What's it like working in development - part time work available?

Under_Graduate · 11-09-2015 2:52pm #1

Hey, I'm just browsing future career options.

Looking on jobs websites, there's so much work in ICT but, I've been reviewing code and coding courses over the past while and, yeah - not gonna lie - it's pretty challenging.

My main objective is to simply get work that will cover my expenses and not consume too much of my life cause, I have a far greater focus on outside interests.

Are there part time positions available in software development, generally speaking?

Coming from Civil Engineering - there are no part time positions available.
The industry just doesn't work like that.

I'm just curious as to how those working in the development industry find the work?
Is it very labor intensive/stressful?
Constantly meeting deadlines and working long hours, that type of thing?

MagicMarker · 11-09-2015 3:11pm

Why not just go for ''non-skilled'' work if all you're interested in is covering expenses?

counterpointaud · 11-09-2015 5:43pm

Under_Graduate wrote: »

Is it very labor intensive/stressful?

yes

Under_Graduate wrote: »

Constantly meeting deadlines and working long hours, that type of thing?

yes

There are some other perks though. The possibility of remote work, for one.

jester77 · 11-09-2015 5:55pm

counterpointaud wrote: »

yes

yes

There are some other perks though. The possibility of remote work, for one.

This would not be my experience. If you enjoy the work then it is challenging and fun. I wouldn't call it stressful. There are of course deadlines, but if you are having to work overtime then it is a product of poor planning and grooming which reflects badly on the team. A good team with a good PO will always have things under control.

moc moc a moc · 11-09-2015 8:34pm

Under_Graduate wrote: »

not gonna lie - it's pretty challenging.

My main objective is to simply get work that will cover my expenses and not consume too much of my life cause, I have a far greater focus on outside interests.

Sorry buddy, but based on the above, software development (at least, getting good enough at it that you can work only part time and still make good money) is not for you.

Under_Graduate · 11-09-2015 11:18pm

MagicMarker wrote: »

Why not just go for ''non-skilled'' work if all you're interested in is covering expenses?

Because in my experience, non-skilled work is just as long and hard and pays far worse, when I know I have the ability to apply myself in something where I can make much more money, thus better cover my expenses, and hopefully work less hours.

Under_Graduate · 11-09-2015 11:20pm

moc moc a moc wrote: »

Sorry buddy, but based on the above, software development (at least, getting good enough at it that you can work only part time and still make good money) is not for you.

Can you elaborate on that?

What I'm referring to is basically learning java coding.

Confronted with this wall of text and symbols for the first time, trying to absorb that in such a way as to be able to reproduce it competently - would I be wrong in saying, anyone may find that challenging?

Isn't it true that software development courses have some of the highest drop out rates of any college courses?

Berserker · 11-09-2015 11:21pm

Under_Graduate wrote: »

My main objective is to simply get work that will cover my expenses and not consume too much of my life cause, I have a far greater focus on outside interests.

Are there part time positions available in software development, generally speaking?

Not at graduate level. A career in software development borders on a vocation, in my mind. You need to be passionate about it.

Under_Graduate · 11-09-2015 11:21pm

The alternative I'm looking at is a masters in renewables and energy efficiency, a follow on from civil engineering - I'm not sure what the part time prospects are for that though.

Under_Graduate · 11-09-2015 11:24pm

Berserker wrote: »

Not at graduate level. A career in software development borders on a vocation, in my mind.

Do you mean to say that, to really have a career in software development, be it full or part time, there must be something of a passion for development?

That being the case, are there other areas of ICT that I could avail of?

The option I have at the moment is a springboard conversion course.
Coming off something like that, I'm wondering what my career prospects would be...
Full time - labor intensive stuff?

Under_Graduate · 11-09-2015 11:31pm

Berserker wrote: »

Not at graduate level. A career in software development borders on a vocation, in my mind. You need to be passionate about it.

Okay, I have to ask, that being the case....

How many people are genuinely passionate about writing code?

Isn't there a massive deficit in the availability of competent developers?
If making the grade really requires a "passion", won't that always be the case?

salamanca22 · 11-09-2015 11:38pm

Under_Graduate wrote: »

Okay, I have to ask, that being the case....

How many people are genuinely passionate about writing code?

Isn't there a massive deficit in the availability of competent developers?
If making the grade really requires a "passion", won't that always be the case?

There are plenty of people who are passionate about writing code, you just have to look at the likes of github and see how many people are giving away their code for free.

There will always be a deficit of top tier anything, programmer, carpenters, janitors or whatever else you have, that is why they are head hunted and paid top dollar.

syklops · 11-09-2015 11:43pm

Under_Graduate wrote: »

Do you mean to say that, to really have a career in software development, be it full or part time, there must be something of a passion for development?

Why did you choose civil engineering to begin with?

How many people are genuinely passionate about writing code?

I LOVE Python. Perl used to be my go to language, but then I got hooked on Python. I never really took to Java. Why did you choose Java of all things?

Under_Graduate · 11-09-2015 11:45pm

salamanca22 wrote: »

There are plenty of people who are passionate about writing code, you just have to look at the likes of github and see how many people are giving away their code for free.

There will always be a deficit of top tier anything, programmer, carpenters, janitors or whatever else you have, that is why they are head hunted and paid top dollar.

So obviously you agree with Beserker about it being a vocation.

Given the fact that I've done some surface level online courses and found them so and so - is that an indicator of suitability?

Would you be in a position to recommend any material for me to cover such that when I've completed it, I'd know if coding was or wasn't for me?

Berserker · 11-09-2015 11:48pm

Under_Graduate wrote: »

Okay, I have to ask, that being the case....

How many people are genuinely passionate about writing code?

Isn't there a massive deficit in the availability of competent developers?
If making the grade really requires a "passion", won't that always be the case?

In response to your first question, you could try for a low level support role.

In response to the above, plenty of people are passionate. I love writing and designing solutions in C#. As we speak, I am re-writing some old code. If you are not passionate about it then you will not take pride in your work and you will end up writing code which is poor in terms of quality. That will make your working life more difficult and it will also make life harder on your colleagues. There is a shortage in the sector because software development is a difficult skill to master and a skill which is based on problem solving, something that Irish people are not exposed to in education.

Under_Graduate · 11-09-2015 11:49pm

syklops wrote: »

Why did you choose civil engineering to begin with?

I actually chose mechanical engineering initially, cause I always had a natural curiosity about the mechanics of various pieces of technology.

I did my first year in that, and discovered that learning these mechanics, is not so easy.
That and the fact that I developed huge external interests which the schedule of college clashed with, in conjunction with the fact that we were within the grips of the celtic tiger at the time, so it made all the sense in the world for me to switch to a more construction orientated form of engineering - thus walking into a high paid job after graduation.

That's pretty much my logic behind development.

It's probably the most sought after profession at the moment, easy to find a job. Good money.

Under_Graduate · 11-09-2015 11:54pm

Berserker wrote: »

In response to your first question, you could try for a low level support role.

In response to the above, plenty of people are passionate. If you are not passionate then you will not take pride in your work and you will end up writing code which is poor in terms of quality. That will make your working life more difficult and it will also make life harder on your colleagues. There is a shortage in the sector because software development is a difficult skill to master and a skill which is based on problem solving, something that Irish people are not exposed to in education.

Low level support role.

So doing a technicians course like Comptia or some networking certs and the resulting employment?
I've been looking in that area, and the main advice I was given was that, it's basically minimum wage work, and I'd be better off doing a post grad conversion course in development.

Your second paragraph perfectly describes the time I spent working as an engineer.

All I could think about all day was getting finished and doing my thing.
I did not take pride in the work, was resultingly of poor quality, and it made life more difficult on my colleagues (resulting in a lot of bad feeling and poor communication between us).

But it still leaves me with the conundrum as to what direction I should go with my future.

Graham · 12-09-2015 12:57am

I can't see how you'd manage to move into a completely new career on a part time basis while immediately maintaining a decent income.

With little to no commercial experience you'll be competing at the lowest end of the market against students working for beer money and ultra-low-cost offshore/freelance operations. You're unlikely to find a part-time graduate or junior dev position, even less likely to find one with reasonable pay.

If you're really considering a career move into development you need to seriously re-evaluate your commitment.

If you do manage to work out how to jump into ANY career with reasonable pay, little stress and part-time hours that allow you to focus on your outside interests, please be sure to post back and tell us all the secret.

syklops · 12-09-2015 12:59am

Under_Graduate wrote: »

Low level support role.

So doing a technicians course like Comptia or some networking certs and the resulting employment?
I've been looking in that area, and the main advice I was given was that, it's basically minimum wage work, and I'd be better off doing a post grad conversion course in development.

Your second paragraph perfectly describes the time I spent working as an engineer.

All I could think about all day was getting finished and doing my thing.
I did not take pride in the work, was resultingly of poor quality, and it made life more difficult on my colleagues (resulting in a lot of bad feeling and poor communication between us).

But it still leaves me with the conundrum as to what direction I should go with my future.

What are you passionate about?

Buford T Justice · 12-09-2015 1:22am

Under_Graduate wrote: »

Because in my experience, non-skilled work is just as long and hard and pays far worse, when I know I have the ability to apply myself in something where I can make much more money, thus better cover my expenses, and hopefully work less hours.

Not part time you can't. Not in software development and not least in a language like Java. You can't be expected to be involved in a project of reasonable scale on a part time basis. By the time you catch up with the team on where they're at, its home time again.

Under_Graduate wrote: »

Can you elaborate on that?

What I'm referring to is basically learning java coding.

Confronted with this wall of text and symbols for the first time, trying to absorb that in such a way as to be able to reproduce it competently - would I be wrong in saying, anyone may find that challenging?

Isn't it true that software development courses have some of the highest drop out rates of any college courses?

There's a reason for that. Learning via an online course is great. You can simply follow along with the tutorials and lean about basic java functionality but this is nothing compared to a real world development environment

Under_Graduate wrote: »

Do you mean to say that, to really have a career in software development, be it full or part time, there must be something of a passion for development?

That being the case, are there other areas of ICT that I could avail of?

The option I have at the moment is a springboard conversion course.
Coming off something like that, I'm wondering what my career prospects would be...
Full time - labor intensive stuff?

To be a serious developer takes effort and hard work. There's no in between casual developers particularly in languages like java which require more than just a part time effort.. So it's made easier by having a passion for software dev. Simply put - if you're the kind of person that prefers to build things and create physical stuff then software isn't for you.

Much like other disciplines, there isn't much call for part time developers in software because of the reasons above. Full Time Staff are far more desirable, up to speed and in touch with new developments in software advancement since its a career - versus someone who only dips in and our of it here and there.

If you're looking for easy money for not a lot of effort, you're looking in the wrong place.

The Corinthian · 14-09-2015 10:13am

Under_Graduate wrote: »

Because in my experience, non-skilled work is just as long and hard and pays far worse, when I know I have the ability to apply myself in something where I can make much more money, thus better cover my expenses, and hopefully work less hours.

Become a rent boy.

TBH, I understand where you're coming from; you reckon you have an aptitude, can turn to development and that this may be a well paid profession on an hourly basis, leaving you with plenty of freedom to pursue your 'outside interests'. And yes, it can be, but as with most careers or professions not at the start.

In the real World, those jobs that will eventually allow you to earn silly money from doing relatively little work only do so because you did a lot of work on the way up. In many if not most cases, solicitors, doctors, developers and the like will be doing much longer hours and/or get paid less than someone walking into a factory job, even before you consider the investment in education they need to put in (and in development continue doing so for their entire careers).

So development can become an 'easy', well paid job, but not for years - it's also no guaranteed it will either (Barristers being an example of where that investment often never pays off).

So a non-skilled job probably will fit what you're looking for. You'll never progress, but it'll cover your expenses, if that's what you're looking for. Some, such as the sex industry, will also pay far more, if you really want to maximize your income for minimum effort - jobs that are unpleasant, dangerous, socially unattractive will tend to pay well. Or see if you can somehow monetize your 'outside interests'.

But a nice easy job from day one, you're not going to find, TBH. Certainly not development.

um7y1h83ge06nx · 14-09-2015 10:32am

Interesting thread. Being honest OP I think you're looking to have your cake and eat it. Don't take that as an insult though, if you get the life you're looking for then very fair play to you, just leave us know your secret.

In terms of well paying jobs, I lived with a paramedic once. He got hunted by a company for a part-time number (that he could do in conjunction with his main job) to be an on-site medical person in a mine. Can't remember the figures but the pay was ridiculously good, possibly the fact that it could be dangerous work if there was an emergency helped I guess.

Whatever you do, you need to actually enjoy it. I don't think you are particularly enthusiastic about Development, so it might be difficult to succeed in it.

We were discussing in work what we would do if we won money in the Lotto, not enough to retire but enough to take life easier. We reckoned we would contract for 6 months each winter and take the rest of the year off. But of course for contracting you need good skills and solid experience if you want the high rate paying jobs.

Do let us know how you get on.

imitation · 14-09-2015 10:57am

Under_Graduate wrote: »

That and the fact that I developed huge external interests which the schedule of college clashed with,

Id say we all have huge external interests outside of work/education, but unless a persons won the lotto or has some other cash source, they can just gotta sacrifice it, if they want the usual things like a mortgage and a family. As this is the general case for most people, the 5 day, 40 hour week is considered the norm. I have seen people in engineering get part time after long service with a company but nobodys going to walk into a job like that. I reckon theres few solid reasons for that.

If your working part time, you will gain experience slower.
If other people are relying on you they could be waiting 2-3 working days for you.
In software development underestimation of work, project deadlines, random issues etc are common, so often overtime is expected, if you specifically want to work 3 days then its likey you will refuse overtime as you have other commitments.
The man hour myth goes double for development, 1 dev working 40 hours it is worth a lot more than 2 working 20 hours.

counterpointaud · 14-09-2015 12:23pm

imitation wrote: »

The man hour myth goes double for development, 1 dev working 40 hours it is worth a lot more than 2 working 20 hours.

This is very true, and the main reason for lack of part-time dev roles IMO.

awec · 14-09-2015 3:23pm

I've never met an actual part time software dev in my life.

At best you can become a self employed contractor and be very selective about when you work, but that won't even be proper part time. It'd be more like you work full time for a while and then don't work at all for a while.

The Corinthian · 14-09-2015 3:47pm

awec wrote: »

I've never met an actual part time software dev in my life.

Probably rare in Ireland, but they do exist - depends on the culture of part time work in general in a society. 'Part time' developers - more correctly those who will work 40% - 80% are not too uncommon here. It's often negotiated by developers seeking greater work-life balance or who wish to share parenting with their spouses (who also will tend to work 'part time').

moycullen14 · 14-09-2015 6:03pm

Part time developers do exist. I know a fair number of women, for example, who work in development 3-4 days a week. Usually, though, they are bringing a lot to the table in terms of domain specific skills and experience. It's a win-win because the employees really value the part-time aspect of the work and employers know it's a form of handcuff.

Joining a project part-time is a whole different ball game. On-boarding (getting up to speed) takes much longer if you are working part-time and unless you are bringing some niche skills, it's unlikely that it would be seen as worthwhile.

IMO, project work (team work, really) isn't terribly suited to part-time working. Really, what you want is well paid piece work. Something like Dentistry, Pharmacy or, maybe, Medicine.

awec · 14-09-2015 6:27pm

Are these women working part time post child birth though?

I would see that as a different set of circumstances.

moycullen14 · 15-09-2015 9:43am

awec wrote: »

Are these women working part time post child birth though?

I would see that as a different set of circumstances.

Generally, yes. Although one I know is a part-time carer. Not sure what difference it makes, though.

One thing I have noticed about people who work part-time or are on the clock: they seem to be much more task focussed. A lot less time wasting than with those who 'work' 50+ hours a week.

In the end, it's all about productivity, not hours worked.

bpmurray · 15-09-2015 9:58am

Reading through this thread, I'm surprised at the naiveté of the OP. To be a software developer requires a good grounding/education in the basics, e.g. a degree in software engineering or computer science. Once you graduate, you are a total beginner: an employer assumes you know nothing but hopes that you can make a contribution to the project in probably 6 months or so. After a few years experience (5-10, depending on your experience), you hit the point where you have sufficient knowledge such that you can decide to go part-time.

Software development is not a 9-5 job - I've worked many 48-hour days, and have spent weeks without a weekend off and only very, very few companies give time off in lieu. The industry is becoming even less forgiving, with many DevOps roles now assuming people are available 24x7, so don't think it's an easy job.

And the comments about passion are true: I've been playing the software development game for over 35 years and am still passionate about it, learning new stuff all the time, playing with new languages / frameworks / technologies / etc.

The Corinthian · 15-09-2015 10:10am

moycullen14 wrote: »

In the end, it's all about productivity, not hours worked.

Not entirely. It's also about availability.

gargargar · 15-09-2015 11:47am

You don't have a hope OP.

To get decent paid part time work is not really an option when you start out. You need to put in long hours and learn from others. Part time is possible once you are properly experience, and can work on your own (no mentoring).

To earn good money you need to really apply yourself at the start of your career, regardless of the field. It sounds like you are looking for an easy option right from the get go. Unlikely to work unless you have an unusual level of natural talent.

imitation · 15-09-2015 7:01pm

bpmurray wrote: »

And the comments about passion are true: I've been playing the software development game for over 35 years and am still passionate about it, learning new stuff all the time, playing with new languages / frameworks / technologies / etc.

This is another thing, to be a good dev you have to research new technologies for every project. You are constantly upskilling. It just wouldnt fit into the part time lifestyle.

ScottStorm · 15-09-2015 7:49pm

OP a month ago you didn't know the difference between java and javascript, now you think you can walk into a p/t development role?

You mentioned a springboard course, they are good but not that good.

Berserker · 15-09-2015 8:13pm

awec wrote: »

I've never met an actual part time software dev in my life.

I am moving into a part time role myself. I have ten years experience in full time development.

bpmurray wrote: »

Software development is not a 9-5 job - I've worked many 48-hour days, and have spent weeks without a weekend off and only very, very few companies give time off in lieu. The industry is becoming even less forgiving, with many DevOps roles now assuming people are available 24x7, so don't think it's an easy job.

Very few people realise this. It is not uncommon for a developer to work fifty hours or more a week. I have a massive problem with this myself, to be honest, as I believe that a developer needs to be well rested to perform. I spend a fair chunk of my time performing code reviews and you see a higher volume of issues in the reviews that are submitted after core hours. Tired developers make mistakes, which in turn is going to lead to time wasted fixing those bugs, when they surface in test or worse again in production. I have discussed this with management in the company that I work in but they fail to see the problem with it and they still can't fathom why they turnover rate of staff is so high in our company, of course.

Under_Graduate · 16-09-2015 10:11pm

Okay just checking in to say I appreciate this good insight.

To be honest, even when I did my degree, after doing my placement I realized, I had no real intention of working as a engineer.
I just did it as a demonstration of competence, so I'd have something to say for myself basically, as oppose to having, "I worked summers at the local dairy" on my CV.

But that was 6 years ago.
Even in terms of doing a springboard course, I figured it'd be basically "updating" that approach, an investment in my future, if you will.
I figured with a level 8 degree, I could be offered lesser roles with ease.

One poster mentioned other professions that may offer more in terms of potential part time roles.
Pharmacy being one?

I mean, I know this is the development forum, so I don't wanna deviate too much, but perhaps you guys might be more up to speed on what options, post graduate or conversion courses would be available, relative to the purpose of this thread - part time'ish work...?

I gotta be honest, a pharmacists job looks cushy as hell, and I always liked chemistry at school.

But to sum up - basically the consensus feedback I'm getting here is that, development is a tough profession to get into, that requires the utmost commitment and dedication, as well as somewhat of an affinity for the work; the former I would highly question in myself, and the latter - well, I found thenewboston online tutorials to be doable but not a cakewalk...
I certainly recoil a tad at the thought of reproducing that kind of work myself off the top of my head...

Stheno · 16-09-2015 11:00pm

Under_Graduate wrote: »

Pharmacy being one?

I gotta be honest, a pharmacists job looks cushy as hell, and I always liked chemistry at school.

I certainly recoil a tad at the thought of reproducing that kind of work myself off the top of my head...

Pharmacy is an extremely demanding role, I hold pharmacists in the utmost respect being someone who has been on drugs for which I have had very liberal prescriptions to the point that my doctor has written a justification for the prescription on it. The pharmacist still had a duty of care to double check it.

As a pharmacist, if you make a mistake you could kill someone, or if you abide by the rules, you may end up in the coroners court to explain why you killed someone.

http://utv.ie/News/2015/03/27/Coroner-records-death-by-misadventure-in-nut-allergy-case-34386

Development or indeed any role in IT imo is not for you, I've known people in various roles in IT think it all looked rosy from the outside, yet then have health crises due to the effort involved.

I think you need to see a professional career coach to evaluate what you want, what skills and strengths you have, and then figure out what you want to do.

I work in IT, not in dev, but it's continuous education, staring at a new challenge and realising you have to meet it, and meeting it.

That can be tough at times.

maki · 16-09-2015 11:12pm

Under_Graduate wrote: »

Pharmacy being one?

I gotta be honest, a pharmacists job looks cushy as hell, and I always liked chemistry at school.

Pharmacy is a full-time 5 year course, and there are no conversion courses. Even with graduate entry you start at year 1.

The Corinthian · 17-09-2015 8:50am

Under_Graduate wrote: »

I gotta be honest, a pharmacists job looks cushy as hell, and I always liked chemistry at school.

But to sum up - basically the consensus feedback I'm getting here is that, development is a tough profession to get into, that requires the utmost commitment and dedication, as well as somewhat of an affinity for the work; the former I would highly question in myself, and the latter - well, I found thenewboston online tutorials to be doable but not a cakewalk...
I certainly recoil a tad at the thought of reproducing that kind of work myself off the top of my head...

I think you've missed the point in your summation, given your continued search for a 'cushy' number.

Many jobs and professions can become 'cushy' in time. Probably the 'cushiest' is academia, where you will effectively work a part time week and earn a pretty good salary. In time.

But as with all careers like that, you pay your dues at the start so that you can benefit from the 'cushy' position later on - years of post grads and research, kissing professorial ass and being treated as effective slave labour by them, and surviving on tutorials with no job security until you get, if fortunate, tenure.

In short, at best either it's tough at the start and eventually you get your well-paid, cushy number, or it's less tough to begin with, but you never get the well paid, 'cushy' number in the end - but that's your choice. There's no free lunch.

Welcome to life.

KAGY · 17-09-2015 9:18am

OP, you need a good hard think about what you want. A guidance councillor will help, every adult learning centre will have one.
A job in anything you're not interested in in the slightest will always be a soul destroying chore. You'll never stick it long enough to gain the experience needed to comfortably earn what you want.

Setting up your own business might be an option, so you don't have anyone relying on you. could you create an app for your "external interests"? (If you don't think you could make a start at that now with help from Google and an online course from say codademy do that now why do you think you would be more employable than the other hundreds of graduates each year?)
Can you think of a way to monetise those interests Or pick a part of civil engineering you did like and improve that?

BTW I'm not a developer, or even employed in IT, but I have an big interest in computing and can write short bits of code / databases / automated spreadsheets for little jobs I have and I wouldn't consider doing what you are proposing. It'll be a waste of another few years for you.

edit: just thinking long term, if you ever get married and kids (or even pets!) come along, you won't have the time for anything else anyway and you may just want a job you can get lost in :-)

um7y1h83ge06nx · 17-09-2015 10:00am

The Corinthian wrote: »

I think you've missed the point in your summation, given your continued search for a 'cushy' number.....

Excellent post The Corinthian, nail on the head. I'd take heed OP, I really think you are looking for something that doesn't exist in the short to medium term.

beauf · 17-09-2015 3:51pm

Under_Graduate wrote: »

...My main objective is to simply get work that will cover my expenses and not consume too much of my life cause, I have a far greater focus on outside interests....

Are there part time positions available in software development, generally speaking?....

The answer to both of these is no, not at the bottom half of the ladder. When you very experienced. It may be possible. But you'll never get to this point without making a greater commitment you are willing to.

imitation · 19-09-2015 2:32pm

The Corinthian wrote: »

I think you've missed the point in your summation, given your continued search for a 'cushy' number.

Many jobs and professions can become 'cushy' in time. Probably the 'cushiest' is academia, where you will effectively work a part time week and earn a pretty good salary. In time.

But as with all careers like that, you pay your dues at the start so that you can benefit from the 'cushy' position later on - years of post grads and research, kissing professorial ass and being treated as effective slave labour by them, and surviving on tutorials with no job security until you get, if fortunate, tenure.

In short, at best either it's tough at the start and eventually you get your well-paid, cushy number, or it's less tough to begin with, but you never get the well paid, 'cushy' number in the end - but that's your choice. There's no free lunch.

Welcome to life.

Agreed, theres queues of people with a degree and no experience for almost every job out there, most are willing to put into hard work and 50 hour weeks. This is mainly because they are young and commitment free and want to build a lifetime career. Why would an employer create a graduate role that is part time in that climate.

experiMental · 03-10-2015 4:02pm

@OP I have an alternative solution. Learn economics, to find out the real value of your interests, and how they are connected to economy.

Then, make your interests work for the economy. My 2 cents.

14ned · 05-10-2015 4:46pm

The Corinthian wrote: »

Many jobs and professions can become 'cushy' in time.

I +100 this point. There are very few jobs in this world which pay well, provide work hours flexibility and which have low barriers to entry. If there were, everyone would convert into those jobs.

Same goes for software development. After investing a decade or so in the profession, you can gain the choice to take a severe pay cut in exchange for a part time week like I did last year to help out with the birth of our first child. I got to see my baby's first steps, first words, first lots of stuff, but it came at the cost of running down our family cash reserves to (as I type this) just €1,672. So even then, no free lunch. I'm back onto real paying work from this month, but that comes with it normal work hours.

The Corinthian wrote: »

Probably the 'cushiest' is academia, where you will effectively work a part time week and earn a pretty good salary. In time. But as with all careers like that, you pay your dues at the start so that you can benefit from the 'cushy' position later on - years of post grads and research, kissing professorial ass and being treated as effective slave labour by them, and surviving on tutorials with no job security until you get, if fortunate, tenure.

In short, at best either it's tough at the start and eventually you get your well-paid, cushy number, or it's less tough to begin with, but you never get the well paid, 'cushy' number in the end - but that's your choice. There's no free lunch.

I don't think academia is what it was even ten years ago. You either work like a dog and see a chance of promotion, or you never see promotion and get the salary you have for the remainder of your years teaching twelve hours per week (this may not seem much to a secondary school teacher, and I suppose it isn't compared. However it's much harder to get into academia, with many more years of risky two year contracts moving between (relatively few) universities until you find a permanent contract, so the barriers to entry are much higher with a corresponding pay off after you're in).

No I think the only real advantage of academia is the relatively excellent pension. But then working in parts of the civil service comes with the same pension with much lower barriers to entry. So, for my book, probably the most cushy easiest to get into job in Ireland today is probably the civil service, as soul destroying as working in some parts of it is (I'm thinking the Social Welfare Office in particular, the section where your job is to visit families to decide if to take away their children).

As everyone has mentioned by now, there is no free lunch unless you are exceptionally lucky e.g. have a hit record, earn a few million, and then you get all the problems most of us think we would love to have (but are still surprisingly unpleasant, my cousin had a hit record, was a millionaire, and life was surprisingly hard for him. His last job was moving bricks on a construction yard. Even being very financially lucky doesn't mean you are lucky in life).

Niall

robbiezero · 05-10-2015 5:18pm

I don't know if you need to be passionate about software development to get on well in your career in it. Certainly you need to take pride in doing your work well, but that applies to any job. I'm working in it years and have done well, but I have never been passionate about it and would have no qualms about never doing any development again, if I was ever in a position to give it up. I hardly ever do any of it in my spare time.
To get to a position where software development is a cushy number, you need to have lots of experience and to have built up a bank of trust in the company you are in so that you can estimate your time correctly to perform tasks. You may also have the option of spending some time working from home, which saves travel time and is a nice change from being a commuter office drone.
When I read about people with 10 years plus experience regularly doing 60 hour weeks and working weekends, I really wonder what they are at. Fair enough if they are getting paid for their time or love it that much, I did it in my twenties, but there is not a hope I would do that regularly now and I can't see how I would ever need to.
I often wonder, would I take more pleasure in working and maybe perform better if I was passionate about it, but then as the uber-nerd across the desk from me raises his arms above his head and utters yet another exclamation of triumph at getting a unit test to pass, I think to myself, that I'd rather it the way I am.

14ned · 05-10-2015 5:56pm

robbiezero wrote: »

I often wonder, would I take more pleasure in working and maybe perform better if I was passionate about it, but then as the uber-nerd across the desk from me raises his arms above his head and utters yet another exclamation of triumph at getting a unit test to pass, I think to myself, that I'd rather it the way I am.

One of my personal big realisations is being passionate about software development has a negative effect on being employed to do so. Employers rarely let you carry a piece of software to completion, so if you feel passion you'll always be left hanging.

The most pleasant job I've ever had was one which I didn't particularly get worked up about. I did care, just not enough that when I went home it bothered me at all. Absolute heaven.

In my opinion for stuff you're passionate about, it's best kept to hobby time and your retirement. Ideally speaking of course, in the end of all the things I am competent at, software development pays the best for the least work, so that's why I do what I do.

Niall

What's it like working in development - part time work available?

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