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Electoral Lists 1937-1964 taken down

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  • 14-08-2016 3:54pm
    #1
    Mollymoo19
    Registered Users Posts: 69 ✭✭


    Anyone hear why the Dublin city electoral rolls (1937-1964) have been taken down? or, if access is to be restored in the future? I used them only last week without any problems. The 1908-1915 lists remain, so I hope it's not a 'privacy' issue. These lists have been most helpful.


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    #2
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,852 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    I'd be almost certain its a trumped up privacy issue. These have been available to view in person forever, just like the registration indices - and without the charge the registration indices have.

    They were unfortunately of little help to me with my mostly Dublin County Council residing family but if you had a city family or were trying to work down a tree to the current day, etc they could have been invaluable. Back to needing to go to Pearse Street it is...


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    #3
    pinkypinky
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,623 Mod ✭✭✭✭pinkypinky


    Hmm, will have to look into it. The modern electoral register is online too so I don't know why that would be a privacy issue. 1964 is a long time ago.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



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    #4
    Hermy
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 11,314 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hermy


    Whatever next???

    Genealogy Forum Mod



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    #5
    Coolnabacky1873
    Registered Users Posts: 556 ✭✭✭Coolnabacky1873


    Yup.

    Emailed Dublin City Archive and got this response:

    "Thank you for your e-mail. We were obliged by the Data Protection Commission to take the database down.
    I apologize for the inconvenience caused to you but it is outside our control."

    Absolutely Crazy. As pointed out above, I can check the current day register for any county council in Ireland at http://checktheregister.ie/


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    #6
    pinkypinky
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,623 Mod ✭✭✭✭pinkypinky


    I think the DPC are out to get genealogists! Glad I took the time to investigate all my Dublin ancestors on that database in the past.

    Is it still accessible in the reading room, I wonder? I have emailed to ask that and also to find out if there's a way to appeal it.

    The youngest people on that register would be 73 now, so the vast majority are likely dead.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



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    #7
    Coolnabacky1873
    Registered Users Posts: 556 ✭✭✭Coolnabacky1873


    pinkypinky wrote: »
    Is it still accessible in the reading room, I wonder?

    Yes, the same email said the database would be available in the reading room.


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    #8
    pinkypinky
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,623 Mod ✭✭✭✭pinkypinky


    Just to add: DCLA did make representations to try reversing the decision but DPC said it would be likely to "cause distress to living persons".

    I feel a strongly worded letter coming on.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



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    #9
    Mollymoo19
    Registered Users Posts: 69 ✭✭Mollymoo19


    It justs gives the address of adults 50++ years ago. What kind of egit could find that distressing?


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    #10
    panchosanza
    Registered Users Posts: 20 ✭panchosanza


    Online public-access databases are vulnerable to web-scraping. There are ways to mitigate that but you need to hire IT people to implement and certify them; easier and cheaper to just take the database offline. Best-case scenario is they are only offline temporarily while the IT people are beefing them up; but I wouldn't hold my breath.


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    #11
    pinkypinky
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,623 Mod ✭✭✭✭pinkypinky


    I don't see what use it would be to those with malicious intent to know where someone's grandparents lived 50-80 years ago.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



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    #12
    pedroeibar1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,108 ✭✭✭pedroeibar1


    pinkypinky wrote: »
    I don't see what use it would be to those with malicious intent to know where someone's grandparents lived 50-80 years ago.

    Of course it has a use !;)
    Just image the havoc that could be caused by retirement clubs of octogenarian web-hackers scraping address data to gain several old age pensions. Hordes of Zimmer-framed individuals thronging the counters at Social Welfare centres demanding cash - the DPC views that as a serious security risk because it could create mayhem.:D:D:D


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    #13
    pinkypinky
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,623 Mod ✭✭✭✭pinkypinky


    Claire Santry's report on the matter:

    http://www.irishgenealogynews.com/2016/08/data-protection-concerns-force-dublin.html?m=1

    Genealogy Forum Mod



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    #14
    shanew
    Registered Users Posts: 2,777 ✭✭✭shanew


    as far as I know for most areas, you need to already know a full name & address to check the current register, which is probably why it passes data-protection


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    #15
    Jellybaby1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,108 ✭✭✭Jellybaby1


    From Claire Santry's blog:

    "As I understand it, this instance of the DPC getting involved in the removal of online access to records has come about rather more organically than the last, which saw online availability of the General Register Office's birth, marriage and death indexes seriously curtailed in July 2014. That earlier occasion came about as the result of a complaint from one person with a vested interest in the records being kept offline."

    I would seriously love to know who that one person is! :mad:


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    #16
    spurious
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 27,138 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    I'm loathe to mention it in case someone sets the DPA on them, but a certain red coloured directory is available online for a couple of 'recent' years, 1969 and 1986 (I think).


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    #17
    Jellybaby1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,108 ✭✭✭Jellybaby1


    My brain can't work out 'red directory' at the moment.


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    #18
    spurious
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 27,138 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    Thom's.


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    #19
    pinkypinky
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,623 Mod ✭✭✭✭pinkypinky


    Shush!

    I thought of listing other things in my email objecting but decided I didn't want to give them further ammunition.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



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    #20
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,852 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Jellybaby1 wrote: »
    From Claire Santry's blog:

    "As I understand it, this instance of the DPC getting involved in the removal of online access to records has come about rather more organically than the last, which saw online availability of the General Register Office's birth, marriage and death indexes seriously curtailed in July 2014. That earlier occasion came about as the result of a complaint from one person with a vested interest in the records being kept offline."

    I would seriously love to know who that one person is! :mad:

    I can take a guess, to be honest. there are various Firms that migHt have reasons to reduce access to Files, I think.
    spurious wrote: »
    Thom's.

    I assumed this: http://www.redbook.ie/index.php which used to be thrown in through peoples doors in the old days and now appears to be online only.


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    #21
    Jellybaby1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,108 ✭✭✭Jellybaby1


    spurious wrote: »
    Thom's.

    I'm an eejit. Of course! :o


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    #22
    pinkypinky
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,623 Mod ✭✭✭✭pinkypinky


    Woohoo! Coverage in the Irish Times letters' page.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/tourism-and-data-protection-1.2758219

    Genealogy Forum Mod



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    #23
    pinkypinky
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,623 Mod ✭✭✭✭pinkypinky


    Ahem.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/data-protection-gone-mad-1.2759499

    Genealogy Forum Mod



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    #24
    pinkypinky
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,623 Mod ✭✭✭✭pinkypinky


    Steven Smyrl has a good opinion piece this morning:

    http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/removal-of-dublin-electoral-database-unwarranted-1.2763459

    I like his argument about the people who gave their data to the electoral register canvasser never expecting it to be kept private.

    Unfortunately for balance, there's also a negative letter:

    http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/data-protection-and-electoral-registers-1.2763339

    Genealogy Forum Mod



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    #25
    Jellybaby1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,108 ✭✭✭Jellybaby1


    So presumably, if anyone has an old telephone directory, they will come and ask for it back! :( What next will we be hit with? History howareyah! :rolleyes:


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    #26
    Hermy
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 11,314 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hermy


    And what about the existing phone book? Surely that has to go too!!

    Genealogy Forum Mod



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    #27
    Jellybaby1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,108 ✭✭✭Jellybaby1


    Hermy wrote: »
    And what about the existing phone book? Surely that has to go too!!

    Yikes! Shush will ya! The walls have ears. :cool:


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    #28
    pinkypinky
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,623 Mod ✭✭✭✭pinkypinky


    Another letter today:

    http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/data-protection-and-an-informed-society-1.2765912

    Genealogy Forum Mod



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    #29
    pedroeibar1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,108 ✭✭✭pedroeibar1


    Odd letter that. Hard to know if the writer is for or agin the DPC . From reading Mr. Smyrl's opinion piece and what is posted on this thread, I'd add that no organization receiving an ‘advice’ from a powerful regulatory body has either the desire, skills, time or funds to debate the issue and receive that ‘advice’ as a command and simply 'shuts down' the site in question. Bullyboy tactics!


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    #30
    pedroeibar1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,108 ✭✭✭pedroeibar1


    And the row smoulders on..........
    http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/research-and-data-protection-1.2768512


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    #31
    Hermy
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 11,314 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hermy


    I think it's striking the gulf that exists between the UK and Ireland when it comes to making data available.

    One can view UK civil birth and marriage indexes up to 2005 and civil death indexes up to 2013.
    Electoral registers are available from 2002 to 2014 and will calendars up to 1995.

    In the meantime our data commissioner is worried about an electoral register from 50 years ago!

    Why is this so? Why the secrecy? Is it to do with our relatively small population size? Is there safety [anonymity] in numbers for those in the UK? Or is it just an Irish thing?

    Not too long ago we were being promised unfettered on line access to GRO records, and while that was never likely to happen, you'd now be left worrying about what the data commissioner will target next!

    Genealogy Forum Mod



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