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Any spare change bud?

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  • 21-11-2010 4:37pm
    #1
    kilburn
    Registered Users Posts: 3,912 ✭✭✭


    On another leisurely stroll from the Hunt museum to the O'Connell monument recently, i was struck yet again by the slum this city is turning into. Dont get me wrong I love Limerick and im proud to be from here but ffs will somebody please stand up and stop the rut.

    The hole place is boarded up. One of those units on Patrick St looks like it is going to fall out onto the road and kill someone. Crap everywhere, Why dont the street cleaners work evenings?

    The amount of beggars and junkies is unreal. We need to highlight this big time folks. Limerick has a very serious heroin problem, heroin addicts are the scum of the earth and need to be dealt with. They would cut your head off for a euro and our guards just seem to ignore them.

    I saw a squad car pull up outside Supermacs and the guards went in for their grub and ignored the junkies hassling people ten feet away. This would not happen anywhere else! Why do we put up with it?


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    #2
    brousuka
    Registered Users Posts: 412 ✭✭brousuka


    The junkies and scobes begging on the streets seems to be an issue that does not want to be addressed by the powers that be in this city. Despite all the tourist marketing and websites that are initiated it just all goes down the drain when anyone walks the streets of Limerick at night - it's despicable, dangerous and needless. A couple of runs a night from a Garda people carrier should wind up all these individuals, take them to a holding centre, charge them and have them brought to justice.


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    #3
    daveob007
    Registered Users Posts: 982 ✭✭✭daveob007


    kilburn wrote: »
    On another leisurely stroll from the Hunt museum to the O'Connell monument recently, i was struck yet again by the slum this city is turning into. Dont get me wrong I love Limerick and im proud to be from here but ffs will somebody please stand up and stop the rut.

    The hole place is boarded up. One of those units on Patrick St looks like it is going to fall out onto the road and kill someone. Crap everywhere, Why dont the street cleaners work evenings?

    The amount of beggars and junkies is unreal. We need to highlight this big time folks. Limerick has a very serious heroin problem, heroin addicts are the scum of the earth and need to be dealt with. They would cut your head off for a euro and our guards just seem to ignore them. I see where you are coming from but to describe heroin addicts as the scum of the earth is wrong,,it's the drug dealers who get these people hooked who are the real scum,the junkies are victims of these scum who get addicted at a very young age.
    They are stupid to get involved in drugs of any sort but when they move on to heroin or crack cocaine is when their lives become dedicated to getting the next fix and thats when they can be dangerous,,the addiction is so bad that they would do anything to anyone to get the money to pay the dealers for the drugs.
    I don't know of any place in Limerick where these junkies can get help,maybe there is but if not then there should be.
    It's the same as being an alcaholic or a gambler,,the money is needed for the habit and without help nothing can be done.
    I would be afraid of them and cross the street if i see them but have some sympathy for them also.
    The city centre is not policed enough either,you can walk through the whole town and never see a guard,this needs to be done also...


    I saw a squad car pull up outside Supermacs and the guards went in for their grub and ignored the junkies hassling people ten feet away. This would not happen anywhere else! Why do we put up with it?
    ..


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    #4
    Amazotheamazing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,048 ✭✭✭Amazotheamazing


    daveob007 wrote: »
    .

    I don't know of any place in Limerick where these junkies can get help,maybe there is but if not then there should be.
    It's the same as being an alcaholic or a gambler,,the money is needed for the habit and without help nothing can be done.

    .

    There's a treatment clinic opening on Mungret street, afaik.


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    #5
    source
    Registered Users Posts: 5,269 ✭✭✭source


    This comes up every few months and every few months i have to drag up the same old response, the problem with beggars is that there is no law against it.

    About 3 years ago, a beggar in Dublin was arrested and prosecuted under the old vagrancy acts which outlawed begging on the street. This enterprising young man went to court saying that the law was unconstitutional as under the constitution he was entitled to make a living, and this was his only source of income. He also claimed that the Act breached his constitutional right to freedom of expression and his right to communicate. The high court held that the 19th century Act was indeed unconstitutional and repealed it.

    This is why the Gardai you saw did nothing about the people begging. There is no power to do anything about begging on the street until the Government get the finger out and introduce proper anti begging laws.

    LINK

    There are many places for drug addicts to get help in Limerick, such as Slainte, Aljeff, etc etc.... The problem is for these treatments to work the addict first has to want it to work, and most of them don't.


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    #6
    Kess73
    Registered Users Posts: 25,560 ✭✭✭✭Kess73


    foinse wrote: »
    This comes up every few months and every few months i have to drag up the same old response, the problem with beggars is that there is no law against it.

    About 3 years ago, a beggar in Dublin was arrested and prosecuted under the old vagrancy acts which outlawed begging on the street. This enterprising young man went to court saying that the law was unconstitutional as under the constitution he was entitled to make a living, and this was his only source of income. He also claimed that the Act breached his constitutional right to freedom of expression and his right to communicate. The high court held that the 19th century Act was indeed unconstitutional and repealed it.

    This is why the Gardai you saw did nothing about the people begging. There is no power to do anything about begging on the street until the Government get the finger out and introduce proper anti begging laws.

    LINK

    There are many places for drug addicts to get help in Limerick, such as Slainte, Aljeff, etc etc.... The problem is for these treatments to work the addict first has to want it to work, and most of them don't.







    But there are laws that deal with loitering and intimidation. So if a begger or junkie decides to set up camp sitting underneath an ATM or stays in the same spot by a shop entrance or eatery entrance, then the Gardai can move them on or charge them if they persist.

    Also the beggers/junkies who get aggressive in their methods can be charged if they are witnessed being aggressive by the Gardai or if a person is willing to make a statement to the gardai after an aggressive act.


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    #7
    RonMexico
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,916 ✭✭✭RonMexico


    Loitering laws are never enforced. If they were we wouldn't have gangs hanging around street corners all over the city.

    Remember when the business community went to the papers a few months ago about the number of beggars on the streets? Well for about a week or two afterwards the Gardai were actually visible in the city on foot patrol and I witnessed them moving a number of these people from outside shops around the city.

    Proof that it can be done when they are put under pressure. Also proof that for the rest of the time they couldn't be arsed.


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    #8
    Kess73
    Registered Users Posts: 25,560 ✭✭✭✭Kess73


    RonMexico wrote: »
    Loitering laws are never enforced. If they were we wouldn't have gangs hanging around street corners all over the city.

    Remember when the business community went to the papers a few months ago about the number of beggars on the streets? Well for about a week or two afterwards the Gardai were actually visible in the city on foot patrol and I witnessed them moving a number of these people from outside shops around the city.

    Proof that it can be done when they are put under pressure. Also proof that for the rest of the time they couldn't be arsed.


    I know the gardai don't enforce the loitering laws generally, but the laws are in place, and as such can be enforced when there is an obvious breaking of it, such as in cases like what the OP stated.


    I do remember the week where the gardai actually enforced the laws and it was very noticeable, but that was just done for show after the complaints made the papers and they have just gone back to turning a blind eye to what is going on again.

    Patrick street in Cork is a good example of local gardai actually moving on beggers/junkies on a regular basis. Sure the odd one still tries to brazen it out, but they have nowhere near the number of beggers/junkies that get ignored by the gardai on a regular basis on O'Connell street in Limerick.

    I know there are two issues to be dealt with in what the OP spoke about. The need to try and help the people that are begging/junkies, and also the need to allow regular folk plus the local businesses to go about their business without being bothered/intimidated.

    It just looks terrible to see, and it has to have an effect on people deciding whether they will shop or eat in certain spots. Plus it is terrible that so many people just slip through the net in society and end up in the position where they beg like that.


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    #9
    phill106
    Registered Users Posts: 6,810 ✭✭✭phill106


    kilburn wrote: »
    On another leisurely stroll from the Hunt museum to the O'Connell monument recently, i was struck yet again by the slum this city is turning into. Dont get me wrong I love Limerick and im proud to be from here but ffs will somebody please stand up and stop the rut.

    The hole place is boarded up. One of those units on Patrick St looks like it is going to fall out onto the road and kill someone. Crap everywhere, Why dont the street cleaners work evenings?

    The amount of beggars and junkies is unreal. We need to highlight this big time folks. Limerick has a very serious heroin problem, heroin addicts are the scum of the earth and need to be dealt with. They would cut your head off for a euro and our guards just seem to ignore them.

    I saw a squad car pull up outside Supermacs and the guards went in for their grub and ignored the junkies hassling people ten feet away. This would not happen anywhere else! Why do we put up with it?

    Not working some streets at all, full stop. Walking from the granary up to instore, where there is 4-5 car parking spaces outside those flats, the spaces perpendicular to the road? 3 weeks, the same bag with torn apart dirty nappies on the footpath. At least.


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    #10
    sun_moon_stars
    Registered Users Posts: 22 ✭sun_moon_stars


    i too feel intimidated walking in this city there was a man begging on the steps of the bank of ireland on upper o'connell st i was going to check my account i didnt even see him sitting on the steps and he gave me a fright that i walked passed he asked me for some change which i didnt have and then told me to f**k off. you must pass at least 3 on your way in to town and thats only on 1 side of the road its ridiculous it makes me so intimidated going in to the shops or for food no wonder people are going to the shopping centers town is gone so down hill and unsafe


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    #11
    kilburn
    Registered Users Posts: 3,912 ✭✭✭kilburn


    Im sick of it and im considering making a nuisance of myself to the city council and the guards. Just wondering about the consequences for myself, as we dont live in a democratic city anymore.


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    #12
    Story_Bud
    Closed Accounts Posts: 112 ✭✭Story_Bud


    Come on people, there still human how would ye feel if ye were homeless for christ sake or a junkie like there victims themselves but they cant help it like.


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    #13
    zing zong
    Registered Users Posts: 291 ✭✭zing zong


    kilburn wrote: »
    Im sick of it and im considering making a nuisance of myself to the city council and the guards. Just wondering about the consequences for myself, as we dont live in a democratic city anymore.

    cant imagine how there would be any consequences, as you would be perfectly right, and perfectly within your rights to do so

    If you want any support, i will gladly help out, as this has been playing on my mind a lot of late


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    #14
    Insect Overlord
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 30,858 Mod ✭✭✭✭Insect Overlord


    Story_Bud wrote: »
    Come on people, there still human how would ye feel if ye were homeless for christ sake or a junkie like there victims themselves but they cant help it like.

    They're not all addicts. There are plenty of chancers and criminals just sitting along the sides of our city's main street. They intimidate pedestrians, the every-day citizens of the area whenever they like. There comes a point where sympathy has to be thrown out the window.


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    #15
    padma
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,874 ✭✭✭padma


    The way I've always seen begging is, if you have it to give, give, If you don't have to give, dont. If you prefer not to give because you hold on to some sense of outrage that there is someone begging, then don't give.

    Either way it's a part of life. Live with it, just like the speeding cameras. Every city in the world has people begging, tourists aren't aliens who dropped out of the sky with a bum bag and a camera over their shoulder. They are people too, Anytime I was abroad and saw someone begging and I had it to give, I gave. And I'm sure there are many tourists who would happily give too.

    Blaming tourist numbers on begging doesn't cut it really. Dublin would be a prime example of mass numbers of people begging, yet Dublin has a steady stream of tourists.


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    #16
    CiaranMT
    Registered Users Posts: 4,092 ✭✭✭CiaranMT


    kilburn wrote: »

    The amount of beggars and junkies is unreal. We need to highlight this big time folks. Limerick has a very serious heroin problem, heroin addicts are the scum of the earth and need to be dealt with. They would cut your head off for a euro and our guards just seem to ignore them.

    The dealers are the scum.


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    #17
    munstergirl
    Registered Users Posts: 771 ✭✭✭munstergirl


    I'm sure i said during the summer the only reason gardai are on the streets is the sun is shining.

    I'm not gardai bashing think we need at least 50% extra gardai in Ireland. Watching bad fellas 2 gardai walking housing estate, how many times does that happen.

    Most junkies i see on the street do no harm just sit there and beg, but when i was on the dole i used to think they get the same amount of € as me, except mine is means tested.

    I think we need more drug treatment centres.


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    #18
    kilburn
    Registered Users Posts: 3,912 ✭✭✭kilburn


    I dont have a problem with proper poor people begging its the heroin junkies and scumbags that I have the problem with.

    And no junkies arent victims themselves, they know the consequences of taking heroin like everybody else. They choose that life. You should have more sympathy for the people who's lives have been shattered and destroyed by these foaming at the mouth dregs of society. Too many PC do gooders out there.


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    #19
    Gneez
    Registered Users Posts: 522 ✭✭✭Gneez


    Insect Overlord wrote: »
    They're not all addicts. There are plenty of chancers and criminals just sitting along the sides of our city's main street. They intimidate pedestrians, the every-day citizens of the area whenever they like. There comes a point where sympathy has to be thrown out the window.

    I seen a guy begging on O'Connell street 2 years ago he was sitting on a canvas tarp begging, he was dressed in grey clothes from a second hand shop, I was waiting for someone outside eddie rockets and watching him, after a while he got up and got into the driver side of an immaculate '05 avensis and drove off in it, I was pretty shocked.

    If ever I needed an excuse for not helping beggers I got it that day.


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    #20
    grenache
    Registered Users Posts: 6,477 ✭✭✭grenache


    I detest the scum that are the whinos/druggies/scumbags tapping on the street. But what really bugs me is the idiots who actually give them money. Are they so stupid to think that they will do anything other than spend their money on drink and drugs. Most of them are barred from city centre shops anyway for stealing. Saw Centra throw one of the them out at the weekend. How could you expect any tourist to come to the city when this kind of **** greets them on the main street.


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    #21
    Story_Bud
    Closed Accounts Posts: 112 ✭✭Story_Bud


    Why ye so harsh there all victims junkies and Alco's ... if they knew the consequences of there addiction beforehand they would never have turned into what they are now jesus people have a heart.


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    #22
    kilburn
    Registered Users Posts: 3,912 ✭✭✭kilburn


    So are you actually saying these scumbags dont know how addictive heroin is?
    That they dont realise what it will do to them?
    Crap !


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    #23
    padma
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,874 ✭✭✭padma


    kilburn wrote: »
    I dont have a problem with proper poor people begging its the heroin junkies and scumbags that I have the problem with.

    And no junkies arent victims themselves, they know the consequences of taking heroin like everybody else. They choose that life. You should have more sympathy for the people who's lives have been shattered and destroyed by these foaming at the mouth dregs of society. Too many PC do gooders out there.

    Would you feel the same towards that person if they were your son? The little 7 pounds that you helped bring in to the world? That you remember when they first spoke? The time they fell off their bike and ran to you looking for help? When they went to school in their new uniform?

    I don't think you would. You may say that you would disown them, if you did though all you are really doing is showing your bitterness towards them. Now more than ever is a time where people need to wake up out of their seige mentality in their middle class home illusion. We all live in this world, there is no such thing as class, only humans. Am I my brothers keeper?


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    #24
    kilburn
    Registered Users Posts: 3,912 ✭✭✭kilburn


    So you dont have a problem with junkies holding people up with needles?
    Spitting at people on the street who wont give them money?
    Abusing lone women and intimidating them?

    Lets all go and hug the poor mis understood junkies then and give them money because we are all humans !

    Are you really serious? Its that attitude that has them ruling the roost on the streets. Sorry but touchy feely doesnt work with crazed ferile animals that want a fix.


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    #25
    RonMexico
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,916 ✭✭✭RonMexico


    The do-gooder brigade should invite them into their own homes and give them all the molly-coddling that they need.

    We'd soon see them change their tune.


    Limerick is going the way of Detroit. 20 years down the road and this city will be one big ghetto. Regeneration will achieve nothing and don't be surprised if the IMF scrap it anyway.


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    #26
    padma
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,874 ✭✭✭padma


    kilburn wrote: »
    So you dont have a problem with junkies holding people up with needles?
    Spitting at people on the street who wont give them money?
    Abusing lone women and intimidating them?

    Lets all go and hug the poor mis understood junkies then and give them money because we are all humans !

    Are you really serious? Its that attitude that has them ruling the roost on the streets. Sorry but touchy feely doesnt work with crazed ferile animals that want a fix.


    It is the job of the law to deal with crime. It is the job of society to deal with social issues. My question is would you feel the same if this person was your son, or your daughter. I don't thinks so, simply because you know they are human, not crazed ferile animals.


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    #27
    RonMexico
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,916 ✭✭✭RonMexico


    padma wrote: »
    It is the job of the law to deal with crime. It is the job of society to deal with social issues. My question is would you feel the same if this person was your son, or your daughter. I don't thinks so, simply because you know they are human, not crazed ferile animals.

    Yeah so what do you propose we do to deal with this situation? These people are not our sons or daughters so spare the guilt trip tactic.


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    #28
    kilburn
    Registered Users Posts: 3,912 ✭✭✭kilburn


    To be totally honest if it was my child i would knock seven bells outta them, because no one else would. Junkies are a scourge on society


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    #29
    padma
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,874 ✭✭✭padma


    RonMexico wrote: »
    Yeah so what do you propose we do to deal with this situation? These people are not our sons or daughters so spare the guilt trip tactic.

    These PEOPLE (thank you for using that word) may not be YOUR sons or daughter, yet they are the sons and daughters of others. There is no guilt attached in loving your family members, or in Loving others. In fact having hatred towards certain people or sections of society simply reflects a lack of understanding towards others. End of story.

    If you were closely related and felt love towards these people you would have a better insight to their personal situation and would have a better grasp on how to live with this sickness close to you. However having a judgemental look at these people because of their actions and going to the lengths of sputtering abuse towards them like scum etc, simply shows your emotions towards them aren't very healthy or loving. Since the emotion is coming out the coherence of your judgement towards them is not properly adjusted towards a sane and adequate assesment of the individuals involved. This goes to all aspects of a having a negative attitude towards others.

    In so far as Dealing with the issue of Junkies, I think Munstergirl gave a great and positive suggestion. A suggestion which I feel came from a more sane and coherent opinion on the issue at hand.

    Drumming up hatred and the likes simply leads to enflaming negative reactions from people, which are not very coherent, and in fact I believe are counter-productive in the attitude that someone should have towards these people.

    This is a free world and certainly you have the right to think whatever way you like, yet it may be a good thing, and this is just a suggestion, to stop judging people and try to calm down and ask yourself why you feel hatred towards these people. Within that reflection you may come to understand a little bit more about yourself and why certain things make you angry etc. It's not good for your Heart or your blood pressure or indeed your personality to have such anger in your life. Theres no need of it.


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    #30
    L.T.P.
    Registered Users Posts: 405 ✭✭L.T.P.


    padma wrote: »
    These PEOPLE (thank you for using that word) may not be YOUR sons or daughter, yet they are the sons and daughters of others. There is no guilt attached in loving your family members, or in Loving others. In fact having hatred towards certain people or sections of society simply reflects a lack of understanding towards others. End of story.

    If you were closely related and felt love towards these people you would have a better insight to their personal situation and would have a better grasp on how to live with this sickness close to you. However having a judgemental look at these people because of their actions and going to the lengths of sputtering abuse towards them like scum etc, simply shows your emotions towards them aren't very healthy or loving. Since the emotion is coming out the coherence of your judgement towards them is not properly adjusted towards a sane and adequate assesment of the individuals involved. This goes to all aspects of a having a negative attitude towards others.

    In so far as Dealing with the issue of Junkies, I think Munstergirl gave a great and positive suggestion. A suggestion which I feel came from a more sane and coherent opinion on the issue at hand.

    Drumming up hatred and the likes simply leads to enflaming negative reactions from people, which are not very coherent, and in fact I believe are counter-productive in the attitude that someone should have towards these people.

    This is a free world and certainly you have the right to think whatever way you like, yet it may be a good thing, and this is just a suggestion, to stop judging people and try to calm down and ask yourself why you feel hatred towards these people. Within that reflection you may come to understand a little bit more about yourself and why certain things make you angry etc. It's not good for your Heart or your blood pressure or indeed your personality to have such anger in your life. Theres no need of it.

    Spare us the bull will you. Its the thieving junkies that are keeping the dealers in business and in a lot of cases committing serious crime including murder on their behalf. Every last one of them should be locked up and be made go through cold turkey until they're clean. They are a cancer on our society.


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    #31
    padma
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,874 ✭✭✭padma


    So L.T.P is on for cold turkey and locking them up. Any other suggestions anyone?


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