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Formula 1 2015: General Discussion Thread

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Comments

  • #1752
    Zcott
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,206 ✭✭✭Zcott


    Right, and that's why I said that's probably not where the fault is. The fault seems to be in the packaging of the whole thing in the back of the car, which you can't test. Still, for someone like Renault the issue seems to be overall power and driveability, the first of which can be improved on a dyno.


  • #1753
    challengemaster
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,930 ✭✭✭✭challengemaster


    Zcott wrote: »
    Right, and that's why I said that's probably not where the fault is. The fault seems to be in the packaging of the whole thing in the back of the car, which you can't test. Still, for someone like Renault the issue seems to be overall power and driveability, the first of which can be improved on a dyno.

    At the rate Renault power units are blowing up in expensive clouds of smoke, they probably don't want to dyno any of their engines. Each time one goes pop it's a few million $$$ up in smoke.


  • #1754
    Frank Bullitt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,891 ✭✭✭✭Frank Bullitt


    1978890_944502372297758_3850804046833294033_n.jpg?oh=e862fc2a3b5d0d8c0717ef343284d142&oe=562DE17A

    It looks like someone is playing a game of Jumanji on that top.


  • #1755
    Frank Bullitt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,891 ✭✭✭✭Frank Bullitt


    He is also getting a bashing on twitter from his appearance on TFIF.


  • #1756
    Brian_Zeluz
    Registered Users Posts: 445 ✭✭Brian_Zeluz


    Hulkenberg wins Le Mans during the break while Hamilton goes to a fashion show, bloody hell.


  • #1757
    Myrddin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭Myrddin


    Brian_Zeluz wrote: »
    Hulkenberg wins Le Mans during the break

    Will that raise Nico's stock in F1 a bit? Or is he doomed to a midfield career?


  • #1758
    Going Strong
    Registered Users Posts: 837 ✭✭✭Going Strong


    Myrddin wrote: »
    Will that raise Nico's stock in F1 a bit? Or is he doomed to a midfield career?

    Looking at a long and fruitful endurance racing career hopefully. Seeing the list of manufacturers already involved or soon to be involved in WEC makes F1 look quite poor by comparison.


  • #1759
    Myrddin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭Myrddin


    Going Strong wrote: »
    Looking at a long and fruitful endurance racing career hopefully. Seeing the list of manufacturers already involved or soon to be involved in WEC makes F1 look quite poor by comparison.

    So you reckon he might switch to Endurance? Interesting, it'd be F1's loss I think


  • #1760
    Harika
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,492 ✭✭✭Harika


    Myrddin wrote: »
    Will that raise Nico's stock in F1 a bit? Or is he doomed to a midfield career?

    Nico was always seen as hot option, but because he is quite big and, without being overweight, heavy, was always a bit out of the competition for the top teams. (A smaller/lighter driver leaves more space for aerodynamics and his ideal weight is also lower, what gives benefits)


  • #1761
    Harika
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,492 ✭✭✭Harika


    Going Strong wrote: »
    Looking at a long and fruitful endurance racing career hopefully. Seeing the list of manufacturers already involved or soon to be involved in WEC makes F1 look quite poor by comparison.

    WEC is in its fourth year and so far all other Endurance Racing Series have gone belly up after some years, like GT1 at the end of the 90s when Mercedes came and opened their check book to win what drove Porsche away what then meant the end of the GT1 class. Peugeot went already away and Toyota doesn't seem to happy either putting a lot of money now into the car to make it competitive again. And as brands they are highly likely to pull the plug at any time. See BMW after the 1999 win in LeMans.
    WEC looks only good when you look at everything in F1 that goes wrong, besides that there is a long way to get the exposure you get in F1 or just think of the winner in the LMP2 class, who was that? Or who won the GTE Pro class? So it is fine to be in the winners spotlight of LMP1, behind that you are in no mans land, except for experts.


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  • #1762
    Brendan Flowers
    Registered Users Posts: 1,378 ✭✭✭Brendan Flowers


    Brian_Zeluz wrote: »
    Hulkenberg wins Le Mans during the break while Hamilton goes to a fashion show, bloody hell.

    Even if Hamilton did want to take part in Le Mans do you honestly think Mercedes are just going to allow their main driver to go off and race for Porsche or Audi? And he is currently having is best start ever to an F1 season. I for one wouldnt begrudge the man a bit of downtime inbetween races.


  • #1763
    Myrddin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭Myrddin


    Yeah I know the height thing goes against Hulkenberg, it's a shame, he's demonstrated loads of times that he's got racing in his blood. I'd love to see what he could do in the Williams, half of me wouldn't mind seeing the back of Massa as he's become a bit of a loud mouth in recent times while rarely impressing on track.


  • #1764
    Frank Bullitt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,891 ✭✭✭✭Frank Bullitt


    I would like to see Hulk in a decent car, he would be suited to running at the front.

    Not to mention, he has been out performing the car this year to a decent degree.


  • #1765
    PopePalpatine
    Registered Users Posts: 11,964 ✭✭✭✭PopePalpatine


    I'd love to see him at Ferrari or Williams, although I'm not sure if the latter will remain competitive. Knowing Hulk's luck, they'll probably fall back into the midfield when he joins them.


  • #1766
    Frank Bullitt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,891 ✭✭✭✭Frank Bullitt


    Possibly stick him in the Ferrari if Kimis goes again? Rumour has it that they are interested in Bottas also.


  • #1767
    tigerboon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 726 ✭✭✭tigerboon


    Harika wrote: »
    WEC is in its fourth year and so far all other Endurance Racing Series have gone belly up after some years

    Maybe, but with the major manufacturers currently in WEC, hopefully competitive Nissan next year and rumours of a BMW LMP1 entry, it is becoming a very good series. The racing is great with a handful of seconds covering the top places. The likes of Forza and Gran Turismo have also introduced Le Mans to a new audience. Also, can Mercedes stay in F1 if their main commercial competitors are at Le Mans?


  • #1768
    Brian_Zeluz
    Registered Users Posts: 445 ✭✭Brian_Zeluz


    Myrddin wrote: »
    Will that raise Nico's stock in F1 a bit? Or is he doomed to a midfield career?

    I can't see how it wouldn't! If the opportunities his talent deserves don't materialise I think there would be a number of WEC teams more than happy to accommodate him. Languishing in the F1 midfield forever being a wasted talent or having a far more successful sporstcar/prototypes career, seems like an easy choice to me.


  • #1769
    Harika
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,492 ✭✭✭Harika


    tigerboon wrote: »
    Also, can Mercedes stay in F1 if their main commercial competitors are at Le Mans?

    Mercedes are battling BMW and Audi in the DTM, with making this series a global one, racing in Japan and the US. So they are doing this already. If they go to the WEC, they are two years at least behind in development time, so earliest 2018 with a full scale entry, meanwhile there will be new F1 regulations coming for 2017 and I don't see them stepping back from F1, when they get all the headlines there. How many people watched the F1 race in Silverstone and how many the WEC race?


  • #1770
    mickdw
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,462 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    Am I right in saying the wec porsches are petrol hybrid while the audi is diesel hybrid. A big step towards a return to petrol engines for the man on the street I would have thought


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  • #1771
    PopePalpatine
    Registered Users Posts: 11,964 ✭✭✭✭PopePalpatine


    Yep, the 919 has a petrol V4 (a bit of me wonders why they didn't go with Porsche's famous boxer engines) coupled with a hybrid powertrain while the Audi R18 has a diesel V6, also paired with a hybrid powertrain.


  • #1772
    eviltimeban
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,107 ✭✭✭eviltimeban


    Gintonious wrote: »
    He is also getting a bashing on twitter from his appearance on TFIF.

    He was pretty uninteresting, but what made it worse was that the show turned into a mini Top Gear, which sort of killed the fun. If Hamilton had had a five minute slot like all the other guests, that would've been OK. But his "I've a great team" demeanour was never going to work in a show famous for loud mouth guests! :)

    As for the racing, been reading stuff here and on the PlanetF1 forum; it seems the only way to battle 'lift and coast' is to have a standard fuel amount that all teams must use. That amount would be enough to get them to the end if they raced flat out, they could calculate it based on average lap times. Some engines will be more economical and use their fuel quicker, therefore making the car lighter and faster, and this could throw up some surprises.


  • #1773
    _rebelkid
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,886 ✭✭✭_rebelkid


    Let the tyre war begin.


    Michelin submits bid to become Formula 1 tyre supplier from 2017


  • #1774
    mb1725
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,381 ✭✭✭mb1725


    Artist's impression of Ferrari on 18" wheels:

    F1F-Michelin_18s-F138-886x590.jpg


  • #1775
    Zcott
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,206 ✭✭✭Zcott


    I think 18" wheels look fantastic, but the engineers hate it.


  • #1776
    oneofakind32
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,304 ✭✭✭oneofakind32


    _rebelkid wrote: »
    Let the tyre war begin.


    Michelin submits bid to become Formula 1 tyre supplier from 2017

    USGP 2005, #neverforget


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  • #1777
    mickdw
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,462 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    Zcott wrote: »
    I think 18" wheels look fantastic, but the engineers hate it.

    Why do engineers hate it? Sure it requires completely different setup theory but I would have thought that the change would take much of the movement out of the tyre, movement that was hard to control or accurately model and put some more movement back in the suspension that can be thoroughly engineered.


  • #1778
    Myrddin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭Myrddin


    mickdw wrote: »
    Why do engineers hate it? Sure it requires completely different setup theory but I would have thought that the change would take much of the movement out of the tyre, movement that was hard to control or accurately model and put some more movement back in the suspension that can be thoroughly engineered.

    From my understanding, bigger wheels have a 'gearing' effect on a car, so in essence, the bigger the wheels the more torque is needed to reach a given speed that smaller wheels would reach with less torque? They'd also add weight too.


  • #1779
    YbFocus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,480 ✭✭✭YbFocus


    Unsprung weight would be greater. It has x4 the effect of sprung weight.
    Although it would be interesting to see if less tyre outweighs more rim.


  • #1780
    _rebelkid
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,886 ✭✭✭_rebelkid


    Myrddin wrote: »
    From my understanding, bigger wheels have a 'gearing' effect on a car, so in essence, the bigger the wheels the more torque is needed to reach a given speed that smaller wheels would reach with less torque? They'd also add weight too.

    That and the suspension will have to be a lot softer. With the current 13 in wheel, the tyre sidewall is fairly large, and that is most of the overall suspension travel of the car. Take that away, and you have to get the compliance from somewhere.


  • #1781
    Cookie_Monster
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,522 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    bigger brakes though


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  • #1782
    Myrddin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭Myrddin


    Cookie_Monster wrote: »
    bigger brakes though

    Harder to heat :pac:


  • #1783
    mickdw
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,462 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    Alot of talk here about unsprung weight and torque requirements.
    Considering f1 tech, I wouldn't be surprised if there was little change in weight of a wheel and tyre combined versus the current setup.
    Also, is it known whether the overall rolling radius is going to Change? Brundle drove something with bigger wheels and said it was hard to see enough on approach to corners.
    Either way, I still see the change as a huge new avenue for development in suspension tuning etc whereas currently they are limited by a big wobbly tyre.


  • #1784
    ScumLord
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,789 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    Myrddin wrote: »
    From my understanding, bigger wheels have a 'gearing' effect on a car, so in essence, the bigger the wheels the more torque is needed to reach a given speed that smaller wheels would reach with less torque? They'd also add weight too.
    I thought that mostly applied to big wide tyres. A guy with a bike told me something similar, he said that there is a point where making the tyre any bigger/wider begins to negatively affect the car bike because there's more mass and rolling resistance.

    An 18" F1 tyre is going to be roughly the same outside diameter and width but with more magnesium wheel and less plastic tyre. I would have assumed the tyre compound was probably heavier than the magnesium wheel. Whether is easier or harder to rotate the 18" wheel it's going to affect the engine and gearing either way. I could see a lighter wheel causing just as many problems in that the engine could over rev expecting a heavier wheel.

    I think the braking advantage from having more space in the wheel would help reduce brake issues and give faster lap times. It would require a complete redesign of the suspension system though.


  • #1785
    jasonb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,336 ✭✭✭jasonb


    Is there anywhere on the Southside of Dublin to watch the race live and maybe grab a bite of food on Sunday?

    Thanks...

    J.


  • #1786
    Charlie-Bravo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,684 ✭✭✭Charlie-Bravo


    Poor form from Setanta as they are not showing the Austrian practise sessions live.

    -. . ...- . .-. / --. --- -. -. .- / --. .. ...- . / -.-- --- ..- / ..- .--.



  • #1787
    Sterling Archer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,252 ✭✭✭Sterling Archer


    11406418_931341266922328_3485137232778402752_o.jpg


  • #1788
    _rebelkid
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,886 ✭✭✭_rebelkid


    Austrian GP Race Thread


  • #1789
    Frank Bullitt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,891 ✭✭✭✭Frank Bullitt


    Red bull again affirming that they might leave the sport.

    Talk about throwing your toys out of the pram.


  • #1790
    PopePalpatine
    Registered Users Posts: 11,964 ✭✭✭✭PopePalpatine


    I'd imagine the Austrian GP would be a tad awkward without them on the grid. :pac:


  • #1791
    Myrddin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭Myrddin


    Can F1 afford the crapstorm that would be a major team leaving the sport? What would the fallout be if Red Bull did indeed leave, would a works team come in & buy them out?


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  • #1792
    Harika
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,492 ✭✭✭Harika


    I think Renault would be happy to buy them, but you also have to think of the negative fallout for Red Bull if they simply close the doors, 1000+ people will be on the streets, lot of negative PR for the company that simply goes away. F1 has dealt with a lot of teams walking away, HRT, Catherham, BMW, Toyota recently or in general, so this is nothing new. On the other side, applications for new teams are open, Haas is coming, so even if they walk away with both teams, F1 will survive.


  • #1793
    Myrddin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭Myrddin


    Harika wrote: »
    but you also have to think of the negative fallout for Red Bull if they simply close the doors, 1000+ people will be on the streets

    Presumably though if they were bought out, the majority of the jobs would be saved no?


  • #1794
    Harika
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,492 ✭✭✭Harika


    Myrddin wrote: »
    Presumably though if they were bought out, the majority of the jobs would be saved no?

    Sure but who really has the money to buy them? But let's say Red Bull leaves and hands over to Renault or for the argument IBM. No changes to be expected, I doubt Chris Horner or anyone else would be sacked.
    Would there be a crap storm over this?


  • #1795
    Myrddin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭Myrddin


    Harika wrote: »
    Sure but who really has the money to buy them? But let's say Red Bull leaves and hands over to Renault or for the argument IBM. No changes to be expected, I doubt Chris Horner or anyone else would be sacked.
    Would there be a crap storm over this?

    Probably not, & the damage would be to Red Bulls own brand only, with F1 retaining the team albeit under a new name? Red Bull would defend its decision by stating F1 is a joke, & F1 would defend itself by saying Red Bull weren't complaining when they were hoovering up constructors titles. After a season or two we'd probably all forget it & have something new to discuss :D


  • #1796
    Harika
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,492 ✭✭✭Harika


    Myrddin wrote: »
    After a season or two we'd probably all forget it & have something new to discuss :D

    I doubt the discussions would even survive the winter break. Australia maybe, oh yeah Red Bull is missing, we have now X. And then forgotten. Like Caterham is missing 8 months and if they wouldn't have fought for survival news had stopped in October.


  • #1797
    Myrddin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭Myrddin


    Harika wrote: »
    Like Caterham is missing 8 months and if they wouldn't have fought for survival news had stopped in October.

    True but there's a tad bit of a difference between Red Bull & Caterham. It's no surprise to see backend teams coming & going, but to see a team who were in some ways almost untouchable for three seasons, go from that to an exit in two seasons would be more profound.


  • #1798
    Infoanon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,705 ✭✭✭Infoanon


    Myrddin wrote: »
    True but there's a tad bit of a difference between Red Bull & Caterham. It's no surprise to see backend teams coming & going, but to see a team who were in some ways almost untouchable for three seasons, go from that to an exit in two seasons would be more profound.

    They said the same about Lotus and Brabham, imho anyone who thought a drinks company would be in F1 for the long term was fooling themselves


  • #1799
    Myrddin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭Myrddin


    Infoanon wrote: »
    They said the same about Lotus and Brabham, imho anyone who thought a drinks company would be in F1 for the long term was fooling themselves

    But you could turn that around & say anyone who thought a drinks company would be driver AND constructor champions for four seasons in a row would have been fooling themselves no?


  • #1800
    christy c
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,197 ✭✭✭christy c


    Even if Renault bought Red Bull which isn't certain, what about Torro Rosso? Not many would have the cash to run 2 teams. It would be a huge blow to F1, to think otherwise would be daft.

    Having said that, I think RB are just trying to play hard ball


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  • #1801
    Going Strong
    Registered Users Posts: 837 ✭✭✭Going Strong


    Harika wrote: »
    I think Renault would be happy to buy them, but you also have to think of the negative fallout for Red Bull if they simply close the doors, 1000+ people will be on the streets, lot of negative PR for the company that simply goes away. F1 has dealt with a lot of teams walking away, HRT, Catherham, BMW, Toyota recently or in general, so this is nothing new. On the other side, applications for new teams are open, Haas is coming, so even if they walk away with both teams, F1 will survive.

    It's a strange strategy by Red Bull though as they basically gave Audi the "Come here big boy" routine earlier this year but that failed and now they're trying the "You're too ugly to f***" approach to Renault. It does suggest though that Mateschitz wants out and doesn't care who knows it. We could be looking at two teams and an engine supplier gone by the end of next season.


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