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Hi all,
Vanilla are planning an update to the site on April 24th (next Wednesday). It is a major PHP8 update which is expected to boost performance across the site. The site will be down from 7pm and it is expected to take about an hour to complete. We appreciate your patience during the update.
Thanks all.

New Topics/Category Organisation Update 20:45 - Post 100

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    #122
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,073 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    httpete wrote: »
    Terrible change from a usability perspective.
    I'd agree, however and to be fair it is a work in progress and not the end point in the Boards UI. Though _Kaiser_ makes a valid point, going piecemeal to then roll out something different seems a tad beta testing like. :confused: There has to be a reason for it though.
    Surely your team of web devs and designers understand that usability is the most important thing on a website.
    Web Devs and designers do not always good UI designers make. Oft the opposite. Compare MS OS' to Apple's OS' down the years. Outside of the BS fanboism on both sides the latter's GUI was provably easier to navigate well into the mid noughties. Why? Because MS led with engineers and programmers and some of the very brightest and best in the world too, Apple led with hippies and designers, often drawn from beyond the geek world. The former type of thinking brings out an MP3 player with eleventy million options and buttons out the wazzoo. The latter brings out an MP3 player with feck all options and as few buttons as poss. I remember at the time the Nerdsphere decrying the daftness of the fruit company's simplicity. Most people Don't Give a Fcuk(™) They just want to press play/stop/rewind/fast forward. Which approach led to the word "iPod" being the generic term for such a player?
    The easy access navigation menu was one of the best and most unique features about boards.ie....It put it ahead of every other vbulletin site out there in terms usability and speed of navigation.
    +1000 it really did/does. I'm on a few VB forums out there, all of them with far fewer topics than Boards and yet Boards was by a goodly margin the easiest to navigate around in. None of the "back to main - scroll through endless forums - click- read - back to main - endless scrolling part Deux" bullshíte. Don't get me started on Reddit. :)


    TL;DR? If you implement any extra steps in a UI, you better make sure that there's an advantageous payoff worth that extra step. If there isn't, it's always a step backward.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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    #123
    Peregrine
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭Peregrine


    Dav wrote: »
    Topics should be in the middle as we want the most eyeballs on it, I don't know how it's moved with Adverts, but that's not the intention at all.

    [edit] I'm sure some folks can confirm that's the way it was earlier and if you see my screen shots on the OP of this thread, you'll see that was the intention from the off.

    I'm afraid I don't have enough tech knowledge to try and give you an explanation yet folks, I'm waiting on an update from the dev team.

    When Adverts was on the right, half of the Adverts menu opened out of the page and beyond the scrollbar. A quickfix for that, maybe?


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    #124
    Roanmore
    Registered Users Posts: 1,801 ✭✭✭Roanmore


    Is the purpose of the changes to turn people off using Boards?


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    #125
    Taltos
    Registered Users Posts: 20,830 ✭✭✭✭Taltos


    I disagree with much of the negative responses.
    Maybe it's just where I work I am getting used to constant change - still bugs the crap out of me, but I can see why this was done and so far for the forums I use

    a) they are still in My Forums list.
    b) for the ones I sometimes go to that I don't follow, OK might take a few clicks to find but I have already "found" Films which I can't remember when I last snuck through there.

    Also curious to see Comics just above Tattooing - another forum I might have a dip into now.

    Looking forward to getting the kinks worked out - but good job guys, know releasing a change like this is stressful and thankless - hence cheers. Nice job.


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    #126
    My name is URL
    Registered Users Posts: 25,059 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    Wibbs wrote: »

    +1000 it really did/does. I'm on a few VB forums out there, all of them with far fewer topics than Boards and yet Boards was by a goodly margin the easiest to navigate around in. None of the "back to main - scroll through endless forums - click- read - back to main - endless scrolling part Deux" bullshíte. Don't get me started on Reddit. :)

    Honestly, for the size of Reddit; it is incredibly easy to navigate and learn the lay of. Once you know how subreddit URLs are formatted there's nothing to it.. you don't even have to use a GUI to get to where you want to go.


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    #127
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,365 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Saying "use My Forums" is all well and good, but this change is regressive from a new user point of view. It makes it more difficult rather than less difficult to find forums.


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    #128
    whatismyname
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,707 ✭✭✭whatismyname


    Taltos wrote: »
    but I can see why this was done

    Can you shed any light on it for others, since there doesn't seem any obvious reason for many as to what the purpose of the change is?
    Taltos wrote: »
    I disagree with much of the negative responses.

    I think a good thing to maybe remember is that you're disagreeing based on how you use the site.

    People will use it in all kinds of different ways, and many are not happy based on how they use the site, and how much more difficult and less user friendly it makes it for them.

    Both perspectives valid. You disagree, cos based on how you use the site the changes work well for you, but it doesn't make all the feedback people have provided based on their usage wrong. It still remains the case that for many it really doesn't work well, based on general usability for them.


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    #129
    Taltos
    Registered Users Posts: 20,830 ✭✭✭✭Taltos


    awec wrote: »
    Saying "use My Forums" is all well and good, but this change is regressive from a new user point of view. It makes it more difficult rather than less difficult to find forums.

    I know you and others think so.
    Personally I don't and that's OK too.

    I like the Topics link - yes maybe more attention could be drawn to it somehow but for me I like the logical flow of the categories there and as above it has already helped me refind fora I had either not seen before or had forgotten about.


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    #130
    titan18
    Registered Users Posts: 11,932 ✭✭✭✭titan18


    Don't understand why forums needed to be changed around. Straight off trying to find some forums has become more difficult. Also, not sure if was mentioned but on some of the larger catergories with multiple subforum e.g Television, the content is too far down due to the amount of subforums. It's really annoying, probably worse on mobile, but even as a desktop user, not seeing what I want straight off is eurghh. Was better when Television was a subforum of Television.


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    #131
    Massimo Cassagrande
    Closed Accounts Posts: 626 ✭✭✭Massimo Cassagrande


    Adverts is front and center. I'd say that's the idea and the aim. It's pretty much all about Adverts....


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    #132
    whatismyname
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,707 ✭✭✭whatismyname


    awec wrote: »
    Saying "use My Forums" is all well and good, but this change is regressive from a new user point of view. It makes it more difficult rather than less difficult to find forums.

    Yep, making people log-in when they may not have a need otherwise to. Viewing 'my forums' all lumped in together, rather than just easily accecssing and popping through forums... and there's forums that I might sometimes have a glance through, but doesn't mean I'd want them on a 'my forums' section...

    And even if 'my forums' section was what I needed and worked well for my needs, it still makes it trickier to just browse and find what you want.

    Meh. It is what it is, I guess.


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    #133
    The_Morrigan
    Moderators Posts: 9,368 ✭✭✭The_Morrigan


    Topics is back in the middle again now for me.

    I have Talk to....; Boards.ie; Topics; Regional;Adverts.ie


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    #134
    catallus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭catallus


    Massimo Cassagrande wrote: »
    Adverts is front and center. I'd say that's the idea and the aim. It's pretty much all about Adverts....

    But now it's over at the right hand side?!

    It's the magical mystery site :)


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    #135
    Peregrine
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭Peregrine


    The_Morrigan wrote: »
    Topics is back in the middle again now for me.

    I have Talk to....; Boards.ie; Topics; Regional;Adverts.ie

    Yeah, it's back to that for me too.


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    #136
    whatismyname
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,707 ✭✭✭whatismyname


    Was the 'my forums' button always at the top right of whatever page you're on?

    Not sure if that is new, or if it was always there and I hadn't noticed it (more likely). Either way, that definitely makes things somewhat easier than keep needing to go back to the homepage to get to 'my forums' which I had thought was the case until now.


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    #137
    catallus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭catallus


    Goddamit, years of muscle-memory training gone out the window, just like that!


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    #138
    Lemming
    Registered Users Posts: 14,148 ✭✭✭✭Lemming


    This "oh just follow the forum and it'll appear in your 'My forums' list" malarky is condescending, and the more I read it the more it's really getting on my nerves. I follow some forums, but that's all besides the great big captain-obvious point; I should not have to.

    Words to live by as a software developer: technology exists to serve people, people do not exist to serve technology.


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    #139
    Boards.ie: Chris
    Closed Accounts Posts: 80 ✭✭Boards.ie: Chris


    Right, I've spent 4 hours trying to get this working. This is why I build servers, and not websites. Anyway, the definitive is

    Talk To.. || Boards.ie || Topics || Regional || Adverts.ie

    Topics has been split into 2 columns. Regional and Adverts are now aligned to fit the page. Opening one submenu within a column and then opening another within the same column will now close the previous column. These were all supposed to be in the initial push but overly complex compilation process meant they weren't.


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    #140
    cherryghost
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 17,132 Mod ✭✭✭✭cherryghost


    I didn't sign up for this. There was a modtalk about restructuring but I certainly didn't agree to THIS kind of a layout. Its terrible! Subfora dug even deeper and harder to find on the site :(


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    #141
    Tokyo
    Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,655 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tokyo


    Boards.ie: Chris wrote: »
    Right, I've spent 4 hours trying to get this working. This is why I build servers, and not websites. Anyway, the definitive is

    Talk To.. || Boards.ie || Topics || Regional || Adverts.ie

    Sorry Chris - 'Topics' has moved to the rightmost side of the page for me again.


    Though to be honest, at 10pm, I'd be heading for a well deserved pint if I were you guys after the day put in. Forum will still be here tomorrow.


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    #142
    Boards.ie: Chris
    Closed Accounts Posts: 80 ✭✭Boards.ie: Chris


    mike_ie wrote: »
    Sorry Chris - 'Topics' has moved to the rightmost side of the page for me again.


    Though to be honest, at 10pm, I'd be heading for a well deserved pint if I were you guys after the day put in. Forum will still be here tomorrow.

    Sorry, I should have said on this, if behaviour is not as described as above, please log out and log back in again. We store the menu layout in local store on log in and log out, so this should rearrange the giblets for you.


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    #143
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,073 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Taltos wrote: »
    I can see why this was done
    Why? No, more to the point why this way? As it stands for a completely new user - and Boards needs those now more than ever - what you see is Talk to(pays the bills), Boards.ie(which is arguably a waste of screen space), Adverts(pays the bills), regional(which to a newbie would seem odd) and "topics"(everything else, the vast majority of user footfall and content generation. Y'know the part that made the site in the first place) out on it's own. Now it looks like Boards is Adverts, Talk to, Board's internal stuff, regional and a vague topics thing tagged onto the end/middle/end/middle.
    a) they are still in My Forums list.
    That's how you operate, don't make the rookie mistake of thinking this is how others will.
    b) for the ones I sometimes go to that I don't follow, OK might take a few clicks to find but I have already "found" Films which I can't remember when I last snuck through there.
    That's a non argument really. "might take a few clicks to find" means it fails on the first hurdle and you already "live" around here. The most popular forum on Boards is now in a new category, requires an extra navigational click to find. And you see this as progress? *scratches head*
    Looking forward to getting the kinks worked out - but good job guys, know releasing a change like this is stressful and thankless - hence cheers. Nice job.
    You're thinking more about the guys in the office(which is well understandable BTW. I do), but you're thinking far less of the result. Middle management speak basically. Again all too common and why bad product can go through endless beige meetings and powerpoint guff where everybody agrees and crap still ends up on the market.

    The previous was cluttered and needed tidying, yes. However true simplicity and good UI is where one applies that simplicity. Now we have four categories where once there were many more. Yay! we made it simpler. Great, but from a new user perspective what is happening below that simplicity is more complex, harder to navigate and confusing in its intent.

    Oh and this really needed to be worked out long before it went live as NuBoards 1.0, never mind that it's likely to change again. It won't worry completely new users when 1.1 comes along, but it will throw existing users throughout the process.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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    #144
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users Posts: 28,664 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    OK the Topics section is jumping from the middle to the far right here but I can see two columns now. [EDIT: logged out/in and Topics is now in the centre of the top menu]

    But seriously, burying a site of this size into what's now 2 rows is ridiculous! It makes the site look far smaller than it is, harder for new people and existing users to navigate AND it's only temporary anyway????

    Seriously guys.. I think we all appreciate the effort that ye have put into this, but it wasn't thought out properly and has gone down like a lead balloon. Change it back until you're ready to change the lot!


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    #145
    Ludo
    Registered Users Posts: 5,015 ✭✭✭Ludo


    titan18 wrote: »
    Don't understand why forums needed to be changed around. Straight off trying to find some forums has become more difficult. Also, not sure if was mentioned but on some of the larger catergories with multiple subforum e.g Television, the content is too far down due to the amount of subforums. It's really annoying, probably worse on mobile, but even as a desktop user, not seeing what I want straight off is eurghh. Was better when Television was a subforum of Television.

    ^^THIS^^

    TV forum is woeful now. Probably easy to fix but from a usability point of view this forum looks terrible at the moment.

    Wow...just noticed the top level menu. :eek:


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    #146
    Charlie19
    Registered Users Posts: 11,721 ✭✭✭✭Charlie19


    Why change a system that worked very well? Now I cant find the cross dressing Leprechaun thread.


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    #147
    coffee_cake
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Politics Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 81,310 CMod ✭✭✭✭coffee_cake


    I'm pretty sure the idea was new users didn't get the concept of having a place for their discussions and having it under topics makes it more user friendly
    and for the rest of us we know where to find stuff already


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    #148
    whatismyname
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,707 ✭✭✭whatismyname


    bluewolf wrote: »
    I'm pretty sure the idea was new users didn't get the concept of having a place for their discussions and having it under topics makes it more user friendly
    and for the rest of us we know where to find stuff already

    May have been the idea / intention, yes. Except it's not necessarily in the same place, and is harder to find, and generally makes things less accessible.


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    #149
    Harry Palmr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40,061 ✭✭✭✭Harry Palmr


    Can I suggest Topics becomes Discussion Topics.

    When I see Topics I think of chocolate bars.


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    #150
    Zymurgist
    Registered Users Posts: 516 ✭✭✭Zymurgist


    Ludo wrote: »
    TV forum is woeful now. Probably easy to fix but from a usability point of view this forum looks terrible at the moment.

    Agree with this, an entire page of sub-forum links before you see any threads.

    Perhaps leave general television as a sub forum like it was but move it to the top of the page above the link to documentaries


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    #151
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users Posts: 28,664 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    bluewolf wrote: »
    I'm pretty sure the idea was new users didn't get the concept of having a place for their discussions and having it under topics makes it more user friendly
    and for the rest of us we know where to find stuff already

    But the reality is that the change has made it less user friendly for all users!

    Plus with all the changes I think most people will be lost for a while unless they had the foresight to create a My Forums list previously.

    And it's pointless hassle at the end of the day as it'll all be changed again in a few weeks anyway


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