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Converting van to campervan

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  • 09-08-2014 11:16pm
    #1
    Fred Swanson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,730 ✭✭✭✭


    This post has been deleted.


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    #2
    rosco p coltrane
    Registered Users Posts: 75 ✭✭rosco p coltrane


    Almost every question you need answered is here.

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056286278

    Delve deep into this forum, and most of your questions will be answered.

    Happy reading.


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    #3
    Irishgoatman
    Registered Users Posts: 1,741 ✭✭✭Irishgoatman


    rosco is right but what he hasn't said is allow PLENTY of reading time as there are a lot of other threads with good advice.


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    #4
    Fred Swanson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,730 ✭✭✭✭Fred Swanson


    This post has been deleted.


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    #5
    Moomat
    Registered Users Posts: 660 ✭✭✭Moomat


    Fred Swanson wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    Most up to date info is here: http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/vrt/vehicle-conversions.html#section7

    In a nutshell- Revenue may refuse to classify it as a camper if a person of average height can not stand up in it.


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    #6
    moodrater
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,638 ✭✭✭moodrater


    Moomat wrote: »
    Most up to date info is here: http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/vrt/vehicle-conversions.html#section7

    In a nutshell- Revenue may refuse to classify it as a camper if a person of average height can not stand up in it.

    They can't possibly enforce that the definition under law is the european definition which has no such vague shlte as 'a person of average height'! Still I'm 50/50 on supporting it as if people continue to get day vans registered for camper tax the camper tax is sure to become a thing of the past.


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    #7
    Moomat
    Registered Users Posts: 660 ✭✭✭Moomat


    moodrater wrote: »
    They can't possibly enforce that the definition under law is the european definition which has no such vague shlte as 'a person of average height'! Still I'm 50/50 on supporting it as if people continue to get day vans registered for camper tax the camper tax is sure to become a thing of the past.

    I know, sure who is the average person, is it the Cambodian I know down the road? According to him, the average height for Cambodians is 1.5m! :)

    I'd imagine if they refused your conversion on height rules then you could appeal the decision all the way to Europe but how long would that take.
    After all that it may be unable to get insurance on most of the campervan schemes.


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    #8
    mikehn
    Registered Users Posts: 616 ✭✭✭mikehn


    Moomat wrote: »
    Most up to date info is here: http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/vrt/vehicle-conversions.html#section7

    In a nutshell- Revenue may refuse to classify it as a camper if a person of average height can not stand up in it.
    I did a conversion this year. The head height requirement has been waived by Revenue. The head height will come into play when you TRY to insure it though.
    When the conversion is completed it has to be certified by a SQI (suitably qualified individual) you local tax office will let you know who in your area can carry out the inspection. There is change of use documentation to be filled out and the vehicle has to be DOE'd as well. Im in Kerry but ended up getting it done in Clare vehicle testing centre outside Ennis. They are well used to this and are very good to deal with. Of course the next issue will be the additional VRT. I had no problem as I was taxing the vehicle privately before the conversion so Revenue had no further interest in me.


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    #9
    moodrater
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,638 ✭✭✭moodrater


    Moomat wrote: »
    you could appeal the decision all the way to Europe but how long would that take

    Its Ireland if you go through legal channels probably cost more than a new van but if you pop down to your local TD it will probably be sorted out for the cost of a promised vote :D


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    #10
    moodrater
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,638 ✭✭✭moodrater


    mikehn wrote: »
    The head height will come into play when you TRY to insure it though.

    Who did you get insurance with in the end, I have a van in process for my parents.


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    #11
    Moomat
    Registered Users Posts: 660 ✭✭✭Moomat


    mikehn wrote: »
    I did a conversion this year. The head height requirement has been waived by Revenue. The head height will come into play when you TRY to insure it though.
    When the conversion is completed it has to be certified by a SQI (suitably qualified individual) you local tax office will let you know who in your area can carry out the inspection. There is change of use documentation to be filled out and the vehicle has to be DOE'd as well. Im in Kerry but ended up getting it done in Clare vehicle testing centre outside Ennis. They are well used to this and are very good to deal with. Of course the next issue will be the additional VRT. I had no problem as I was taxing the vehicle privately before the conversion so Revenue had no further interest in me.

    When did you have your conversion done?
    The link I supplied is from June this year and the guy in Revenue said the rules had just changed. He cited this new interpetation of the Eu rules when he was refusing my conversion. This was after a Sqi had signed it off as a camper.


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    #12
    Moomat
    Registered Users Posts: 660 ✭✭✭Moomat


    moodrater wrote: »
    Who did you get insurance with in the end, I have a van in process for my parents.

    The Motorcaravan Club will insure some vehicles with less than 1.8m but their own SQI will check it out 1st.


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    #13
    moodrater
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,638 ✭✭✭moodrater


    Moomat wrote: »
    When did you have your conversion done?
    The link I supplied is from June this year and the guy in Revenue said the rules had just changed. He cited this new interpetation of the Eu rules when he was refusing my conversion. This was after a Sqi had signed it off as a camper.

    Bummer, did you have a proper conversion full kitchen unit, tanks, proper bed etc ?

    Thought you had a high roof transit first and then a high roof hiace?


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    #14
    Moomat
    Registered Users Posts: 660 ✭✭✭Moomat


    moodrater wrote: »
    Bummer, did you have a proper conversion full kitchen unit, tanks, proper bed etc ?

    Thought you had a high roof transit first and then a high roof hiace?

    You're right, we had a SWB high roof transit but it only had lapbelts in the back and with a baby on the way I wanted good 3 point seat belts. Was looking for something that would do us for 3-4 days around Ireland, nothing more so didn't need a big van. I wanted something that could do wildcamping well, particularly off road stuff in Europe.

    It had a double rock and roll style bed, 2 ring cooker, sink with running water, table, Khyam Motordome awning + Rail etc... Everything that was required to meet the EU standards and more.

    http://www.adverts.ie/water-sports/isuzu-trooper-camper/5846415

    In the end we had to sell it and go back to a transit style as we threw enough money and time at it. I think it could of been appealed and eventually passed but that we didn't have the time.
    I'll give it a go again in the future when time and money are more plentiful!


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    #15
    stevire
    Registered Users Posts: 1,512 ✭✭✭stevire


    For the OP, I don't think you'll have a problem reclassifying a T4, here's my experience:

    Conversion:
    I taxed the vehicle privately for a few months during conversion - VRT was not applicable when converting to a camper. Converted a SWB Low Roof VW T4 with very little issue. Got Cawleys in Sligo to inspect, internal height rule was waived at this point and not an issue in reclassifying. Sent in pics to CVO in Rosslare along with forms, my conversion includes sink, 2 gas hob and RnR bed. This was all early 2012 (internal height req was removed in Jan 2012)

    Insurance:
    My vehicle was an ex-ambulance so that ruled out Stuarts Insurance. Internal height requirement was cited by Dolmen, I took it to the underwriters and got the standard insurance rate within a couple of days. Go via Twitter, got their attention and sorted out insurance within a couple of days.

    Moomat wrote: »
    It had a double rock and roll style bed, 2 ring cooker, sink with running water, table, Khyam Motordome awning + Rail etc... Everything that was required to meet the EU standards and more.

    @Moomat, nice job on the trooper, well thought out. If I was to offer my opinion it's borderline meeting the minimum requirements of EU law, and I would consider it a Day Van - which is not classified as a Motor Home. Yes the gas and conversion job is up to a standard (SQI) but exterior washing facilities and no standing room has me swayed towards a day van. Revenue have refer to this on their site:
    http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/vrt/faqs-vrt.html#question70
    Conversions

    Vehicles intended to be converted to a Motor Caravan must fulfill the requirement to provide mobile living accommodation, and the rear compartment must be modified sufficiently to contain all the fittings and fixtures reasonably expected of a Motor Caravan.

    Modifications that do not significantly alter the interior of the rear compartment to include fittings and fixtures (for example, removal of seats to accommodate a table), or which modify only the boot storage area to provide storage fittings or exterior access to cooking facilities, are not regarded as Motor Caravans.

    These modified vehicles can be referred to as a Day Van, and will generally only contain the bare essentials required for a day out, with perhaps exterior cooking facilities. In this regard, Day Vans will not be classified as Motor Caravans for VRT purposes. Revenue will not accept a candidate in which the preparation, cooking, storage or other facilities are reasonably accessible only from outside the vehicle.

    Where a Passenger Vehicle (M1) is converted, retaining its passenger carrying capacity, but does not fulfill the criteria of a Motor Caravan, it will retain its original EU Classification.

    Where a Commercial Vehicle (N1, N2 or N3) is converted, increasing its passenger carrying capacity, but does not fulfill the criteria of a Motor Caravan, it may be classed as a Passenger Vehicle (M1). This will mean an increased VRT liability based on the CO2 emissions of the vehicle.


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    #16
    moodrater
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,638 ✭✭✭moodrater


    Moomat wrote: »
    http://www.adverts.ie/water-sports/isuzu-trooper-camper/5846415

    I think you could have argued the toss but I can understand why they didn't want to vrt that ... every builder, farmer, traveller, tradesman in the country would have one in the back if they thought they could have cheap tax. I imagine they would have put up a lot of resitance in the red tape department.


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    #17
    airhead_eire
    Closed Accounts Posts: 133 ✭✭airhead_eire


    moodrater wrote: »
    They can't possibly enforce that the definition under law is the european definition which has no such vague shlte as 'a person of average height'! Still I'm 50/50 on supporting it as if people continue to get day vans registered for camper tax the camper tax is sure to become a thing of the past.

    If day vans are getting registered as camper vans then that's the Revenue's fault as they are the ones that are signing them off. I agree with the camper tax issue - it would be a pain if that went.


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    #18
    Happy.camper
    Registered Users Posts: 11 ✭Happy.camper


    Hi,

    Can anyone put up a few photos of how there gas cooker or 2 ring cooker was installed please.


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    #19
    Shoog
    Registered Users Posts: 4,373 ✭✭✭Shoog


    Moomat wrote: »
    Most up to date info is here: http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/vrt/vehicle-conversions.html#section7

    In a nutshell- Revenue may refuse to classify it as a camper if a person of average height can not stand up in it.
    This is no longer true, though it is stated in their website.
    The reality is they simply transposed the EU regs into Irish law and there is no mention of a head height in the regs. They cannot legally refuse a camper which doesn't have standing height.
    I have actually questioned the revenue on this matter and they say they no longer impose the 1.8m head height rule that existed in Irish law before 2011. They passed my low roof T4 conversion without a question.

    However it is extremely difficult to get insurance on a conversion which doesn't have 1.8m of head height.

    Shoog


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    #20
    Shoog
    Registered Users Posts: 4,373 ✭✭✭Shoog


    Happy.camper wrote: »
    Hi,

    Can anyone put up a few photos of how there gas cooker or 2 ring cooker was installed please.
    You have to have your gas installation certified by a gas fitter.
    You should build your gas setup to whatever standard your gas fitter requires - otherwise you can go to a lot of time, money and trouble only to be told they wont certify your setup.

    Shoog


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