how to fix creaking floor/joists

conorsomahony · 18-12-2014 5:32pm #1

Hi,

Recently renovated a house and got an extension done - just have one small problem where the floor in the extension part of the 1st floor creaks or cracks when walking on it. I believe it is the joists rather than the floorboards/subfloor that are causing the noise. There was some acoustic plasterboard put down on the floorboards to see if that would help with the noise but it still creaks/cracks and now the room itself (and room underneath) has been finished out with skirting, carpet, and painted etc.

Does anyone have any ideas as to how I can get it fixed? I saw this product that uses a screw to find the joists and then other screws are screwed into the joists through the carpet (so that the carpet doesn't have to be taken up) - but I guess this might not work since there is plasterboard on top of the subfloor, and since the problem might be the joists rather than the boards I'm not sure it would work.

I wouldn't like to take up the carpet and off the skirtings if possible, but if it was necessary then I would consider it.

Any suggestions appreciated, thanks,

North West · 19-12-2014 9:33pm

Hi. Sounds like the floor boards are creaking. What type of floor boards are down - Whjte deal - red deal or other ?. Are they face nailed or secret nailed ?. Face nailed is nailed straight down through the face of board, secret nailed is at a 45 deg through tongue of board to hide nails.
NW

BryanF · 19-12-2014 9:38pm

It's a big job but lift (can be destructive & matching of timber required but) , glue & screw effected areas.

conorsomahony · 19-12-2014 11:48pm

Would that work for both creaking floorboards and creaking joists? Or would you do something different depending on what was causing the creaking?

BryanF · 20-12-2014 11:06am

Creaking joists: add bracing

conorsomahony · 22-12-2014 1:01am

I dont think this is something I would do myself - Do you think it is a piece of work that other people would give recommendations for in the Construction Sticky thread?

Drift · 22-12-2014 11:44am

Is the creaking very bad? Adding bracing correctly is not an easy job on a floor with a finished ceiling beneath.

P.S. If you go that route I'd imagine herringbone bracing may give a slightly better results. (This is only an opinion though - I have no proof to back it up!)

conorsomahony · 23-12-2014 12:53am

Drift wrote: »

Is the creaking very bad? Adding bracing correctly is not an easy job on a floor with a finished ceiling beneath.

P.S. If you go that route I'd imagine herringbone bracing may give a slightly better results. (This is only an opinion though - I have no proof to back it up!)

It is not very bad, but it is bad enough in certain parts that I am considering what the options are to fix it.

I'm trying to figure out if it is something that people do get someone in to fix, or would builders etc not like to take on such a job?

I have leftover paint etc for touching up the walls and skirtings but would the damage to the finished room be even more than that?

Drift · 23-12-2014 11:53am

To be honest personal experience has told me that once you lift a timber floor it'll never be quite the same again unless you pretty much replace it completely. From your OP I'm not sure what the build-up of your floor is but you may need cutting/chopping to lift it plus you're talking about lifting the entire floor to address the joists. That's messy and dusty.

Then there's the ceiling that's attached to the underside of the joists. Although it is possible to address the joists without damaging the underlying ceiling it's not easy. Any little slip of the hammer etc. will crack the ceiling below. In fact hammering in bracing alone might do that. And patch repairs to a plaster ceiling ALWAYS look sh*te.*

All timber floors creak to some degree so unless it's really bad I'd be considering leaving it. Does it affect your quality of life?

I'm sure a good carpenter would take on the job but I'm also pretty sure he won't guarantee any results!

Also - are you certain it's the joists?

*N.B. Slight exageration used for effect!

conorsomahony · 23-12-2014 3:33pm

Drift wrote: »

To be honest personal experience has told me that once you lift a timber floor it'll never be quite the same again unless you pretty much replace it completely. From your OP I'm not sure what the build-up of your floor is but you may need cutting/chopping to lift it plus you're talking about lifting the entire floor to address the joists. That's messy and dusty.

Then there's the ceiling that's attached to the underside of the joists. Although it is possible to address the joists without damaging the underlying ceiling it's not easy. Any little slip of the hammer etc. will crack the ceiling below. In fact hammering in bracing alone might do that. And patch repairs to a plaster ceiling ALWAYS look sh*te.*

All timber floors creak to some degree so unless it's really bad I'd be considering leaving it. Does it affect your quality of life?

I'm sure a good carpenter would take on the job but I'm also pretty sure he won't guarantee any results!

Also - are you certain it's the joists?

*N.B. Slight exageration used for effect!

We haven't fully moved into the new house yet - we had/have creaky floorboards in the old house so I had been looking forward to creak-less floors in the new house, which is why I would still try and fix it now if I could. In the old house I wear ear plugs at night so that I won't hear the creaking floorboards when my partner is getting up earlier than me and she is walking around the room.

The noise seems to be at a similar level but a different type of noise, it is more of a "crack" rather than a "creak" (if that makes sense) and it seems to be under the floorboards - which is why I felt it was the joists rather than the floor itself.

So from what you are saying, it would be fixable, but not guaranteed, and might cause damage to ceiling underneath.
Would laying new floorboards on top of the joists help (as well as doing the bracing of the joists) or would that just be more expense with no guarantee of a result?

Drift · 23-12-2014 4:00pm

I'm really not an expert on creaking or timber movement Conor so take my comments as educated speculation if there is such a thing! I was just trying to give you an idea of the work/cost involved and the lack of any guarantees regarding success.

In general I assume that the more solid/rigid you can make the floor the less creaking you would get. However that has its own downsides in terms or sound transmission, resonance, etc. It sounds like you are particularly sensitive to creaking. I'm pretty sure it's too late now but hollowcore or concrete first floors might have been worth considering.

Another problem I forsee is gradual "bedding-in" of the structure and changes in moisture level of the timbers which means that creaking may change over time as you live in the house. Even if you were to completely remove it now you might get new creaks in years to come. Timber, like all building materials, expands and contracts as moisture levels and temperature change so you're never going to be able to make the floor into a totally non-moving mass (nor would you want to).

Is the heating on in the house yet? That will have a huge impact on the timber elements (and also the concrete parts.)

What type of floor boards do you have at present? Is it tongue and groove boards or some form of manufactured panel (e.g. ply)?

I think (again without any evidence) that spreading the load over multiple joists rather than one or two might help reduce the creaking.

Maybe brace the joists heavily, thick ply firmly fixed to the joists, thick underlay, heavy carpet might be the best you can do - absolutely no guaratees though.

conorsomahony · 23-12-2014 4:39pm

Drift wrote: »

I'm really not an expert on creaking or timber movement Conor so take my comments as educated speculation if there is such a thing! I was just trying to give you an idea of the work/cost involved and the lack of any guarantees regarding success.

In general I assume that the more solid/rigid you can make the floor the less creaking you would get. However that has its own downsides in terms or sound transmission, resonance, etc. It sounds like you are particularly sensitive to creaking. I'm pretty sure it's too late now but hollowcore or concrete first floors might have been worth considering.

Another problem I forsee is gradual "bedding-in" of the structure and changes in moisture level of the timbers which means that creaking may change over time as you live in the house. Even if you were to completely remove it now you might get new creaks in years to come. Timber, like all building materials, expands and contracts as moisture levels and temperature change so you're never going to be able to make the floor into a totally non-moving mass (nor would you want to).

Is the heating on in the house yet? That will have a huge impact on the timber elements (and also the concrete parts.)

What type of floor boards do you have at present? Is it tongue and groove boards or some form of manufactured panel (e.g. ply)?

I think (again without any evidence) that spreading the load over multiple joists rather than one or two might help reduce the creaking.

Maybe brace the joists heavily, thick ply firmly fixed to the joists, thick underlay, heavy carpet might be the best you can do - absolutely no guaratees though.

Heating has been on for the past couple of months - the creaking has been there though since before that.
The floor that was put down I think was some sort of plywood sheets, rather than tongue and groove boards.

Anyway it doesn't sound like something that can be fixed easily so I will have to think about it and maybe put up something on the "Looking for a tradesperson" sticky in this forum...

BryanF · 23-12-2014 5:00pm

Ahh.. The boards should have been glued to joists and screwed in place

conorsomahony · 23-12-2014 5:03pm

BryanF wrote: »

Ahh.. The boards should have been glued to joists and screwed in place

Is there any way to determine if the noise is actually caused by the boards, or the joists, (or both) without taking up the carpet?

BryanF · 23-12-2014 5:41pm

Ask A good tradesmen/carpenter to visit.

North West · 24-12-2014 12:18am

Hi
There is one of two things happening,
1. The nails have loosened in the ply.
2. The boards have expanded and as you walk, they are rubbing against each other.

If the nails are loosened, draw a line across floor on nail line and screw down boards.
If the sheets are rubbing, get a skill saw and set depth to thickness of ply and run the saw between edges both the len and width, then screw them. You would know if you loosen carpet and walk on the seams of sheets and you will hear it.
NW

how to fix creaking floor/joists

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