themselves as judges are sitting.

The judicial system in this country needs a good kick in the arse.

Here again tonight I see what appears to have been an attempted tiger kidnapping in Longford, reports have stated that there had been a pursuit and a Garda car crashed into the what I suppose is the criminals means of escape.......then I hear that GSOC are investigating. .....what a joke.

CB19Kevo · 31-10-2014 3:58pm

Yet again the courts have failed our police force.
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/travellers-jailed-for-attack-on-garda%C3%AD-at-halting-site-1.1982351

And where the hell is armed response in Dublin,ERU should be for terror incidents or dealing with armed standoffs,What's needed in Dublin is 6 ASU'S on 24/7.

kub · 31-10-2014 11:18pm

I always assumed that Gardai only went onto halting sites in large numbers.

bravestar · 01-11-2014 8:27am

kub wrote: »

I always assumed that Gardai only went onto halting sites in large numbers.

Why did you assume that? It would make day to day policing in certain areas quite difficult.

kub · 02-11-2014 12:19am

bravestar wrote: »

Why did you assume that? It would make day to day policing in certain areas quite difficult.

Based on a few conversations i have had with serving Gardai.

punisher5112 · 02-11-2014 12:22am

Went into haulting site in industrial estate with a bus when 2 sh1ts shot out 2 windows and ran back in.

They were in shock and nobody knew what to do but apologise as they didnt wand gardai called.

bravestar · 02-11-2014 9:24am

kub wrote: »

Based on a few conversations i have had with serving Gardai.

Well Gardai go in on a regular basis without a small army. Alot of it depends on why you are going in and what kind of relationship you have with them. Contrary to popular belief, it's not a suicide mission. That being said, you do have to stay sharp, just in case.

TheNog · 02-11-2014 12:46pm

kub wrote: »

I always assumed that Gardai only went onto halting sites in large numbers.

It really does depend on the relationship Gardai have with members of the Travelling Community.

02-11-2014 1:48pm

TheNog wrote: »

It really does depend on the relationship Gardai have with members of the Travelling Community.

Would that not be the other way around?

Does your local Garda no longer seem interested? Maybe this is why.

Comments