old guys, tell me about your Bren experiences.

harmoniums · 27-12-2011 6:08pm #1

I just ordered a semi-auto re-weld build

I should have it in by mid February!

I've sourced a ring mount for my M35A2 truck (US deuce and a half), so I'm thinking about making up an adapter and fitting it on that.

Stovepipe · 27-12-2011 8:08pm

Drooolll!!! Saw that model in Stores but never fired it. Only fired the later, plainer ones (no drum sight, different flash eliminator, plainer butt, less fitting for anti-aircraft mount). Great gun.

regards
Stovepipe

Local-womanizer · 28-12-2011 4:06am

Fired the later one too, but I loved it. Very accurate and easy to fire. Only fired 40 rounds out of it mind you so my experience was a brief but enjoyable one.

Enjoy it Harmoniums,ya lucky fecker!

*I am not an oldie btw, had the chance to fire one before it was retired*

goldie fish · 28-12-2011 12:18pm

Never liked it. Too heavy to be practical, with firepower no better than an automatic rifle. Lugged it around on a tactical ex for 48 hours in 1988, and unlike everyone else on ex, couldnt fire blanks.It's a rifle with a bipod, only less accurate. Throw a bipod on a FN and you would get better results.
It stopped being useful when belt fed light machine guns were invented. The magazine provides an unnecessary unavoidable stoppage.

youtheman · 28-12-2011 12:22pm

Fired it when I was in the FCA in the late 1970's. The obvious difference between it and the Lee Enfield .303 is that your shoulder wasn't dislocated after firing it. We were all 'under age' in those days, having doctored our date-of-birth to join up. So a 16 year old firing the Lee Enfield all day on the range was a fairly sobering experience. Then when you graduated onto the Bren Gun it was a pleasant transition in that the thing didn't 'kick back'.

Those were the days !!!!!!

Nuttzz · 28-12-2011 1:01pm

Like goldie without real ammo it was a pain in the arse for tactical exs

However being the first weapon where you could fire a burst from it was a real thrill to do so, but carrying around the weight of 5 mags with 30 rounds each was impracticable really.

krissovo · 28-12-2011 2:11pm

I found it the most accurate automatic weapon I ever fired if you have a fairly stable platform. Groupings tended to be in the millimeters and a lot of rounds would follow the same path going through the same hole on the target. As the ejection port is underneath you do not get the creep that you do with more modern automatic weapons and gravity would prevent ejection lift. When it went 7.62 (LMG) it got even more accurate.

Negatives: Pain in the ass to carry as there is absolutely no comfy position to hold, the best I found was strap over my neck with the weapon across my chest resting on webbing.

30 rounds would go in a flash.

Magazines were a weakness either dirt or the spring losing its tension would cause stoppages. If you can get a 20 round magazine like a SLR/FN type it would be a lot more reliable.

goldie fish · 28-12-2011 2:48pm

Oh, I forgot to mention...casings up the sleeve!
AHHHH!(cue mad flapping on the firing line)

iceage · 28-12-2011 6:14pm

Fired it with the plainer stock with both the FCA and the British ACF. Loved it except when charging around the place with it.

Stovepipe · 28-12-2011 6:24pm

There were several attempts to upgrade it, include one project called a Motley Gun, which had a 200-rd drum, in the style of the Vickers GO used by air gunners in Allied bombers in WW 2. There were also home made lash ups with extended mags, to give a 50-odd round capacity.

regards
Stovepipe

goldie fish · 28-12-2011 7:33pm

Stovepipe wrote: »

There were several attempts to upgrade it, include one project called a Motley Gun, which had a 200-rd drum, in the style of the Vickers GO used by air gunners in Allied bombers in WW 2. There were also home made lash ups with extended mags, to give a 50-odd round capacity.

regards
Stovepipe

The British converted theirs to 7.62, but if was prone to magazine related stoppages.

rednik · 28-12-2011 7:36pm

Fired it in the FCA in the late 70s, if I remember correctly it was known as the "runaway gun".

Lemming · 28-12-2011 7:52pm

krissovo wrote: »

I found it the most accurate automatic weapon I ever fired if you have a fairly stable platform. Groupings tended to be in the millimeters and a lot of rounds would follow the same path going through the same hole on the target. As the ejection port is underneath you do not get the creep that you do with more modern automatic weapons and gravity would prevent ejection lift. When it went 7.62 (LMG) it got even more accurate.

I seem to recall reading somewhere that during WW2, Bren gunners preferred using worn barrels to create a wider target spread since the gun was considered too accurate for a support gun

Stovepipe · 28-12-2011 10:31pm

@rednik, I only ever had "runaways" with GPMGs, twice, stopped in both cases by twisting the belt. The Bren was as reliable as a Swiss watch and as tough as old boots. I found it to be very "pointable", for want of any other word. Once, on the ranges, the NCOs set up a line of snap targets, in the style of a section, and one of them demonstrated the accuracy and lethality of the Bren by cutting them down in one sweep from 300 yards. Very effective as a firepower demo.

regards
Stovepipe

goldie fish · 28-12-2011 10:50pm

rednik wrote: »

Fired it in the FCA in the late 70s, if I remember correctly it was known as the "runaway gun".

Never heard that one with a magazine fed weapon. if the gun runs away, take off the magazine, it stops firing.

kieranfitz · 29-12-2011 1:48am

goldie fish wrote: »

Never heard that one with a magazine fed weapon. if the gun runs away, take off the magazine, it stops firing.

Maybe a reference to the fact that it tended to recoil slightly forwards instead of back. Must admit I loved shooting it but we always had gpmgs on the ground.

krissovo · 29-12-2011 12:06pm

kieranfitz wrote: »

Maybe a reference to the fact that it tended to recoil slightly forwards instead of back. Must admit I loved shooting it but we always had gpmgs on the ground.

I forgot about that, getting pulled up the range was a great craic.

goldie fish · 29-12-2011 12:31pm

krissovo wrote: »

I forgot about that, getting pulled up the range was a great craic.

if you were a small animal perhaps...

kieranfitz · 29-12-2011 1:26pm

goldie fish wrote: »

if you were a small animal perhaps...

Like a gold fish perhaps?

gizmo555 · 29-12-2011 6:55pm

kieranfitz wrote: »

Maybe a reference to the fact that it tended to recoil slightly forwards instead of back. Must admit I loved shooting it but we always had gpmgs on the ground.

krissovo wrote: »

I forgot about that, getting pulled up the range was a great craic.

I do remember the NCO instructing us on the Bren pointing out that the bipod feet had holes just the right diameter that a couple of spent cartridge cases could be used as pegs to fix the bipod firmly to the spot.

I don't know if this was the intended purpose of the holes or whether this was just a work around arising from experience with the weapon. Anyone else know?

Stovepipe · 29-12-2011 7:01pm

@gizmo, did that myself on the ranges. It worked but was unworkable for actual tactical training.

regards
Stovepipe

galwaycyclist · 30-12-2011 2:45pm

I loved it I think they were a fabulous piece of kit. As a piece of engineering they were of a different time. Among the snaggy old NCOs, the Bren seems to me to evoke genuine affection that other weapons don't really seem to.

Certainly if I wished to have my own LMG for my own range shooting it would be the Bren no question.

I have a recollection of being issued in the RDF, some time in the last decade, effectively brand new Brens still in the packing cases. When the GPMG came in some of our Brens can't have had more than a few thousand rounds fired - if even.

xflyer · 30-12-2011 5:31pm

Most soldiers who fired it, but not all I notice, loved the Bren. Maybe not carrying it around although that's a problem with all LMGs.

What I noticed was how quiet it seemed with the ejection slot underneath. It was also accurate, too accurate as some pointed out. But that was only if you were actually aiming at the target. I remember on the range in Kilpedder firing the Bren, a little bit low so my rounds were hitting the ground just below the target. To make it worse the idiot beside was also firing low at MY target. If you've ever been in the butts you know how that sounds even with single shots. Here were two machine guns doing it. Apparently there were recruits operating the targets. Their first time 'under fire'. I heard they were sh***ing themselves.

Wicklowrider · 02-01-2012 1:34pm

My father was sent down from Clancy bks sometime in the '60's with a Bren gun carrier to take part in the Easter Parade. It broke down somewhere near O'Connell bridge so they took the weapons and got the bus back up to islandbridge

V Bull · 02-01-2012 10:38pm

The Bren has got to be one of the best guns that I have ever shot over the years..Loved it..:):)

BigDuffman · 03-01-2012 12:58pm

Fond memories of the bren. I always found it a pleasure to fire (first gun I was ever any use with!).

Yeah sticking brass in the bipod feet and pulling her right back to try compensate the "rock".

The age of the weapons when we had them meant we were told to only load 28 rds as the springs in the mags were knackered.

Spending ages doing the reload drill and the heel of your palm would be sore from banging off the mag catch and mag in same motion.

I remember my first major tax ex as I 2*. I had to carry the bren and was gutted as everyone else had pyro coming out their ar$e.

Where are you living OP?

fenris · 03-01-2012 1:17pm

I really enjoyed firing the Bren, the accuracy was great, there were often heated debates on whether two rounds had gone through the same hole.

A couple of us woke up to the realisation that shooting too well landed you on Bn shooting teams where your had to listen to way too much bull from the "shooters/mountainey men" (the lads with the long hair that that didn't know left from right, marched like they had dug their way out of a shallow grave, produced one intelligible word if for but jesus could they shoot) as well as covering their asses by being the presentable ones while they were hidden in the wagon.

So we perfected the art of blowing the legs off of the four foot targets once you got your qualifying score (but not enough to end up on a team). The whinging from the butts as yet another target toppled made up for the freezing damp hours on security!

Muppet Man · 03-01-2012 6:02pm

I fired it competitively for about 10 years in the Reserve's and I miss it dearly since the change over the GMPG. It was a beautiful weapon to fire. In competition there was always arguments about the holes in the bipod shoes – sometimes you were allowed to pin the gun down with empty 303 casings and sometimes not. The holes in the shoes would only take about two thirds of the casing anyway, so I’m not convinced that was their original purpose. I do remember one shoot where someone had tampered with the holes in the Bipod shoes to take the full length of the casing and they were promptly disqualified. Also remember some of the old-schoolers having “special” 303 casings with a 6 inch spike out the top to give extra depth… no names…

The small magazine and a box 12 of magazines in a (heavy) metal box made it almost impractical as a section support weapon – especially for the poor bastard carrying it. Its true too that it was just too accurate. Additionally on tactics, no blank adaptors and often no belt to carry it over your shoulder. Long day.

I also remember zeroing it at 100 yards – the fall of shot had to be 1 inch high and 1 inch right of the white patch due to the rear apperature sights being set at 200 yards and also because the sights were offset to the left. Zeroing was complicated even more because the fore sight only came in graduations of 3 inches (I think it was a 3 inches).I used to fire with a “37” sight, the next smaller sight was a “34”, which you would bring up the target. Moving left/right was a lesson in gentle persuasion with a heavy hammer and screwdriver.

At the change over to the GPMG many Brens were still in stores packaged in heavy paper – never having fired a shot - and locked / jammed solid in grease. We did manage to secure 2 new bren guns for one all-army competition which took about a few gallons of “Jizer” and a lot of patience to degrease.

The gas settings – of which there were only four – were fairly simple and easy to change. Most Immedaite Actions were typically a badly filled magazine (the rounds had to be rim in front of rim), or broken magazine and less rarely insufficient gas. A simple, strong and accurate weapon. But the move to belt fed just had to happen.

Muppet Man

Stovepipe · 03-01-2012 6:22pm

@muppetman,
I think the British Army might disagree about it's tactical utility as a section weapon. They loved it, especially because of it's accuracy and ease of use. I think the only thing they regretted about the Bren was that it's competition in WW 2 was the MG34 and 42. Of all the magazine-fed machine-guns, it was probably the best. In the FCA, I did see "home-made" Bren slings made out of converted rifle slings or, in one case, a fine leather sling made by a farrier!
Still, it was great fun to fire and I only wish it had been fitted for left-handers as well.

regards
Stovepipe

Muppet Man · 03-01-2012 8:14pm

Agreed

yeah, I vaguely remember two lee enfield 303 slings connected to make a sling for the Bren, but by and large, it was deemed punishment to be the bren carrier on tactics and there was no way (my) CQMS would come across with two very valuable lee enfield slings

I was just citing its impracticality for section support (with my very limited tactic experience) based on its relatively small mag and pain the arse for lugging all the mags and mag box around. Obviously though, awesomely accurate and at distances well above the 300 yrd mark as well.

Cheers
Muppet Man

harmoniums · 04-01-2012 12:02am

BigDuffman wrote: »

Fond memories of the bren. I always found it a pleasure to fire (first gun I was ever any use with!).

Yeah sticking brass in the bipod feet and pulling her right back to try compensate the "rock".

Where are you living OP?

Southern California, USA.

I wonder if using not fired brass (ie live/pulled rounds) would stake it better?
Fired brass always swells a bit as the chamber has to be a wee bit bigger than the new round.

Maoltuile · 04-01-2012 12:51am

It's considered the best of the LMGs (at least those not belt-fed), and with good reason.

The FN LMG variants that someone mentioned were disasters, and for a reason that would be apparent to any good soldier; you can't quick-change the barrel, which would of course quickly overheat in a MG role.

Loved the Bren Gun, sorry to see it go. I never bothered with the stick-brass-through-the-bipods-trick; I just dug in with my heel beneath each bipod leg, simples

Stovepipe · 04-01-2012 3:08pm

I'm told that the standard anti-aircraft mount was a disaster. Anyone got any pictures?

regards
Stovepipe

Maoltuile · 04-01-2012 3:35pm

Stovepipe wrote: »

I'm told that the standard anti-aircraft mount was a disaster. Anyone got any pictures?

regards
Stovepipe

I've seen some for sale online, no idea if they're the same as the Irish DF ones though.

I'll have a look in my trusty old Bren Gun manual at home, to see if it says anything on the subject. Black smoke for no, white smoke for yes

harmoniums · 02-04-2012 2:11am

So I just received it!
Its been talked about how it recoils forward, and that never made any sense to me, I just couldn't get my head around the physics of a projectile exiting the barrel and the gun following it!

But after dry firing it a bit, (haven't got to the range yet) I think I can see how this forward recoil may be perceived.

You see it fires from an open bolt, meaning the bolt and carrier/piston is held to the rear by the sear under tension from the recoil spring.
When you squeeze the trigger the whole group accelerates forward inside the receiver (body in non-colonial terms).

The bolt/carrier/piston is a very heavy, possibly that is what you guys were feeling?

I made up a video walk through about it here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxf0Vvjc80g

I've been told I am going to be dog piled on for wearing Irish DPM in this video!
I'm not trying to "Walt" or anything, I bought them at a gunshow here in the states and at the time was un-aware of any prohibition on re-sale, I was excited to find them!
(BTW all the mall ninjas here in the US, think they're really cool)

Muppet Man · 02-04-2012 7:58am

Nice job, I have to admit I laughed when you dropped the extractor... found memories of me doing the same when I was a recruit and getting (deservedly) chewed out

. I hope you got the spring back on afterwards

Moot point, but when we stripped it, we basically did the reverse of what you did... we started by opening the body locking bolt, and extending back the butt group, but not fully detaching it. When the butt group was extended back (but not detached from the body group) the piston usually slid back due to gravity. If not, a quick yank of the cocking handle got it back. We then just moved the return spring rod slightly to the side to make more room and lifted out the piston group. Once that was out, we took off the butt group, opened the barrel locking nut, off with the barrel and then took out the barrell locking nut (which I dont think you took off). Lastly the Bipod. Obviously the sling would be next if you had one.

As part of standard traning for stripping/assembling we did NOT take out the extractor because people were always either a) loosing the extractor/stay/spring or b) Once they got them out, couldnt put them together again.

As a firer though, it was something you had to know how to do to spot / replace breakages and to be able to clean.

What a great purchase - happy shooting. I dead envious.
Muppet Man

*Edit* we actually "started" by ensuring the action wasn't cocked... Opening the body locking nut when the Bren is cocked can lead to nasty "incidents".
*Edit 2* we also took out the gas plug as part of standard stripping. From memory we used to set this to the third largest hole by default during reassembly.
*Edit 3* Is there any more of the DPM's available? Need a new pants

old guys, tell me about your Bren experiences.

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