Strike On ! Proposed New Junior Cert See Mod Warning Post #1

MrJones1973 · 13-11-2014 11:12pm

Im not sure of your motives Enda and I think might time is wasted explaining how education system operates. You are not a teacher . This forum is designed for teachers not as a dummies guide to Education. Thats not saying you are a dummy but Im sure you get my drift.

In the school where I teach the most stress is caused by s and s. Some kids are just out of control. But I really think these discussions with Enda are a waste. Become a teacher Enda or do simple Googgle searches for the info you require.

Enda is a troll. If it quacks like a troll etc

evolving_doors · 13-11-2014 11:13pm

eyescreamcone wrote: »

I'm not a teacher
In my humble opinion it doesn't matter who corrects 3rd year exams. As a taxpayer I'd go with the cheaper option.

Oh goody, a fellow taxpayer like myself, lets explore this....

Sooo what's your cheaper option, outsource them to China?

eyescreamcone wrote: »

If teachers strike - let them.

Thanks for the approval.

eyescreamcone wrote: »

Every day on strike puts more money in the state coffers.

Hear hear!

You don't have kids in education by any chance?

evolving_doors · 13-11-2014 11:43pm

Mrwhite1970 wrote: »

Im not sure of your motives Enda and I think might time is wasted explaining how education system operates. You are not a teacher . This forum is designed for teachers not as a dummies guide to Education. Thats not saying you are a dummy but Im sure you get my drift.

In the school where I teach the most stress is caused by s and s. Some kids are just out of control. But I really think these discussions with Enda are a waste. Become a teacher Enda or do simple Googgle searches for the info you require.

Enda is a troll. If it quacks like a troll etc

GENERAL FORUM-WIDE MOD WARNING :

JUST REPORT ANY ALLEGED TROLLING.

THE BEST THING YOU CAN DO IF ANOTHER MEMBER ANNOYS YOU IS TO CLICK ON THEIR NAME AND HIT THE 'IGNORE' OPTION.

MrWHITE1970 Has been warned

Do not refer to this warning on-thread.

implausible · 14-11-2014 12:25am

acequion wrote: »

Why do you think the new JC is so inevitable? Look at it this way. The new JCSA,as they call it,is supposed to be up and running already in English for the present first years.Yet in most schools,English classes are no different to last year,same course,same book.

I have to jump in here as this is purely anecdotal and is the opposite of my experience. I can retort with anecdotal evidence of schools going with the only book that had been published in May because they wanted a booklist ready for parents and of every school that I am aware of in my area having a new textbook. All of the book companies, bar one, have one out.

If/when the JCSA comes in, teachers do not want to spring new methods on their students or themselves for that matter, so for the English teachers I've been speaking to, oral work has become very important.

As for my own opinion, well I do think it's inevitable. The JC needed to change, a system entirely based on terminal exams is unsuitable and unfair for many teenagers. My reservations are around the process of external moderation and the DES's ability to guarantee SEC marking of exams into the future.

evolving_doors · 14-11-2014 12:39am

implausible wrote: »

I have to jump in here as this is purely anecdotal and is the opposite of my experience. I can retort with anecdotal evidence of schools going with the only book that had been published in May because they wanted a booklist ready for parents and of every school that I am aware of in my area having a new textbook. All of the book companies, bar one, have one out.

If/when the JCSA comes in, teachers do not want to spring new methods on their students or themselves for that matter, so for the English teachers I've been speaking to, oral work has become very important.

As for my own opinion, well I do think it's inevitable. The JC needed to change, a system entirely based on terminal exams is unsuitable and unfair for many teenagers. My reservations are around the process of external moderation and the DES's ability to guarantee SEC marking of exams into the future.

In our school a book was 'shot down' because the structure went against the spirit of the directive. I havn't seen the book but I think that there was parts of it referring to monitoring students progress by assessment or planning outcomes for each student (not too sure)... either way it was 'back to the old course' and if they want to bring in a new system the teachers will await further training/directive from union first!

Also i've heard of publishing reps saying to teachers that 'everyone else in the area is using the new books so ye should think about getting on board' when the truth of the matter was that no school in the area had bought the books!

Also in terms of the 'integrity' of the proposed JC exam...
Is there a system of appeals in place?
Where will the scripts be stored?
Will special accommodations (spelling/grammer/ICT/reader/scribe etc) be given to every student that wants them without any reference to a cut off point? That could create massive problems for students looking for the same accommodations in the LCert. and being told 'no' a month before the exams commence!
Who checks the grades awarded..
Do teachers set whatever test they want to whatever marking scheme they want...

and again.. is it all supposed to be done at home when we've 'finished work'?

I'd really prefer to know first before accepting it.

rainbowtrout · 14-11-2014 12:57am

Armelodie wrote: »

In our school a book was 'shot down' because the structure went against the spirit of the directive. I havn't seen the book but I think that there was parts of it referring to monitoring students progress by assessment or planning outcomes for each student (not too sure)... either way it was 'back to the old course' and if they want to bring in a new system the teachers will await further training/directive from union first!

Also i've heard of publishing reps saying to teachers that 'everyone else in the area is using the new books so ye should think about getting on board' when the truth of the matter was that no school in the area had bought the books!

Also in terms of the 'integrity' of the proposed JC exam...
Is there a system of appeals in place?
Where will the scripts be stored?
Will special accommodations (spelling/grammer/ICT/reader/scribe etc) be given to every student that wants them without any reference to a cut off point? That could create massive problems for students looking for the same accommodations in the LCert. and being told 'no' a month before the exams commence!
Who checks the grades awarded..
Do teachers set whatever test they want to whatever marking scheme they want...

and again.. is it all supposed to be done at home when we've 'finished work'?

I'd really prefer to know first before accepting it.

All of that plus DEADLINES. It's hard enough getting project work out of students at the best of times, but at least when the SEC deadline is hanging over them the work usually gets done in some shape or form, although from experience I know that often involves teachers giving up free time to pull them through it. Will students take it as seriously if it's marked in house?

Cantremember · 14-11-2014 1:08am

eyescreamcone wrote: »

If teachers strike - let them. Every day on strike puts more money in the state coffers.

If they do it'll be a one day thing. Not enough to piss parents off in a big way but something to make it look as if they're serious. If the govt get past the water issue then they might decide to face the teachers. A teacher strike of more than one day will turn the tide quickly and the govt will b able to give the teachers a kicking.

implausible · 14-11-2014 9:20am

Armelodie wrote: »

Also i've heard of publishing reps saying to teachers that 'everyone else in the area is using the new books so ye should think about getting on board' when the truth of the matter was that no school in the area had bought the books!

Now, I'm hardly stupid enough to be basing that observation on what the book reps say!

At Union meetings, INOTE conference and meeting with teachers in other schools in the county, I've found that the vast majority are using a new textbook, some like myself applied the new learning outcomes to the old book before deciding on a new text. ALL of the books refer to assessment and learning outcomes and I'm thankful for some of it as it's more useful that anything we were given at the laughably terrible inservice.

eyescreamcone · 14-11-2014 12:40pm

The general public are not interested in teacher's woes. Teaching is looked upon as a well paid soft job. Whether this is actually true is irrelevant.
Very little public sympathy will be forthcoming for teachers as people will see the cost cutting changes to the junior cert as a positive thing.

At the end of the day the junior cert is only a fancy 3rd year summer exam anyway and should be treated as such.

Dave0301 · 14-11-2014 1:39pm

eyescreamcone wrote: »

The general public are not interested in teacher's woes. Teaching is looked upon as a well paid soft job. Whether this is actually true is irrelevant.
Very little public sympathy will be forthcoming for teachers as people will see the cost cutting changes to the junior cert as a positive thing.

At the end of the day the junior cert is only a fancy 3rd year summer exam anyway and should be treated as such.

So pupils should only sit one set of formal external exams throughout their 2nd Level education?

The high stake, one shot leaving cert? Right.

This is the problem with the public making uninformed opinions.

eyescreamcone · 14-11-2014 2:13pm

Dave0301 wrote: »

So pupils should only sit one set of formal external exams throughout their 2nd Level education?

The high stake, one shot leaving cert? Right.

This is the problem with the public making uninformed opinions.

The junior cert is only regarded as a stepping stone to the leaving cert. No employer would regard the present junior cert highly.

km79 · 14-11-2014 2:16pm

strike day Tuesday 2nd December with another in January

endakenny · 14-11-2014 2:21pm

Dave0301 wrote: »

So pupils should only sit one set of formal external exams throughout their 2nd Level education?

The high stake, one shot leaving cert? Right.

This is the problem with the public making uninformed opinions.

The fact that over 90% of pupils go on to do the Leaving Cert means that external exams are not as necessary at the end of the Junior Cycle as they used to be. Furthermore, the new system will encourage even more pupils to stay for the Leaving Cert.

With regards to the very small number of pupils who leave school after doing the Junior Cert, the issue of whether or not they have external exams at the end of Junior Cycle will make no difference to their prospects of getting jobs in bricklaying and other non-academic jobs.

The fact that there is still a terminal exam in JCSA English (that'll probably also be the case in Irish, Maths and other subjects) means that pupils will still be prepared for the Leaving Cert and the gradual implementation of the JCSA means that there is enough time to introduce reforms to the Leaving Cert. That is an issue that Ruairí Quinn said that the Department is working on when he was interviewed on This Week earlier this year.

chases0102 · 14-11-2014 2:29pm

Folks,

What are the options for non-unionised teachers here? Cross the picket and undermine your colleagues?

km79 · 14-11-2014 2:32pm

chases0102 wrote: »

Folks,

What are the options for non-unionised teachers here? Cross the picket and undermine your colleagues?

yes or join the union

endakenny · 14-11-2014 2:52pm

chases0102 wrote: »

Folks,

What are the options for non-unionised teachers here? Cross the picket and undermine your colleagues?

Schools are closed when strikes take place. Therefore, it wouldn't be possible for non-unionised teachers to work on a day on which a strike takes place.

spurious · 14-11-2014 2:56pm

endakenny wrote: »

Schools are closed when strikes take place. Therefore, it wouldn't be possible for non-unionised teachers to work on a day on which a strike takes place.

They won't be closed unless maintenance/admin staff go out too.

km79 · 14-11-2014 2:57pm

endakenny wrote: »

Schools are closed when strikes take place. Therefore, it wouldn't be possible for non-unionised teachers to work on a day on which a strike takes place.

this is not true

endakenny · 14-11-2014 3:01pm

km79 wrote: »

this is not true

Given that most teachers are union members, it would be impracticable for non-unionised teachers to enter the school on a strike day. Furthermore, even if it was possible, it would be unfair on pupils whose teachers are union members.

endakenny · 14-11-2014 3:02pm

spurious wrote: »

They won't be closed unless maintenance/admin staff go out too.

I recall that, back in 2000, the secretary said that she and her colleague in the office were not at work on the strike days.

spurious · 14-11-2014 3:05pm

If the school is not open, there is no way to determine who is or is not making themselves available for work.

Everyone could say they tried to get in and couldn't.

km79 · 14-11-2014 3:23pm

endakenny wrote: »

Given that most teachers are union members, it would be impracticable for non-unionised teachers to enter the school on a strike day. Furthermore, even if it was possible, it would be unfair on pupils whose teachers are union members.

during the 2009 strike non union members were expected to report for work as normal in our school and did.
The school was open. They are getting paid so they go to work.
can I ask Enda are you a teacher ? You post a lot on the forum and post s lot of stuff as fact when it is not.
Having said that if you are not a teacher you are actually a lot more informed than a lot of teachers I know which says a lot about the way the profession is going

endakenny · 14-11-2014 3:33pm

km79 wrote: »

during the 2009 strike non union members were expected to report for work as normal in our school and did.
The school was open. They are getting paid so they go to work.
can I ask Enda are you a teacher ? You post a lot on the forum and post s lot of stuff as fact when it is not.
Having said that if you are not a teacher you are actually a lot more informed than a lot of teachers I know which says a lot about the way the profession is going

I'm not a teacher.

km79 · 14-11-2014 3:34pm

endakenny wrote: »

I'm not a teacher.

fair enough
as I said you are a lot more informed on a lot of our issues than my colleagues which is half the reason we are where we are

sitstill · 14-11-2014 4:12pm

Join a union. Or phone in sick.

KrustyBurger · 14-11-2014 4:19pm

chases0102 wrote: »

Folks,

What are the options for non-unionised teachers here? Cross the picket and undermine your colleagues?

Or don't cross the picket.

I'm not in a union, I left years ago but I wouldn't cross a picket. So I'll have my salary docked the same as my unionised colleagues.

Bobsammy · 14-11-2014 5:03pm

I filled out the online form to join the TUI in September but never got anything from them in the post and I never thought to follow up on it until this week. I've emailed them there today but haven't heard anything back yet. I hope they get back to me soon because I think we'll be in a very tricky position otherwise.

evolving_doors · 14-11-2014 5:14pm

implausible wrote: »

Now, I'm hardly stupid enough to be basing that observation on what the book reps say!

At Union meetings, INOTE conference and meeting with teachers in other schools in the county, I've found that the vast majority are using a new textbook, some like myself applied the new learning outcomes to the old book before deciding on a new text. ALL of the books refer to assessment and learning outcomes and I'm thankful for some of it as it's more useful that anything we were given at the laughably terrible inservice.

If you are engaging with learning outcomes and assessment (in line with JCSA ) aren't you going against a union directive?

evolving_doors · 14-11-2014 5:23pm

eyescreamcone wrote: »

The junior cert is only regarded as a stepping stone to the leaving cert. No employer would regard the present junior cert highly.

If you dont recognise the importance of that stepping stone and its educational purpose then youare missing the point.

Since when was the junior cert meant as a training program for the world of work at 15-16 years of age anyway?

Its about education... not providing economic units for factories.

spurious · 14-11-2014 5:23pm

Bobsammy wrote: »

I filled out the online form to join the TUI in September but never got anything from them in the post and I never thought to follow up on it until this week. I've emailed them there today but haven't heard anything back yet. I hope they get back to me soon because I think we'll be in a very tricky position otherwise.

OT I realise, but to address this...

Your application will have been sent by TUI Head Office to your local Branch Treasurer or Secretary (whichever handles membership in your Branch). There will have been the AGM since you applied, but they should have run memberships through at a committee meeting. Ask your school rep to check with your local Treasurer or Secretary.

Bobsammy · 14-11-2014 5:33pm

spurious wrote: »

OT I realise, but to address this...

Your application will have been sent by TUI Head Office to your local Branch Treasurer or Secretary (whichever handles membership in your Branch). There will have been the AGM since you applied, but they should have run memberships through at a committee meeting. Ask your school rep to check with your local Treasurer or Secretary.

Thank you! I will ask on Monday!

evolving_doors · 14-11-2014 5:34pm

chases0102 wrote: »

Folks,

What are the options for non-unionised teachers here? Cross the picket and undermine your colleagues?

If you want to get paid for the day write a letter saying you are available for work that day!

In saying all that , a lot of principals and vp
's are also union members, so they should be facilitating the strike in solidarity.

Of they are not they may ask you to show up to do 'paperwork' so you may be asked to cross the picket (highly unlikely!) In which case you could put in for a personal day... maybe.

Also if you are privately paid they have no way of knowing if you are in the union or not... (the ASTI accepts privately paid teachers into the union). So you could say nout .

You are also free to join any picket you want I would presume...even if you are not a member.

eyescreamcone · 14-11-2014 6:24pm

Armelodie wrote: »

If you dont recognise the importance of that stepping stone and its educational purpose then youare missing the point.

Since when was the junior cert meant as a training program for the world of work at 15-16 years of age anyway?

Its about education... not providing economic units for factories.

Of course the junior cert is a stepping stone. As is 1st year and 2nd year.
3rd year summer exams do not have to be state exams. You can get just as much out of it as an in house examination in my opinion.

Also, teachers, while their opinion's are valid, are not the decision makers here.
The decision makers are the elected politicians - elected by those who pay for the system.

I feel that the teachers are against the proposal - not for educational purposes, but for selfish reasons. (better conditions etc)
Fair enough if that is the case, but come out and say it.
Don't hide behind the shield of "better education" - we're not buying it!

Benicetomonty · 14-11-2014 6:37pm

eyescreamcone wrote: »

Of course the junior cert is a stepping stone. As is 1st year and 2nd year.
3rd year summer exams do not have to be state exams. You can get just as much out of it as an in house examination in my opinion.

Also, teachers, while their opinion's are valid, are not the decision makers here.
The decision makers are the elected politicians - elected by those who pay for the system.

I feel that the teachers are against the proposal - not for educational purposes, but for selfish reasons. (better conditions etc)
Fair enough if that is the case, but come out and say it.
Don't hide behind the shield of "better education" - we're not buying it!

Even as prep for the Leaving Cert, the Junior Cert has worth and makes it more than a house exam as far as a stepping stone is concerned. Everything about it as it is currently prepares a student for the Leaving Certificate exam, which most would argue is an important factor.

Decision makers make mistakes, and they get challenged in democracies. Do you believe Irish Water has been well thought out? The same crowd are in charge.

Re: selfishness, I'll quite happily admit that as an English teacher, I resent the fact that I'll have to do more work over the school calender for the next few years (without payment) than many of my colleagues who teach different subjects that haven't yet been phased in (and may not be for several years.)

maynooth_rules · 14-11-2014 6:46pm

chases0102 wrote: »

Folks,

What are the options for non-unionised teachers here? Cross the picket and undermine your colleagues?

It would take a pretty morally vacant person to walk past their striking colleagues and walk into work. Id imagine a lot of your colleagues would not talk to your for quite a while if you did

rainbowtrout · 14-11-2014 6:57pm

eyescreamcone wrote: »

Of course the junior cert is a stepping stone. As is 1st year and 2nd year.
3rd year summer exams do not have to be state exams. You can get just as much out of it as an in house examination in my opinion.

Also, teachers, while their opinion's are valid, are not the decision makers here.
The decision makers are the elected politicians - elected by those who pay for the system.

I feel that the teachers are against the proposal - not for educational purposes, but for selfish reasons. (better conditions etc)
Fair enough if that is the case, but come out and say it.
Don't hide behind the shield of "better education" - we're not buying it!

There are plenty of students out there who do not take in house exams seriously, but when it comes to the real thing in third year, they knuckle down and get the work done. Can't see this in house version being the same sort of carrot.

Teachers are stakeholders in the education system. So far the Minister for Education has not paid any heed to their opinions on the new proposals.

This is a system that has been in the UK for about 20 years or so. Guess what, it hasn't worked and they are reverting to terminal exams, just when our government have planned to abandon ours.

So basically to sum up teachers are saying that they are against it for educational reasons but you choose not to believe that, just because?

We have come out and made our position clear. If you have children or ever have children why would you want them to have a cheaper, value brand education?

To give you an example, the new draft science syllabus was published around 6 weeks ago. I'm a science teacher. I notice there is no mention of sound and light in the physics section, no urinary system, senses, chemistry is called materials studies - why do you think that is?

Also some of the projects they have proposed include 'do a career investigation into a science career you might find interesting'. Create a powerpoint project on an element of the periodic table of your choice'

Most telling is the fact that the current science syllabus has a recommendation of 240-270 contact hours over 3 years. The new course recommendation is 200 contact hours. So less science over three years.

This is from a government who keep telling us that students should be aiming for STEM subjects and careers. Why cut the recommended time then, and some of the basic tenets of the course as it currently stands? Why do students need to know they have a stomach, but not kidneys?

doc11 · 14-11-2014 7:03pm

maynooth_rules wrote: »

It would take a pretty morally vacant person to walk past their striking colleagues and walk into work. Id imagine a lot of your colleagues would not talk to your for quite a while if you did

Morals won't put food on table, very easy for older colleagues on top of their pay scales and allowances to take a hit compared to younger part time teachers. What about those who stay in bed or go on a shopping trip on the strike day are they morally corrupt too.

Pwpane · 14-11-2014 7:13pm

doc11 wrote: »

Morals won't put food on table, very easy for older colleagues on top of their pay scales and allowances to take a hit compared to younger part time teachers. What about those who stay in bed or go on a shopping trip on the strike day are they morally corrupt too.

What are you on about, doc11??

Whose career will be more affected - the younger part time teachers or their older colleagues?

As for the relevance of your last point.....

rainbowtrout · 14-11-2014 7:13pm

doc11 wrote: »

Morals won't put food on table, very easy for older colleagues on top of their pay scales and allowances to take a hit compared to younger part time teachers. What about those who stay in bed or go on a shopping trip on the strike day are they morally corrupt too.

Maybe, maybe not. Older teacher might earn more but are also more likely to have children which means more costs and mortgages.

Maybe you're not aware but teachers have to put a strike rota together for the day of the strike. I was the union rep the last time we went on strike in the 09/10 school year and I had to do it.

RTE had a disgraceful bulletin on the Six-One news that night. There was a major traffic jam outside Newry and they basically said that it was all the teachers that were supposed to be on strike that were off doing their shopping up the north. It was like a throwaway comment in After Hours. They very conveniently omitted to mention the car crash that caused the backlog on the day. All of the teachers turned up for strike at my school that day.

maynooth_rules · 14-11-2014 7:16pm

doc11 wrote: »

Morals won't put food on table, very easy for older colleagues on top of their pay scales and allowances to take a hit compared to younger part time teachers. What about those who stay in bed or go on a shopping trip on the strike day are they morally corrupt too.

I am a young part time teacher. This is about showing solidarity with your colleagues and not being a scab.

doc11 · 14-11-2014 7:37pm

maynooth_rules wrote: »

I am a young part time teacher. This is about showing solidarity with your colleagues and not being a scab.

If your a young (potential) teacher you have already been thrown under the bus. There was little solidarity when allowances removed and paycuts introduced for new colleagues. Even extending the PGDE to a 2 year masters making teaching out of reach for the working class. Unions didn't care.

Everyone is out to feather there own nest, scab or otherwise.

MrJones1973 · 14-11-2014 7:52pm

Please refer back to the question I posted . Gone way off topic!

rainbowtrout · 14-11-2014 7:56pm

Mrwhite1970 wrote: »

Please refer back to the question I posted . Gone way off topic!

And your OP was about what way people were voting, which is now redundant.

People are now talking about the reasons we are going on strike, I can't see how that is off topic.

Or maybe we could go back 30-40 posts and welcome back the posts that troll the shit out of this forum regularly without repercussion.

Pwpane · 14-11-2014 8:15pm

doc11 wrote: »

If your a young (potential) teacher you have already been thrown under the bus. There was little solidarity when allowances removed and paycuts introduced for new colleagues. Even extending the PGDE to a 2 year masters making teaching out of reach for the working class. Unions didn't care.

Everyone is out to feather there own nest, scab or otherwise.

Speak for yourself.

If you want any improvement in the profession, how do you suggest that you achieve it? Fight for it, or watch while others fight for it?

implausible · 14-11-2014 8:27pm

Armelodie wrote: »

If you are engaging with learning outcomes and assessment (in line with JCSA ) aren't you going against a union directive?

Of course I'm engaging with learning outcomes and assessment! Every subject has learning outcomes and assessment! I teach 1st, 2nd, 4rd, 5th and 6th year English, I am constantly marking copies, this is assessment! Should I stop in case I be accused of going against a union directive? Should I stop telling my class at the start what they will learn in case this is verboten?

The teaching of English has not changed radically in first year, you still teach them how to write a report for example, except when the JCSA comes in, you'll have to explicitly match that up to a learning outcome in your planning. The major change will arrive when we have to gather up a collection of work and conduct an oral examination in second year.

Teachers are using new books, not because of radically new content, but because it makes planning easier and eventually will make it easier to focus on oral language.

aunt aggie · 14-11-2014 8:35pm

I'm not exactly a new teacher but not in a union either. Personally I want to hold off on joining one because I want to see how this plays out. Unions have just rolled over too many times in the past for me to give them my money in subs. There way they've allowed new teachers pay and conditions to be eroded just makes me not trust them at all.

I taught in England during strikes and it was very different. Union members who wanted to strike did, those who didnt want to strike came to school and there wasnt any judgement of young new staff who werent in a union, coming into school on a strike day. From the tone of this thread, especially the use of the term scab, Im guessing there is going to be a lot of judgement.

endakenny · 14-11-2014 8:56pm

Armelodie wrote: »

If you dont recognise the importance of that stepping stone and its educational purpose then youare missing the point.

Since when was the junior cert meant as a training program for the world of work at 15-16 years of age anyway?

Its about education... not providing economic units for factories.

The JCSA will still be a stepping stone; it'll have the Department's logo on the certificate and it will reduce stress by reducing the emphasis on terminal exams, meaning that the end-of-junior-cycle assessment will be more than just a rehearsal for the LC and will let students conserve their mental energy for the LC.

It may have been argued in the past that the abolition of the Primary Cert would leave pupils unprepared for secondary education but that fear didn't materialise. The same logic applies to the transition from JCSA to LC.

amacca · 14-11-2014 9:10pm

endakenny wrote: »

It may have been argued in the past that the abolition of the Primary Cert would leave pupils unprepared for secondary education but that fear didn't materialise. The same logic applies to the transition from JCSA to LC.

I'm not so sure the same logic applies at all….

Ive seen many a student who benefitted greatly from the rude awakening the JC gave them …where no amount of advice or warnings succeded beforehand…the stark reality of the result gave them a good insight into just what was really required to avoid a repeat performance in the Leaving Cert. I've also seen it motivate and increase the confidence of weaker students who were rewarded for their hard work.

I suppose the opposite could be true for another cohort of students but on balance I felt it did a lot less harm than good.

MrJones1973 · 14-11-2014 9:29pm

Very few young teachers attend branch meetings. Its a chicken and egg scenario They don't go and thus their issues don't get priority .They claim issues not raised so they don't go.We have all been screwed over last few years. Improvement in young teachers conditions will only come through the unions. Nowhere else.

Jamfa · 14-11-2014 9:36pm

Benicetomonty wrote: »

Even as prep for the Leaving Cert, the Junior Cert has worth and makes it more than a house exam as far as a stepping stone is concerned. Everything about it as it is currently prepares a student for the Leaving Certificate exam, which most would argue is an important factor.

Decision makers make mistakes, and they get challenged in democracies. Do you believe Irish Water has been well thought out? The same crowd are in charge.

Re: selfishness, I'll quite happily admit that as an English teacher, I resent the fact that I'll have to do more work over the school calender for the next few years (without payment) than many of my colleagues who teach different subjects that haven't yet been phased in (and may not be for several years.)

What extra work? Curricular change is JC English hasn't happened for 25 years so a new syllabus is well due. The school-based assessments involve a 3 min oral presentation at the end of 2nd year & a collection of their written assignments over 2nd & 3rd year. Both of these will take place in normal school time & I can't see how it's much different than what you do already. Much better to have other forms of assessment for English than a written exam in June of 3rd year.

Strike On ! Proposed New Junior Cert **See Mod Warning Post #1**

Comments

Strike On ! Proposed New Junior Cert See Mod Warning Post #1