Transfer of UK license to Irish

Alun · 29-09-2008 11:41am

craichoe wrote: »

That is impossible, for the very simple reason that in the Netherlands the RDW advise that you can keep your original and get a dutch one along side it. This applies if you are on the 30% ruling.

Its stated here in English:
http://www.eurogates.nl/en_holland_news/id/1155/

So please explain how it is illegal or indeed any source which states this is the case.

I've never come across anything like this before. What has the 30% ruling (which from what i remember is a tax thing) got to do with exchanging driving licences? And what is the authority of that website? Care to give me a pointer to the RDW website where this is explained? (I speak fluent Dutch).

EDIT: Found a reference on the RDW website in Dutch that says it allows the exchange of a driving licence from someone from a non-EU state in case the applicant falls under the 30% rule .. still can't see why that's an issue personally, but there you go. No mention of being able to keep the old one that I can see. I've never personally held much regard for many of these 'expat' website offering advice by the way. The advice they give is often wrong or misleading.

In any case, what on earth would be the point anyway when you can continue using your old licence until it expires. I don't see the point.

Also there have been pointers to the relevant EU directive banning the holding of more than one EU driving licence in the past, when this has come up. I'll try and drag it up (yet again!!).

craichoe · 29-09-2008 11:55am

Alun wrote: »

I've never coma across anything like this before. What has the 30% ruling (which from what i remember is a tax thing) got to do with exchanging driving licences? And what is the authority of that website? Care to give me a pointer to the RDW website where this is explained? (I speak fluent Dutch).

In any case, what on earth would be the point anyway when you can continue using your old licence until it expires. I don't see the point.

Also there have been pointers to the relevant EU directive banning the possession of more than one EU driving licence in the past, when this has come up. I'll try and drag it up (yet again!!).

The RDW site is worse than the Belastingdienst .. it doesn't mention it on the site and was about as difficult to find out about as the BPM exemption on importing your own car.

Basically the 30% ruling gives you certain benefits (beyond the tax one) being a foreign knowledge worker, you could give the RDW a call on +31 598 39 33 30. If you don't believe me, but its quite a common thing, you get your license back in the post with your dutch one in 2 - 8 weeks

craichoe · 29-09-2008 11:57am

Alun wrote: »

I've never come across anything like this before. What has the 30% ruling (which from what i remember is a tax thing) got to do with exchanging driving licences? And what is the authority of that website? Care to give me a pointer to the RDW website where this is explained? (I speak fluent Dutch).

EDIT: Found a reference on the RDW website in Dutch that says it allows the exchange of a driving licence from someone from a non-EU state in case the applicant falls under the 30% rule .. still can't see why that's an issue personally, but there you go. No mention of being able to keep the old one that I can see. I've never personally held much regard for many of these 'expat' website offering advice by the way. The advice they give is often wrong or misleading.

In any case, what on earth would be the point anyway when you can continue using your old licence until it expires. I don't see the point.

Also there have been pointers to the relevant EU directive banning the holding of more than one EU driving licence in the past, when this has come up. I'll try and drag it up (yet again!!).

I think its more to do with People requiring a driving license for work, being here on short term contracts and insurance companies not taking their foreign license for that purpose.

EDIT: I'm not trying to prove you wrong, just merely saying that you can, I indeed have an Irish driving license for Car and want to get one for bike. I rang up and asked if i can get a license for a Bike, go for lessons etc and they said no problem, I can also get the category transferred if i want and keep my original license.

While something may be deemed illegal by the EU, states still issue licenses when you pass a test just like they issue passports if you have dual citizenship

Alun · 29-09-2008 12:09pm

craichoe wrote: »

The RDW site is worse than the Belastingdienst .. it doesn't mention it on the site and was about as difficult to find out about as the BPM exemption on importing your own car.

Basically the 30% ruling gives you certain benefits (beyond the tax one) being a foreign knowledge worker, you could give the RDW a call on +31 598 39 33 30. If you don't believe me, but its quite a common thing, you get your license back in the post with your dutch one in 2 - 8 weeks

This was the document I found ... http://www.rdw.nl/NR/rdonlyres/F17DE460-77A7-47CA-A642-2874CF7EC24B/0/3B0992bHandleiding397.pdf

Still sounds very dodgy to me I have to say, and I still can't see why falling under the '30% regeling' (which in itself is possibly one of the most abused bits of tax regulation in the Netherlands, but that's another matter!) can have anything to do with it, when EU law overriides it. Are you sure your old Irish licence is still considered valid, i.e. the Dutch authorities haven't informed the Irish ones that it's been exchanged?

Regarding the relevant EU legislation, see the bottom of this FAQ ...

http://ec.europa.eu/transport/home/drivinglicence/faq/004_en.htm

Is it possible to have two driving licences issued by different Member States? No, in its Article 7(5) Directive 91/439/EEC stipulates that no person may hold a driving licence from more than one Member State. This includes withdrawn licences.

Alun · 29-09-2008 12:11pm

craichoe wrote: »

I think its more to do with People requiring a driving license for work, being here on short term contracts and insurance companies not taking their foreign license for that purpose.

I suppose that might conceivably be an issue, but I never had a problem getting insurance on a German licence in the Netherlands, or a Dutch licence here in Ireland.

craichoe · 29-09-2008 12:20pm

Alun wrote: »

This was the document I found ... http://www.rdw.nl/NR/rdonlyres/F17DE460-77A7-47CA-A642-2874CF7EC24B/0/3B0992bHandleiding397.pdf

Still sounds very dodgy to me I have to say, and I still can't see why falling under the '30% regeling' (which in itself is possibly one of the most abused bits of tax regulation in the Netherlands, but that's another matter!) can have anything to do with it, when EU law overriides it. Are you sure your old Irish licence is still considered valid, i.e. the Dutch authorities haven't informed the Irish ones that it's been exchanged?

Indeed it is great for foreigners though

Although employees of European offices don't pay any tax at all, which you could say is a damn site better

Regarding the relevant EU legislation, see the bottom of this FAQ ...

Theres lots of stuff that the EU says is illegal but is still enforced in many EU states. I.E. It was Dutch law that you had to exchange your license after 1 year, but this is no longer the case as someone challenged it.

I suppose that might conceivably be an issue, but I never had a problem getting insurance on a German licence in the Netherlands, or a Dutch licence here in Ireland.

Trying being Irish, a seconded employee, in Germany with his 'Hauptwohnung' in the Netherlands with an Irish license, getting stopped by the cops is interesting to say the least.

macplaxton · 29-09-2008 7:17pm

Right, I've read some proper replies, read some nonsense.

1) UK licence is recognised here as are all EU licences recognised under EU mutual recognition. Whilst a licence is valid, it doesn't have to be exchange.
2) UK licence doesn't need a correct and up-to-date UK address if the holder is no longer resident, but should a replacement be required and you don't have one, you'll need to apply for an exchange.
3) Full category entitlement will be valid until the expiry date on the licence. For category B the expiry date will be the day before the holder's 70th birthday. It is lower for many of the vocational categories.
4) A paper licence is valid until expiry, (normally at 70 years-old)
5) A photocard licence is valid until expiry, (needs renewing every 10 years - if it has expired, it's not valid)

For example, whilst my ordinary entitlements are valid until 2044, my vocational ones require renewing / medical from 2019 and my photocard licence expires in 2012.

The first photocards issued by the DVLA are due for renewal shortly. If they have expired they are no longer valid.

In reply to the OP's question. There is no legal obligation to exchange it providing that it is still valid.

spav · 30-09-2008 10:19am

Just to clarify - I have a full UK licence and a valid UK address (my parents') but I'm a full time resident in RoI, and will be for the foreseeable future.

Am I right in thinking that I only need to exchange my UK licence for an Irish one when my photocard is due for renewal (2011 iirc)? Also, is there any advantage in having an Irish licence over a UK one (e.g. cheaper insurance)?

macplaxton · 30-09-2008 10:28am

spav wrote: »

Just to clarify - I have a full UK licence and a valid UK address (my parents') but I'm a full time resident in RoI, and will be for the foreseeable future.

Am I right in thinking that I only need to exchange my UK licence for an Irish one when my photocard is due for renewal (2011 iirc)? Also, is there any advantage in having an Irish licence over a UK one (e.g. cheaper insurance)?

Technically yes, you should exchange it when the photocard expires in 2011. No real advantage. I would hang on to what you've got.

spav · 30-09-2008 10:53am

macplaxton wrote: »

Technically yes, you should exchange it when the photocard expires in 2011. No real advantage. I would hang on to what you've got.

Great, thanks.

R.O.R · 30-09-2008 11:16am

spav wrote: »

Also, is there any advantage in having an Irish licence over a UK one (e.g. cheaper insurance)?

Some insurance companies are giving a discount for no points on your licence and this only applies to Irish Licences.

aardsoft · 02-10-2008 11:22am

I followed this thread and almost made the mistake of going into Court with the information posted here.

Driving licenses are handling not by the Department of Transport but by the Road Safety Authority. The relevant wording is on their web-site http://www.rsa.ie/SERVICES/RSA_Services/Driver_Licensing.html#Exchange_Driving_Licence

This page contains information relating to Driver Licensing

Full Driving Licence
Learner Permit
FAQs
Forms
Statutory Instruments
Penalty Points
Contact Details

Full Driving License Information and Requirements

Who may apply?
Fee
Theory Test Certificate
Normal Residence in Ireland
Evidence of Identity
Photographs
Medical Report (Form D.501)
Current / Last Licence to Accompany Application
Lost / Stolen Licence
Duplicate Licence Application (Form D.800)
Free-in-lieu Licence
Exchange of Driving Licence
Towing a Trailer
Where to apply
Checklist
Diseases or disabilities where a medical report is required
Medical Aspects
Driving Licence Codes
Categories of Vehicles/Minimum Age of Driver
Motor Taxation Offices
Who may apply ?
You may apply for a driving licence if:-

You hold a driving licence which will expire within three months and you wish to renew it, or
You held a driving licence which expired less than 10 years ago and you wish to renew it, or
You hold a driving licence and you wish to have an additional category of vehicle added to it and a driving test is not required, or
You have recently passed a driving test, or
You are exchanging a current valid driving licence issued by another Member State of the European Union or of the European Economic Area or another 'recognised state'.

Period of Licence
If you are under 60 years of age you may apply for a 10 year or 3 year licence.
If you are over 60 but under 67 years of age you may apply for a licence which will expire when you reach 70 years of age or for a 3 year licence.
If you are over 67 but under 70 years of age you may apply for a three year licence.
If you are over 70 years of age you may apply for a 3 year or 1 year licence subject to certification of fitness to drive by your doctor.

The deciding age is your age on the first day of the period for which the licence is being granted.
A one year licence may be granted in exceptional circumstances where, for medical reasons, a longer term of licence cannot be granted.

Fee
The fee for a driving licence is:-
1 year licence - €5
3 year licence - €15
10 year licence - €25
Licence up to age 70 (not more than 10 year) - €25
No fee will apply where the applicant is 70 years of age or more on the commencement date of the licence.
Cheques and Postal Orders should be made payable to the City or County Council to which you are making the application e.g. if applying to Dublin Motor Tax Office the cheque should be made payable to Dublin City Council.

Theory Test Certificate
If you applied for a first provisional licence in the period 25 April 2001 to 10 June 2001, you must submit a theory test certificate with your driving licence application, unless you have already submitted such a certificate. Further information may be obtained on the Driver Theory Test website at www.theorytest.ie

Normal Residence in Ireland
An applicant for a driving licence must be normally resident in Ireland. In this connection, you shall be regarded as having your normal residence in Ireland if, because of personal and occupational ties, you usually live here for at least 185 days in each calendar year. However, if you have personal ties in Ireland and occupational ties in another country which require absences from this country you may still be regarded as being normally resident in Ireland provided that you return here regularly. Working abroad on a specific task for a definite duration or attending a foreign University or College, shall not imply that you have transferred your normal residence to another country.

Evidence of Identity
If applying in person, the licensing authority may, in it's absolute discretion, request you to provide evidence of identity. Examples of the types of documentation that will be accepted in this regard include a passport, a birth certificate, a marriage certificate, a certificate of registration, a cheque book, a cheque card, a credit card, a Credit Union membership card, a bank, building society or savings bank book, a Social Welfare payment book, a signing-on card or free travel card, a medical card, an employee or student identity card.

Photographs
Two identical passport-type photographs must accompany your application. Please sign the reverse side of each photograph.

Medical Report (Form D.501) (must be printed back to back on one page)
Your application must be accompanied by a medical report if:-

You are applying for a driving licence in respect of any of the categories C1, C, D1, D, EC1, EC, ED1 or ED unless you have previously provided a medical report which is still applicable.
You will be 70 years of age or more on the first day of the period for which the licence is being granted.
You suffer from any of the disabilities or diseases listed under.
You have ever suffered from alcoholism or epilepsy.
You are taking, on a regular basis, drugs or medicaments which would be likely to cause the driving of a vehicle by you to be a source of danger.
The medical report must be completed by a registered medical practitioner and you must sign the declaration in his/her presence.

Note: (1) A person who suffers from serious arrhythmia which has at any stage resulted in loss of consciousness is particularly advised to consult his/her doctor before applying for a licence.
(2) A person who is dependent on or regularly abuses psychotropic substances is disqualified from holding any learner permit or driving licence.
If you have any doubts about your physical or mental fitness to drive you should consult a doctor.
Medical Report Forms may be obtained from your local Motor Taxation Office or downloaded here.

Current / Last Licence to Accompany Application
Your application for the issue or renewal of a driving licence must be accompanied by:

Your current or most recently issued driving licence, if you hold a driving licence or held
one within the previous ten years, and
Your current or most recently issued learner permit, if you hold a learner permit or
held one within the previous five years (unless your most recent learner permit has
been superseded by the issue of a driving licence).

Lost/Stolen License
If your most recent licence has been lost or stolen, you must complete a lost licence declaration form (Form D8 A) at your local Garda Station. This form must then be forwarded to the Motor Taxation Office with your application (Form D.401).

Duplicate Licence Application (Form D.800)
If your licence is current but has been lost or stolen you may apply to your Motor Taxation Office for a duplicate. A duplicate licence is issued to replace a valid licence that has been lost, stolen, destroyed or defaced. The duplicate will be a copy of the original licence, including any endorsements, and will be valid for the same period. Your application should include

Application Form D.800 signed and stamped at your local Garda Station
2 passport-type photographs (signed on back).

Fee - €10.00
Free-in-lieu Licence.
Free-in-lieu licences are issued (provided your driving licence is current) in the following cases:-
(1) Change of name/address.
(2) Removal of endorsement. (N.B. An endorsement must remain on a current licence for 3
years.)
(3) If an error has been made in the issue of the licence (e.g incorrect date of birth).
(4) Extra category added.
In all cases you must send a completed application form, 2 passport type photographs (signed on back) and any supporting documentation e.g. marriage certificate, to your local Motor Taxation Office.
With regard to No. 4 above - you must also enclose the required certificate of competency and medical report (if required).

Exchange of Driving Licence
Mutual Recognition
The holder of a driving licence issued by the competent authority of another member state of the European Union or of the European Economic Area (i.e. EU + Norway, Liechenstein and Iceland) may drive in Ireland on that licence for the duration of its validity. However, if you wish, you may apply for exchange to an equivalent Irish licence. Application for exchange must be made within ten years of expiry of the licence.
Recognised States
Australia, Gibraltar, Isle of Man, Japan, Jersey, South Africa, South Korea, Switzerland and Guernsey have been designated as recognised states for the purposes of Driving Licence Exchange along with those of the European Union and the European Economic Area. Upon taking up normal residence in the state the holder of a driving licence issued by the competent authority of one of these countries may drive here on that licence until the expiry of
(i) the period for which such licence has effect or
(ii) one year from the date of taking up such residence,
whichever first occurs.

Application for exchange to an equivalent Irish licence must be made within one year of expiry of the licence.

All applicants for exchange must complete an Exchange of Driving Licence form (D.900) and an Application for Driving Licence form (D.401).

THE IMPORTANT PART IS (ii)

Hope this helps someone else to not fall into the trap.

regards
aardsoft

aardsoft · 02-10-2008 11:24am

it should be http://www.rsa.ie/SERVICES/RSA_Services/Driver_Licensing.html#Exchange_Driving_Licence

regards

aardsoft

Alun · 02-10-2008 11:30am

aardsoft wrote: »

I followed this thread and almost made the mistake of going into Court with the information posted here.

<SNIP>

Hope this helps someone else to not fall into the trap.

What "trap" would that be then? We were talking about EU licences, and from what I can see the bit you emphasised is only relevant to the other states that exchanges are allowed for, not EU ones.

smashey · 02-10-2008 11:31am

Hi guys, sorry for butting in here but as I see a lot of info regarding the transfer of penalty points, I have a query.

I live in the Tyrone and still use my Irish license (DVLANI told me they had to accept it until it expires) even though I drive a Northern Car and am insured through a broker in Derry.

I have 4 penalty points for speeding (no problems, I was speeding and paid the fines) so would this present a problem if I was to teansfer to a UK license? The only reason I want to do this is that I work in Donegal and the customs have stopped me a couple of times.

Our man in Havana · 02-10-2008 11:36am

Nope, your Irish points would not be an issue, as far as DVLA NI are concerned you don't have any points.

smashey · 02-10-2008 11:37am

Thanks Bond.

I'll get the form at the weekend.

aardsoft · 02-10-2008 12:06pm

Th trap I am talking about is that previous threads suggested you do not need to exchange your UK/EU license for an Irish one. In fact if you read the RSA text you must exchange if you are resident for over 1 year.

My license is issue by the UK DVLA and it is an EU one with the blue flag, but the wording covers that.

Alun · 02-10-2008 12:14pm

aardsoft wrote: »

Th trap I am talking about is that previous threads suggested you do not need to exchange your UK/EU license for an Irish one. In fact if you read the RSA text you must exchange if you are resident for over 1 year.

No you don't. There has been mutual recognition of EU driving licences within the EU for a number of years now.

Our man in Havana · 02-10-2008 12:15pm

Th trap I am talking about is that previous threads suggested you do not need to exchange your UK/EU license for an Irish one. In fact if you read the RSA text you must exchange if you are resident for over 1 year

You don't. UK/EU licences are valid until they expire.

smashey · 02-10-2008 12:15pm

aardsoft wrote: »

In fact if you read the RSA text you must exchange if you are resident for over 1 year.

Not according to DVLANI in Coleraine. See my previous post.

spav · 02-10-2008 12:17pm

aardsoft wrote: »

Th trap I am talking about is that previous threads suggested you do not need to exchange your UK/EU license for an Irish one. In fact if you read the RSA text you must exchange if you are resident for over 1 year.

My license is issue by the UK DVLA and it is an EU one with the blue flag, but the wording covers that.

Unless I'm grossly missing the point here, that's exactly what it doesn't say;

"The holder of a driving licence issued by the competent authority of another member state of the European Union or of the European Economic Area (i.e. EU + Norway, Liechenstein and Iceland) may drive in Ireland on that licence for the duration of its validity. However, if you wish, you may apply for exchange to an equivalent Irish licence. Application for exchange must be made within ten years of expiry of the licence."

So you while you can exchange your EU licence if you want, you don't have to providing it's still valid (i.e. not expired).

Alun · 02-10-2008 12:24pm

spav wrote: »

Unless I'm grossly missing the point here, that's exactly what it doesn't say;

"The holder of a driving licence issued by the competent authority of another member state of the European Union or of the European Economic Area (i.e. EU + Norway, Liechenstein and Iceland) may drive in Ireland on that licence for the duration of its validity. However, if you wish, you may apply for exchange to an equivalent Irish licence. Application for exchange must be made within ten years of expiry of the licence."

So you while you can exchange your EU licence if you want, you don't have to providing it's still valid (i.e. not expired).

Exactly. the "point (ii)" he was referring to is only relevant to the exchange of licences from the countries other than the EEA that are listed under "recognised states".

Transfer of UK license to Irish

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