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Water Fluoridation

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    #122
    locum-motion
    Registered Users Posts: 5,143 ✭✭✭locum-motion


    WildBoots wrote: »
    The Irish Medicines Board declared that fluoride is "not a medicine" and has "never been proven safe or effective for use on humans." Is this the unfounded nonsense you are talking about?


    No, they didn't. You said that Kathy Sinnott said that they declared that. What Kathy Sinnott actually said was:
    I wrote to the Irish Medical Board or the Irish Medicines Board last year and I asked them if they had ever reviewed flouride, had they ever given it approval, and they said it's never been sent to them.

    Now, you don't know, and I don't know, exactly how the IMB's reply to Kathy Sinnott was worded. We only know what Kathy said they said. But she certainly didn't say what you said she said they said.
    As I said before, the IMB's remit is the regulation of medicinal products. Not medicinal substances. You've been using the two terms as if they were interchangable. They're not.
    I'd be willing to bet that the IMB's answer to Kathy's enquiry said something along the lines of: Fouridated drinking water is not a medicinal product, and therefore we have nothing to do with granting permission for it, and nobody has ever asked us to. But they'd probably dress it up in much more official-sounding language than that.


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    #123
    locum-motion
    Registered Users Posts: 5,143 ✭✭✭locum-motion


    A
    WildBoots wrote: »
    Are you suggesting that Kathy Sinnott is making up lies about the IMB?

    B
    WildBoots wrote: »
    ...According to Kathy Sinnott, the Irish Medicines Board declared that fluoride is not a medicine and has never been proven safe or effective for use on humans( I think this is what she stated in the video more or less)....

    I find it amazing that people have chosen to concentrate on what was nothing more than a small typing error...

    C
    WildBoots wrote: »
    I was quoting what she said, I'm sure if she made it up she would have been sued by now.

    A: Nobody suggested that.
    B: KS said nothing of the sort. See above. Also, it wasn't a simple typing error. You were putting words into her mouth that she never said.
    C: No, you weren't quoting her. At best you were attributing to her what you wish she'd said (and I'm being charitable to you by characterising it it that manner. At worst you were deliberately misquoting her to further your agenda. Either way, I hope you enjoy your 10-day holiday from this forum.

    WildBoots banned.


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    #124
    opinion guy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,001 ✭✭✭✭opinion guy


    if this is any help i think this is what wildboots is referring to (youtube - 10 seconds to find).
    Wildboots it doesn't really say what you recalled it does. Althou she does highlight quite an odd little point here.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HboWZlznAis

    at 3:58


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    #125
    locum-motion
    Registered Users Posts: 5,143 ✭✭✭locum-motion


    opinion guy wrote: »
    if this is any help i think this is what wildboots is referring to (youtube - 10 seconds to find).
    Wildboots it doesn't really say what you recalled it does. Althou she does highlight quite an odd little point here.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HboWZlznAis

    at 3:58

    That's exactly the bit I quoted in post # 122 above.


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    #126
    opinion guy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,001 ✭✭✭✭opinion guy


    locum-motion wrote: »
    That's exactly the bit I quoted in post # 122 above.

    Oh right sorry - I did look back but I was looking for a video and must have missed that.

    But to be fair - you did leave out something that kathy sinnott said. The full quote was:
    I wrote to the Irish Medical Board or the Irish Medicines Board last year and I asked them if they had ever reviewed flouride, had they ever given it approval, and they said it's never been sent to them.
    So the law says its there as medicine, yet you can not have any medicines in ireland that hasn't been thru the irish medicines board and was never sent to them


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    #127
    zenno
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,377 ✭✭✭zenno


    for the original poster...

    I would keep clear of flouridated water as it is bad for you and your doctor is right. many EU countries will not allow flouride in their water supply at all because of the health risks it causes. from what i have heard some bottled water contains flouride as well so it is hard to find non flouridated water these days. EU countries are doing the right thing by not allowing their water to be flouridated. there are many idiots here that will totally get enraged when you tell them the truth but just ignore them.

    the european health and safety council were supposed to release their true findings on the dangers of flouridated water in ireland and some other EU countries but i am still waiting on their scientific findings. if it ever comes out.


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    #128
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,226 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    zenno wrote: »
    for the original poster...

    I would keep clear of flouridated water as it is bad for you and your doctor is right. many EU countries will not allow flouride in their water supply at all because of the health risks it causes. from what i have heard some bottled water contains flouride as well so it is hard to find non flouridated water these days. EU countries are doing the right thing by not allowing their water to be flouridated. there are many idiots here that will totally get enraged when you tell them the truth but just ignore them.

    the european health and safety council were supposed to release their true findings on the dangers of flouridated water in ireland and some other EU countries but i am still waiting on their scientific findings. if it ever comes out.
    Thing is you're not telling the truth in that post are you?

    Many of the EU countries fluoridate their salt.
    The ones who do not, aren't refusing to do so based on the safety of fluoridation.
    There has been tons of studies showing the effectiveness and safety of fluoride, which I posted earlier.

    But hey why bother addressing these things when you see no problem sticking your fingers in your ears and singing LALALALALA?


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    #129
    zenno
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,377 ✭✭✭zenno


    King Mob wrote: »
    Thing is you're not telling the truth in that post are you?

    Many of the EU countries fluoridate their salt.
    The ones who do not, aren't refusing to do so based on the safety of fluoridation.
    There has been tons of studies showing the effectiveness and safety of fluoride, which I posted earlier.

    But hey why bother addressing these things when you see no problem sticking your fingers in your ears and singing LALALALALA?

    you are giving false information. have you even bothered to research this topic ?

    other EU countries are given the choice whether they want to use flouride as we here in ireland are forced to use it, read the facts and stop giving falsified information. http://www.fluoridealert.org/fluoride-facts.htm


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    #130
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,226 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    zenno wrote: »
    you are giving false information. have you even bothered to research this topic ?
    Yes. I provided a bunch of good well conducted studies showing the effectiveness and safety of fluoridation.
    Did you bother to read them?
    zenno wrote: »
    other EU countries are given the choice whether they want to use flouride as we here in ireland are forced to use it,
    So they do indeed fluoridate their salt?
    And that not a single country stopped fluoridation due to it's "dangers".
    zenno wrote: »
    read the facts and stop giving falsified information. http://www.fluoridealert.org/fluoride-facts.htm
    The irony is delicious.
    You do realise how ridiculously biased the site is?


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    #131
    locum-motion
    Registered Users Posts: 5,143 ✭✭✭locum-motion


    The flouridated salt thing has come up a couple of times. I'd like to see some data for which countries flouridate their salt and which flouridate their water (and which do neither), it anyone has it please?


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    #132
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,226 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    locum-motion wrote: »
    The flouridated salt thing has come up a couple of times. I'd like to see some data for which countries flouridate their salt and which flouridate their water (and which do neither), it anyone has it please?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluoridation_by_country

    It's incomplete, but it's the most neutral list I can find.


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    #133
    ballsymchugh
    Registered Users Posts: 7,936 ✭✭✭ballsymchugh


    this thread is still going??

    York Review people!!

    http://www.york.ac.uk/inst/crd/fluoridnew.htm


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    #134
    bleg
    Registered Users Posts: 5,848 ✭✭✭bleg


    Opinion guy
    So the law says its there as medicine, yet you can not have any medicines in ireland that hasn't been thru the irish medicines board and was never sent to them

    That's funny as there are plenty of herbalists and homeopaths out there using products as medicines that haven't been through any regulation process.


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    #135
    ballsymchugh
    Registered Users Posts: 7,936 ✭✭✭ballsymchugh


    bleg wrote: »
    Opinion guy



    That's funny as there are plenty of herbalists and homeopaths out there using products as medicines that haven't been through any regulation process.


    haha. and neither have they!!


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    #136
    sam34
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,073 ✭✭✭sam34


    zenno wrote: »
    for the original poster...

    I would keep clear of flouridated water as it is bad for you and your doctor is right. many EU countries will not allow flouride in their water supply at all because of the health risks it causes. from what i have heard some bottled water contains flouride as well so it is hard to find non flouridated water these days. EU countries are doing the right thing by not allowing their water to be flouridated. there are many idiots here that will totally get enraged when you tell them the truth but just ignore them.

    the european health and safety council were supposed to release their true findings on the dangers of flouridated water in ireland and some other EU countries but i am still waiting on their scientific findings. if it ever comes out.


    welcome to the forum.

    please note that this is a scientific discussion forum. if you make a claim such as the one bolded above, you need to back it up with reliable scientific sources.

    please dont call others on this forum idiots.


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    #137
    opinion guy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,001 ✭✭✭✭opinion guy


    ballsymchugh wrote: »
    this thread is still going??

    York Review people!!

    http://www.york.ac.uk/inst/crd/fluoridnew.htm

    2003. Thats old. Like I said I fluoride is not my issue, but I do know there have been a bunch of studies out of China on fluoride in recent years.
    bleg wrote: »
    Opinion guy



    That's funny as there are plenty of herbalists and homeopaths out there using products as medicines that haven't been through any regulation process.

    Ok.
    First thing - I didn't say what you quoted. It was taken from a video of Kathy Sinnott relevant to above discussion. I was quoting it for general information since there had been debate and misinterpretation of this point.

    Second thing - relevance of herbalism and homeopathy to this discussion ?


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    #138
    ballsymchugh
    Registered Users Posts: 7,936 ✭✭✭ballsymchugh


    opinion guy wrote: »
    2003. Thats old. Like I said I fluoride is not my issue, but I do know there have been a bunch of studies out of China on fluoride in recent years.

    ah China. everything that comes out of there must be true.


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    #139
    opinion guy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,001 ✭✭✭✭opinion guy


    ballsymchugh wrote: »
    ah China. everything that comes out of there must be true.

    Read it and find out.


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    #140
    zenno
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,377 ✭✭✭zenno


    for anyone that has not read this or has forgot about it in 2005 should have a read here http://homepage.eircom.net/~aud/home.htm

    dentists have being constantly giving the government a review of the health risks associated with flouride in drinking water, but nothing has been done. it should be taken out of the water supply asap.

    for people afraid of comming forward such as dentists and other health experts in relation to this mass medication of the irish people they should come forward anonymously and give their expertise on the health risks on flouridating the irish water supply.


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    #141
    ballsymchugh
    Registered Users Posts: 7,936 ✭✭✭ballsymchugh


    opinion guy wrote: »
    Read it and find out.

    any chance of a link??
    this is the same country where bribing the local party officials to get your way is pretty routine. on a bit of a segue, but that would be the reason why poorly built schools and houses collapsed in the earthquake last year, and where rodent's milk was given to kids in school.

    sorry, i would prefer to stick to a systematic peer review of all the evidence, than something from China.


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    #142
    ballsymchugh
    Registered Users Posts: 7,936 ✭✭✭ballsymchugh


    zenno wrote: »
    for anyone that has not read this or has forgot about it in 2005 should have a read here http://homepage.eircom.net/~aud/home.htm

    dentists have being constantly giving the government a review of the health risks associated with flouride in drinking water, but nothing has been done. it should be taken out of the water supply asap.

    for people afraid of comming forward such as dentists and other health experts in relation to this mass medication of the irish people they should come forward anonymously and give their expertise on the health risks on flouridating the irish water supply.

    they say in the first part that their group has over 100 members, but the letter only has 15 signatories. that's a tiny tiny minority of dentists in ireland. i've been working in ireland for over a year and i've yet to hear anything from don mcauley. that group seems to have gone to ground after that blaze of publicity a few years ago.


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    #143
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,226 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    zenno wrote: »
    for anyone that has not read this or has forgot about it in 2005 should have a read here http://homepage.eircom.net/~aud/home.htm

    dentists have being constantly giving the government a review of the health risks associated with flouride in drinking water,     but nothing has been done. it should be taken out of the water supply asap.

    for people afraid of comming forward such as dentists and other health experts in relation to this mass medication of the irish people they should come forward anonymously and give their expertise on the health risks on flouridating the irish water supply.
    Can you back this up in any way?


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    #144
    zenno
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,377 ✭✭✭zenno


    ballsymchugh wrote: »
    they say in the first part that their group has over 100 members, but the letter only has 15 signatories. that's a tiny tiny minority of dentists in ireland. i've been working in ireland for over a year and i've yet to hear anything from don mcauley. that group seems to have gone to ground after that blaze of publicity a few years ago.

    maybe they are afraid of losing their jobs for speaking out.

    the final european results should be out soon i'm sure so will see what they all have to say, and that should put an end to this problem once and for all.


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    #145
    ballsymchugh
    Registered Users Posts: 7,936 ✭✭✭ballsymchugh


    zenno wrote: »
    maybe they are afraid of losing their jobs for speaking out.

    the final european results should be out soon i'm sure so will see what they all have to say, and that should put an end to this problem once and for all.

    technically we are self employed. there is no one that can fire us unless we're working as an associate in a practice, and then the only way you'd get fired is by constantly acting the bollox or putting the patients at risk. you won't get fired for having a personal opinion as long as you have the right evidence to back it up.

    i'm looking forward to this study. if it says that fluoride should be taken out of the water, then it'll make my day a little bit busier. having worked in a part of the uk which didn't have fluoridated water, and now in ireland, the difference, especially in kids, is unreal.


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    #146
    zenno
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,377 ✭✭✭zenno


    King Mob wrote: »
    Can you back this up in any way?

    as of 2001 they have been in contact with the government on this issue, why do you think the european health and safety council are doing at this moment an in depth study of flouride.

    Dentists begin anti-fluoridation campaign
    [Posted: Fri 26/10/2001 - www.irishhealth.com]
    by Deborah Condon
    A group of dentists will today deliver a letter to the Dail, demanding an immediate end to the fluoridation of water in Ireland.
    Irish Dentists Opposing Fluoridation (IDOF) is a support group for dental professionals who wish to express their opposition to the addition of fluoride to drinking water.
    According to the group, fluoridation is 'undemocratic, unethical and unsafe'.
    "Most dentists would refuse to prescribe for a patient he/she has never met, whose medical history he/she does not know, a substance which is intended to create bodily change for the rest of their life. This is the water fluoridation ethos", IDOF said.
    The letter being delivered to the Dail has been signed by 15 dentists, demanding an immediate end to water fluoridation in Ireland.
    In addition, the group intends to provide an education database of the current scientific literature showing, what it claims is, the 'health and dental damage caused by fluoride/fluoridation.


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    #147
    ballsymchugh
    Registered Users Posts: 7,936 ✭✭✭ballsymchugh


    zenno wrote: »
    as of 2001 they have been in contact with the government on this issue, why do you think the european health and safety council are doing at this moment an in depth study of flouride.

    Dentists begin anti-fluoridation campaign
    [Posted: Fri 26/10/2001 - www.irishhealth.com]
    by Deborah Condon
    A group of dentists will today deliver a letter to the Dail, demanding an immediate end to the fluoridation of water in Ireland.
    Irish Dentists Opposing Fluoridation (IDOF) is a support group for dental professionals who wish to express their opposition to the addition of fluoride to drinking water.
    According to the group, fluoridation is 'undemocratic, unethical and unsafe'.
    "Most dentists would refuse to prescribe for a patient he/she has never met, whose medical history he/she does not know, a substance which is intended to create bodily change for the rest of their life. This is the water fluoridation ethos", IDOF said.
    The letter being delivered to the Dail has been signed by 15 dentists, demanding an immediate end to water fluoridation in Ireland.
    In addition, the group intends to provide an education database of the current scientific literature showing, what it claims is, the 'health and dental damage caused by fluoride/fluoridation.

    you'd think they'd share their information with other dentists too. they've been gathering the info for 9 years and still nothing??


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    #148
    zenno
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,377 ✭✭✭zenno


    ballsymchugh wrote: »
    technically we are self employed. there is no one that can fire us unless we're working as an associate in a practice, and then the only way you'd get fired is by constantly acting the bollox or putting the patients at risk. you won't get fired for having a personal opinion as long as you have the right evidence to back it up.

    i'm looking forward to this study. if it says that fluoride should be taken out of the water, then it'll make my day a little bit busier. having worked in a part of the uk which didn't have fluoridated water, and now in ireland, the difference, especially in kids, is unreal.

    you are a dentist not a scientist it seems you just believe what you have been tought. although i respect dentists we still have to get to the bottom of this. other dentists and scientists from all countries that are worried about this flouride are not going out of their way just to piss people off, they are genuinely worried about the health effects of flouridation.


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    #149
    locum-motion
    Registered Users Posts: 5,143 ✭✭✭locum-motion


    zenno wrote: »
    for anyone that has not read this or has forgot about it in 2005 should have a read here http://homepage.eircom.net/~aud/home.htm

    dentists have being constantly giving the government a review of the health risks associated with flouride in drinking water, but nothing has been done. it should be taken out of the water supply asap.

    for people afraid of comming forward such as dentists and other health experts in relation to this mass medication of the irish people they should come forward anonymously and give their expertise on the health risks on flouridating the irish water supply.

    So, five years ago, a body representing 15 - yes, fifteen - dentists held a press conference. Out of what? A couple of thousand dentists in the country? Woo hoo!


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    #150
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,226 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    zenno wrote: »
    as of 2001 they have been in contact with the government on this issue, why do you think the european health and safety council are doing at this moment an in depth study of flouride.
    Public demand spurred on by scaremongering and misinformation.
    There are already many studies showing the effectiveness and safety of fluoridation.
    I posted a sample of these eariler in the thread.
    zenno wrote: »
    Dentists begin anti-fluoridation campaign
    [Posted: Fri 26/10/2001 - www.irishhealth.com]
    by Deborah Condon
    A group of dentists will today deliver a letter to the Dail, demanding an immediate end to the fluoridation of water in Ireland.
    Irish Dentists Opposing Fluoridation (IDOF) is a support group for dental professionals who wish to express their opposition to the addition of fluoride to drinking water.
    According to the group, fluoridation is 'undemocratic, unethical and unsafe'.
    "Most dentists would refuse to prescribe for a patient he/she has never met, whose medical history he/she does not know, a substance which is intended to create bodily change for the rest of their life. This is the water fluoridation ethos", IDOF said.
    The letter being delivered to the Dail has been signed by 15 dentists, demanding an immediate end to water fluoridation in Ireland.
    In addition, the group intends to provide an education database of the current scientific literature showing, what it claims is, the 'health and dental damage caused by fluoride/fluoridation.
    So which bit of this is a "reviewof the health risks associated with flouride in drinking water"?


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    #151
    zenno
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,377 ✭✭✭zenno


    quote: you'd think they'd share their information with other dentists too. they've been gathering the info for 9 years and still nothing?? endquote/

    well this is the whole point now as we are all waiting on the results from the european council.


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