Blood bikes

Scatter Cat · 03-10-2014 8:58am

Pataman wrote: »

What they didnt say was they(BBL) told us(when we met at the top of Grafton St) they were trying to pick up the Bumbulance convoy to lead it in, however the route was changed at the last minute.

According to their Facebook and the photos on there on 19th September they had a "team member" actually pushing the Bumbleance! And that the fact that the push was tracked live by gps on a public website for the public to follow progress, I frankly find your story blaming others quite unbelievable.

Pataman · 03-10-2014 9:13am

Why are you talking about this in the 3rd person, You were there at the top of Grafton St. You said hello to me.

Scatter Cat · 03-10-2014 9:25am

Pataman wrote: »

Why are you talking about this in the 3rd person, You were there at the top of Grafton St. You said hello to me.

????????? what are you on about? I think you've lost your marbles!

You come out with all these wild theory's and conjecture about others. Yet you expect people to believe you despite there being photos of ye for all to see.

Blood1 · 05-10-2014 8:38pm

Pataman wrote: »

The reason we dont have a siren is we dont need it. We dont use blues operationally. There is no need.

Looks like someone has been seen driving a Blood Bike on the N4 at Palmerstown today on blue lights even though they dont use blue lights, looks like the run started in the Midlands and was running to Dublin, i suppose someone else will get the blame for this, its all been said on esf htt p s://w w w.esforum.org/showthread.php?tid=6384&pid=162662#pid162662

limericklad87 · 05-10-2014 9:11pm

Recently I've seen a certain blood bike group being thanked for marshalling a charity cycle....and this wasn't in Dublin/Leinster

Blood1 · 05-10-2014 9:28pm

limericklad87 wrote: »

Recently I've seen a certain blood bike group being thanked for marshalling a charity cycle....and this wasn't in Dublin/Leinster

For which their is "No" insurance cover for any bike to do as if you look at any policy.

Scatter Cat · 05-10-2014 9:45pm

limericklad87 wrote: »

Recently I've seen a certain blood bike group being thanked for marshalling a charity cycle....and this wasn't in Dublin/Leinster

I seen that group advertising that they can provide that service with lights.

From their website!

Marshalling
We have been asked several times to provide motorbike marshals for Bicycle Races and large group ride outs.

We are delighted now to be able to offer this service to you.

Should you require motorbike marshals we would like you to consider us.

We will provide:
* High-Viz Blood Bike with flashing warning lights
* As many extra motorbikes as your group requires
* All riders will wear high-viz (Blood Bike) jackets
* Efficient, Professional service

We do not charge for this service, we do this to promote Blood Bikes and increase people's awareness of our organisation, we would of course welcome any donation towards our charity.

Groups we have already provided motorbike marshals for include:
* Croi Lough Corrib Cycle
* West Coast Wheelers
* Celtic Series - Tour De Connemara
* Galway Bay Cycling Club

.bloodbikewest.ie/marshalling.htm

flazio · 05-10-2014 11:00pm

I will point out that BBW did have Garda and Civil Defence help as well.

Broken Arrow · 05-10-2014 11:23pm

Pataman prob doesn't know that Mr Ambulance has a medic style bike also.

Why does he have these things???

limericklad87 · 06-10-2014 7:25am

Broken Arrow wrote: »

Pataman prob doesn't know that Mr Ambulance has a medic style bike also.

Why does he have these things???

I don't think he can be held accountable for what one of his volunteers does or has to an extent outside of hours
What he does need to do is to define to his members what is acceptable in how they behave while representing their organisation and if not possible he needs to be able to say thanks for your time but it's not working out.

This ambulance and now this bike should not be near any blood bikes in any official capacity.... Photos, exhibitions etc.

No Facebook photos or YouTube videos unless they have a set purpose and filtered first.

Scatter Cat · 06-10-2014 10:16am

limericklad87 wrote: »

I don't think he can be held accountable for what one of his volunteers does or has to an extent outside of hours
What he does need to do is to define to his members what is acceptable in how they behave while representing their organisation and if not possible he needs to be able to say thanks for your time but it's not working out.

This ambulance and now this bike should not be near any blood bikes in any official capacity.... Photos, exhibitions etc.

No Facebook photos or YouTube videos unless they have a set purpose and filtered first.

These 2 vehicles are are official events and were photographed there.
I would be concerned if my neighbour was not a paramedic and just bought himself an ambulance and bike. I find it very strange.

lighterman · 06-10-2014 10:40am

Scatter Cat wrote: »

These 2 vehicles are are official events and were photographed there.
I would be concerned if my neighbour was not a paramedic and just bought himself an ambulance and bike. I find it very strange.

Why would you be concerned. Why would it have anything to do with you

Scatter Cat · 06-10-2014 10:43am

lighterman wrote: »

Why would you be concerned. Why would it have anything to do with you

I think it's scary! Sure maybe he could get a fake Garda car also.

lighterman · 06-10-2014 10:51am

Scatter Cat wrote: »

I think it's scary! Sure maybe he could get a fake Garda car also.

But why. What harm can he do it with.

A garda car is different.

Scatter Cat · 06-10-2014 11:19am

lighterman wrote: »

But why. What harm can he do it with.

A garda car is different.

It's not normal!!

ratracer · 06-10-2014 11:23am

Scatter Cat wrote: »

I seen that group advertising that they can provide that service with lights.

From their website!

Marshalling
We have been asked several times to provide motorbike marshals for Bicycle Races and large group ride outs.

We are delighted now to be able to offer this service to you.

Should you require motorbike marshals we would like you to consider us.

We will provide:
* High-Viz Blood Bike with flashing warning lights
* As many extra motorbikes as your group requires
* All riders will wear high-viz (Blood Bike) jackets
* Efficient, Professional service

We do not charge for this service, we do this to promote Blood Bikes and increase people's awareness of our organisation, we would of course welcome any donation towards our charity.

Groups we have already provided motorbike marshals for include:
* Croi Lough Corrib Cycle
* West Coast Wheelers
* Celtic Series - Tour De Connemara
* Galway Bay Cycling Club

.bloodbikewest.ie/marshalling.htm

And what exactly is the problem with this?

lighterman · 06-10-2014 11:24am

Didn't say it was. Just don't see why you'd be concerned about it. There's alot worse going on you could be concerned with

Scatter Cat · 06-10-2014 11:38am

ratracer wrote: »

And what exactly is the problem with this?

Never said there was a problem, it was relevant to the discussion regarding marshalling.

limericklad87 · 06-10-2014 12:25pm

Scatter Cat wrote: »

These 2 vehicles are are official events and were photographed there.
I would be concerned if my neighbour was not a paramedic and just bought himself an ambulance and bike. I find it very strange.

My point being that he can only be responsible for what happens operationally. That said association with individuals who purchase their own vehicles is clearly not good for your image

Schindlers Pissed · 06-10-2014 1:22pm

lighterman wrote: »

Why would you be concerned. Why would it have anything to do with you

This is the problem I have with it. When is enough enough? When do these lunatics decide that the Waltism is gone far enough? I was at a seizure once where a guy who was on scene shoved a spoon into the victims mouth (to stop her swallowing her tongue, which can't happen!!)……this resulted in broken teeth. The person stated he was a doctor. I asked him to stay on scene because I wanted his name and medical number after I treated the casualty.

Needless to say when I turned around he was gone. There are enough idiots around without them claiming to be something they aren't…….it's a danger to the general public and it shouldn't be allowed. What percentage of the general public know the difference between the NAS, DFB or any of the private or voluntary ambulance services?? Answer: Very few.

It's hard enough do your job properly and safely while transporting and treating sick people without clowns like this making up fairytale vehicles with full markings and blue lights……..I wish the law would come down and take them off the road.

This isn't about Blood Bikes……..this is about these other vehicles being used. It's f*cking ridiculous.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KeuJ_6skbF4

Broken Arrow · 06-10-2014 1:23pm

What's next? Will he get a fire engine and stick a logo on it?

Dermot Illogical · 06-10-2014 1:41pm

Broken Arrow wrote: »

What's next? Will he get a fire engine and stick a logo on it?

Like this one maybe? http://www.absolutelimos.ie/portfolio/the-fire-engine-limo/

Seriously, why do you care what someone collects?

This thread has been a bit of an eye-opener. There are three or four new accounts with the same agenda all backing each other up trying to generate a bit of controversy for whatever reason. It's all a bit sad if you are grown adults.

I hadn't heard of blood bikes until I read this thread, but I think it's a good idea. As I already have an advanced qualification (one that teaches blue lights) I decided to volunteer.
Based on what I read here I decided that BBE was the saner option in my geographical area.

Schindlers Pissed · 06-10-2014 2:01pm

Well just to clarify my position Dermot in case you're wondering……..I have no problem with Blood Bikes using blues when carrying blood, but I STILL think it's absolutely stupid that they have blues and don't have any exemptions under the RTA…..what's the point?? (Yeah yeah yeah…..seen the previous posts about needing them while being escorted…..if that's the case then what's the point in having them at all?? Sure various other vehicles get escorted without blues).

Walts. While the vast majority of riders (or any other Vol for that matter) are there for the patient or the job in hand, there are a number who purely join for the whole battenburg/blue lights thing………if they are acting within the law then I have no problem, if they are outside the law they should be nailed. For example the bike that was seen yesterday on blues with no escort, what's that about? The group themselves say they don't use blues except for under escort, but if they had blood then fair enough……but why say one thing and do another? So what's the story there? (I didn't see it so can't confirm).

Marked up vehicles. Why in the name of jaysus would anybody want one of these unless they are a total and utter Walt?? I've spent years driving on blues with a statutory provider and it's clowns like these who confuse the general public into thinking they are an ES vehicle……..I don't care what anyone says, it's ridiculous.

The new accounts: I don't know if that's aimed at me, but I've been a member on boards for a while now, I don't comment if I have no interest. I'm not one to nitpick, but if I have a question I'll ask it……..and the posts on this, coupled with the thread on the ESF, alongside videos, pictures and Facebook posts just goes to prove that somebody (several somebodies) are telling porkies left right and centre.

I have respect for anyone involved in ANY Vol Org that gets out of bed to do a job for a stranger for no pay……….but in my eyes, if a person is a clown then he or she is a clown. If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck then it's a f*cking duck.

Broken Arrow · 06-10-2014 2:26pm

Dermot Illogical wrote: »

Seriously, why do you care what someone collects?

This thread has been a bit of an eye-opener. There are three or four new accounts with the same agenda all backing each other up trying to generate a bit of controversy for whatever reason. It's all a bit sad if you are grown adults.

I hadn't heard of blood bikes until I read this thread, but I think it's a good idea. As I already have an advanced qualification (one that teaches blue lights) I decided to volunteer.
Based on what I read here I decided that BBE was the saner option in my geographical area.

Maybe you'll be allowed to do escorts with blues and no gloves if you play your cards right. And if your really good maybe you'll be allowed to bring your own personal ambulance to events and put the Bloodbike east logo on it.

Seems to be what's happening at the moment.

Dermot Illogical · 06-10-2014 2:37pm

Schindlers Pissed wrote: »

I have respect for anyone involved in ANY Vol Org that gets out of bed to do a job for a stranger for no pay……….but in my eyes, if a person is a clown then he or she is a clown. If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck then it's a f*cking duck.

There's 3 or 4 of them following mammy around this thread.

Dermot Illogical · 06-10-2014 2:38pm

Broken Arrow wrote: »

Maybe you'll be allowed to do escorts with blues and no gloves if you play your cards right. And if your really good maybe you'll be allowed to bring your own personal ambulance to events and put the Bloodbike east logo on it.

Seems to be what's happening at the moment.

I'm capable of thinking for myself, thanks.

Schindlers Pissed · 06-10-2014 2:48pm

Please explain? Ta…….this thread is getting confusing as to what angle people are making…….

lighterman · 06-10-2014 3:08pm

Schindlers Pissed wrote: »

This is the problem I have with it. When is enough enough? When do these lunatics decide that the Waltism is gone far enough? I was at a seizure once where a guy who was on scene shoved a spoon into the victims mouth (to stop her swallowing her tongue, which can't happen!!)……this resulted in broken teeth. The person stated he was a doctor. I asked him to stay on scene because I wanted his name and medical number after I treated the casualty.

Needless to say when I turned around he was gone. There are enough idiots around without them claiming to be something they aren't…….it's a danger to the general public and it shouldn't be allowed. What percentage of the general public know the difference between the NAS, DFB or any of the private or voluntary ambulance services?? Answer: Very few.

It's hard enough do your job properly and safely while transporting and treating sick people without clowns like this making up fairytale vehicles with full markings and blue lights……..I wish the law would come down and take them off the road.

This isn't about Blood Bikes……..this is about these other vehicles being used. It's f*cking ridiculous.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KeuJ_6skbF4

The incident that you mention was one isolated incident.

This person could drive around a city all day long and not come across anything.

The only way i see there was a problem is if this person turned up to calls and started treatment but then you'd have to question how he knew of the call.

I'd also have to ask if you know what qualification this person has.

Schindlers Pissed · 06-10-2014 3:15pm

Have you ever heard of a scanner?

Qualification of who? The guy in the clip? I'm assuming he has no qualification seeing as he had no ID, no official pre-hospital ID, he has a provisional license so he can't be working with an ambulance service, has previous of impersonating police and paramedics.

If you're talking about the clown that shoved a spoon into my casualties mouth, well I presume he had no qualifications either because A) You can't swallow your tongue, it's myth, and

A spoon isn't how you protect a patients airway.

lighterman · 06-10-2014 3:53pm

Schindlers Pissed wrote: »

Have you ever heard of a scanner?

Qualification of who? The guy in the clip? I'm assuming he has no qualification seeing as he had no ID, no official pre-hospital ID, he has a provisional license so he can't be working with an ambulance service, has previous of impersonating police and paramedics.

If you're talking about the clown that shoved a spoon into my casualties mouth, well I presume he had no qualifications either because A) You can't swallow your tongue, it's myth, and A spoon isn't how you protect a patients airway.

Course I've heard of a scanner. Have you ever heard of tetra. Apart from DFB i believe all of the East coast ambulance wise are on tetra so unless he was spending his days driving around dublin a scanner would be no use to him.

I'm asking about the qualifications of the member of bbe that has the ambulance.

sjb25 · 06-10-2014 4:07pm

This thread really isn't doing any of the blood bike groups any good..... With the arguments

I've no problem with these bike using blues if it's legal and required
I do have a problem with people running around on blues for no reason if that's what happend and I have a major problem with somebody going around with a private vehicle marked as an ambulance with lights and siren etc
members of the public can't tell any difference and say there is an RTC and this guys comes across it what is he going to do does he have any qualification does he have equipment in it to treat patients
I no you can say people can have vintage cars RTC with blues but this jeep is fairly new no need for blues or markings at all

Scatter Cat · 06-10-2014 4:33pm

The biggest threat to bloodbikes is the behaviour that's being discussed here.

If you don't behave this way then it won't be discussed.

Schindlers Pissed · 06-10-2014 4:51pm

Of course I've heard of Tetra…….I have one. Maybe NAS have Tetra but I would imagine that if DFB are still analogue then that's 11 ambulances he could be chasing after……..I'm not saying he actually is.

What qualifications does the guy in the BBE "Ambulance" jeep have? The answer is, it doesn't matter.

To act in a pre-hospital capacity you must have a qualification, you must be on the PHECC register, you must be of "good standing" on the register, and here's the good bit……you must be acting on behalf of an approved provider of PHECC CPGs….so if he's not doing that then he's only allowed provide first aid, the same as any other member of the public.

The ambulance service must be an approved CPG provider by PHECC bought in by section 23 of the road traffic act 2014.

I'd be interested as to why he/she has the vehicle.

limericklad87 · 06-10-2014 7:03pm

lighterman wrote: »

Course I've heard of a scanner. Have you ever heard of tetra. Apart from DFB i believe all of the East coast ambulance wise are on tetra so unless he was spending his days driving around dublin a scanner would be no use to him.

I'm asking about the qualifications of the member of bbe that has the ambulance.

I remember not so long ago there was individual in limerick that always had his scanner and first aid kit in the evenings and weekends and was always first to a call.....

Scatter Cat · 07-10-2014 4:57pm

Are scanners not illegal also?

07-10-2014 5:40pm

Scatter Cat wrote: »

Are scanners not illegal also?

Nope.

Scatter Cat · 07-10-2014 5:41pm

I always thought that it was illegal to intercept a signal not ment for you.

Schindlers Pissed · 07-10-2014 5:42pm

No they're not. But it's illegal to listen to frequencies like Gardai etc. An example of an Irish company selling them…..

http://www.cqcomms.com/products_scanners.htm

limericklad87 · 07-10-2014 9:15pm

Schindlers Pissed wrote: »

No they're not. But it's illegal to listen to frequencies like Gardai etc. An example of an Irish company selling them…..

http://www.cqcomms.com/products_scanners.htm

Maplin sell them nationwide in their stores

Esel · 07-10-2014 9:18pm

Schindlers Pissed wrote: »

No they're not. But it's illegal to listen to frequencies like Gardai etc. An example of an Irish company selling them…..

http://www.cqcomms.com/products_scanners.htm

I thought AGS use Tetra?

limericklad87 · 07-10-2014 9:52pm

Esel wrote: »

I thought AGS use Tetra?

They do as does the majority of the NAS. I think the point here is that it's not as easy as it use to be for the ambosexuals to interfere directly but the fact remains that they are those that will purchase their own vehicles to fulfill their fantasy.

Back on topic, the blood bikes do provide a great service but must be careful like all voluntary emergency services not to fall victim to those using them to pretend they are something they are not. Strict guidelines and complaint investigation would help

apc · 09-10-2014 10:04am

Reading through this thread, 2 issues arise for me.

1. What sort of insurance cover do the Bloodbikes have? This dictates the way that they maybe driven. Are they covered for bluelight driving? If they are on blue lights and have an accident such they operate outside of the rules ao the rule and collide with you is their insurance null and void.

2. An issue with voluntary groups is accountability. i Know from my own experience that if their is an issue at times it can be very difficult to deal with as there is no statutory regulation, there is no recognised notification system and as its voluntary people can run to the hills when the sh*t hits the fan

Scatter Cat · 09-10-2014 11:21pm

apc wrote: »

Reading through this thread, 2 issues arise for me.

1. What sort of insurance cover do the Bloodbikes have? This dictates the way that they maybe driven. Are they covered for bluelight driving? If they are on blue lights and have an accident such they operate outside of the rules ao the rule and collide with you is their insurance null and void.

2. An issue with voluntary groups is accountability. i Know from my own experience that if their is an issue at times it can be very difficult to deal with as there is no statutory regulation, there is no recognised notification system and as its voluntary people can run to the hills when the sh*t hits the fan

They are accountable by law to follow the Road Traffic Act. And they as individuals are accountable for their actions and can be punished by law same as anyone.

apc · 10-10-2014 12:36am

Scatter Cat wrote: »

They are accountable by law to follow the Road Traffic Act. And they as individuals are accountable for their actions and can be punished by law same as anyone.

As is everyone but do they have exemptions under the RTA. If they have to obey the law that is the RTA then why are the bikes marked so conspicuously or are they trying to appear to be something they are not.

As you say the individual can be punished but what about the voluntary organisation if that needs to be taken to task, who is accountable?

My original query really relates to all voluntary non statutory groups whose vehicles are equipped with Blue and/or twos where a member of said group gets a bit caught up in the moment and say for instance goes through a red light or drives on the wrong side of the road, does the organisation have insurance or other to cover this event or is it down to the individual, if it goes to court.
In the statutory bodies the body normally provides cover as they are permitted under the RTA to use the exemptions while using blues and twos although the individual drives on their own licence and faces the full rigours of the law for what could amount to dangerous driving.

Its the insurance side of things regarding voluntary groups I am asking about

limericklad87 · 10-10-2014 9:15am

Not strictly on topic but I thought a few here might find this amusing

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/fake-speed-cop-caught-tricking-4401091

Broken Arrow · 11-10-2014 12:34am

So here's a question for Pataman:

Directly off Bloodbike east Facebook.

"Description
Blood Bike East are the ONLY group that deliver Blood, Blood Products, medical equipment, Breast Milk and any other medical items between hospitals, clinics and medical establishments in the Dublin and greater Leinster region.
We have agreements in place with most of the hospitals in Dublin and will be expanding shortly to the Leinster area"

How are you the ONLY group the area you have described when there is clearly another group operating in Leinster?

Why is it you constantly post about doing runs to and from Leinster/south leinster when it seams common knowledge that Bloodbike east only operate in Dublin?

It seems that Bloodbike east are constantly trying to antagonise the other group.

Scatter Cat · 11-10-2014 1:10am

I noticed that and that map they have covering all of Leinster? What's that all about? I think it's a gross misrepresentation of the situation and as it's on advertisement for donations I think that it's lying to the public!

Reference: blood bike east website and Facebook.

Esel · 11-10-2014 2:13am

Disclaimer: No (really dumb) animals have been harmed during the production of this thread.

apc · 17-10-2014 11:02am

apc wrote: »

As is everyone but do they have exemptions under the RTA. If they have to obey the law that is the RTA then why are the bikes marked so conspicuously or are they trying to appear to be something they are not.

As you say the individual can be punished but what about the voluntary organisation if that needs to be taken to task, who is accountable?

My original query really relates to all voluntary non statutory groups whose vehicles are equipped with Blue and/or twos where a member of said group gets a bit caught up in the moment and say for instance goes through a red light or drives on the wrong side of the road, does the organisation have insurance or other to cover this event or is it down to the individual, if it goes to court.
In the statutory bodies the body normally provides cover as they are permitted under the RTA to use the exemptions while using blues and twos although the individual drives on their own licence and faces the full rigours of the law for what could amount to dangerous driving.

Its the insurance side of things regarding voluntary groups I am asking about

Anyone able to throw any light on my query

ectoraige · 17-10-2014 12:25pm

apc wrote: »

As is everyone but do they have exemptions under the RTA. If they have to obey the law that is the RTA then why are the bikes marked so conspicuously or are they trying to appear to be something they are not.

As you say the individual can be punished but what about the voluntary organisation if that needs to be taken to task, who is accountable?

My original query really relates to all voluntary non statutory groups whose vehicles are equipped with Blue and/or twos where a member of said group gets a bit caught up in the moment and say for instance goes through a red light or drives on the wrong side of the road, does the organisation have insurance or other to cover this event or is it down to the individual, if it goes to court.
In the statutory bodies the body normally provides cover as they are permitted under the RTA to use the exemptions while using blues and twos although the individual drives on their own licence and faces the full rigours of the law for what could amount to dangerous driving.

Its the insurance side of things regarding voluntary groups I am asking about

My understanding is as follows, please do not quote in a court of law

The vol organisations have their own insurance cover so if there was an incident this is what would be claimed under.

However, it is the individual driver that bears the responsibility to drive in accordance to the law. Section 87 of the Road Traffic Act provides exemptions to most of the act for Gardaí, and members of ambulance and fire services. It does not provide exemptions to the provisions regarding dangerous driving or driving under the influence.

So a member of a voluntary ambulance service while performing his duties would have those exemptions. If he caused an accident due to driving recklessly then he may be prosecuted, but it would be the orgs insurer who would pay out.

The pertinent question then is whether Blood Bikes counts as an ambulance service? I believe not as there are treated separately in the provisions regarding blue lights where there are distinct clauses for ambulance and organ transports.

So, in answer to your question, the vol ambulance services operate under the same framework as the statutory ones, it's the members licence, but the organisation's insurance.

One final practical consideration is that under the EMS response protocols, all situations that calls for a blue-light response (Bravo to Echo) also call for a paramedic, something which would not be normal for most vols to have onboard. Exceptions are made to this so if you see a vol ambo under blue lights, they have a paramedic on-board, or the HSE have asked them to transport immediately instead of waiting for one. Or they are acting the maggot :pac:

Blood bikes

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