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Suicide, where's the help?

  • 24-12-2009 6:16pm
    #1
    MagicMarker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭


    It turns out the son of my mother's friend hung himself yesterday. He was only 17 years old. Now, instead of opening presents together in the morning, they'll be crying over his coffin.

    Apparently he attempted suicide last week, and after a trip to the doctors he was prescribed drugs, which obviously were of no help.

    Being honest I don't know what kind of help was offered by the doctor, and I'm not criticizing any treatment he did receive, but it would seem there is just not enough immediate treatment available.

    Surely if someone attempts to take their own life, they should be considered a danger to themselves and be given immediate access to the right people with regards to therapy etc. If needs be they should be locked in a padded cell, it may seem extreme but if it saves their life then it's warranted imo!

    Merry Christmas:(


«1

Comments

  • #2
    My name is URL
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,069 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    Well it's possible to have someone commited to a mental institution if you can show that they're a danger to themselves or others.. were the guys family adamant that he was still suffering when talking to the doctors?

    It's very difficult to gauge situations when you're not close to them, so doctors can't be expected to make the right calls all of the time.. for all you know they guy told the docs that he was feeling better, and maybe convinced his family of the same

    I agree with you though, the system in place needs some big improvements


  • #3
    Richard Dower
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 21,634 ✭✭✭✭Richard Dower


    If someone wants kill themselves they'll find a way, most times (with men) there are no outward signs. The services in Ireland are shabby and very patchy. My sympathities to the family.


  • #4
    krudler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,788 ✭✭✭✭krudler


    Richard Dower wrote: »
    If someone wants kill themselves they'll find a way, most times (with men) there are no outward signs. The services in Ireland are shabby and very patchy. My sympathities to the family.

    agree with this, short of strapping someone to a chair and keeping watch on them 24/7 if they're set on ending things they will, sucks for the family at this time of year


  • #5
    Red_Marauder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,175 ✭✭✭Red_Marauder


    Richard Dower wrote: »
    If someone wants kill themselves they'll find a way, most times (with men) there are no outward signs. The services in Ireland are shabby and very patchy.

    Both so true. I know a guy personally who attempted suicide this time lst year. He was rushed to hospital and survived but allowed walk out of A&E next morning with no referrals to a psychologist or psychiatrist. When his family found out what had happened they took him to a GP, GP referred him for a HSE psych consultation. He never heard back from the HSE/ psychiatrist as he was supposed to, the family tried making follow up appointments with a counsellor but they just kept saying they were very busy. They still have not heard back from the HSE in 12 months. This is a large part of the reason why people are dying. By the way this is in rural Ireland, not Dublin, where things may be different?

    Everybody says there is help available. There is some but the problem is a lot of it is charity based, and not enough is provided by the state.


  • #6
    Nodster
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 953 ✭✭✭Nodster


    Pulled this off a bikers forum

    Christmas time is the most likely time of the year to experience depression or the 'Black Dog' as it is sometimes called. The suicide rate is higher during December than any other month, which tells us that Christmas depression should be taken quite seriously.

    Anything bad that has happened in your life will be exacerbated this time of year. People who have had deaths in the family or have experienced divorce or the loss of a loved one are more prone to depression, especially during the holiday season.

    It can be especially difficult to cope with a Christmas depression because everyone else seems so joyous, so reaching out feels more awkward and more remote, so the tendency can be to shut yourself away and get stuck into the pish, or whatever is your poison.


    If you are alone at Christmas and you realize that you are coming down with holiday depression, reach out to someone by phone, whether it is a friend, a relative, whatever, just call someone.
    If you can`t do that, swallow your pride and post your stuff on here.

    You will be surprised how at supportive your fellow boards.ie members can be.

    And how many of us know what you are going through.


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  • #7
    jokettle
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,419 ✭✭✭✭jokettle


    I agree, charities like Aware and Console are trying their best but its just not enough. On a slightly brighter note, a new 24 hour suicide helpline is being set up, not sure exactly when it'll be up and running though. There's some info here if anyone's interested

    http://www.console.ie/index.aspx


  • #8
    2qk4u
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,163 ✭✭✭2qk4u


    My 16 year old son attempted suicide last may and we found out that there is no help.
    We were told that he is too old for child services and too young for adult services, there is two years which happen to be the most common years for suicide where no services excist.
    We were lucky and got help from Sosad Ireland after spending 4 days hitting dead ends.
    It makes me very angry and upset.


  • #9
    consultech
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,956 ✭✭✭consultech


    Red_Marauder wrote: »
    By the way this is in rural Ireland...

    Did the cursory traditional Irish "Would ye come off of that now, pull yourself together will ye?" not bring him right around? Hmph.


  • #10
    Diabhal Beag
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15,238 ✭✭✭✭Diabhal Beag


    2qk4u wrote: »
    My 16 year old son attempted suicide last may and we found out that there is no help.
    We were told that he is too old for child services and too young for adult services, there is two years which happen to be the most common years for suicide where no services excist.
    We were lucky and got help from Sosad Ireland after spending 4 days hitting dead ends.
    It makes me very angry and upset.
    So sorry to hear that.

    My aunt killed herself last year. Her job was giving her so much grief and trouble and nobody could see the signs. There really is no way of telling sometimes if somebody is in a personal crisis. They can conceal it with a smile or a nice hello but inside they are suffering. Unless they can admit they are having problems to somebody there is no way of helping, no matter how good Concern or other services are.


  • #11
    Midnight_EG
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,717 ✭✭✭Midnight_EG


    OP, I'm in the exact same boat as you, here's the link to my own thread on PI that I think you'd like to see.

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055778094


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  • #12
    banshee_bones
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,160 ✭✭✭✭banshee_bones


    A member of my family on my extended - in laws - side hung himself last week.

    Christmas week, I just couldnt believe it. When I told my friend he said thats the 8th person he has heard of of someone he knows committing suicide in the past 5 months.
    He seems to think its getting alot more prevalent..
    Does anyone else out there think the recession may be another contributing factor here? Along with the shambolic support system that seems to be in place for depressed/suicidal people in our country?


  • #13
    GAAman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,370 ✭✭✭GAAman


    consultech wrote: »
    Did the cursory traditional Irish "Would ye come off of that now, pull yourself together will ye?" not bring him right around? Hmph.

    One of my closest friends killed herself a week after telling a doctor that she was going to do it and what did the doctor say? "Sure you are a good lookin girl you will be grand"

    This was after years of depression and anti-depressants and after BEGGING this stupid bitch doctor for help and that is what the doctor said/did

    Again in rural Ireland

    I can only imagine what the family are going through while i know of close loss thankfully not that close


  • #14
    IvySlayer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,190 ✭✭✭✭IvySlayer


    If he wanted to kill himself, he was going to do it.

    What else could have been done? The doctor could not have forced him to go to a psychologist. It's all very well saying this could have been done and that could have done.

    He died, did it to himself. Ballymun has a mental health centre, Ballyfermot has a mental health care centre, Lucan has Pieta House, I could go on.

    Suicideal thoughts are not easy to shake off, and if he was truly intent, nothing was going to stop him.


  • #15
    jokettle
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,419 ✭✭✭✭jokettle


    Following on from my previous post: There's also a good resource in Pieta House, it may not be great for many people because of it's location but this in itself should highlight the need we have for more of these services.

    http://www.pieta.ie/


  • #16
    IvySlayer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,190 ✭✭✭✭IvySlayer


    GAAman wrote: »
    One of my closest friends killed herself a week after telling a doctor that she was going to do it and what did the doctor say? "Sure you are a good lookin girl you will be grand"

    This was after years of depression and anti-depressants and after BEGGING this stupid bitch doctor for help and that is what the doctor said/did

    Again in rural Ireland

    I can only imagine what the family are going through while i know of close loss thankfully not that close

    You reported her right?


  • #17
    GAAman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,370 ✭✭✭GAAman


    IvySlayer wrote: »
    You reported her right?

    Oh believe me i wanted her blood never mind reporting her, but my friends mam didnt want me to, said it wouldnt make any difference and wouldnt bring her back, i was going to go behind her back and do it but felt i should respect her wish


  • #18
    brightkane
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,716 ✭✭✭brightkane


    GAAman wrote: »
    Oh believe me i wanted her blood never mind reporting her, but my friends mam didnt want me to, said it wouldnt make any difference and wouldnt bring her back, i was going to go behind her back and do it but felt i should respect her wish


    Its your call, but i think you should. What if someone else go's to that same doctor with the same story and gets no help. You might just be saving someone left behind from the hurt , pain and unanswered questions


  • #19
    Maserati23
    Registered Users Posts: 89 ✭✭Maserati23


    Hi MM sorry to hear about the suicide, I am sure that was west Dublin! the chap was a friend of my son's. He was found by my sons girlfriend. I also found out my son contemplated it last summer. I hope I reassured him of the consequences on everybody around him. I am glad my son told me, he is 14 and just too young to really understand.

    He mentioned to me today another friend of his died today in the park adjacent the original chaps house, another suicide.

    Between murders and suicedes in that area this year, it must rank number one in the charts.

    Merry Christmas.


  • #20
    consultech
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,956 ✭✭✭consultech


    brightkane wrote: »
    Its your call, but i think you should. What if someone else go's to that same doctor with the same story and gets no help. You might just be saving someone left behind from the hurt , pain and unanswered questions

    +1

    It's not a matter of it "not bringing her back". You could potentially saving someone else's life down the line.


  • #21
    xzanti
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 10,439 Mod ✭✭✭✭xzanti


    Condolences OP.. My cousin took his life at 21, no note, no explanation just gone :( it's very difficult to get your head around.. Nobody could have seen it coming, he was so full of life and confidence (or so he appeared to be) such a waste..


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  • #22
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 14,344 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Maserati23 wrote: »
    I also found out my son contemplated it last summer. I hope I reassured him of the consequences on everybody around him.



    Without trying to insult you, or drag the thread off topic, that seems to be the most common approach, and one of the silliest aswell.

    If someone is considering suicide, how is telling them "you'll be ruining things for other people" going to help?

    It's like saying, "Hey, I know you're obviously under a lot of mental pressure and stress, but here's something else to worry about, too, and now that you feel completely trapped, I know you'll be fine. Take care".


    It's a terribly strategy. Addressing the person's problems is a good idea. Not telling them they're just causing more problems.



    OP; I'm sorry to hear about what happened. Terrible time of the year, but sadly, so prevalent.


  • #23
    GAAman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,370 ✭✭✭GAAman


    brightkane wrote: »
    Its your call, but i think you should. What if someone else go's to that same doctor with the same story and gets no help. You might just be saving someone left behind from the hurt , pain and unanswered questions

    This is something i thought and said myself but what can be done now? This was two years ago (in Sept gone) i can only hope she (doctor) has learned from it

    I have thought about it, have hoped that you couldnt be so intelligent to get a doctorate in medicine and be so retarded to make the same mistake again, but having said that you would think she would be smart enough to see the warning signs in the first place


  • #24
    Johnny Giles
    Closed Accounts Posts: 771 ✭✭✭Johnny Giles


    xzanti wrote: »
    Condolences OP.. My cousin took his life at 21, no note, no explanation just gone :( it's very difficult to get your head around.. Nobody could have seen it coming, he was so full of life and confidence (or so he appeared to be) such a waste..


    Don't say he was a waste. You just can't know what's goiung through their heads when they did it.


  • #25
    GAAman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,370 ✭✭✭GAAman


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Without trying to insult you, or drag the thread off topic, that seems to be the most common approach, and one of the silliest aswell.

    If someone is considering suicide, how is telling them "you'll be ruining things for other people" going to help?

    It's like saying, "Hey, I know you're obviously under a lot of mental pressure and stress, but here's something else to worry about, too, and now that you feel completely trapped, I know you'll be fine. Take care".


    It's a terribly strategy. Addressing the person's problems is a good idea. Not telling them they're just causing more problems.



    OP; I'm sorry to hear about what happened. Terrible time of the year, but sadly, so prevalent.

    I agree in some parts and disagree in others there, someone else in my life was considering suicide and saw the impact of my friends death not only in me but also in my friends family and to this day she cites it as a major reason she didnt do it, so she wouldnt inflict that on anyone


  • #26
    brightkane
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,716 ✭✭✭brightkane


    GAAman wrote: »
    This is something i thought and said myself but what can be done now? This was two years ago (in Sept gone) i can only hope she (doctor) has learned from it

    I have thought about it, have hoped that you couldnt be so intelligent to get a doctorate in medicine and be so retarded to make the same mistake again, but having said that you would think she would be smart enough to see the warning signs in the first place

    There is nothing to lose by reporting her, but a hell of alot more can be gained and grief saved.

    The warning signs arent always there unfortunatley, but for someone like her to be told "I am suicidal" and to give the answer she did and dismiss it like she did makes me sick to my stomach.


  • #27
    xzanti
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 10,439 Mod ✭✭✭✭xzanti


    Johnny Giles wrote: »
    Don't say he was a waste. You just can't know what's goiung through their heads when they did it.

    I didn't say HE was a waste, the loss of his life was a waste, he was only 21 ffs, how is that not a waste??????.. I know he must have been going through his own personal hell, I do not judge him for what he did, I just wish there was something we could have done to help him..


  • #28
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,170 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    xzanti wrote: »
    Condolences OP..
    Ditto MM.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • #29
    El Siglo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,803 ✭✭✭El Siglo


    My deepest sympathies OP, awful thing to happen.
    The one thing that strikes me though is how much advertising, campaigning, money being poured in dealing with road traffic accidents? And how much is being poured into counselling and suicide prevention? You won't see Gaybo on the Late Late talking about suicide, because it's all still taboo and people want to live in denial. In 2008 there was 276 deaths from road traffic accidents and in 2006 there was 409 suicides. I'm not saying car crashes are any less painful for families and friends but what I'm trying to indicate is that the services provided for suicide prevention are wholly inadequate by comparison and also because these are the two most common types of premature deaths in the country.


  • #30
    mikemac
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,986 ✭✭✭✭mikemac


    My sympathies OP

    http://www.3ts.ie/
    Turning the tide of suicide

    I don't have any connection with them but I've heard nothing but good things about them. The state service isn't always great or available in every district and if the HSE can't do it, possibly funding for voluntary organizations could work too possibly.


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  • #31
    reggiethefirst
    Closed Accounts Posts: 180 ✭✭reggiethefirst


    I too believe in euthanasia. I'd love to help people commit suicide.


  • #32
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    Condolences to OP.
    reggiethefirst wrote: »
    I too believe in euthanasia. I'd love to help people commit suicide.



    Not an appropriate post for the OP :mad:


  • #33
    brightkane
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,716 ✭✭✭brightkane


    reggiethefirst wrote: »
    I too believe in euthanasia. I'd love to help people commit suicide.

    Reported


  • #34
    stovelid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,252 ✭✭✭✭stovelid


    This happened to my brother-in-law and even if the support structures were adequate here, it still must be hard to stop somebody who sets their mind on taking this path.

    It's the worst thing that can happen to a family and I really feel for them.


  • #35
    TheZohanS
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,582 ✭✭✭✭TheZohanS


    reggiethefirst wrote: »
    I too believe in euthanasia. I'd love to help people commit suicide.

    Banned for trolling.


  • #36
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    I lost a first cousin whose both parents were practicing GP'S at the time. Even they couldn't council with him.


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  • #37
    arybvtcw0eolkf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,878 ✭✭✭✭arybvtcw0eolkf


    TheZohan wrote: »
    Banned for trolling.


    Its rare I'll reply to a Mod banning someone, but this time I'd like to.. Excellent ban, I hope its lenghty too. What a horrible thing to have posted on a thread like this.


  • #38
    smemon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,467 ✭✭✭smemon


    I don't think support services work... or make much sense tbh.

    I'm guessing the vast majority of young males are successful in suicide attempts so supporting those who fail is like gritting a road after several accidents have occurred...

    There needs to be a more proactive approach starting in secondary school imo. Bringing in victim's families to talk (if they'd agree) would probably be the most powerful way of deterring people imo...


  • #39
    arybvtcw0eolkf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,878 ✭✭✭✭arybvtcw0eolkf


    stovelid wrote: »
    This happened to my brother-in-law and even if the support structures were adequate here, it still must be hard to stop somebody who sets their mind on taking this path.

    It's the worst thing that can happen to a family and I really feel for them.


    Very same thing happened to me.

    He done it on his birthday too.


  • #40
    mikemac
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,986 ✭✭✭✭mikemac


    Run_to_da_hills wrote: »
    I lost a first cousin whose both parents were practicing GP'S at the time. Even they couldn't council with him.

    Well a GP can only do so much, they aren't specialists to a consultant level in any one area.
    But help is available out there

    I only hope if you have nobody to talk then see your GP who help you in a non-judgemental fashion. And refer you to a specialist if needs be
    If you're not comfortable seeing your family GP, see another. Just talk to somebody! Even your best mate

    If everyone fails you then post on boards and someone will have your back. If it's not me it'll be somebody else.
    "A problem shared is a problem halved."

    Christmas is a lonely time for many :(

    Sorry RTDH, reading your post again you lost your cousin, my sympathies


  • #41
    koHd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,142 ✭✭✭koHd


    You just assume everybody chirps up this time of year. But I've read about so many suicides this Christmas. Really sad that they can't even see a nice christmas with people they like to live for. Sorry for anybody that has had somebody close do this. I know it's very hard for people and a lot of people blame themselves and think they could have prevented it. But in most cases you probably would not prevent it as they're so deep into depression. But if you do have worries about somebody you should always try get them to join you to do things they might enjoy at every opportunity.


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  • #42
    arybvtcw0eolkf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,878 ✭✭✭✭arybvtcw0eolkf


    Samaritians = (Rep.of Ireland) ROI: 1850 60 90 90.


  • #43
    stovelid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,252 ✭✭✭✭stovelid


    koHd wrote: »
    You just assume everybody chirps up this time of year. But I've read about so many suicides this Christmas.

    I would imagine that Christmas just compounds the misery for many unhappy people. Not least because it's the middle of winter, but also because of the emphasis on relationships, friendships and general happiness.


  • #44
    thebigcheese22
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,379 ✭✭✭thebigcheese22


    I think I heard somewhere that only 4 million is spent on suicide prevention by the government while 40 million is spent on road safety, despite the fact that suicide kills more people. Kind of sums up this governments attitude really :mad:


  • #45
    mikemac
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,986 ✭✭✭✭mikemac


    4 million euro is a pittance from the government!

    I'm starting to think the HSE can't handle this at all. Just hand the funding to Samaritans and other groups who can possibly help people and have a track record for doing so


  • #46
    My name is URL
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,069 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    mikemac wrote: »
    4 million euro is a pittance from the government!

    I'm starting to think the HSE can't handle this at all. Just hand the funding to Samaritans and other groups who can possibly help people and have a track record for doing so

    Thing is that they could throw all the money in the world at the problem and it won't change that much.. it's as much to do with people's attitudes towards mental health in Ireland as anything else

    There's still a stigma attached to it in Ireland, and that alone is a massive reason as to why people don't use the services available to them, and chose to suffer in silence


  • #47
    Piste
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,440 ✭✭✭✭Piste


    El Siglo wrote: »
    My deepest sympathies OP, awful thing to happen.
    The one thing that strikes me though is how much advertising, campaigning, money being poured in dealing with road traffic accidents? And how much is being poured into counselling and suicide prevention? You won't see Gaybo on the Late Late talking about suicide, because it's all still taboo and people want to live in denial. In 2008 there was 276 deaths from road traffic accidents and in 2006 there was 409 suicides. I'm not saying car crashes are any less painful for families and friends but what I'm trying to indicate is that the services provided for suicide prevention are wholly inadequate by comparison and also because these are the two most common types of premature deaths in the country.

    I dunno, I've seen and heard a lot of advertisement for looking after your mental health and reaching out to others if you feel they may be suicidal. Granted I havent seen nearly as much publicity for mental health awareness as I have for Road Safety, but it's definitely there.


  • #48
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    mikemac wrote: »
    Well a GP can only do so much, they aren't specialists to a consultant level in any one area.
    But help is available out there

    I only hope if you have nobody to talk then see your GP who help you in a non-judgemental fashion. And refer you to a specialist if needs be
    If you're not comfortable seeing your family GP, see another. Just talk to somebody! Even your best mate

    If everyone fails you then post on boards and someone will have your back. If it's not me it'll be somebody else.
    "A problem shared is a problem halved."

    Christmas is a lonely time for many :(

    Sorry RTDH, reading your post again you lost your cousin, my sympathies
    It was a long time ago, mid 80ies, one thing he was a total loner and would spend hours or day at his PC,probably a Sinclair or Commodore 64, and not socializing. No interaction in those days.

    It has caused more devastation on his family as they felt responsibility for it. The family was also extremely well off living in one of the most upmarket parts of Cheshire and it made absolutely no difference. It also shows that money isn't everything.

    They should also fit a visible phone with a hot line to the Samaritans at the top Cliffs of Moher. It is a well known spot for people taking their own lives. With the amount of cash spent on this place recently it wouldnt be too much to ask.


  • #49
    john_d_baptist
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34 ✭john_d_baptist


    there is help, its a program called ASIST and everyone should be aware of it.
    Applied Suicide Intervention Skills Training (ASIST)

    http://www.youthhealth.ie/index.php?id=159

    its a short course and will save someone's life. Learn it, it could help a loved one


  • #50
    sheep-go-baa
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 179 ✭✭sheep-go-baa


    Ads on tv are only a tiny portion of what needs to be done. Someone with depression could sit in a room with their family, the ad comes on and not a word of discussion about it. A more open minded attitude is what is needed.


  • #51
    MagicMarker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    Hi guys, I appreciate the condolences, but to make it clear, I didn't know this guy myself, I don't even know his name in fact. I only know about it because his mother and my mother know each other.
    Midnight_EG wrote: »
    OP, I'm in the exact same boat as you, here's the link to my own thread on PI that I think you'd like to see.

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055778094

    Hi Midnight, looking at your post and location I think we're talking about the same kid. I'm really sorry for your loss man, I can't even begin to imagine what you're actually going through.


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