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Should tax payers bail out mortgage defaulters?

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    #62
    hobochris
    Registered Users Posts: 2,164 ✭✭✭hobochris


    Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah!


    **** NO!

    </Thread>


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    #63
    freewheeler
    Registered Users Posts: 299 ✭✭freewheeler


    Joe C wrote: »
    People should accept the consequences of the decisions they make regardless of whether they are good or bad.

    If you were silly enough to buy a house between 2003 - 2007 , tough luck as far I'm concerned.
    we have a winner for most ignorant post of the night!


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    #64
    hondasam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,418 ✭✭✭✭hondasam


    To many people got mortgages by over stating their income and I dont think we should help them, the knew the could not afford these houses but just wanted to be better than the next person. I feel sorry for some people but not all of them. Is it fair to help those who cannot pay more than the ones who are struggling but paying. At the end of the day if you take a chance you have to be willing to accept the consequences.


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    #65
    freewheeler
    Registered Users Posts: 299 ✭✭freewheeler


    gurramok wrote: »
    Exactly. What I see from the pro-mortgage defaulters brigade is snobbery.

    They bought an overpriced house on feck all means and it scares the living daylights out of them if they have to end up in a council house due to their own stupidity.
    Ah i see..so people who tried to buy their own homes rather than playing the system and looking for social housing are 'stupid' now? Amazing to me how smug some people can be..:rolleyes:


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    #66
    Mike 1972
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,018 ✭✭✭Mike 1972


    freewheeler wrote: »
    Ah i see..so people who tried to buy their own homes rather than playing the system

    As if these are the only two options :rolleyes:


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    #67
    Absurdum
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,445 ✭✭✭Absurdum


    if people can't pay their mortgage, they can't pay it, you can't get blood from a stone

    so eventually they are bankrupt, the bank takes the house, the state has to house them, the bank take a hit on the house, their losses are too large for them to manage, the state has to look after them too

    it doesn't matter whether or not they massively overpaid for their gaff or how smart some of you are for not buying in 2006 (and hindsight is always 20/20), the fact of the matter is that all of this is falling back on the citizens or Ireland (and soon to be further afield)

    so, again, leaving people hanging out to dry is gonna come back and bite you on the ass one way or the other


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    #68
    Mike 1972
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,018 ✭✭✭Mike 1972


    Absurdum wrote: »
    if people can't pay their mortgage, they can't pay it, you can't get blood from a stone

    so eventually they are bankrupt, the bank takes the house, the state has to house them,

    Not necessairly

    They may still have enough income be able to afford to rent from the private sector a (perhaps smaller) house.

    If not the state either which way will be paying for their housing (unless they emigrate) but the rent allowance on a small house is likely going to amount to far less than the mortgage arrears/ongoing payments on a larger house.


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    #69
    Common as...
    Closed Accounts Posts: 120 ✭✭Common as...


    The problem with people getting help with their mortgage payments is that the people doing the helping(taxpayer) will be suspicious. They'll wounder are those people claiming assistance doing everything in their power to make their repayments.


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    #70
    Mike 1972
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,018 ✭✭✭Mike 1972


    People in Ireland need to start seeing home ownership as the luxury it is and stop viewing it with a sense of entitlement.

    Mind you before that can happen the alternatives (a currently under regulated private sector and a stigmatised/ghettoised public housing "system") are seriously in need of reform.


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    #71
    Cheap Thrills!
    Registered Users Posts: 2,723 ✭✭✭Cheap Thrills!


    No way. We shouldn't.

    It's not the taxpayers job to bail out others. The Government/Regulators and Banks are to blame, not Joe Soap.

    I struggled all the way through the 'celtic tiger' -I never lived outside my means. I didn't buy huge new cars on credit or anything else ostentatious just to 'keep up with the Jones's'. I despise that sh!t and I'm certainly not going to enable those stupid people.

    Taxpayers have enough responsibility on their shoulders. People who were prudent shouldn't have to bail out people who were vain and stupid and insisted on borrowing outrageous amounts just because they felt they were entitled.

    Why should someone who sacrificed and grafted for their bit of security have to turn around and bail out some dozy overstretched yummy Mummy in a range rover or the likes of Alison O'Riordan.


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    #72
    Fighting Irish
    Registered Users Posts: 7,065 ✭✭✭Fighting Irish


    msg11 wrote: »
    I'm I missing something here ? Why are you quoting me if your saying the say thing. That's the mistake I am talking about ?



    Look , I'll give it simple. Yes, they should be bailed out. Jesus we give wasters on the dole that have been on it years money.

    Maybe I am just too soft, but there is something about a family keep ****ed out on the street that doesn't sit right with me..

    fook no


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    #73
    Clarehobo
    Registered Users Posts: 420 ✭✭Clarehobo


    Totally agree - we shouldn't bail people out.

    I had everyone telling me to buy and I refused. House prices were always going to come back down. At the moment they are still way too high to even consider buying: that's what we get for propping up the banks!!!

    Someone mentioned earlier that the bankruptcy laws need to be reformed. If you default in the USA you can walk away from the debt. In Ireland, it hangs over you until you pay it off. If we had similar laws over here, the banks would be more careful with their lending.

    There is no easy solution to this current issue.


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    #74
    Cheap Thrills!
    Registered Users Posts: 2,723 ✭✭✭Cheap Thrills!


    sollar wrote: »
    Yes we probably should help them out. At least they tried at life.

    No. No. No. This is wrong. You DONT get a prize for 'trying' in life.

    There are no trophies for 'turning up'. This is not pre-school. This is real life.

    Tried and succeeded
    and
    tried and failed

    are two totally different things.


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    #75
    Ronin247
    Registered Users Posts: 1,256 ✭✭✭Ronin247


    If people are out of work and have a baby and cant afford the mortgage they signed for then move somewhere cheaper,rent a 2 bed semi in Leitrim or Roscommon for E500 per month and hand the house back to the bank and realise that you lost on the biggest gamble of your life.

    Someone mentioned that owning a house is a luxury not a right,I couldnt agree more,I have worked long hours at crappy menial jobs for small pay and eventually I could afford my own home.I have debt which I knowingly signed up for and sometimes I cannot afford the very best of everything for my family but that is life.


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    #76
    My name is URL
    Registered Users Posts: 25,067 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    Cheap Thrills! wrote: »

    Why should someone who sacrificed and grafted for their bit of security have to turn around and bail out some dozy overstretched yummy Mummy in a range rover or the likes of Alison O'Riordan.

    Ehh, I doubt the likes of O'Riordan are genuinely struggling to meet repayments. The people who are struggling are those who have recently lost their jobs and so on. It's easy to say that those people could simply move to a cheaper place but where does the money to do that come from if they cannot sell the house they presently live in?

    There's a big difference between helping out honest and down to earth people who are doing their best to provide a life for their families, and the head-in-the-clouds Celtic Tiger cubs who lived way beyond their means during the boom.


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    #77
    Cheap Thrills!
    Registered Users Posts: 2,723 ✭✭✭Cheap Thrills!


    My name is URL wrote: »
    Ehh, I doubt the likes of O'Riordan are genuinely struggling to meet repayments. The people who are struggling are those who have recently lost their jobs and so on. It's easy to say that those people could simply move to a cheaper place but where does the money to do that come from if they cannot sell the house they presently live in?

    It might be easy to say but I didn't say it.

    I perfectly understand negative equity. My opinion on that is the problem is between the bank/Government and the mortgage holder. When the deal is made the buyer needed to beware and perform their own due diligence tests. I've no patience for this business of 'the bank is responsible because they offered it'

    People with mortgages are all over 18. Adults.
    My name is URL wrote: »
    There's a big difference between helping out honest and down to earth people who are doing their best to provide a life for their families, and the head-in-the-clouds Celtic Tiger cubs who lived way beyond their means during the boom.

    It's all the one to me IE; not my problem. Families and kids are a luxury, people with families needs to be even MORE careful not to sleepwalk into huge debt just because everyone else did. Can't stand that mentality.


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    #78
    johnmcdnl
    Registered Users Posts: 3,739 ✭✭✭johnmcdnl


    I'd rather have bailed out mortgage holders rather than seanie and his friends but right now the last thing we can afford is to bail out mortgage holders...

    sur all they have to do is give all their funds and assets to their brother for a couple of weeks - declare bankruptcy and then when the papers are done and dusted get their assets back from their brother..

    then buy their house back at a big discounted price - just like what seanie and friends seem to be able to do

    I wouldn't have bailed anyone out if I was in charge - if you **** up you should have to pay the price - that's your own fault - god love ya


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    #79
    Absurdum
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,445 ✭✭✭Absurdum


    Cheap Thrills! wrote: »
    It's all the one to me IE; not my problem.

    It will be soon.


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    #80
    bobblepuzzle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,256 ✭✭✭bobblepuzzle


    meh, I made a poll...


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    #81
    Ronin247
    Registered Users Posts: 1,256 ✭✭✭Ronin247


    My name is URL wrote: »
    ............................. It's easy to say that those people could simply move to a cheaper place but where does the money to do that come from if they cannot sell the house they presently live in?
    Cheap Thrills! wrote: »
    It might be easy to say but I didn't say it.


    I did say it.

    For example a married couple with 2 kids.
    If you live in/"own" a 4 bed detatched in a good area that you paid E400,000 for and now is only worth E200,000 then you sell it for that.You now owe the bank E200,000.You rent a 2/3 bedroom in a crappy area for E700/month.

    Payments before.Mortgage interest only 5% 30 years on E400000 =E2120
    Life insurance for mortgage,property insurance, upkeep etc =E 400
    Total to own a house =E2520

    Payments after. Mortgage interest only 5% 30 years on E200000 =E1060
    Rent =E 700
    Total to rent =E1760

    You are now paying E760 less per month.

    I realise it is a very simplified scenario and MIRAS and rental tax relief and other details are ignored, but you do not have a God given right to live in a good house in a good area and travel 20 minutes to work in your 10 D **** registered car.
    If you expect me to fund that lifestyle for others while I cannot afford it for myself then you need to wake up.


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