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Mick Wallace and Clare Daly reportedly arrested at Shannon airport.

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    #62
    EazyD
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,207 ✭✭✭EazyD


    comongethappy wrote: »
    I'm going to suggest as a counterpoint that the majority don't give a damn.

    Thereby contradicting our status as a neutral. Ah but sure who gives a fiddlers about that?......


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    #63
    bajer101
    Registered Users Posts: 2,178 ✭✭✭bajer101


    opinionated3 wrote: »
    How do you know what the majority think? Anyone I've talked to around my locality fully supports it. Just cos a shower of left wing crusties say something doesn't means it's accurate.

    Because in successive opinion polls the majority have stated that they want to retain Irish neutrality. That stands up a bit more than what a few of your mates think. And do they really fully support illegal rendition?
    comongethappy wrote: »
    I'm going to suggest as a counterpoint that the majority don't give a damn.

    I would say that quite a lot of people do give a damn. But regardless of numbers, Daly and Wallace give a damn and enough people voted for them to be elected.


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    #64
    wicklowstevo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 919 ✭✭✭wicklowstevo


    comongethappy wrote: »
    The sexual tension is driving them to do crazy things!

    aye a lovely candle lit dinner in the cells for them :)
    seriously its fairly blatant thought,
    hope thier respective partners dont mind :pac::pac::pac::pac:


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    #65
    geeky
    Registered Users Posts: 2,380 ✭✭✭geeky


    Bambi wrote: »
    Just remembering all the people-who-know best on here that clucked and pishawed about mickah wallace banging on about the whistle blowers, who was proven right that time lads?

    May his manky locks flow ever on through the corridors of power, for he is our jim garrison

    Very sensible point. I disagree with a lot of Wallace's views - and cringe whenever I see him wandering about like a hobo - but his work on the Garda whistleblowers should earn him some credit.


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    #66
    Specialun
    Registered Users Posts: 3,068 ✭✭✭Specialun


    isn't wallace a hypocrite?

    did he not benefit from garda leniency too?


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    #67
    comongethappy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,753 ✭✭✭comongethappy


    EazyD wrote: »
    Thereby contradicting our status as a neutral. Ah but sure who gives a fiddlers about that?......

    Does it?

    How exactly does that work?


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    #68
    Coat22
    Registered Users Posts: 1,789 ✭✭✭Coat22


    How can these people continue to hold public office after such behaviour? We’re the only “developed” nation where you can openly flaunt the laws you are hired to develop and uphold and yet hold onto your job.

    Wallace is a convicted tax fraud and now this. Daly is a born attention seeker with little in the way of inteligence who wins voted with her populist stunts like Flanagan and the afore mentioned Wallace.

    IF they are charged and found guilty then they should be removed from office. Not that it will make much difference – the good people of Wexford, Dublin South central (or wherever) and Roscomoon will probably then elect their children / partners to replace them and “stick it up to the establishment” or whatever their motives are.

    Dictatorship is looking more and more attractive every day in this country,


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    #69
    AlanG
    Registered Users Posts: 1,414 ✭✭✭AlanG


    My name is URL wrote: »
    haha.. great point

    People will undoubtedly call for Wallace and Daly to be locked up over this, pretending that they give a **** about the laws of the land, while at the same time excusing the fact that the law of the land is routinely ignored and unenforced when Shannon is used by foreign militaries.

    This is interesting. Could you explain which Law is being ignored and why the ongoing transit flights via Shannon are illegal. I am not talking about the rendition flights that may likely happened in the past. I cant find any statute that makes it illegal for foreign troops to transit through Irish ports. It would be great if you could expand on this.


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    #70
    The Caveman
    Registered Users Posts: 285 ✭✭The Caveman


    Released without charge, and a file was sent someware to somebody about it

    Wonder if the Girlfriend and I will be treated the same if we were to do it tomorrow....


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    #71
    comongethappy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,753 ✭✭✭comongethappy


    The Caveman wrote: »
    Released without charge, and a file was sent someware to somebody about it

    Wonder if the Girlfriend and I will be treated the same if we were to do it tomorrow....

    If your girlfriend is a 900 year old woman in a jumpsuit.... she will be lauded as a hero.


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    #72
    bajer101
    Registered Users Posts: 2,178 ✭✭✭bajer101


    comongethappy wrote: »
    Does it?

    How exactly does that work?

    How does allowing Shannon be used a military hub affect out neutrality?? Seriously? I suppose if we also allowed any military aircraft from any country, carrying whatever, we could retain our neutrality that way. Mightn't be the best solution though. Although judging by some of the comments here apparently some people wouldn't mind as it might bring in a few more jobs!


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    #73
    Coat22
    Registered Users Posts: 1,789 ✭✭✭Coat22


    The Caveman wrote: »
    Released without charge, and a file was sent someware to somebody about it

    Wonder if the Girlfriend and I will be treated the same if we were to do it tomorrow....

    I'd say so - yes


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    #74
    Awkward Badger
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,414 ✭✭✭Awkward Badger


    Say what ya want about them but they're not afraid to get their hands dirty. And the plain fact is that the Dail is better with those two in it than a couple party politicians nodding away with the Government.


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    #75
    comongethappy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,753 ✭✭✭comongethappy


    bajer101 wrote: »
    How does allowing Shannon be used a military hub affect out neutrality??

    Yes.... That's the question I'd like you to answer.

    A plane of soldiers watching movies & reading books stops in Shannon for fuel.... Ergo, Ireland is no longer neutral..... Its a stretch.

    I'm just seeking confirmation.... Perhaps from statute.... or any legal definition.


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    #76
    diomed
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,744 ✭✭✭diomed


    The Dáil only went on holidays on 18th July. Do they have to write a composition "What I did on my summer holidays" when they get back?
    http://www.independent.co.uk/incoming/article9233996.ece/binary/original/web-school-children-alamy.jpg


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    #77
    My name is URL
    Registered Users Posts: 25,060 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    AlanG wrote: »
    This is interesting. Could you explain which Law is being ignored and why the ongoing transit flights via Shannon are illegal. I am not talking about the rendition flights that may likely happened in the past. I cant find any statute that makes it illegal for foreign troops to transit through Irish ports. It would be great if you could expand on this.

    There are strict conditions attached to the use of Shannon by foreign militaries. One of which is that persons passing through the airport are prohibited (or supposedly at least) from being armed.
    Tánaiste and Foreign Affairs Minister Eamon Gilmore has confirmed that a US aircraft landed at Shannon Airport armed with a ‘weapon’, in contravention of strict conditions for such landings in Ireland.

    These conditions include that the military aircraft landing here are unarmed, carry no arms, ammunition, or explosives, do not engage in intelligence gathering, and that the flights in question do not form any part of military exercises or operations

    http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/us-plane-landed-at-shannon-armed-with-weapon-admits-gilmore-246664.html

    I asked if Gardai or anybody else inspects planes to make sure they are not carrying arms. A reasonable question imo.


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    #78
    Davarus Walrus
    Registered Users Posts: 1,280 ✭✭✭Davarus Walrus


    The hack of Wallace and Daly. It's utterly preposterous that Mork and Mindy are somehow seen as being figureheads of a legitimate protest movement. This action is the type of thing that appeals to crusty malcontents, but causes the majority to immediately discount their actions as those carried out by beatniks looking to massage their own egos'.


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    #79
    EazyD
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,207 ✭✭✭EazyD


    comongethappy wrote: »
    Does it?

    How exactly does that work?

    Thought it was pretty obvious to be honest. By allowing U.S military to utilise our airports as a drop-off hub for troops, military aircraft and above all weaponry.


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    #80
    Judgement Day
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    Coat22 wrote: »
    How can these people continue to hold public office after such behaviour? We’re the only “developed” nation where you can openly flaunt the laws you are hired to develop and uphold and yet hold onto your job.

    Wallace is a convicted tax fraud and now this. Daly is a born attention seeker with little in the way of inteligence who wins voted with her populist stunts like Flanagan and the afore mentioned Wallace.

    IF they are charged and found guilty then they should be removed from office. Not that it will make much difference – the good people of Wexford, Dublin South central (or wherever) and Roscomoon will probably then elect their children / partners to replace them and “stick it up to the establishment” or whatever their motives are.

    Dictatorship is looking more and more attractive every day in this country,

    Mick Wallace was NOT convicted of tax fraud. He made a settlement with the revenue commissioners. Why not check your facts instead of perpetuating this rubbish. I presume from the rest of your post it's an FF Dictatorship you would favour - we've had that.


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    #81
    comongethappy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,753 ✭✭✭comongethappy


    EazyD wrote: »
    Thought it was pretty obvious to be honest. By allowing U.S military to utilise our airports as a drop-off hub for troops, military aircraft and above all weaponry.

    No... It'd not obvious.

    How does transiting troops or kit legally change a nations military alignment?


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    #82
    Coat22
    Registered Users Posts: 1,789 ✭✭✭Coat22


    Awkward Badger wrote: »
    Say what ya want about them but they're not afraid to get their hands dirty. And the plain fact is that the Dail is better with those two in it than a couple party politicians nodding away with the Government.

    At least the couple of party eejits would form part of a group with actual policies ands strategies on issues rather than “down with this sort of thing” and “lets just tax the rich” and “sure we’ll just not pay our debts”

    Agreed they could be hopeless eejits but at least they’d be penned in by a political party with some inteligent policies and advisers


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    #83
    EazyD
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,207 ✭✭✭EazyD


    comongethappy wrote: »
    No... It'd not obvious.

    How does transiting troops or kit legally change a nations military alignment?

    You don't think facilitating military logistics (weaponry) in someway de-bases that status?


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    #84
    jimboblep
    Registered Users Posts: 546 ✭✭✭jimboblep


    My name is URL wrote: »
    haha.. great point

    People will undoubtedly call for Wallace and Daly to be locked up over this, pretending that they give a **** about the laws of the land, while at the same time excusing the fact that the law of the land is routinely ignored and unenforced when Shannon is used by foreign militaries.

    what exact law is being broken


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    #85
    bajer101
    Registered Users Posts: 2,178 ✭✭✭bajer101


    AlanG wrote: »
    This is interesting. Could you explain which Law is being ignored and why the ongoing transit flights via Shannon are illegal. I am not talking about the rendition flights that may likely happened in the past. I cant find any statute that makes it illegal for foreign troops to transit through Irish ports. It would be great if you could expand on this.

    Here's the problem, we just can't be sure if there are laws being broken, because we just rely on the American's soft assurances that no laws are being broken - the same assurances that they gave us when they clearly were breaking international law. Amnesty have reported that Shannon was used for renditions and we still have no way to know who or what is on those planes that land in our country.

    Another potential problem is that a lot of people view the occupation of Iraq as illegal or that there are certainly a lot of illegal acts carried out in Iraq (and Afghanistan) and that by allowing Shannon to be used a military hub we are tacitly giving our approval.
    comongethappy wrote: »
    Yes.... That's the question I'd like you to answer.

    A plane of soldiers watching movies & reading books stops in Shannon for fuel.... Ergo, Ireland is no longer neutral..... Its a stretch.

    I'm just seeking confirmation.... Perhaps from statute.... or any legal definition.

    Are you serious? Ok, well I'll put it to you another way. If Ireland had allowed military stopovers by Nazi Germany in WWII, do you think that would have affected our neutrality?


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    #86
    kneemos
    Registered Users Posts: 20,409 ✭✭✭✭kneemos


    EazyD wrote: »
    Thought it was pretty obvious to be honest. By allowing U.S military to utilise our airports as a drop-off hub for troops, military aircraft and above all weaponry.

    Military aircraft without weaponry?
    I doubt anybody's checking.


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    #87
    comongethappy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,753 ✭✭✭comongethappy


    EazyD wrote: »
    You don't think facilitating military logistics (weaponry) in someway de-bases that status?

    Not at all.

    And I'd love someone to show the codex of Intl law that says it does

    Whether US, Russian, Chinese, South Sudanese troops transit through Shannon, it doesn't change neutrality status one bit.

    And your welcome to prve that wrong factually & legally, no conjecture.


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    #88
    bajer101
    Registered Users Posts: 2,178 ✭✭✭bajer101


    jimboblep wrote: »
    what exact law is being broken

    Renditions, which are illegal under international law.


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    #89
    Coat22
    Registered Users Posts: 1,789 ✭✭✭Coat22


    Judgement Day wrote: »
    Mick Wallace was NOT convicted of tax fraud. He made a settlement with the revenue commissioners. Why not check your facts instead of perpetuating this rubbish. I presume from the rest of your post it's an FF Dictatorship you would favour - we've had that.

    Apologies – he was not convicted (as the fraud was through a company rather than by an individual) but he “admitted knowingly under declaring his VAT liability” – ie admitted to fraud. In fairness to him if you can get away with it (as you clearly can) then sure its worth a go.

    I’d actually have liked a PD dictatorship but they weren’t populist enough. FF (and dear old Bertie) were exactly that (populist) which is why we got years of them.


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    #90
    My name is URL
    Registered Users Posts: 25,060 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    jimboblep wrote: »
    what exact law is being broken

    I'm not a judge. I asked if Gardai inspect planes to make sure that laws are not being broken.

    Conditions apply to the use of Shannon airport. Who is ensuring that those conditions are met?


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    #91
    Larbre34
    Registered Users Posts: 23,797 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    In fairness Mick Wallace is consistent, peaceful resistance and obstruction of the war machine is always his top priority - so long as it doesnt clash with the World Cup, champions league or Wexford Youths games.

    Cretin.


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