Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12

eugeneious · 29-05-2012 8:46am

honigstein: Kagawa to MUFC transfer is nearly completed. fee €15m rising to €22m. Sporting director Zorc: "some details tbc". (via Kicker)

_blank_ · 29-05-2012 8:47am

Can sell/get rid of Park now.

Don't need two Asian Jersey Movers.

Giggsy11 · 29-05-2012 8:47am

Lets put the numbers in pounds, just to fee better

12-18 Million pounds.

donalg1 · 29-05-2012 8:48am

daveyboy_1ie wrote: »

Just worried that the Kagawa deal is off now too because of all the fapping over Hazard. Hopefully work was being carried out in the background but I hate lulls in news like the last week with potential signings. If both signings fail then I will go f*cking mental.

I have always said the Hernandez, Smalling etc. signings of this world are great as they are cheap and potentially some of them work out (some like Bebe, Diouf don't of course), however buying actual proven talent is something I have always looked forward to as a United supporter and have done for nearly 30 years. The last few seasons though have been very frustrating as most of the signings I want to happen have not. All three signings last season were real 'whatever' signings for me. Delighted with their progress however none got me excited. That's what I want, a signing that will have me really looking forward to next season.

And this summer there is no hiding behind silverware, every man and his dog knows United need to improve in midfield to challenge next season. So far no progress has been made and as time ticks on my frustration grows. Hopefully some positive news comes through soon.

Cant see United being able to draw the big names that would get anyone excited. They seem to be able to only sign young lads with potential, potential meaning they havent done it yet. If a big name player decides he is coming to the premier league he is only going to sign for Chelsea or Man City because they will pay the best wages. Look at Hazard he said he was going to choose the team that will play him the most and yet he goes to Chelsea a club without a manager, unless of course Roman has assured him he will play!

But if a player decides I dont want to go to London I would prefer Manchester obviously he will go to City given the fact they would pay him double the wages he'd get at Utd and probably more bonuses and a bigger signing fee. Why would anyone choose Utd these days, and they would also have to look at the Rooney saga, one of Utd's top players trying his best to get outta there in the middle of the season, Ronaldo being sold in his prime, many more players choosing other clubs over Utd.

Then when you think of the amount of interest alone Utd have to pay each year and consider City and Chelsea dont have to pay this and can instead use the £60m to buy a player and pay him huge wages, it doesnt look too good for Utd.

MagicMarker · 29-05-2012 8:51am

So assuming that's true, that gives our front 4 a lot of options next season between Valencia, Nani, Rooney, Young, Kagawa, Welbeck, Hernandez + new striker.

Nay too shabby really.

Giggsy11 · 29-05-2012 8:55am

MagicMarker wrote: »

So assuming that's true, that gives our front 4 a lot of options next season between Valencia, Nani, Rooney, Young, Kagawa, Welbeck, Hernandez + new striker.

Nay too shabby really.

If we sign Kagawa we dont need another striker.

I think we will play 4-2-3-1 in most of the games with Rooney as lone striker and Kagawa as AM. Previous seasons when Rooney played as lone striker he was isolated a lot as we lacked player like Kagawa, now with this signing that wont be a problem. And if Kagawa is on bench then our usual formation with Rooney as #10 and Welbeck/Hernandez as strikers.

Blatter · 29-05-2012 8:59am

MagicMarker wrote: »

So assuming that's true, that gives our front 4 a lot of options next season between Valencia, Nani, Rooney, Young, Kagawa, Welbeck, Hernandez + new striker.

Nay too shabby really.

Yep, said all along that I'd be pretty happy going into the new season with that and play 4 from those 7 at any one time with a cheap back up/young player or two in the background.

Now just get a quality CM + a decent full back and we're done.

adox · 29-05-2012 9:06am

Blatter wrote: »

Kicker (German newspaper that are apparently fairly reliable) reporting that we've had a second bid of €15m + performance related add ons accepted for Kagawa and say it's all but done.

Be delighted if thats true.

Another day of keeping the ear close to Twitter, BBC, SSN.....................

Jax Teller · 29-05-2012 9:07am

Thomas Sorensen pulled out of the Danish squad will Lindegaard play instead of him now ?

Blatter · 29-05-2012 9:12am

adox wrote: »

Be delighted if thats true.

Another day of keeping the ear close to Twitter, BBC, SSN.....................

I don't think it'll be wrapped for another week or two. Kagawa is on international duty for Japan and has a few WC qualifiers AFAIK.

Coletrickle88 wrote: »

Thomas Sorensen pulled out of the Danish squad will Lindegaard play instead of him now ?

I'd presume so anyway.

Liam O · 29-05-2012 9:17am

I have a sneaky feeling Fergie may try out Kagawa as part of a 2 man midfield beside Carrick quite early. Carrick does a lot of defensive work and Kagawa can't be worse (though he's probably as bad) defensively as Cleverly. I'd be interested to see it anyway.

_blank_ · 29-05-2012 9:25am

Maybe the tactical genius that is Mike Phelan has finally talked Fergie into playing with and sticking to a 4-2-3-1 for the whole season, instead of the out-dated old fashioned and frankly tired 4-4-2 that gets found out all too often.

Carrick Scholes
Nani/Val

Kaga

Young

Rooney

Mitch Connor · 29-05-2012 9:27am

Liam O wrote: »

I have a sneaky feeling Fergie may try out Kagawa as part of a 2 man midfield beside Carrick quite early. Carrick does a lot of defensive work and Kagawa can't be worse (though he's probably as bad) defensively as Cleverly. I'd be interested to see it anyway.

kagawa is, apparently, a lot worse than Cleverley defensively.

He isn't a two man central midfield player - we sign him and it signals a move to a 3 man midfield.

Hoping we sign Kagawa, add Powel to that, as he is a bright prospect who can play up front or as a support player (so another player for that 'new' role) and a more defensive type of midfielder and we'd be fairly sorted imo.

Fenix · 29-05-2012 9:28am

I'd be raging if we did that, why spend a fortune on players who show potential and ability in a position to then turn round and play them out of position... Anderson was among the highest rated young 'number 10s' around, hes now a mediocre defensive mid who's best mates with the physio, Jones has gone utterly backwards havin played as a fullback after impressing in a more natural def mid role for England.

****it, sneeky bid for Iker Casillas, could have him in the hole behind Rooney.

Mitch Connor · 29-05-2012 9:28am

Des wrote: »

Maybe the tactical genius that is Mike Phelan has finally talked Fergie into playing with and sticking to a 4-2-3-1 for the whole season, instead of the out-dated old fashioned and frankly tired 4-4-2 that gets found out all too often.
Carrick Scholes
Nani/Val
Kaga
Young
Rooney

That is how I see it going, but we need a different partner for Carrick. I just can't see scholes being effective enough over the course of a full season. Cleverley or Anderson, if they could stay fit enough would be,potentially, good options there as both have a lot of energy and good work rate.

Fenix · 29-05-2012 9:35am

Mitch Connor wrote: »

That is how I see it going, but we need a different partner for Carrick. I just can't see scholes being effective enough over the course of a full season. Cleverley or Anderson, if they could stay fit enough would be,potentially, good options there as both have a lot of energy and good work rate.

How long are we going to give Anderson? I'd love to see him injury free and playing (well) consistently, but I'm more than starting to get fed up, to be honest I think we should be thinkin about cutting out losses and looking for a long term sucessor. Oh how I would love Javi Martinez, resigned to the fact that's not going to happen.

kippy · 29-05-2012 9:36am

Fenix wrote: »

I'd be raging if we did that, why spend a fortune on players who show potential and ability in a position to then turn round and play them out of position... Anderson was among the highest rated young 'number 10s' around, hes now a mediocre defensive mid who's best mates with the physio, Jones has gone utterly backwards havin played as a fullback after impressing in a more natural def mid role for England.

****it, sneeky bid for Iker Casillas, could have him in the hole behind Rooney.

Writing off Jones, typical.

Mitch Connor · 29-05-2012 9:36am

Was mooted a week or so ago, by Miguel Delany, that United were looking at Modric and Hazard as top targets this summer but that only one could be bought - with Hazard now gone I wonder if there was truth to this and if so, will we see a move for Modric.

Carrick--Modric
Valencia----Kagawa----Nani/Young

Rooney

Now, that would have me excited for the season ahead.

I do think Modric is more gettable this summer than last summer in terms of possibly being available for enough less than the 40million that was rejected last summer. With no CL football again this season and the prospect of a rejuvenated Chelsea making 4th spot that much harder to get, Modric could angle even more for a move this summer. I do believe a Ronaldo-esque deal may have been done with him last summer - stay for the season gone and you can have your move next summer if we don't make the CL. Maybe.

Obviously it isn't the most likely of transfer deals, and his participation in the Euro's would likely make a move for him a protracted one.

Mitch Connor · 29-05-2012 9:37am

Fenix wrote: »

How long are we going to give Anderson? I'd love to see him injury free and playing (well) consistently, but I'm more than starting to get fed up, to be honest I think we should be thinkin about cutting out losses and looking for a long term sucessor. Oh how I would love Javi Martinez, resigned to the fact that's not going to happen.

It doesn't matter how long I would give him. He is still a part of the United squad and there have been no real indications that he could be on his way this summer. While he is still part of the squad I have to imagine how we could look to use him. A fit Anderson showing the type of form and ability we have seen in all to rare flashes would be a very good partner for Carrick in a 4231 formation, imo.

Your Airbag · 29-05-2012 9:38am

Kagawas on the way by the looks of it, I suppose that rules us out of the running for Sneidjers signature then :pac:

Jax Teller · 29-05-2012 9:39am

I'll go mad if we have to rely on Scholes in cm next season .

Blatter · 29-05-2012 9:40am

Mitch Connor wrote: »

That is how I see it going, but we need a different partner for Carrick. I just can't see scholes being effective enough over the course of a full season. Cleverley or Anderson, if they could stay fit enough would be,potentially, good options there as both have a lot of energy and good work rate.

We could do with a Fellaini type signing. I hope the reported interest in Asomoah is real. Solid as a rock and very good on the ball.

Mitch Connor · 29-05-2012 9:42am

Blatter wrote: »

We could do with a Fellaini type signing. I hope the reported interest in Asomoah is real. Solid as a rock and very good on the ball.

Apparently there is a plan for juve to loan Pogba to Udinese immediately upon signing him, and bring in Asamoah from Udinese.

So we'd lose a top youth prospect and a potential transfer target in the same deal. Nice.

Wonder if the match fixing issues will have an affect on the plans though.

Jax Teller · 29-05-2012 9:44am

^^^^ why would they ? They don't involve Juventus at all only their manager from a previous job .

Mitch Connor · 29-05-2012 9:45am

Coletrickle88 wrote: »

^^^^ why would they ? They don't involve Juventus at all only their manager from a previous job .

Hadn't looked into it much - just read Conte was implicated so thought Juve might be involved.

Blatter · 29-05-2012 9:46am

Yeah, Juventus have been linked with him more than us. He would be a great signing though, especially at the price quoted.

I do wish the Pogba situation could be announced already, it seems fairly certain that he's leaving.

Your Airbag · 29-05-2012 9:50am

Has there been anymore about those rumours of interest in Kevin-Prince Boateng?

It makes sense that we were linked with him. He is an attacking midfeilder, 25 and on very low wages for a first teamer at Milan, 30,000 clams a week I think.

He would not be a bad squad option imo and wouldn't cost us big in terms of wages. He also turned in some good preformances for Milan this season.

Fenix · 29-05-2012 9:53am

kippy wrote: »

Writing off Jones, typical.

Did you even read the post? I said he's gone backwards playing in a position that he's never played in before. I think he will be our future captain if played in the correct position, maybe I need to check the definition of 'writing off'.

Good input though.

Macca07 · 29-05-2012 9:53am

Still nothing official from Chelsea about the signing of Hazard...

I'm holding out until I see him holding the Chelsea jersey.

homerjay2005 · 29-05-2012 9:54am

Coletrickle88 wrote: »

I'll go mad if we have to rely on Scholes in cm next season .

woudlnt surprise me one bit. sad thing is, if we had scholes all season, we probably would have won the league. even if he came back 2 weeks earlier (not sure possible with squad reg) we wouldnt have lost to blackburn.

they type of CM we are being linked to, suggest that Scholes wont be replaced this summer either.

tallaghtmick · 29-05-2012 9:57am

I'm not bitter about Hazard,the choice of London or Manchester is a no brainer especially as he will get more game time with Chelsea,as for Pogba tbh he can fcuk off,any player taking this long to decide has no loyalty to the club.

Fenix · 29-05-2012 9:58am

Mitch Connor wrote: »

It doesn't matter how long I would give him. He is still a part of the United squad and there have been no real indications that he could be on his way this summer. While he is still part of the squad I have to imagine how we could look to use him. A fit Anderson showing the type of form and ability we have seen in all to rare flashes would be a very good partner for Carrick in a 4231 formation, imo.

I agree with you, however are you satisfied that Anderson will stay injury free for a whole season? If we do well with him playing regularly, then he gets injured, and leaves us with no real backup...

I've said before that the problem is certainly not his ability or quality, my problem is that he can't be relied upon to be fit when needed.

Mitch Connor · 29-05-2012 10:07am

Fenix wrote: »

I agree with you, however are you satisfied that Anderson will stay injury free for a whole season? If we do well with him playing regularly, then he gets injured, and leaves us with no real backup...

I've said before that the problem is certainly not his ability or quality, my problem is that he can't be relied upon to be fit when needed.

No, I don't trust him. Just as I wouldn't trust Scholes, Giggs, Cleverley or especially Fletcher over the course of a season. We need serious rebuilding in midfielder but we aren't going to get it until it is actually impossible to select them.

Blatter · 29-05-2012 10:07am

Fenix wrote: »

I agree with you, however are you satisfied that Anderson will stay injury free for a whole season? If we do well with him playing regularly, then he gets injured, and leaves us with no real backup...

I've said before that the problem is certainly not his ability or quality, my problem is that he can't be relied upon to be fit when needed.

Well even when he is fit, he's still unreliable. He can go on a run of 5 or 6 good games where he's working hard and things are going well. Then he seems to think he's cracked it and puts his feet up for a few games while turning in horrendous performances. And then inevitably picks up his routine long term injury.

I'd be happy to give him another year, purely because I think the (low) chance of him coming good is worth the gamble when you weigh it up against the low fee we'd get for him if we were to sell.

froog · 29-05-2012 10:14am

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Was mooted a week or so ago, by Miguel Delany, that United were looking at Modric and Hazard as top targets this summer but that only one could be bought - with Hazard now gone I wonder if there was truth to this and if so, will we see a move for Modric.
Carrick--Modric
Valencia----Kagawa----Nani/Young
Rooney

Now, that would have me excited for the season ahead.

I do think Modric is more gettable this summer than last summer in terms of possibly being available for enough less than the 40million that was rejected last summer. With no CL football again this season and the prospect of a rejuvenated Chelsea making 4th spot that much harder to get, Modric could angle even more for a move this summer. I do believe a Ronaldo-esque deal may have been done with him last summer - stay for the season gone and you can have your move next summer if we don't make the CL. Maybe.

Obviously it isn't the most likely of transfer deals, and his participation in the Euro's would likely make a move for him a protracted one.

would you not like one of those two midfield spots to be a defensive minded mid like m'villa? carrick and modric kind of do the same job no? with three attacking mids behind the striker, you should have one deep lying playmaker and one defensive mid imo.

FutureGuy · 29-05-2012 10:32am

Kagawa, a DM, Baines and a promising player.

That would be ideal for me tbh.

adox · 29-05-2012 10:32am

froog wrote: »

would you not like one of those two midfield spots to be a defensive minded mid like m'villa? carrick and modric kind of do the same job no? with three attacking mids behind the striker, you should have one deep lying playmaker and one defensive mid imo.

Carrick and Modric are completely different players. Carrick has mainly defensive duties at Utd, while being tidy if unspectacular in distribution when given time.

Modric is all about creativity from the centre of the park, more so than Hazard or Kagawa who could both play a more attacking role, but neither could play in Modric`s cm position.

Red Crow · 29-05-2012 10:51am

Macca07 wrote: »

Still nothing official from Chelsea about the signing of Hazard...

I'm holding out until I see him holding the Chelsea jersey.

Why? He has picked Chelsea. Get over it. People are seriously losing the head over a guy they have barely seen play. It's a good piece of business from Chelsea but they needed him far more than ourselves or City would.

Delighted that Kagawa is popping back up again, although I'm guessing that is part of the fallout from nobody being able to gossip about Hazard any more.

As regards Asamoah, it's reported this morning in the Gazzetta that Udinese want 40 Million Euros for Asamoah and Isla from Juventus.

froog · 29-05-2012 11:00am

adox wrote: »

Carrick and Modric are completely different players. Carrick has mainly defensive duties at Utd, while being tidy if unspectacular in distribution when given time.

Modric is all about creativity from the centre of the park, more so than Hazard or Kagawa who could both play a more attacking role, but neither could play in Modric`s cm position.

but he's only been used in that respect from a complete lack of options no?

and modric has been given defensive duties as well the last two seasons. like i said, the same type of midfielder - deep lying playmakers who are adaptable.

united need a proper defensive mid.

Blatter · 29-05-2012 11:05am

Kagawa is currently a better player (probably) than Hazard but the draw back is that Hazard is just under two years younger and has a better chance of becoming a really great player.

If you look at the league statistics, which aren't everything by any means but are quite important to consider comparing these type of players who are relied upon to deliver goals/assists.

Kagawa: 31 games, 13 goals and 11 assists (0 penalties)

Hazard: 38 games, 20 goals and 15 assists (8 penalties)

And the Bundesliga >>> Ligue 1, I think we can all agree on that.

Mitch Connor · 29-05-2012 11:12am

froog wrote: »

but he's only been used in that respect from a complete lack of options no?

and modric has been given defensive duties as well the last two seasons. like i said, the same type of midfielder - deep lying playmakers who are adaptable.

united need a proper defensive mid.

I'd like to see us sign one, as I do think it is something we lack (with luck Cleverley and/or Anderson could be a Modric type of player) but I just don't think we are going to do it - unless we do indeed go for Stoorman (or however it is spelled) from PSV.

Giggsy11 · 29-05-2012 11:15am

Blatter wrote: »

Kagawa is currently a better player (probably) than Hazard but the draw back is that Hazard is just under two years younger and has a better chance of becoming a really great player.

If you look at the league statistics, which aren't everything by any means but are quite important to consider comparing these type of players who are relied upon to deliver goals/assists.

Kagawa: 31 games, 13 goals and 11 assists (0 penalties)

Hazard: 38 games, 20 goals and 15 assists (8 penalties)

And the Bundesliga >>> Ligue 1, I think we can all agree on that.

One great thing about Hazard is he played all the league games in 2 seasons. 76 out of 76 games.

If you look at last 2 seasons league stats only there isn't much between them. But like I said in my previous post, Kagawa had to make the step up from Japanese league to German league, but still delivered.

Last 2 seasons:
Hazard: 76 games - 27 goals - 25 assists
Kagawa: 49 games - 21 goals - 12 assists.

I didn't check the penalty stats, but considering Hazard scored 8 last season alone makes Kagawa stats look even better.

homerjay2005 · 29-05-2012 11:20am

FutureGuy wrote: »

Kagawa, a DM, Baines and a promising player.

That would be ideal for me tbh.

considering that fergie said 2 weeks ago that in his 25 plus years at united, he never has played a DM, why on earth would he sign one now?

carrick, fletcher,ando are close enough to DMs for his liking and thats enough. if fletcher and ando are not involved next year, then we could sign a player in that mould, (i.e ball retention and back 4 protection as opposed to springing 90 passes a game and scoring goals/creating goals).

its creativity and ball retention in the middle united need first and foremost. as it stands, fergie considers carrick, scholes, fletcher, anderson, cleverly and pogba as our CM, with park and giggs as back up.

the key is will pogba, ando and fletcher all be at the club next season? there is a chance, that we may not sign anybody unless one player leaves and if that is pogba, then Powell would be his replacement.

i think kagawa is being signed as a replacement for Berba, with a chance of tactics following, with another creative player being signed also. we apparently big for Asemoah but that is yet to be confirmed.

in summary - f*ck knows whats going to happen, there are too many permutations in uncertain futures about fletcher, pogba and anderson. if those 3 stay, i wouldnt be surprised if we dont sign a proper CM, and then its kagawa, Powell,Clyne and maybe somebody like Guitan or a low cost striker.

i think all united fans are either going to be really happy or massivly let down this summer, there is no in between.

Blatter · 29-05-2012 11:24am

Giggsy11 wrote: »

One great thing about Hazard is he played all the league games in 2 seasons. 76 out of 76 games.

If you look at last 2 seasons league stats only there isn't much between them. But like I said in my previous post, Kagawa had to make the step up from Japanese league to German league, but still delivered.

Last 2 seasons:
Hazard: 76 games - 27 goals - 25 assists
Kagawa: 49 games - 21 goals - 12 assists.

I didn't check the penalty stats, but considering Hazard scored 8 last season alone makes Kagawa stats look even better.

If Kagawa was European or South American, he'd be be rated far higher and more talked about imo. The fact that he's Asian and played in Japan until he was 21 has contributed hugely to his relative anonymity in comparison to the likes of Hazard.

Jax Teller · 29-05-2012 11:26am

homerjay2005 wrote: »

considering that fergie said 2 weeks ago that in his 25 plus years at united, he never has played a DM, why on earth would he sign one now?

i think kagawa is being signed as a replacement for Berba, with a chance of tactics following, with another creative player being signed also. we apparently big for Asemoah but that is yet to be confirmed.

isnt this Asamoah a defensive minded player ?

Blatter · 29-05-2012 11:27am

Coletrickle88 wrote: »

isnt this Asamoah a defensive minded player ?

He's forward thinking but very combative. Essien type player.

Macca07 · 29-05-2012 11:27am

Eli Manning wrote: »

Why? He has picked Chelsea. Get over it. People are seriously losing the head over a guy they have barely seen play. It's a good piece of business from Chelsea but they needed him far more than ourselves or City would.

Because I'm an optimist and would like to see the best players in the world signing for United.

His transfer has been a complete circus and I honestly think there is another turn in this transfer saga.

Giggsy11 · 29-05-2012 11:29am

Blatter wrote: »

If Kagawa was European or South American, he'd be be rated far higher and more talked about imo. The fact that he's Asian and played in Japan until he was 21 has contributed hugely to his relative anonymity in comparison to the likes of Hazard.

Which also suits us perfectly. If he makes it big at United, he will be Asian hero just like how Park was.

If we trust Klopp words then Kagawa's dream is to play in the Premier league which means, if we sign him he will stay for many years rather than using us as spring board for Spanish giants (Which is what I think Hazard will do after few years).

_blank_ · 29-05-2012 11:30am

Macca07 wrote: »

Because I'm an optimist and would like to see the best players in the world signing for United.

What was the last time United signed a "world class" player?

Ronaldo was developed at the club.

van Nistelrooy is probably the last time United actually signed a player who would have been coveted higely by other clubs at the time of the transfer.

Possibly Berbatov being kidnapped off City.

Mitch Connor · 29-05-2012 11:34am

Coletrickle88 wrote: »

isnt this Asamoah a defensive minded player ?

http://www.whoscored.com/Players/35549

Averaged 2 and a half tackles per game, and just over 1 interception per game, last season. Not breathtaking for a defensive player - don't watch the italian league so can't say what he actually looks like on the pitch. Have heard him described as Essien with better dribbling, less pace. No idea if it is true.

In comparison:

Michael Carrick - 3 tackles and 2.4 interceptions per game.
Luka Modric - 1.6 tackes, 2.3 interceptions.
Yann M'Vila - 3.1 tackles, 2.5 interceptions.

(league only)

Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12

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