Extension Build < 40sqm Planning > 40sqm

Farlo77 · 04-01-2015 11:05pm #1

Hi All,

I have planning permission to extend an existing 3 bed semi with attached single story garage/kitchen. Planning application was made in February 2014 and granted in April 2014. Permission is granted for 2 Parts:

Part 1: First Floor extension above existing attached garage/kitchen. 25sqm. Effectively take off the existing roof, raise the existing walls and put the roof back on.

Part 2: Ground Floor extension to rear of existing main house. 30 sqm. Open plan kitchen/living room.

Bottom line is that we cannot go ahead with Part 2 (cost and tracker rate mortgage complications). Now I am uncertain where I stand in relation to new building regulations requirements as the extension I am going ahead with is < 40sqm. I have 3 options but am not sure how valid the Options are:

Option 1 (preferred): Proceed with Part 1 assuming the build is < 40sqm - exempt from new building regulation requirements (Assigned Certifier, Commencement Notice etc.).

Option 2: Proceed with Part 1 assuming the build is > 40sqm (as granted by planning) although the actual build < 40sqm. All that goes with new building regulations will apply and likely to cost me at least €2-3k although a very small extension.

Option 3: Re-apply for planning permission with the just the 25sqm part included. Build will be exempt from new building regulation requirements (Assigned Certifier, Commencement Notice etc.). Will delay the build by a couple of months but costs will be small < €300.

Any advice greatly appreciated. Are all 3 options valid and if so then obviously Option 1 is a no brainer.

Regards,
Martin.

BryanF · 04-01-2015 11:41pm

3 simplest

Ask your arch to write to local building control for clarity on 1

Farlo77 · 05-01-2015 12:19am

BryanF wrote: »

3 simplest

Ask your arch to write to local building control for clarity on 1

Thanks Bryan,

I don't have an architect. It's a very simple build. I was thinking of calling my local building control office to see if I could speak to someone who can advise. I will do that tomorrow and post back how I get on.

BryanF · 05-01-2015 12:45am

Farlo77 wrote: »

Thanks Bryan,

I don't have an architect. It's a very simple build. I was thinking of calling my local building control office to see if I could speak to someone who can advise. I will do that tomorrow and post back how I get on.

Imo You need a response from BC in writing

DOCARCH · 05-01-2015 7:20am

Just bear in mind that if you have planning permission for Parts 1 + 2...and...you only build Part 1 or Part 2, you will not be in compliance with your planning permission until Parts 1 + 2 are actually built/complete.

Safer option, if you only foresee Part 1 being built at this point, is to go with Option 3 and seek new/revised planning for the part you intend to build now.

Gumbo · 05-01-2015 10:07am

Farlo77 wrote: »

Thanks Bryan,

I don't have an architect. It's a very simple build. I was thinking of calling my local building control office to see if I could speak to someone who can advise. I will do that tomorrow and post back how I get on.

Where are you based?

Farlo77 · 05-01-2015 11:21pm

UPDATE:

I spoke to a very helpful guy in Cork Building Control today. In summary:

- Building Control and Planning are completely separate unrelated departments (I was aware of this but just said I would put it down here for clarity).
- Commencement Notice must be for what you are actually going to construct - not what you have planning for - 99 times in a 100 they will be the same.
- I must submit a Short Form Commencement notice (or Commencement Notice without Documentation) as my build will be < 40sqm.
- If submitting a Commencement Notice without documentation, then the key thing is to be very clear and detailed in the Project description what we are going ahead with e.g. '25sqm First Floor Extension above existing Kitchen/Utility.....'
- You must name the Designer, Builder and Customer in the Short Form Commencement Notice and all 3 must be registered on the Building Control Online system.
- Assigned certifier will not apply in my case (< 40sqm).

However, as DOCARCH says above, that will still leave me with a planning issue as I am only doing Part 1. In an ideal world I would like to leave the planning as it is so I could the option to return to do the 2nd part in 2-3 years time assuming my mortgage situation changes. But if I never do Part 2, where does that leave me? I have submitted a query to my planning officer seeking clarification.

KCEIRE : I am based in Midleton, Cork.

BryanF · 06-01-2015 12:48am

As it stands if you don't complete both parts, you'll be in breach of your granted planning - the bit you do finish makes you non-compliant.

Traditionally you would apply for retention. But under the new BCA this is untested.

You do have the duration of your grant to complete the works, but if you feel that's not going to happen, then re-applying is the safest.

You could in fact reapply with 2 applications, (both parts of the work separately) and in that way you can complete one or the other or both.

Let's see what cork coco Responds with. (In writing only )

EmmetF · 06-01-2015 4:32pm

Farlo77 wrote: »

Part 1: First Floor extension above existing attached garage/kitchen. 25sqm. Effectively take off the existing roof, raise the existing walls and put the roof back on.

Option 1 (preferred): Proceed with Part 1 assuming the build is < 40sqm - exempt from new building regulation requirements (Assigned Certifier, Commencement Notice etc.).

Just to clarify this for you, an extension on the first floor of greater than 12m² is not exempted development.

SCHEDULE 2 - PART 1 - Exempted Development — General
(b) Subject to paragraph (a), where the house is terraced or semi-detached, the floor area of any extension above ground level shall not exceed 12 square metres.

DOCARCH · 06-01-2015 4:47pm

EmmetF wrote: »

Just to clarify this for you, an extension on the first floor of greater than 12m² is not exempted development.

SCHEDULE 2 - PART 1 - Exempted Development — General
(b) Subject to paragraph (a), where the house is terraced or semi-detached, the floor area of any extension above ground level shall not exceed 12 square metres.

Apples and oranges here!

What was referred to in the posts above is exemption from the Building Control (Amendment) Regulations and not planning. I think the OP is aware the first floor extension over the garage does require planning permission.

EmmetF · 07-01-2015 4:41pm

DOCARCH wrote: »

Apples and oranges here!

What was referred to in the posts above is exemption from the Building Control (Amendment) Regulations and not planning. I think the OP is aware the first floor extension over the garage does require planning permission.

Sorry, I think I completely missed the whole point of this thread! Carry on...

chikatee · 29-01-2015 9:50pm

EmmetF wrote: »

Just to clarify this for you, an extension on the first floor of greater than 12m² is not exempted development.

SCHEDULE 2 - PART 1 - Exempted Development — General
(b) Subject to paragraph (a), where the house is terraced or semi-detached, the floor area of any extension above ground level shall not exceed 12 square metres.

Just to clarify...it is possible to extend upstairs to an area greater than 12 metres squared providing planning permission is granted? Building dummy here. Or in any extension, permission or not, is 12 metres squared the max for upstairs?

Gumbo · 29-01-2015 10:10pm

chikatee wrote: »

Just to clarify...it is possible to extend upstairs to an area greater than 12 metres squared providing planning permission is granted? Building dummy here. Or in any extension, permission or not, is 12 metres squared the max for upstairs?

You can build greater than 12 Sq.M upstairs once you have planning for it.
12 Sq.M can be exempt upstairs depending on how big downstairs has been done without planning. Max 28 ground, 12 upstairs.

BryanF · 29-01-2015 10:46pm

kceire wrote: »

You can build greater than 12 Sq.M upstairs once you have planning for it.
12 Sq.M can be exempt upstairs depending on how big downstairs has been done without planning. Max 28 ground, 12 upstairs.

+ Subject to some other conditions http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2001/en/si/0600.html#sched2
Minus other existing extensions

Extension Build < 40sqm Planning > 40sqm

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